Seinfeld, Friends, The West Wing: Why AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is still necessary.

[chimpymustgo]

Yes, Seinfeld did begin inserting the occasional black character SEVERAL seasons into it's run - and after some public criticism. Yes, the show was about a microcosm of New York life. But still...it's NEW YORK CITY! How narrow is your world view that there would hardly be people of color standing around on the sidewalks, much less be major, even minor characters for years on that show?

It's a real problem with "Hollywood". It just doesn't occur to most white writers to include black people in their shows (a reflection of their own lives?). I could not conceive of a show like "Friends" not having a single black, or asian or latino "friend".

Even the liberal darling "West Wing" DID NOT HAVE A SINGLE BLACK CHARACTER IN THE PILOT. Now what kind of thinking drives that story development? A liberal, democratic administration that has NO BLACK PEOPLE IN IT. So somebody pointed that out, and that omission was "corrected".

But nobody looks around the set and says, "Hmm...is SOMETHING missing here?"

Woody Allen NEVER had black people in his often hilarious work, which typically showcased Manhattan as almost another character in his work. After some questions were finally raised about it, he featured a black character: a f*cking prostitute!

Spike Lee has said that after his first couple of films, white critics hounded him: "Spike - when are you going to have some WHITE characters in your films?" Why, the very idea of this exclusion was just incredible to them!

Folks, this is ONE reason we have affirmative action: without it, it just too often does not occur to whites to include/enroll/hire black people or other minorities.

[The Deacon]

1. And There Are Some Very Fine Black Character Actors

We don't see nearly enough of, so it isn't as though there isn't talent out there.

[RethugAssKicker]

2. Its more serious than just inclusion... This effectively keeps black

people unemployed... They simply do not hire/employ blacks, even as extras !..

How many times have you seen films, where there are literally thousand of extras and not even one is black?... I personally don't buy the argument that they just don't think of it.. It is completely intentional...

[chimpymustgo]

3. I agree that it is OFTEN intentional.

Why give a paying job that can go to a deserving white person to a person of color? Many whites view every black person with a job as someone who has TAKEN a job from a white person.

But I will give some white writers, producers, casters the benefit of some doubt. I do believe that some - sadly - they just don't see people of color with any kind of status fitting into their worlds.

And yes, that's racism too.

[bluestateguy]

4. "American Dreams" had several leading black actors

But networks are blind to anything but ratings, and the show was shit-canned after 3 seasons.

Also, let's be fair and remember that NBC gave us the Cosby Show for 8 years

[Pab Sungenis]

46. Cosby for 8 years.

...7 years longer than it was funny. :)

[hughee99]

5. Perhaps I'm mistaken...

but I do not believe that affirmative action programs have any sway over hollywood casting. They choose to cast (or more often, not to cast) minority actors, but there's no laws that push them toward diversity of the "on camera" talent.

[bobbolink]

33. That's not the point... it doesn't OCCUR to whites....

*THAT* is the point...

[hughee99]

35. I thought THE POINT was,

according to the OP, that this is an example of why we still needed Affirmative Action. I can seen plenty of reasons why we still need affirmative action, but IMHO, this is not such a case. The current affirmative action laws will do nothing to get more minorities working "on screen" in Hollywood.

[bobbolink]

37. the POINT was that white people don't even NOTICE the absence

of minorities.

[hughee99]

38. That's not how I read it...

The argument was "Seinfeld, Friends, The West Wing: Why AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is still necessary." The assertion that white people don't even notice the absense of minorities was to support this argument, not the reverse.

[bobbolink]

39. WHATEVER

The absense of minorities isn't noticed by whites.

I guess that's a revelation to you.

:crazy:

[hughee99]

42. It's not a revelation... It just seems to be secondary

to the discussion. Are there a lot of posts here about how white people don't notice that there's no minorities? That white people have some psychological, racists, or other mental blocking mechanism that prevents them from noticing that a show has no minority actors? Did we all miss "the point"?

What white people notice is IRRELEVANT to the discussion. Who cares what white people notice? The problem is that there is a serious lack of minority actors working in Hollywood today. If white people noticed this, would it then be okay? Hell no, it would still be a problem. The OP, and much of the ensuing discussion, our little jaunt not withstanding, is all about the lack of minority actors and what we can or can't, should or shouldn't do to correct this situation.

The OP seems to suggest that Affirmative Action can correct this situation. On that point, I disagree.

[bobbolink]

44. Obviously, to answer your question, you don't care.

And that makes me not care about what YOU think.

bye now....

[hughee99]

49. And that's the real issue isn't it...

It doesn't matter that I (and seemingly most of the other people here) see the OP and how it leads to the discussion about how minorities are underrepresented in Hollywood. Though I agree with the OP about the problem, my first post happened to disagree with the OP about the solution. NOne of that really matters, though...

You think I missed the point. I guess the point is that "it doesn't OCCUR to whites", that "The absence of minorities isn't noticed by whites." And though I've made an argument to the contrary on several posts that this is not the main point of the OP, explaining why I think so, you've repeated your mantra on several posts, without citing ANY REASON AT ALL why you believe that this is the main point, or at the very least why what I believe is wrong.

The only thing that you've convinced me of is that I've wasted too much time and energy on someone who isn't even making an actual argument, just trying to make me out to be a bad guy for some reason.

[Dick Diver]

6. Typically, I think most "works of art" --

if television programs can be considered as such -- are excluded from government regulations of this nature (Affirmative Action). Further, I'm not sure what you're suggesting here. Are you suggesting that the government enforce quotas on television shows and films to force a reflection of actual population demographics?

[RethugAssKicker]

32. Are you suggesting nothing be done.?.. Do we just continue

the way we're going until we completely have: White Show, Black shows, Hispanic shows,
Chneese Shows..... Wait a second....That is what we have... and the majority and/or rich get to rule...

What a fucked up society.....stop defending this intentionally, genuinely racist system!!

[Dick Diver]

56. What I'm suggesting we NOT do is...

1. Legislate how people make "art" forcing them to conform to the PC-principles of the day. Imagine looking at street scene (painting) from some artist and declaring that it can't be viewed as it doesn't reflect the ethnic and racial demographic of the time. Imagine imposing quotas on music that mandates a certain number of white singers, a certain number of black, etc., etc., to be played per hour, or the radio station will be shut down. But you seem to imply that you would impose just such a quota on a show like Seinfeld, requiring that a certain number of people seen on the street must be black, a certain number must be Chinese, etc.

2. "Re-educating" people through some sort of forced diversity training until they see the world through your eyes, or they are prevented from plying their art altogether if they don't.

Government-imposed thought police are not my idea of a solution in a free society.

BTW, the most "unrealistic" thing about Seinfeld is not the lack of diversity shown in NYC, it's the lack of people altogether. Rarely do you go out here and see so few people as depicted in the show. But, hey, after all, it's a TV show; it's not reality.

[quiet.american]

7. Yes, and Oliver Stone's "9/11" really took the cake on this.

If we are to believe it, it never occurred to Stone and his cadre of experienced, A-list producers and writers to check in with the real person they based one of the movie's heroes on. If they are to be believed they had no idea the real-life hero is African-American, and oops, they made him white in the movie.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

12. Now, I did hear that there was a racially ambitious scene in that

I hear that Jesus or maybe the Holy Spirit visits some survivors and is represented as a person of various sexes and colors. I heard of this from a white student who was upset; I guess she wanted Jesus to be represented in the historically correct form: a blue-eyes Caucasian from Southern California. So that's an interesting device, if what I heard is correct.

[bryant69]

8. So you are saying Writers and Directors should be forced

to write and create in accordance within a set of racial guidelines?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[chimpymustgo]

11. I'm saying, many have to be forced to THINK about it.

I'm not saying you can impose quotas on writers and directors. But we do apparently still need to work on opening people's closed minds, and helping them SEE the world around them.

And yes, we need actual enforcement in areas such as hiring and education. Hopefully, the spirit of inclusion and humanity will seep into other areas of life - including network comedies.

[JacksonWest]

15. Whose mind is closed?

If Woody Allen makes movies about his life, and they feature mostly white, Jewish New Yorkers- is that inaccurate? Why is it inconceivable that a show about six friends would feature six white people? It's more common then not. Whether you're in New York, or Chicago, or Detroit, people tend to socialize with people of similar backgrounds.

Why should writers and directors be compelled to fulfill a political agenda just so people can pretend that we live in a diverse and tolerant country? The creative fields cater to tolerant and progressive people. However, reality is reality. Seinfeld is no more racist then a Different World or Martin- or everybody hates Chris. Ultimately, a tv show or movies should be entertaining first, second, and third. If people are offended by a lack of diversity, then they shouldn't watch something. Ultimately, this won't have an effect, and will be forgotten. Frankly, I could care less what race is represented in any tv show or movie.

[Dick Diver]

18. So, what you're saying is that we should "re-educate" them

to change their socially unacceptable ways. Perhaps by forcing them into diversity training until they make the type of films, with the appropriate demographic mix, of which you approve? And, if the first training doesn't take, i.e., they persist in their socially-deviant behavior, send them back to the training camps until they get it right?

[sweetheart]

20. No, but a public airwaves censor might cut

...and ask for balanced content from privatized public broadcasters.

Let the lily white gilligans island/brady bunch/seinfeld/westwing make their shows,
and why force them to bring in characters they don't feel are relevant to their
story... but then the public broadcaster should have on-air the equivalent shows
with black actors, hispanic actors, and women.

The public obligation to inform has been left wanting, and the public broadcasters,
the common airwaves, need to be balanced and plural.

[bryant69]

21. See right there I'm not on your side

When you put West Wing and Gilligans Island in the same boat - it shows you have no perspective, and, consequently, aren't worth listening to.

Bryant

[sweetheart]

23. racewise

west wing and gilligans island are lily white entertainment, however deep,
and the context of the theatre, the actors and such, represent conventional
knowledge, one where the racial factors are decidedly omitted.

That you can't distinguish how alike they are in-framing, suggests haste...

[mondo joe]

24. Interesting that the raceof the lead actors is as or more significant to you

than the content of the show.

(To say nothing of the fact that one of the stars of the show as well as some recurring characters were Black.)

[sweetheart]

48. geez, apologists for ?

The gross overrepresentation of white entertainment, and the defense of this
as a somehow appropriate status quo by *progressives* is suprising.

I'm not suggesting that the shows be censored, rather that the content of
the overall networks be race balanced, and that there be a west wing, if
it needs be refilmed where all the principals are role/race reversed women
and blacks in the power roles... and an all-black refilming of gilligans
island, if it serves.. (dubious though it may be).

A young black kid with a television remote, a young hispanic kid, a young
gay kid, all of them should, given the public airwaves, should have a plural
mix of roles that, if one channel is disempowering, another is equally
opposite.

It is endemic to the entertainment, and frankly, my issues are more with
women than with skin colours. Women are perpetually objectivied and
stupified in patriarchal media, for all the profundity, Martin sheen is
not a black woman, and no matter how liberal he is, a black woman in that
role would better serve black women.

The framing is where the base identification happens, the sympathy with
a racist framework, where having a black person in the room is disrupting
of the consensus of a paper thin social fabric as north american demographics
turn decidedly otherwise.

[mondo joe]

51. And so to you the entire content of the show is negligible and it's

no different than Gilligan's Island.

Understood.

[bryant69]

26. Have you ever even watched the west wing?

Charlie Young was not in the pilot, but was added in the third episode I believe - he stayed with the show through the end, played by capable actor Dule Hill (and less you miss the point, he was black). He did end up being a perspective character (along with Donna) who could ask questions on behalf of the audience, so they could explain the plot. But besides him, they also had Admiral Fitzwallace - black and wholly admirable. The head of the NSA Nancy was black as well, and black characters showed up elsewhere as well.

Bryant

[chimpymustgo]

52. My point about the West Wing was that the pilot of this show, about a liberal

Democratic President and his staff HAD NO BLACK PEOPLE!!! No one noticed till the 3rd episode? I'm wondering what that tells us about the mindset of the creators, as well as the creators and writers of so much of tv entertainment.

The West Wing was a wonderful program, with rich, and eventually diverse characters. But at the start - no one seemed to notice - or care - that there were NO BLACK PEOPLE IN THE ROOM!

[bryant69]

55. THey had a black character in the second episode

They introduced Admiral Fitzwallace and Charlie by the third.

notably they had an Asian character in the first episode, and I think Asian-Americans are less represented on TV than Black People.

Bryant

[The Straight Story]

58. Well, bush has quite a few blacks in powerful positions (west wing...)

but some just call em tokens. Ya can't win for losing it seems.

As far as my point - we decry the lack of diversity on one hand, then blow it off when there is diversity on the other because the person being diverse is not someone we like, nor do we like the people (Rice, Powell, Gonzales, etc). Real life has more diversity in the west wing then the TV show.

So if Mel Gibson goes and makes a TV series and has some blacks in it, and it is a conservative show, will people applaud his diversity or thumb their noses at it and call it fake cause they don't like him?

[O.M.B.inOhio]

9. I find this insidious, too.

Good point, but let's not confuse fairness in employment with media representation.

Now, I do remember this subway scene in Friends where the whole car was filled with white passengers except for this black homeless man who has some lines. You just know the script said, "The subway car is filled with passengers. Near the door, a black homeless man stands up..." WHat do we call that? White Solipsism? Ignorance? Racism? Deplorable? All of the above? Do they think that including people of color is too "political" and so using all white actors is not political? Jeez!

[ecstatic]

10. I wonder who confronted the Nip/Tuck writers?

LOL!!!

That is the only scripted show I watch. Did anyone else catch the CRAZY plot shifts to include black characters? First Christian's black baby and then the Michelle character (Sanaa Lathan - I usually love her work by the way).

[Connie_Corleone]

17. I never heard of any group getting on Nip/Tuck's case.

I started watching the show because it's a guilty pleasure show (escape from politics). I'm lovin' the Christian and Michelle relationship. Maybe the actor playing Christian wanted a black/white relationship in his storyline.

[hexola]

13. TV shows are advertising...they want to sell stuff to White People...

Do any of you actually watch TV?

There is no shortage of Black sitcoms...cuz...ya know...Black people spend money too...

Its about money and demographics - not political PC crap...

If you want to get white people to buy "Product X" - then make a show that will appeal to them.

I dont see why this idea is so insidious???

What advantage does Friends or Seinfeld give to white people...??? If anything these shows portray white people as a bunch of shallow, souless fools...

[cali]

14. Affirmative action has nothing to

do with TV sitcom casting, nor should it. And I don't see anything odd about Friends having an all white cast anymore than I see anything odd about shows that have an all black cast. I don't know what the percentage of black characters are in current TV shows, so it's really difficult for me to know if they're under represented.

[lapfog_1]

16. In Hollywood, it's the default problem...

most characters and extras default to "white" and to a somewhat lesser degree, male.

When a role calls for a person of color, they find one, but if it doesn't, the casting directors and everyone else... doesn't.

Which leads to stereotypical roles as well... if you are doing a crime drama, and you have a purse snatcher or street mugging or car jacking... you get a Mexican or a black (is it CSI:Miami or CSI:NY), if you need a conflict between a DA who is trying to do the right thing and a community activist, you get black people, if you have an insider trading or corporate scandal that was covered up by murder, you get the default. And the default is white.

And that's racist.

[suston96]

19. Maybe, just maybe.....

....the reason is that both Seinfeld and Woody Allen movies dealt with neurotics, of which there were or are plenty in New York City. Woody Allen and Larry David are cut from the same genetic neuroses backgrounds.

Blacks have problems but New York neurosis isn't very prevalent.There were or still are a number of black oriented shows that dealt with funny situations of their particular genre.

I am disappointed that "The Wire" (HBO) is mostly about young black drug addicts and black gangsters in Baltimore. That cannot be for real, eh? There are token white policemen and white politicians but not very many. White folks should be complaining to HBO.

[Exiled in America]

22. You're facts about the West Wing are completely incorrect.

I'm only speaking of the first four seasons, while Aaron Sorkin was still a part of it:

Charlie's character was a major character, equal to every other main character on the show. He was there from the beginning, part of the opening title credits and his role was significant. Even after Sorkin left (which is when I stopped watching the show) I know that the role of Charlie continued to be expanded and significant.

In addition, not only did it have the character of Fitzwallace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, who played a significant role throughout the show, but particularly in seasons three and four, but the show also had its themes quite regularly devoted to the subject of racism (HUD secretary challenging racist senator, white house nominee in favor of slavery reparations, the whole series of episodes involving Charlie and Zoie dating and South Virginia White Pride attempting to kill him for it.

[mondo joe]

25. It's true theOP's facts are incorrect.

But I'll admit I was disappointed that there was only one non white major character, and that this was his position.

:-(

[WilliamPitt]

30. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, National Security Advisor

Both played by African Americans from the beginning.

So.

[mondo joe]

53. I know. But they're not major characters.

And I don't mean to downplay them.

West Wing was great - one of the best shows EVER to air on television.

This is just one of a few flaws that left me a little disappointed.

[Hippo_Tron]

68. Nancy McNally and Admiral Fitzwallace are secondary cast, but...

The West Wing makes better use of secondary cast better than any show that I've ever seen. The only key difference between secondary cast and primary cast is that the primary cast is featured in every episode. The show still relies on its secondary cast to function and thus I'd say that they were indeed major characters.

[chimpymustgo]

54. I said THE PILOT.

- snip -

Yet the pilot for "The West Wing," a White House drama he executive produced with Aaron Sorkin ("Sports Night"), turned out glaringly and unrealistically white. They say that will be corrected in the second episode, and I believe them.

-snip -

http://www.post-gazette.com/tv/19990912owen.asp

[Exiled in America]

63. Still incorrect

The first three episodes were all shot before the show ever aired - that includes the pilot. So it wasn't like Sorkin was "chastised" by people and then made "changes" to the plan to accommodate it. It was part of the plan from the beginning.

If you want me to get worked up because a single episode of a show doesn't feature enough people of color - especially a show that has been consistently good at tackling issues of diversity - you're asking for a bit too much.

[WilliamPitt]

28. Don't forget the Black woman who was National Security Advisor

[AngryOldDem]

31. Nancy McNally

Excellently played by Anna Deavere Smith.

The criticism of The West Wing is way off base.

[AngryOldDem]

29. Thank you

As I said in another thread on this topic, if the **quantity** of minority characters takes precedence over the **quality** of those characters and how well they are depicted, then what is the difference between a show chock-full of minorities and a minstrel show? Having minorities in a show just to have them is just as racist as excluding them altogether. Using The West Wing as an example of discrimination based on its PILOT episode is a very, very weak stretch in order to prove a point.

I note that the OP left out Good Times, what with the jive-talking, chicken-hat-wearing, loudmouth JJ and his stereotypical ghetto family (Esther Rolle and John Amos excluded). Then, there was Diff'rent Strokes (note, the spelling), with the white man coming to the aid of the poor black kids (again with all the ghetto trappings), and The Jeffersons, with its racism-in-reverse-but-just-as-offensive schtick, and so on.

The West Wing acquitted itself very well in terms of minorities and the storylines built around them. By the end of the series, Charlie Young was in effect CJ Cregg's (chief of staff) assistant, meaning he had much more power and access to it than he could have had he merely stayed Bartlet's coat-holder.

ON EDIT: Fixed spelling

[Generic Other]

27. Bigotry or timidity?

Maybe a more interesting question is whether tv is somewhat segregated due to timidity of tv execs.

In the old days there were race movies for people of color. They only appeared in black communities and featured all black casts. Today, that color separation is not so blatant but in the tv sitcom world may still be a subtle factor. It does seem as if some shows are mainly targeting black audiences. They rarely feature white characters. On the flip side there seem to be shows that cater mostly to white audiences.

One might believe this is due to self-selection by audiences. Or market research by tv execs.

Perhaps we should applaud all those shows that have actively made an effort to be inclusive especially if such choices impact ratings and advertising dollars, the only thing tv execs really care about anyway.

Most Seinfeld or Friends watchers probably would have accepted a person of color in the shows regular cast, but the tv execs are afraid to take risks. It is an interesting question as to whether this reflects bigotry or timidity.

[Taxloss]

34. I'd be extremely wary of forcing people who make entertainment and art to do anything.

This is a very slippery slope, old chap. It reeks of all that is bad about affirmative action - patronisation, tokenism and potential for backlash - and has little of AA's merits otherwise. South Park already plays on PC sensibilities around this issue by having a black child in it called "token". And certainly Seinfeld is extremely monochrome, something that is noticeable about a lot of otherwise excellent American comedies (yes, Frasier, I'm looking at you), but it also skewers social hangups around race and culture in a quite brilliant manner again and again. (Curb Your Enthusiasm does as well.) How you can mention The West Wing in this context is utterly beyond me, including as it does some of the best and most sensitive treatments of any number of less-considered and ill-treated social groups. There are vitally strong disabled characters, from the deaf adviser through to Bartlet himself, unconventionally attractive and sympathetic women lead characters, and a brilliant portrayal of a recovering alcoholic.

In all, I would far prefer that these shows stay true to what their creators intend for them and are judged on their merits, one of those merits (or demerits) being their reflection of American society, rather than forced into some committee-written straitjacket that promises to deliver diversity but in fact will do nothing but impose grim conformity.

[bobbolink]

40. What is this paranoia about "force" lately??

Who said anything about "force"???

The point was, white people don't notice the absence of minorities.

OK?

It should be a point well taken.

Or, maybe some people just come here to practice arguing.

[Taxloss]

41. So you don't want directors to be obliged to do anything?

How is that different to the existing system?

On edit: And please don't take out your frustrations with other posters on me.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Taxloss]

47. There's no call for that.

Either you are talking about imposing a system on directors, or you are not. If you cannot be clear about what you want, that is your problem, not mine, and your casual use of personal attacks is very telling.

On edit: What is meant by "affirmative action" if not "quotas"? Quotas mean obligation.

[hsher]

50. I work in entertainment production and I agree with you

1. Suddenly enters conversation
2. Says something inflammatory
3. Uses profanity and provocation
4. Accuses target of 2 and 3
=?

[Annces]

36. Speaking of black characters in shows, that character Elaine

from Seinfeld has her own show now. And in a previous episode, she had a big crush on the black grade school teacher and she was trying to avoid him at a dinner party, so she gave her black female friend (Wanda Sykes) a minute long kiss in order to hide from him.

[Ravenseye]

45. Disagree

I don't think that what is on television affects many people who do hiring. If they're racist enough to not hire a black/asian/gay/arab/jew because of who they are, then there are deeper issues causing it besides prime time broadcast television.

In addition I think affirmative action quotas on television shows would be not only nearly impossible to create, but detrimental to implement. Would every show need to have 30% of it's main characters be black? 10% gay? 4% Jewish? The sad truth about our society is that the races really don't mix as much as even television would probably show it to be. Most white people have mostly white friends, and most black people have mostly black friends.

Anyway. I think primetime television's ethnic makeup is more indicative of which demo the show is aiming for, than any racism, and any affect it has on hiring is negligble at best.

I've had to hire for well over 100 positions in my day, and I've come across ONE black candidate (for both design and developer positions). Plenty of white candidates. Plenty of asian candidates. Just one black candidate. We didn't hire him though. Another company offered him more money than we did. My point with mentioning this, is that just because someone doesn't have any black people on staff, doesn't mean that they're racist, and also that affirmative action is and should be a stopgap measure, and the true focus should be on creating a better educational system.

As long as the inner city schools in this country, which are predominately black, are also by far the worst schools in this country, there will be problems. We need to treat the symptoms yes (affirmative action helps people now), but we need to put more focus on curing the actual problem (the urban educational systems, and community support)

[Burma Jones]

57. Don't forget The Daily Show

Bunch of racists there


The Medical and Cop Shows all seem to represent a cross section....but I only know them by their promos, I don't watch much more than Football, Comedy Central, My Name is Earl, The Office, Family Guy and The Simpsons.............

[KittyWampus]

59. Look At Me, I'm So Liberal & Unbiased (sarcasm)

King of Queens
Scrubs
The Simpsons
My Name is Earl
Northern Exposure
Lost

All long running shows featuring blacks or 'minorities' along with the whites.

By the way, Bill Cosby discriminates against whites and non-blacks when he hires crew members to tape his shows.

Want a list of all black shows that don't bother putting white people in them?

[KitSileya]

60. Interesting...

I remember being intrigued by Grey's Anatomy precisely because of Preston Burke and Cristina Yang - hunky hot black guy and spunky gorgeous Asian chick. Of course, I'm from a society so white my grandmother could remember when the first black guy moved to town, and how fascinated they were by the his skin color - in Norway minorities are still mostly Asians, as in Pakistani, Tamils, and Vietnamese, not Africans.

While I think affirmative action in the entertainment business is a lost cause, it does showcase how AA is necessary elsewhere - if people mixed more, the lack of minority characters would be more apparent.

[Sapphocrat]

61. I never watched "The West Wing"...

...but I'm amazed that any show set in Washington, D.C., could fail to have even a single black person in its pilot.

That would be like a show set in West Hollywood without any gay characters.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. It didn't, but the reason is because the Pilot really takes place over 3 episodes

The West Wing literally has hundreds of characters in it because of the vast size of the federal government thus they have to be introduced over time. Charlie Young, the most prominent black role in the show, was introduced in episode 3.

[greenbriar]

62. Um...Charlie (Dule Hill) was in the pilot of WW and was there in the entirety

just saying

and it was not a token role. He was a major character

[Hippo_Tron]

65. He was actually introduced in Episode 3

But essentially he was there from the beginning.

[timtom]

64. Actually, I can think of another instance...

"Woody Allen NEVER had black people in his often hilarious work, which typically showcased Manhattan as almost another character in his work. After some questions were finally raised about it, he featured a black character: a f*cking prostitute!"

In the movie, "Bananas", a hilarious character was skillfully portrayed by one Dorothi Fox, an African-American actress.

[Hippo_Tron]

66. The West Wing didn't have any black actors in the pilot because Sorkin introduced the characters...

Over a span of the first few episodes. Both Chairman Fitzwallace and Charlie Young, both black and boht key to the show were introduced in Episode 3. I guarantee you Episode 3 had been filmed before the Pilot aired. Nobody told Sorkin "you need to put some black people in the show".

The West Wing also does more than include black actors, it actually confronts issues that effect minorities in ways that no other TV show does.