What is the DU consensus on Malcolm X?

[ecstatic]

I saw an interesting quote from him, but I wouldn't want to quote it here without knowing the consensus.

[noonwitch]

1. Malcolm X was great, but imperfect like all of us

His hatred for all white people was extreme, but it mellowed before he was killed (probably one of the reasons Elijah Muhammed had him whacked). I read his autobiography in college, and he led an interesting life.

I still think Farakhan had a hand in his killing, though.

[bryant69]

2. Which era of Malcolm X are we talking about?

I mean his opinions shortly before his death were not exactly the same as those early in his career.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[skipos]

8. Exactly. He became more wise as he went along. nt

[hedgehog]

3. I think Malcom X was yet another example of the leaders of that era

who were murdered just as they were hitting their stride. It would be a far better world had he lived.

[insidious]

4. I often wonder

what he would say about the state of things today. I think he would re-apply his comments in regards to "house v. field servants during slavery" to today's republicans. It was pretty harsh when he said it and is not politically correct now, but I make it a point to quote him to any repig I come across now.

[jobycom]

5. I think Malcolm and Martin fought different manifestations of racism

Malcolm focused more on what I call urban or northern racism, whereas Martin fought southern racism. Southern racism was/is institutionalized segregation and exclusion of African Americans from white society. To fight this, Martin had to change government, and change laws, and force society to force government to change it, since it was an institutionalized, governmental, creation.

Malcolm fought against attitudes of individuals and of white society (and sometimes black society) against African Americans. (I'm not saying Martin didn't do this, too, and I'm not saying Malcolm wasn't concerned about segregation--just that their concentrations were on different aspects of racism). Whereas Martin had to get government to clean itself up, or get the federal government to force the southern local and state governments to follow federal law, Malcolm was trying to change individual perceptions to make people see African Americans as equals. I think that to do this, he had to be a fighter, and he had to create an image of African Americans as fighters, as equals demanding change rather than as individuals hoping for and asking for change. He had to challenge society, especially white society, but also in some ways black society, to see African Americans as equal in reality, not just law. Thus, he emphasized a separation of black and white, in some ways, or he emphasized the self-sufficiency of black society.

Obviously that's over-simplified, and both men were fully aware of both issues. Just a generalization on the focuses of both leaders.

It's a debate dating from the Civil War and beyond. Frederick Douglass versus those who wanted a separate country for the freed slaves, for instance. Or WEB Dubois versus Booker T. Washington. Obviously those comparisons don't line up perfectly with Malcolm v Martin, but the basic debate between separation and acceptance has been a part of race relations for as long as we have been conscious of race relations in America.

Just my thoughts. Probably wrong, as always.

[ecstatic]

23. very interesting analysis. I never considered the north/south thing nt

[Fovea]

6. a freedom fighter turned statesman turned martyr.

Malcom X is far too complex to shove into a sentence.

[cadmium]

14. good point. He wasn't one dimensional

He had respectful heated discussions over the airwaves with people who totally disagreed with him. I remember listening to him debate Jerry Williams in Boston. Racial issues were even more controversial than Vietnam here. These discussions may have been heated but they were not overly dramatic and were definitely unscripted. I voted for great civil rights leader.

[H2O Man]

7. Malcolm was not a "civil rights" leader.

He was a great human rights leader.

[Dhalgren]

9. Agreed...

[Taxloss]

18. Entirely possible to be both, as I feel he was.

Human rights are abstract principles that exist anywhere there are humans; civil rights are human rights enshrined in civil law.

Edited - corporations, animals and a variety of other non-human things have rights in law. So rights in law are not exclusively human.

[laststeamtrain]

10. Other. A great truth teller who didn't then run like hell & therefore...

...got shot.

A DU consensus?

hahahahahahahahahahaha:rofl:

[Iris]

11. Quote whatever you want.

We often discuss things here that do not have a consensus.

[Warpy]

12. He started out as a hateful racist but was murdered too soon

He had gotten the point, as evidenced by the final several chapters in his autobiography and would have been one of the greats had he been allowed to live.

He may even have eclipsed Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. We'll never know. We only know the great promise he represented by the end.

[applegrove]

13. Malcolm X morphed every decade into something else. I believe

he would have dropped violence and racism and become more like King in the end. He was still a work in progress. And because he wasn't following black muslim brotherhood leaders to a T .. I believe that is why he was killed.

[eleny]

17. Agreed

Didn't he have an epiphany when he traveled to other countries and saw that Muslims come in all shades of skin color? It was a revelation to him and he began to consider new ways of thinking.

King also changed. He started getting more political and that's when he was assassinated.

Both men reached out to all Americans as time went by. And that was when the government took action, imo.

[applegrove]

21. Sorry. I don't think anyone but lone nuts assassinated any of them except

for Malcolm X who may have been killed by the muslim brotherhood. Government never had anything to do with assassinations within the USA.

[Taxloss]

15. Must there be a "DU consensus" on anything/everything?

Broad church, DU. Good grief, how dull it would be if we all had the same opinions about everything.

[semillama]

19. Agreed.

I always thought that the term "DU Consensus" was an oxymoron.

Although I bet there is one thing we're all in consensus on - the world would be a better place if Al Gore won in a landslide in 2000...

[Taxloss]

20. Amen to that! n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. My own personal consensus...

is that people who respond #3 are full of shit.

From Malcolm's eulogy:

"There are those who will consider it their duty, as friends of the Negro people, to tell us to revile him, to flee, even from the presence of his memory, to save ourselves by writing him out of the history of our turbulent times. Many will ask what Harlem finds to honor in this stormy, controversial and bold young captain - and we will smile. Many will say turn away - away from this man, for he is not a man but a demon, a monster, a subverter and an enemy of the black man - and we will smile. They will say that he is of hate - a fanatic, a racist - who can only bring evil to the cause for which you struggle! And we will answer and say to them : Did you ever talk to Brother Malcolm? Did you ever touch him, or have him smile at you? Did you ever really listen to him? Did he ever do a mean thing? Was he ever himself associated with violence or any public disturbance? For if you did you would know him. And if you knew him you would know why we must honor him."

[ecstatic]

22. interesting. thanks for sharing! nt

[Shakespeare]

24. I can't stop giggling at the idea that there could ever be a concensus..

...on ANYTHING here on DU. And, I think this is one of our strengths (*except for occasional boneheadedness during election season).

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

25. So, what was the quote?