Get Out. Just get the fuck out.

[matcom]

it is a Civil War. it HAS been. we created it. we couldn't stop it. we CAN'T stop it. this was a mistake. fucking Freepers even KNOW it is a mistake (the (just) batshit crazy ones anyway).

get out.

now.

fuck politics. we lost. we lose. MISTAKE

send in the diplomats.

send in the Red Cross.

send in the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it is going to take to fix this. go ahead and raise my taxes to cover it. you will anyway. finally maybe some of my taxes will actually be used for something worthwhile (even though *I* never sanctioned my $$ for your ass-wipe ideas)

I told you so asshole and so did millions of patriots around the world. tell you what. don't worry about that. get out. get out now. get the FUCK out.

NOW

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Let's stay forever and annex it!

:think:













/s

[leftofthedial]

2. amen

not one more day

[me b zola]

58. ...not one more life

[angstlessk]

3. matcom,. you Will Pitt and a few others were ALL there BEFORE the war

trying to do what you could to stop it. I recall your flyer days in Boston..and how passionate you were about STOPPING the war before it began. You and a few others went well beyond the marching in DC and NY! You have more right to rant than most people I know!

[matcom]

7. everyone has the right

even those who came late to the party.

i'm just so sad. failure will do that to you.

thanks for remembering that we tried to make a difference though. we knew we would fail but it felt good to try.

we will keep trying. bank it.

thank you.

[L0oniX]

69. How refreshing this is ...I thought this forum was becoming too centrist and ...

even smelled a little like repuke. Some are even busy counting our dead and they dont care about the 655,000 dead Iraqis. I'm going like WTF and why am I on this forum?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

[mom cat]

93. Just keep posting the truth. This forum will not carry the truth about

the horrific slaughter in Iraq unless people who care about what is happening keep bringing it up. Just keep doing your part. It really matters.

[Bluebear]

31. Actually the majority of DU was there before the war.

And we were called unpatriotic and told to "move to France". Really.

[nam78_two]

45. As was everyone who dared to question King George back then

It amuses me to see people like Andrew Sullivan NOW continue to beat up on people like Krugman, who dared question that asshole, back when his approval rating was in the 70s or 80s (well ok actually I don't remember if it was that high in the run up to the war but it was above 60 I will wager).

People like Sully now expect people to appreciate his wonderful "level-headedness" cause 6 years down the line he finally realizes that *gasp* the Iraq war was a bad idea :eyes: ( I am sure he still has no moral qualms about it-its just not turning out that well).

I have no problem with regular people who came late to the party-the more the merrier-
These effing "pundits"-ugh-they are a whole different deal.

Sully has his share of blame for the relentless tom-tomming he did for this war back then, as does every other "Oh I have had a change of heart" right leaning faux pundit out there....

Kudos to all the rest of you who spoke up about it back when it wasn't ok to do so and Elizabeth Bumiller didn't dare ask tough questions because of the "reverence one feels in the WH conference room" (or whatever)....:applause:

[immoderate]

76. Actually, Bush's ratings were falling before 9/11.

He may have been as low as 45%. The 9/11 attack was a great boost for him, when he really needed one. Before that, he was all about missile defense, deregulation, and tax cuts for the rich.

--IMM

[nam78_two]

80. True-I meant post 9/11 though

I don't remember what they were just before the war though...

[calimary]

77. Yep. I remember being flipped off on the sidewalk outside the

Federal Building in West L.A. when we were protesting during the run-up to the war - by a speeder in a fancy car with his window down. Nice big flying finger as he roared by. We flashed him the peace sign. He was going so fast I'm sure he didn't see it. A LOT of us here on DU tried our damnedest to stop it. And EVERYTHING we said about it, EVERYTHING we warned about it, it ALL came true - AND WORSE. A LOT of us could say "I told you so," but we'd get no satisfaction from it.

:(

[LSK]

96. I didnt know about DU then, but I was having plenty of fights at the time

I no longer associate with a group of people who drank the koolaid.

I am very happy to be here now.

[opihimoimoi]

84. "Heh heh heh...but we are turning the corner...." That was 3 years ago

and the corner led to another....and another....

[monmouth]

4. Absolutely agree. I'm so tired of hearing "well, six months, eight months

or in the middle of '07. If I had a kid there I would be so outraged. Let's get the hell out of there now. It's over, we lost, live with it. I have to laugh when I see these items about Bush's legacy. It truly makes me ill and now millions going into a stupid presidential library!!! God give me strength, the farm in Ireland is starting to look good.

[blm]

5. The moment they knew it was civil war last spring it was IMMORAL to stay any longer.

Many Democrats refused to acknowledge the truth about civil war back then, and instead wanted to absolve themselves from all responsibility by giving Bush further leeway.

13 Democrats voted for withdrawal.

[L0oniX]

67. Was that before the 655,000 dead Iraqis or after?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

[IndyOp]

6. Nir Rosen: Iraq's civil war will spread for decades to Jordan, Iran, Saudi Arabia

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2813230

[Horse with no Name]

8. You got that right.

And Craig Crawford was on KO tonight basically saying the media hasn't been doing their job.
There isn't any fixing this.
It's just going to be bloody violence until someone emerges as a leader.
I am sure whoever it is will make us yearn for the peaceful days of Saddam.
That's the fucking bad thing.

[angstlessk]

10. EVEN fucker..er uh...tucker carlson said 'no wonder no one can

find a solution...there IS NO SOLUTION'...AKA...we are fucked...Okay...time to GET THE FUCK OUT!

[L0oniX]

105. We should have paid Saddam $50,000,000,000 to stop f*cking around ...

rather than spend over $350,000,000,000 to kill him and a few others ...oh yea ...and the 655,000 dead dads, moms and children. I am sure he would have STFU and been a good little warrior for that kind of money. WTF ...he used to buy our weapons. Better that he killed a few hundred of his own than to have us kill 655,000 Iraqis.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

:nuke: :wtf: :nuke: :wtf: :nuke: :wtf: :nuke: :wtf:

[LibDemAlways]

9. In early 2003 a repuke I know laughed when I said

Bush was a greater danger to world peace than Saddam Hussein could ever dream of being and that the Iraq invasion would turn out to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions. He isn't laughing anymore.

[Nite Owl]

13. I had fellow dems look at me

like I had ten heads when I said that back before the war started. Then it became we have to shut up our troops are on the ground. Well yeah, that's why I would never shut up. And still won't, ever. Bring them home now period.

[L0oniX]

68. Yea same here ..people told me to get out of the USA if I didnt agree

:wtf:

[bluerum]

11. Matcom makes a left at the lounge! I agree - civil war and a massive

clusterf!ck all in one, courtesy of the monkey in chief.

I agree with getting out - but not with sending in more $$. If it hasn't happened with the $$'s that have been poured in there, it ain't gonna happen. Maybe some limited $$ tied to tangible results and earmarked for specific development programs.

Active diplomacy and sane regional foreign policy need to be established. Once the region is stable maybe we can invest in some economic development but by that time oil revenues should keep Iraq self-sustaining.

[tavalon]

85. The problem is

most of that money was not funneled into Iraq, it was funneled into Halliburton. If we actually used the money appropriately, it would help. We should shut down Halliburton, take all of their money and re-funnel it into Iraq. How about that?

[bluerum]

99. If the money could be distributed in a way so that for the most part

it helped create jobs, education, and health services for the people of course.

But the squatter in chief and his cronies cannot even manage to do that in this country.

[femrap]

100. Yes, let's liquidate Halliburton.

Good idea. They already have sold off Kellogg, Brown and Root (KBR). I think they did that so when the Gov't does investigate and eventually punish, it will go after KBR. But We the People won't stand for that. We the People will take Halliburton down.

I am so sick of Corporate Welfare.

[onehandle]

12. We Won! Gas is ten cents a gallon.

They welcomed us with with open arms!

Hold on, I'm wearing my freeper glasses...



Oh, fuck...did Bush ever hose us like kkkrazy.

[libnnc]

14. Get the fuck out now.

That's the only way to put it.

Bring our troops home. Right fucking now.

[stevedeshazer]

15. Hello, Brother.

We tried to tell them.

I was here, along with a few other DUers and a bunch of pissed off Oregonians:



I hate being right sometimes.

[JuniperLea]

16. It's not "cut and run"... it's "cut our losses"

And the losses of the Iraqi people. Iraq cannot heal until we leave. The longer we stay, the worse it will be and the harder it will be to put things right.


I'd like to see Bush and Cheney dangling by their little boy bits over the most violent area in Iraq...

The bastards knew as well as we did that this would turn sour.

[BlueIris]

17. Yep. Yank 'em.

ASAP.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

18. Was "change course/get out of Iraq" in the "100 hours" agenda? Hmm

[tbyg52]

19. I used to be "you break it, you fix it"

But it is not fixable anymore, at least not by us.

Out, out, out. The only things keeping us there are the cabal and the O.I.L.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

20. And pride.

[tbyg52]

21. Of the overweening variety. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

63. fixing it -in this case is 'do no further harm'- and get the hell out of

Dodge.-
It also means admitting to the IRAQI people, and the world that we screwed up.
There is honor in admitting when you mess up. Honesty, and humility don't make us more 'vulnerable' or less ...'wrong'- but it gives us some shred of integrity, and humanity.

We can't throw this on the shoulders of the soldiers, the Iraqis "not stepping up to the plate" or poor planning- the whole concept was wrong, and BAD to begin with. And denial doesn't protect anyone- or help anything, except the likelihood of history continuing to repeat itself yet again.

This is one of those NOT 'happily ever after' situations. It's time we learned to accept reality and stop trying to BE 'god' to the world.-

For everyones sake- we need to leave, and admit our horrible blunder.

And learn from our experiences- that is the only way to honor all who have died, on all sides.

peace,
blu

[tbyg52]

103. Exactly

and there's the rub. Who in the cabal is going to admit a horrible blunder?

[LonelyLRLiberal]

101. It's Bush's insanity that's keeping us there.

Even today, he still denies the civil war and says we aren't leaving! He is either ignoring what everyone can see or he is just plain NUTS.

[Robbien]

22. By staying we will never be able to make it better, it just escalates

The WH admin is good at making up catch phrases. They should throw out a good one for cover as we high tail our butts out of there.

[charlyvi]

23. I worry we may have to fight our way out.

Military retreat is not an easy maneuver. My god! I just flashed to Saigon in '75! How many Iraqis will be killed after we leave, just because they helped us? Will anyone think to bring them along? I remember all the people we left behind in Saigon who were begging us to take them. Horrible, horrible.

[lonestarnot]

28. Nope what happens now is air support and killing of hundreds of

(if not thousands) of innocent people.

[mopinko]

43. i worry about that, too.

these people who say we have to leave slowly make the pressure in my head build to dangerous levels.
so, is my memory just foggy or did the shooting stop shortly after we left? i know many of our "friends" were killed. but that was about it.
we are a catalyst. we need to just packing it up and haul it home. there is no easy way. just do it.

[charlyvi]

49. I found this on the BBC

1975: Saigon surrenders
The war in Vietnam ended today as the government in Saigon announced its unconditional surrender to North Vietnamese forces.

The President, Duong Van Minh, who has been in office for just three days, made the announcement in a radio broadcast to the nation early this morning. He asked his forces to lay down their arms and called on the North Vietnamese Army and Vietcong to halt all hostilities.

In a direct appeal to the Communist forces, he said: "We are here to hand over to you the power in order to avoid bloodshed."

The announcement was followed swiftly by the arrival of North Vietnamese troops. Their entrance was virtually unopposed, confounding predictions of a bloody and protracted last-ditch battle for the city.

War ends

The front line of tanks smashed through the gates of the presidential palace within minutes, and at 1130 local time (0330 GMT), decades of war came to an end.

Vietcong troops, many barefoot and some no more than teenagers, rounded up government soldiers, and raised their red and blue flags. The looting which has ravaged the city over the last 24 hours stopped, and power was restored later in the day. Only the United States embassy remained closed and silent, ransacked by looters.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/30/newsid_2498000/2498441.stm


There was no bloodbath; however, I wonder how they treated "collaborators".

[lonestarnot]

55. I'm not talking about them doing the killing, I'm talking about us

and the protection that will take the place of boots. It will be bombs until we are out.

[lonestarnot]

56. See my post above, #55

[tnlefty]

24. But, but, but. we were just a "focus group" remember?

I certainly remember the (202) numbers that appeared on my phone bill, calling reps and senators not to vote for the IWR. I was at the pleading and begging stage. Unprecedented numbers of people in the streets trying to stop this clusterf*&k before it started, but we were just a "focus group". Turns out that the focus group was correct all along.

Nothing but disgust from me.

[Cha]

25. Yes, we were the "focus group"..

And there were millions of us protesting on Feb 15, 2003 across the Planet who said "NO! To War"..and the corporatemedia played it down and under reported the number of People in the Streets. With a Free Press there would be no bush.

[matcom]

26. 10/02

the day Wellstone was assinated to be exact

[lonestarnot]

106. yeah the fuckus group, if you're from the South.

[shadowknows69]

27. matcom for President

Get them home now. An occupying force can't win the peace.

[matcom]

30. i don't want the job

and anyone who does should be automatically disqualified ;)

[shadowknows69]

33. All the more reason to nominate ya

:patriot:

[GymGeekAus]

36. Kucinich has the plan.

But America isn't going to like it.

You wanna disqualify his plan now, or do you want to read it first?

[matcom]

37. well since you haven't presented it, it is kinda hard for me to make a judgement

or am i missing something :shrug:

[GymGeekAus]

39. Good luck! n/t

[matcom]

42. with what?

:shrug:

:shrug:

[GymGeekAus]

44. Your exciting new hobby...

as an active consumer of your news and media.

Go find it. Can't be that hard. Randi read it on the radio a couple of weeks ago.

[bobbolink]

29. One disagreement. It wasn't a "mistake". It was a CRIME!

Other than that, I'm with you.

Totally.

:applause:

[GymGeekAus]

32. Then we gotta do it right.

And that means throwing ourselves before the UN and the World Court.

And accepting their judgement, in order to get their help.

In other words, not going to happen as long as the President is in power.

[proud patriot]

34. the sooner the better IMO

:patriot:

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. AMEN!!

[OhioChick]

38. Agreed. n/t

[MGD]

40. "I told you so asshole" probably won't help sway their minds. eom

[Zhade]

83. Sometimes we just have to say it.

If people had listened to those of us who were right all along, maybe so many wouldn't be dead now.

Harsh but true.

[Jcrowley]

41. Take it to the streets

excellent post

make a sign

go public

make it mean something

k&r

[nam78_two]

46. K&R/nt

[MoseyWalker]

47. Somewhere between get the fuck out

and the bastards that said get the fuck in

is a place.

Help those who have been harmed.

[noamnety]

48. Out Now. Yes. (nt)

[northofdenali]

50. What 's sad is that we DU'ers have known this from the start.

We damn sure tried to stop it; then we supported those who were sent to fight it (without supporting the Asshole-in-Chief's illegal quagmire); now we have the votes (or will, in January).

Agreed, matcom. GTFO of Iraq.

Then make the Pukes who got rich off the "war effort" pay it back in some HEFTY profiteering taxes.

[DemoTex]

51. Like I said from the getgo: Viet Nam Redux

Only worse.

[mopinko]

54. .

[Canuckistanian]

52. Matcom's right. You lost. Get over it. Get out.

Permanent bases? Gimme a break. Gynormous embassy? Hellooooo, Reality calling, anybody home?

Long-term presence? Let me put it this way.

For every American that dies after this point, their spouses, families, friends and colleagues should hold this administration liable for an illegal killing.

Impeachment, The Hague, lifetime imprisonment.

This charade is over.

[WillyT]

53. K & R !!!

:kick:

[unkachuck]

57. are we still in Iraq?....

....I can't believe we're still Iraq....why would anyone still want to be in Iraq?....why?...haven't enough people died yet?....haven't enough people suffered?....haven't enough lives been ruined?....haven't enough children been killed?....haven't enough property been destroyed?

....or haven't enough people made a profit off this yet?....out of Iraq, NOW!!

[spacelady]

59. The disheartening thing is that it is not even any fun to say

"I told you so" this debacle has gone so far south that even though I would like my taxes raised to help make amends, I do not trust that any entity will get it to where it needs to go. Please excuse my national isolationism, but there are disaster victims right here in the good ol' USA who are in need.

My wish is for those soldiers who are there get home intact.

[me b zola]

60. k&r

[Lilith Velkor]

61. It's what the Iraqis want, and the right thing to do

Troops the fuck out now!

[JCMach1]

62. Call it: Strategic Withdrawal and just get out

I agree Matcom...

[BlueStorm]

64. Agreed... we need to fucking get out...

We only look like fools if we continue to stay.

We didn't have a fucking plan when we went in and look what happened, we screwed up that country so bad that it's now utter chaos. On top of that we have no other recourse but to GET OUT!!!

This administration stubborness and bull headed action against Iraq has killed thousands and thousands.

No wonder the world thinks Americans are insane.

They're telling us to GET. OUT. NOW!!!

And we need to start listening.

Blue

[L0oniX]

65. So we murdered 655,000 Iraqis for what?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/index.html

[RetroLounge]

71. You are asking the wrong people...

eom

RL

[bridgit]

74. for the bfee...

but don't look at me cause it wasn't me idea

[cynatnite]

66. We could have stopped it before it began...

but bush and rummy in all their wisdom disbanded the Iraqi military, took apart the country's infrastructure and basically de-Baathed the government. That left huge amounts of out of work Iraqis, people without electricity, food, water, medical care and other basic services. Bush administration made Iraq a breeding ground for civil war.

So, yes. It's time to leave. Well, it was time to leave like...never going in the first place.

[omega minimo]

70. FUCKIN FUCK YEAH!!!!1

fuck


that'll tell 'em

[Az_lefty]

72. that's what I've been saying since I was in Iraq..

GET THE FUCK OUT!!!

[ninkasi]

73. Matcom, you're right

We were against this from the beginning. It was so frustrating, being able to see what was going to happen. I remember telling my husband that there was absolutely nothing Saddam Hussein could have done, or agreed to, to prevent Bush from invading Iraq. My world began to shrink when the invasion started, because except for a few family members, and a very few friends, everybody else thought it would be the cakewalk the fools predicted.

It's not any fun to be proved right, when the whole thing has been so destructive, so bloody, and so unnecessary. The ones who say we need to stay are wrong. We need to go, now, right now. Things will only get much, much worse, There is no way to have a successful outcome to such a terribly wrong, immoral war. Staying will only prolong the slaughter on both sides.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

75. yes... no more!

K & R

[immoderate]

78. Yep. Take a knee. Get off the field!

--IMM

[XOKCowboy]

79. Get out. Cut KBR/HBurton/CACI/etc off immediately..

Then start sending a 10th of the money we spent invading and occupying Iraq to Iraqi's to rebuild their country. The country may be too far gone now for even this to work. It's what we should have done in the beginning.

[Philosoraptor]

81. Get Out. Just get the fuck out.

[Skidmore]

82. Matcom for President!!! Sanest thread on the board right now.

I'm with you on this one.

[NNN0LHI]

86. Time to pull out the troops and send in the lawyers n/t

[LionInWinter]

87. With all respect to Warren Zevon ...

we've already tried the "guns & money" part and they haven't worked!

[lizerdbits]

88. My Army veteran coworker's plan:

I'd guess he's late 50's. He said "Pile a bunch of weapons in the middle of the country and run. This mess isn't fixable."

[NoSheep]

89. I agree completely. Have always. Get the FUCK OUT.

I also agree that our money will be better spent there when the troups are gone.

[New Earth]

90. GTFO!!!

[Raster]

91. Bring Them Home!

[Pacifist Patriot]

92. Amen.

[Usrename]

94. Get Out. Just get the fuck out.

K&R

[Turn CO Blue]

95. A-freakin-men! Get out now! And yes, send in more $$$ for jobs

These people need jobs. The rebuilding contracts should be going to Iraqi companies. The schools, roads, bridges, power plants, etc. should be built by Iraqi contractors. I'm okay if we send in my tax money to pay for Iraqis to have jobs -- no more money to Halliburton, etc.

If these angry people had jobs, food, clean water, etc. perhaps they would be less inclined to blow each other up.

If there is anything we've learned in our own society about people becoming complacent, it's that the populace can be subdued with lots of fattening food and vapid cable TV programming! It's better than any drug or any type of diplomacy! (that part was snark)

Anyway, in all seriousness, our country owes their country lots of monetary reparations.



on edit: need to learn to type

[pat_k]

97. Impeach. Open the doors that are closed to the War Criminals.

A rogue regime seized the power of the American presidency on January 6th, 2001. The people of other nations can no longer appeal to good will of the American people because we surrendered the sovereignty of We the People.

As long as we leave governing power in the hands of men who are a law onto themselves, options that would be available to a legitimate American President will remain closed to us.

If we are to have any shot at helping to find ways to stop the conflict and chaos that is spreading inhumanity and destroying lives in the Middle East we must prove to the world that the people of the United States have unequivocally rejected the insanity of Bush World by reasserting our collective sovereignty, forcing Bush and Cheney out of power, and turning them over to the Hague to answer for their war crimes.

If we restore legitimate leadership in the White House, the doors of possibility that are closed to the fascist war criminals will open

Legitimate American power can be transformed into a force for good overnight. We can commit our nation to the task of engaging the critical players (Sunni, Shia, and Kurdish blocs, ourselves, the EU, Turkey, Russia, China, the Arab League. . . ) and helping them to find solutions that can work because all the parties have a stake in making them work.

If our participation is rejected because of complicity in the horrors committed by this regime, we must get out of the way and begin to redeem ourselves by setting aside reparations that would be paid as negotiated milestones and conditions are met.

[stepnw1f]

98. Best Post in Days!!!! (nt)

[In Truth We Trust]

102. Don't raise my tax burden any fucking more. Tax the fucking rich!!!

[kimmerspixelated]

104. Right on!!!

[Imagevision]

107. Dems should povide enough war money to bring the troops home period!!

Kucinich has it right!!