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June 28, what we ACCIDENTALLY learned from a Hardball commercial break and a live mic

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:08 PM
Original message
June 28, what we ACCIDENTALLY learned from a Hardball commercial break and a live mic
Edited on Mon Nov-27-06 07:12 PM by blm
and why the efforts have tripled since then to take Kerry out - especially after the Kerry-Feingold withdrawal plan vote cost Lieberman the primary.

This is news that corpmedia was HIDING from us - this focus group report was not intended to get out because the results were NOT what the establishment wanted. Kerry did TOO well. The news on the blogs became instead what Delay said about Hillary - completely covering up the news from the focus group.



MATTHEWS: Hey thank you for calling me. It was a good thing for me, mostly.
DELAY: Oh really.

MATTHEWS: Oh of course it was. We got on the air as fast as we could....

<...>

MATTHEWS: Shannon told me, she called me, she said 'don't worry -- he's not calling in to complain'...

MATTHEWS: Have you seen this new focus group stuff on the candidates?

DELAY: No I haven't

MATTHEWS: It's great stuff. I'll send it to you -- it's great -- yeah it's great stuff. Hillary, John Kerry. All these guys, all these democrats, and how they do. And, uh, Frank Luntz did it...

DELAY: who I like

CM: ...and Hillary did not do well. Kerry did well.

DELAY: You're kidding.

MATTHEWS: I am NOT kidding. They didn't like Edwards -- they thought he was a rich lawyer, pretending to care about poor people...

DELAY: Too slick. Too slick.

MATTHEWS: ...and Hillary was a know-it-all.

DELAY: Nothing worse than a woman know-it-all

<...>

MATTHEWS: Thanks. I owe you one. I owe you two -- today and last night.

DELAY: No you don't.

MATTHEWS: No, I do.

DELAY: I appreciate it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-shearer/found-object-delay-on-ha_b_18506.html
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Most telling is the insight on Matthews.Definitely a water-carrying toad!! nt.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Heh - we all KNEW that. Just the fact that he would keep the secret OUT of his newsshow
proves that he has no concern for the wellbeing of the Democrats.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. He is defintiely a propoganda Talk show host
He is a liar
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. And he saves the truth for commercial break and keeps it FROM the audience?
What kind of journalist does that?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. come on, gang....we all like REAL news that we learn from SECRET information
don't we?
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. "Fly on the wall" stuff is the best...
"They" will do what ever they can to undermine and/or ignore anyone who is looking out for our interest and is not in it for the game. You have done a wonderful job @ highlighting the work that Kerry has done on behalf of the American people, it is no wonder that they want to play down Kerry's positive focus groups results.

Thanks for posting, blm, it is a bit more insight.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I just don't believe in coincidence when it comes to BushInc.
I am also not believing in coincidence when it comes to the coverup wing of the Democratic party, anymore, either.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree on both points
Lots of sunshine is the best disinfectant...in both cases:)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. yes - but my fear is that the coverup Dems will have some success because
there is a vested interest from the mediawhores in keeping their BushInc loving bosses happy. Even Democrats who claim to be wary of media BELIEVE the media when it raves about a Democrat.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. there's a whole movie made out of this kind of footage
called "Spin," with tons of this kind of behind-the-scenes satellite footage from 1992 (Poppy Bush, Bill Clinton, Pat Robertson, Al Gore, etc.)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7344181953466797353&q=spin
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I never saw that - I'll put it on my very short Christmas list.
Thanks, Cocoa.
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spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. It's great
it shows how candidates opposing the military industrial complex have never a chance to get air time.
Or debate each other.


I remember there was guy who wanted to cut the defense spending by 50% and they didn't give him make up so he had to buy his own and apply it by himself.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Are you kidding? That explains even more. Kerry said he'd cut star wars
and all tactical nuke programs. Not to mention the overturn of the FCC ruling that allowed greater expansion of corporate media.

No wonder there is an all out press against him YET AGAIN.
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spillthebeans Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. No I'm not kidding and Ike Eisenhower warned us


The media manipulation reminds me bit of "Running Man" with Arnold Schwarzenegger
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Thanks for seeing it - it still amazes me that so many even at DU refuse to spot the
reality of the media manipulation if it suits their preferred storyline.
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NoSheep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
37. Do you know if I can buy this movie Spin?
Edited on Tue Nov-28-06 01:10 PM by NoSheep
I'm actually downloading it now.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. i remember. we are saying who do the repugs not want the most.
it is kerry
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Repubs have MSNBC in their back pocket, except KO.
The rest of them obviously coordinate with the GOP talking points each and every day.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Nor just GOP - add the coverup wing of the Dem party to that list.
They have alot to lose, too, at this point.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Chris Matthews "owes" tom DeLay. Screw Hardball forevermore. nt
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. The fact that tweety is sucking up to Delay says it all.
:grr:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Partly - but that Tweety keeps SILENT about the results of a huge focus group
Edited on Mon Nov-27-06 09:33 PM by blm
effort that was commissioned by NBC and that the network refused to air it because of the results says WHAT? The media did NOT want this information to get out there and Tweety never used it on his show.

Then the candidate who does the best is the one being targetted for attack nonstop by the media, BushInc and establishment Dems in his own party?
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
17. I hope Tip O'Neil haunts Tweety
n/t
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
21. It just fractures me when
I read glowing posts about how Tweety is now "singing our song". Chris Matthews is all about himself and his reading of the wind. Tip O'Neill would kick his butt if he was still with us.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. "Nothing worse than a woman know-it-all"
yer worst nightmare tommy-boy
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. yesss!
that jumped out at me too. they have no idea...lol
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. The fact that media BURIED Kerry doing the best is what jumped at me -
The media really is iNTENT on shaping the 2008 race. This report would not have been buried if the results were reversed and Hillary scored well.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. But the point that gets lost is that it was the focus group who felt that and
the internet attention was directed to DeLay's take and OFF the focus group results.

Had this focus group gone well for Clinton and poorly for Kerry, every corpmedia talking head would have been directed to feature it for weeks.

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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
24. K&R
Talk about a $ shot.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
29. The Biggest Surprise Is That People Would Give Credence To A Frank Luntz Focus Group.
I once went to a focus group... The best thing about it was the free doughnuts...




Frank (the guy with the dead raccoon on his head) is not credible...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. That's not what occurred - this was a serious one that was not meant for public
consumption. The nonserious focus groups are fed pablum and easily manipulated and the results are shared eagerly. The serious ones get covered up because they are meant to take a true pulse.

You think Tweety wouldn't have been talking about the results for days if the result was what the corpmedia WANTED?
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
31. Matthews = neocon toady. No cred. Bought and sold.
Edited on Tue Nov-28-06 10:13 AM by SpiralHawk
pretending to be a "journalist" Bwaaaa ha ha ha ha

On bended knee for the corrupt republicon cronies.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Well, his corrupt republicon cronies want Kerry out and Hillary in for 2008
Edited on Tue Nov-28-06 10:46 AM by blm
and are intent on using their corpmedia whores to do it.

Is it a wonder the constant degrading remarks against Kerry by media's talking heads that have been stepped up since this hidden focus group? One would have to be a coincidence theorist to believe they are separate occurrences.
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coco77 Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
32. Yesterday, Matthews said...
the Dems are the children and the repubs are the grownups and then he put up that sneaky hateful look he puts on when he looks at the camera, I wanted to slap him...
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
46. He's right in one sense--children maintain their innocence and decency,
while grownups are corrupted by cynicism and self interest.

Newsprism
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #32
47. I'd like to hear him say that to most any Dem's face.
Murtha, Kerry and Feingold were just SO immature with their detailed withdrawal plan and their claims of civil war in Iraq - - oh wait - - MSNBC is now agreeing there IS a civil war in Iraq....nevermind.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. Please tell me nobody's surprised to find out Tweety is a repuke lap dog...
please...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. heh - no one's surprised - but it does explain the new flurry of antiKerry attacks
that come from corpmedia.

They just aren't happy till their making Democrats shun one of their own, especially when that Dem will be chairing the hearings on net neutrality and FCC hearings, and they can use THEIR pulpit to make other Democrats shut his voice out at a time they need to be supportive - just like they did on Alito and Iraq withdrawal.
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-29-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. true dat, blm...true dat...(nt)
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
35. Ownership has its privileges.
And the privileged are the owners, all rhetoric and theory aside.

Any plans to take back the media?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Here's why Kerry became target number one for the "owners" of the media
above and beyond their usual water-carrying for BushInc, and why they STILL need to marginalize his influence even within the Dem party now that he takes control of the chairmanship of this committee.

NOTHING happens in a vacuum - especially NOT concerted attacks on a Democrat. What Carville did to both Kerry and Dean did NOT happen in a vacuum.




Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"

Commission Decision May Violate Laws Protecting Small Businesses; Kerry to File Resolution of Disapproval

Monday, June 2, 2003

WASHINGTON - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.
Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."


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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
38. It explains Quinnipiac's "likeability" thingy - everything is set straight there
Rudy is up (and Edwards too), Kerry down,Joementum up - better than Gore....Polls are manufactured news and whatever inconvenient facts they reveal can be corrected with another poll...
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
39. Frank Luntz uses the Delphi Technique. If you watch him closely
Edited on Tue Nov-28-06 04:40 PM by Joanne98
You will see him manipulate the focus group to form a concensus on an idea that wasn't even theirs...When corporations want to stop city councils from adopting polices they don't like. They will get a Town Hall meeting callled and send in a Delphi to manipulate the town sheeple. Some Delphis are paid as much as 16,000.00 per day....


THE DELPHI TECHNIQUE
http://www.premier1.net/~barkonwd/school/DELPHI.HTM

How to achieve a workable consensus within time limits

by Lynn Stuter


The Delphi Technique was originally conceived as a way to obtain the opinion of experts without necessarily bringing them together face to face. In Educating for the New World Order by Bev Eakman, the reader finds reference upon reference for the need to preserve the illusion that there is "Lay, or community, participation in the decision­making process), while in fact lay citizens are being squeezed out."


A specialized use of this technique was developed for teachers, the "Alinsky Method" (ibid., p. 123). The setting or group is, however, immaterial the point is that people in groups tend to share a certain knowledge base and display certain identifiable characteristics (known as group dynamics). This allows for a special application of a basic technique. The "change agent" or "facilitator" goes through the motions of acting as an organizer, getting each person in the target group to elicit expression of their concerns about a program, project, or policy in question. The facilitator listens attentively, forms "task forces," "urges everyone to make lists," and so on. While she is doing this, the facilitator learns something about each member of the target group. He/she identifies the "leaders," the "loud mouths," as well as those who frequently turn sides during the argument ­ the "weak or non­committal."


Suddenly, the amiable facilitator becomes "devil's advocate." He/she dons his professional agitator hat. Using the "divide and conquer" technique, he/she manipulates one group opinion against the other. This is accomplished by manipulating those who are out of step to appear "ridiculous, unknowledgeable, inarticulate, or dogmatic." He/she wants certain members of the group to become angry, thereby forcing tensions to accelerate. The facilitator is well trained in psychological manipulation. S/He is able to predict the reactions of each group member. Individuals in opposition to the policy or program will be shut out of the group.


The method works. It is very effective with parents, teachers, school children, and any community group. The "targets" rarely, if ever, know that they are being manipulated. If they do suspect this is happening, they do not know how to end the process. The desired result is for group polarization, and for the facilitator to become accepted as a member of the group and group process. He/she will then throw the desired idea on the table and ask for opinions during discussion. Very soon his/her associates from the divided group begin to adopt the idea as if it were their own, and pressure the entire group to accept the proposition.


This technique is a very unethical method of achieving consensus on a controversial topic in group settings. It requires well­trained professionals who deliberately escalate tension among group members, pitting one faction against the other, so as to make one viewpoint appear ridiculous so the other becomes "sensible" whether such is warranted or not.


DISRUPTING THE DELPHI

Note: The Delphi is being used at all levels of government to move meetings to preset conclusions. For the purposes of this dissertation, "facilitator" references anyone who has been trained in use of the Delphi and who is running a meeting.


There are three steps to diffusing the Delphi Technique when facilitators want to steer a group in a specific direction.


Always be charming. Smile. be pleasant. Be Courteous. Moderate your voice so as not to come across as belligerent or aggressive.
2. Stay focused. If at all possible, write your question down to help you stay focused. Facilitators, when asked questions they dent want to answer, often digress from the issue raised and try to work the conversation around to where they can make the individual asking the question look foolish or feel foolish, appear belligerent or aggressive. The goal is to put the one asking the question on the defensive. Do not fall for this tactic. Always be charming, thus deflecting any insinuation. Innuendo, etc. that may be thrown at you in their attempt to put you on the defensive, but bring them back to the question you asked. If they rephrase your question into an accusatory statement (a favorite tactic) simply state, "That is not what I stated. What I asked was... " Stay focused on your question.


3. Be persistent. If putting you on the defensive doesn't work, facilitators often resort to long, drawn out dissertations on some off­the­wall and usually unrelated or vaguely related subject that drags on for several minutes. During that time, the crowd or group usually loses focus on the question asked (which is the intent). Let them finish with their dissertation or expose. Then nicely with focus and persistence, state, "But you didn't answer my question. My question was..."


Always be charming, stay focused and be persistent. Never, under any circumstance, become angry. Anger directed at the facilitator will immediately make the facilitator the victim. This defeats the purpose which is to make you the victim. The goal of the facilitator is to make those they are facilitating like them, alienating anyone who might pose a threat to the realization of their agenda. If the participant becomes the victim. the facilitator loses face and favor with the crowd. This is why crowds are broken up into groups of seven or eight, why objections are written on cards, not voiced aloud where they are open to public discussion and public debate. It's called crowd control.


It is always good to have someone else, or two or three others who know the Delphi Technique dispersed through the crowd; who, when the facilitator digresses from the question. will stand up and say nicely, "But you didn't answer that lady (/gentleman)'s question The facilitator, even if suspecting you are together, certainly will not want to alienate the crowd by making that accusation. Sometimes it only takes one occurrence of this type for the crowd to figure out what s going on. Sometimes it takes more than one.


If you have an organized group, meet before the meting to strategize. Everyone should know their part. Meet after the meeting to analyze what went right, what went wrong and why, and what needs to happen the next time around. Never meet during the meeting. One of the favorite tactics of the facilitator if the meeting is not going the way they want if they are meeting measurable resistance, is to call a recess. During the recess, the facilitator and his/her spotters (people who wander the room during the course of the meeting, watching the crowd) watch the crowd to see who congregates where, especially those who have offered measurable resistance. If the resistors congregate in one place, a spotter will usually gravitate to that group to join in the conversation and will report back to the facilitator. When the meeting resumes. the facilitator wi11 steer clear of those who are resistors . Do not congregate. Hang loose and work the crowd. Move to where the facilitators or spotters are. Listen to what they have to say, but do not gravitate to where another member of your team is. This strategy also works in a face to face, one on one, meeting with anyone who has been trained in how to use the Delphi Technique.


FROM A REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC TO A PARTICIPATORY DEMOCRACY


With the advent of education reform, the ensuing turmoil among the citizenry, and the grassroots research that has been sparked therefrom, a consistent pattern with respect to public participation and input has emerged, giving cause for alarm among people who cherish the form of government established by our founding fathers. Recent events, both inside and outside education have brought the emerging picture into focus.

In the not too distant past. The hiring of a consultant by the City of Spokane to the tune of $47.000 to facilitate the direction of city government brought a hue and or from the populace at large. Eerily, this scenario held great similarity to what has bean happening in education reform. The final link came in the form of an editorial comment made by

Chris Peck regarding the "Pizza papers." The editorial talks about how groups of disenfranchised citizens were brought together to enter into a discussion of what they felt (as opposed to know) needed to be changed at the local level . The outcome of the compilation of those discussions influenced the writing of the city/county charter.


Sounds innocuous enough. But let s examine this a little closer, Let's walk through the scenario that occurs in these facilitated meetings. First, about the facilitator. The facilitator is hired to facilitate the meeting. While his/her job is supposedly non­directive, neutral, non­judgmental, the opposite is actually true­­the facilitator is there to move the meeting in a preset conclusion. This is done through a process known as the Delphi Technique, developed by the RAND Corporation for the US. Department of Defense as a psychological warfare weapon in the 50s and 60s. Comforting, no doubt. With this established, let's move on to the semantics of the meeting.


It is imperative to the success of the agenda that the participants like the facilitator. Therefore. the facilitator first works the crowd to cause disequilibrium­­establishing a bad guy, good guy scenario. Anyone who might not agree with the facilitator must be seen by the participants as the bad guy, the facilitator the good guy. This is done by seeking out those who might not agree with the facilitator and making them look foolish, inept, or aggressive, sending a clear message to the audience that it if they don't want the same treatment to keep quiet. The facilitator is well trained in how to recognize and exploit many different psychological truisms to dothis. At the point that the opposition has bean identified and alienated, the facilitator becomes the good guy­­a friend­­and the agenda and direction of the meeting is established without the audience ever being aware of th same.


Next, the attendees are broken up into smaller groups ­ usually of seven or eight people ­ each group with a facilitator. Discussion ensues wherein the participants are encouraged to discuss preset issues, the group facilitator employing the same tactics as the lead facilitator. Usually participants are encouraged to put on paper their ideas and disagreements, these to be later compiled by others. Herein lies a very large problem. Who compiles what is written on the sheets of paper, note cards, etc.? When you ask the participants, you usually get, "Well, they compiled the results." Who is "they?" "Well, those running the meeting." Oh­h! The next question is ­ How do you know that what you wrote on your sheet of paper was incorporated into the final outcome? The answer you usually get is, "Well, you know, I've wondered about that, because what I wrote doesn't seem to be reflected here. I guess my viewpoint was in the minority." And there you have the crux of the s situation If you have fifty people in a room, each writes his/her ideas and dislikes on a sheet of paper, to be compiled later into a final outcome, each individual having no idea of what any other individual wrote. How do you know that the final outcome reflects anyone's input? The answer is ­

you don't. The same scenario holds when there is a facilitator recording your comments on paper. But the participants usually don't question this, figuring instead that their viewpoint was in the minority and thus not reflected.


So why have the meetings at all if the outcome is already established? Because it is imperative to the continued well­being of the agenda that the people be facilitated into ownership of the preset outcome. If people believe the idea is theirs, they support it: If the people believe the idea is being foisted on them, they will resist. Likewise, it is imperative to the continued well­being of the agenda that the people perceive that their input counts. This scenario is being used very effectively to move meetings to a preset conclusion, effectively changing our form of government from a representative form of government in which individuals are elected to represent the people. to a "participatory democracy" in which citizens, selected at large, are facilitated into ownership of preset outcomes, perceiving that their input resulted therein, when the reality is that the outcome was already established by people not apparent to the citizen participants. 
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I watched him do it once on Cspan in 2002 - he tried to make people
Edited on Tue Nov-28-06 04:47 PM by blm
disagree with Kerry then, too. But, when people are paying attention and focusing, men like Gore and Kerry come off better. It is casual viewers who are more easily susceptible to spin and unsubstantive talk.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I've watched him do it too. He intimidates and humilates the people
who try to go against him. Someone should call him on it. Once people know about this tactic, it won't work anymore. Look how they are using it on teachers. They never stop trying to destroy the public school system.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. They turned it into an art form.
They really have the media wired now to support them. The only thing that can get in their way is when people REALIZE what is happening and RESIST what they are selling.
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warrens Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
41. DELAY: Nothing worse than a woman know-it-all
Jesus, they don't even pretend anymore. Good god. Surprised he didn't add, "except for an uppity (you know what)."
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
42. I prefer Hannity to Matthews
Even though Sean Hannity makes me vomit, at least he's straight forward about who he supports and who he doesn't.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Hannity is predictably pathological, not schizophrenic like Matthews.
.
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-28-06 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
49. eff chris matthews
thanks Huffington Post. The fact that cm has whora o'donell subbing for him explains it all. She can't disguise her hate as well. why doesn't the asshole just come out?
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