OK, I'm crushed.

[WilliamPitt]

Read this whole thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/26/AR2006112601118.html

[soleft]

1. couldn't access link, might be my server, but check

[WilliamPitt]

2. Worked fine for me

[soleft]

3. can you give me title of article so I can go the post website

Thanks

[kegler14]

4. Separate Truths

[soleft]

6. Thanks!

[mainegreen]

5. I wonder how many families will go through this over the next 50 years due to Iraq?

To many, thats for sure.

[savemefromdumbya]

15. Iraqis will probably never have access to DNA analysis

[conscious evolution]

7. So sad for them

The sisters reaction makes me wonder what their political leanings are.

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. The true villians here are the right wing crazies who tried to convince Americans

that the Vietnamese were keeping prisoners after the war.

Everyone should read H. Bruce Franklin's wonderful study M.I.A., or Mythmaking in America. It details the emergence and political duplicity behind the whole MIA/POW issue on Vietnam. This was, from the start, a conservative political manuever foisted on Americans for domestic political reasons (to wit, the POW wives were about to go anti-war on Nixon). It is a fascinating history, with the ridiculous H. Ross Perot as one of the major players (that's why he had a former Vietnam POW as his Vice Presidential pick, though Stockdale was manifestly a bumbling fool). The MIA/POW issue was also one of the major conservative rhetorical gambits in the 1980's recuperation of the Vietnam war memory, hence all the laughable movies and television shows (Rambo, Chuck Norris, even Magnum PI) that dealt with it. Here's the truth of the matter: at no time before the initiation of the political MIA/POW campaign (1969-1970) were these categories connected in military accounting. MIA, before that, usually just meant KIA, and was assumed to mean that. After the conflation, any lack of a body was assumed to be POW - a ridiculous notion. Because of the conflation of these categories, we require the Vietnamese to account for pilots that went down in the Gulf of Tonkin, even if US troops had a visual of the crash, and it is obvious that the pilot is dead. Never before in the history of warfare has such a standard been enforced.

There were NO prisoners kept by the Vietnamese after the conclusion of hostilities. There has never been any credible evidence to that effect, either. Needless to say, a pack of confidence men swooped in on the vulnerable families, like Charles Scharf's sister, promising rescue of their very obviously dead relatives. These shysters and criminals bilked the "MIA" families for millions, often setting up absurdist "camps" in Thailand from which to spring assaults on the putative Vietnamese prison camps where the Vietnamese were supposedly still holding American prisoners (for what reason that would do this is never made clear). These con-men even forged documents claiming that certain prisoners were transferred to the Soviet Union (because Russian intelligence really needed the military genius of frontline grunts 10 or 15 years after they've been captured from a rifle company, supposedly!). That such con games are atrocious - lower than low - is obvious enough. That they were implicitly aided and abetted by the conservative forces in the US government and by the entire culture industry is shocking beyond measure. There are no left-behind POWs, and there never have been. The accounting requirements put on the Vietnamese are outrageous, and the Vietnamese truly show their grace by continuing to comply with them. There are 300,000 Vietnamese MIAs, and the US government has never lifted a fucking finger to account for one of them. That tells you all you need to know about US exceptionalism, and imperial prerogative.

[Demeter]

14. Simply Amazing

That such duplicity would have started so early in the GOP/Fundie/Con artist game, and only now is it getting debunked.

Why did it take so long for this to see the light of day? Talk about sub rosa subversion of the public forum! This is inciting paranoia, this is! NO wonder the average voter is so fucked up. No wonder Ronnie is the wonder of the world.

[conscious evolution]

16. wow!

This reply gets bookmarked.I never looked at the issue this way.

Thanks for the book title and the new perspective on the matter.

It's also another example of the depths war pigs will go to to get their agenda across.

[WilliamPitt]

18. But what about Chuck Norris?

He found one. So did Rambo. I saw it on TV. It must be true.

;)

[Javaman]

28. Not defending Stockdale, but...

The man was far from a bumbling fool. He lost his hearing while a prisoner of war and his opponent made hay out of his disability in what has become the now famous vice presidential debate.

Granted he certainly was not office worthy, but he certainly is not a bumbling fool.

My two cents.

[alcibiades_mystery]

29. OK, I'll retract that

Not a bumbling fool. I went overboard with that characterization, and should have stated it more kindly as you did: not worthy of the office.

My apologies, and thanks for the correction. This topic just makes me so steamed.

[Javaman]

31. No sweats. :)

peace always.

[hedgehog]

33. It's odd how the facts of one war became the myth of another.

From time to time a story emerges in the background about US POWs transferred to or kept by the Soviets after WWII. There were also eastern block citizens and soldiers sent to the Soviet Union after the war against their will. Some Korean POWs, (maybe half a dozen?) more or less chose to stay behind after that war. I say more or less because they may have been mislead about what would happen to them upon their return to the US. I don't even want to get into a discussion about brain washing. The people involved were possibly still alive in 1972, but they never got any publicity or help. There was a massive industry that grew up around the missing POWs from Vietnam even though they never existed.

[stellanoir]

9. woh intense but

Does anyone else find this line somwhat curious. . ."She sells jewelry in the Pentagon. . ." ?

What sort of jewelry would the Pentagon sell. . .daisy cutter pendants, bunker buster bracelets, shock and awe watches, enduring freedom rings. . .?

Too bizarre.

[WilliamPitt]

12. Ever been there?

It has a mall.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=pentagon+shops

[stellanoir]

20. No but I had a great uncle who worked there

and I really was curious so I googled it and got a list of retailers at the Pentagon City Mall.

Now that I think of it though, Army Bases on foreign soil are really self contained in terms of goods and services so why wouldn't the Pentagon be as well? I just never thought about it before.

I guess that's why they HAVE to have a golf course next to Camp Humphreys in South Korea and displace all those villagers from their homes and livelihoods as Cindy reported recently.

Unbelievable but true I'm sure. Yikes.

on edit-here's the link about that

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2803792

[WilliamPitt]

21. The Pentagon is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge

and has lots of people working long hours. It makes sense, but yeah, it is kinda weird to think about.

Say, Bob, let's take a break from planning this invasion of Terhan and go get a bear claw. I think I'll pick up a necklace for my wife while we're there.

:)

[kiahzero]

25. Pentagon City is down the street a ways

There is a jewelry store in the actual Pentagon, however; they probably make a mint off of almost-forgotten anniversaries.

[stepnw1f]

17. LOL....They Have a Mall

I'm still laughing, stell!

[zalinda]

19. She probably has a business like Avon

but for jewelry. I'm sure that she made so many visits to the Pentagon all these years that starting a business was a natural.

zalinda

[BlackVelvet04]

10. I'm not sure why you are crushed.

It sounds like the sister is in serious denial, but knowing how I feel about my big brother I can kind of understand. It would be nice if a government official would sit down with her and answer all of her questions. But she may never be able to let go, regardless.

The whole MIA/POW issue stemming from Vietnam has been a nightmare for many families. I wonder how many live with the horror of not knowing and will we go through the same thing when the debacle of Iraq is over?

[WilliamPitt]

11. Hm

One woman who loved her husband so much that she never remarried and is alone to this day.

Another loved her brother so much that she has bent her life around the belief that he is still alive, all these years later.

All thanks to that war.

I can't imagine why this would be sad.

[BlackVelvet04]

13. No, I agree that it's incredibly sad and was just

getting ready to edit my post to comment about the wife. How amazing and wonderful to love someone that deeply.

But, I'm can't say I personally feel crushed.

[Generic Other]

22. It's very sad Will but maybe only to those whose lives that war touched

Americans have selective memory, don't they? Support the troops and all that rot is just all talk. Proof is in how we treat the vets and their families after the gunfire has ceased.

No one gives a crap about an old MIA. Whether lost in Vietnam or in his own mind.

I know.

[havocmom]

24. America has not just been 'dumbed down' by design

Seems too much of it has been 'numbed down' too, doesn't it?

Is there a gene for empathy and is it recessive? Seems memory isn't the only trait that is disappearing.

Sad about so much lost and sad that too many don't seem to be touched by the grief of others.

[Nikki Stone1]

26. "numbed down": I like that term

It's very accurate

[Generic Other]

27. Yet they spend millions for thrills so they can FEEL something

"Numbed down" is a good way of describing it. Only adrenaline rushes matter. Everything else we have drugs for.

[treestar]

23. The personal fallout

That the Cheneys and Rummies and Bushes consider as just numbers.

[proud patriot]

30. That damn war is still ripping apart families

I hate war . I try not to hate anything but I really think
I hate war .

we have a split in our family over Vietnam, a rift .

[rainbow4321]

32. Even before some have a chance to make a family.....

;(;(;(

12th snippit down the page

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/KAM746333.htm

MOSUL - Gunmen killed an off-duty policeman and his mother in Mosul, 390 km (240 miles) north of Baghdad, police said. It was his wedding day and he was heading for his bride's house.