A problem that I have with Gore is....

[thatsrightimirish]

his support for NAFTA and free trade. Does anyone know if he has addressed this issue recently? I know that there have been a lot of 08 threads and I'm sorry, but I really would like to find out where he stands today. Thanks!

[Jackpine Radical]

1. I think his stance puts labor into the mix in such a way

as to protect the interests of the international working class. IIRC he is quite explicit on this, and would no doubt also hold the position that the internationalists need to be internationally policed, since otherwise they can violate environmental laws with impunity.

[charlyvi]

3. I think NAFTA turned out far differently than he imagined.....

Originally, I think it was supposed to have worker and environmental protections. Of course, the corporations ignored all that in the race for dirt cheap labor, no benefits and no environmental regulation. Plenty of countries were willing to step up and give them what they wanted (Mexico and China for example).

[Warpy]

7. Those countries are beginning to realize what happens

when they allow corporate "persons" to shit pollution all over the place and they are not happy about it. Mexico is dealing with a sicker population and record birth defects while China is losing arable land, something they simply can't afford.

Expect to see Africa as the next hot area for the corporate "persons" to foul as the countries that first wooed US industries offshore start to enact environmental regs of their own.

[Lisa]

10. yes -- I know on the Canadian side, we expected that "trade court"

... would actually hand out reasonable decisions, and that countries would abide by them. The Council of Canadians was warning Mulroney's crew about this in the 1980s, and all those guys did was give us dumb looks when the softwood lumber case was being submitted (and re-submitted).

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Dr. Lisa, how ya doing?

Amazing, isn't it, how we keep expecting reasonable and fair behavior our of institutions that were set up to expedite the interests of the international corporations?

[Lisa]

15. just fine, thanks!

Anyway, it's pretty funny to see those NAFTA negotiators looking shocked (shocked, I tell you!) that it's not a level playing field after all!

[rman]

23. according to the free trade doctrine, worker and environmental protections

are "trade barriers"; bad for business, bad for profit.

NAFTA allows corporations to sue governments for loss of profit due to what are otherwise perfectly legitimate government regulations.
There's the case of Metalclad vs Mexico, precisely because of environmental regulations (no chemical dump on top of the water supply) - Metalclad won the NAFTA court case and got several million in compensation from the Mexican govt.

These kind of cases is why some people say corporations already are more powerful than nations.

[Skidmore]

27. It would be nice to hear him address this specifically though.

It would be nice to hear the entire party take a position on NAFTA and labor practices.

[Patchuli]

2. Here is a really good piece (I think anyway)

from Common Dreams. I adore Gore but I don't like NAFTA at all. I think he has some hard questions to answer should a run for the White House become an issue (I hope).

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0719-32.htm

[LWolf]

4. I would like to hear from him on this, as well.

I like Gore. I'd like to know how his positions on some issues have evolved since he left the WH. I'm not a fan of NAFTA/CAFTA, and would like to hear more from him about it.

[earth mom]

5. I'm wondering too how far Gore has evolved.

Does anyone know if he's still part of the DLC?

[johnaries]

6. He left the DLC behind long ago.

Although I sincerely wish that he had been allowed to take the office that he was elected to in 2000, in a way I think the denial of his rightful office was the best thing that could have happened to him, personally.

The Al Gore of 2006 is not the same Al Gore of 2000.

[DaveinMD]

8. sure he is

in 2000 his campaign theme was the people versus the powerful. A very populist message that almost overcame all the other mishaps.

[mattclearing]

12. It's still unclear whether he meant it.

Lieberman spent the next few days on the phones basically telling contributors, "He's just saying that." But that's Lieberman.

Personally, I like to believe that he meant it, but I don't know for sure. I like what he's done at Current, though.

[earth mom]

31. Glad to hear that!

Someone in another thread raked Gore over the coals about the DLC and said and that gave me pause because I don't like the DLC one iota.

I'm sorry and also embarrassed to say that I wasn't paying attention in 2000-because life had thrown my family several major curve balls that year and it was all I could do to handle those problems.

I like Gore a lot right now and I haven't even see an Inconvenient Truth yet! I'm sure that seeing it will only increase my already high esteem of him! :patriot:

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Trade has its problems but ultimately it is necessary and it is good, the key is implementation

Without trade almost everything we purchase would be more expensive. Trade benefits American consumers. What we need to do is set and enforce international labor and environmental standards. We also need to do much more adjustment and planning as far as re-training goes.

The number of jobs lost to outsourcing is a total of 2% of the total jobs lost in the US per year. The problem is that this 2% lost destroys entire communities that were dependent upon one industry. I'm all for trade but I think that when we sign these agreements we need to have long term plans to bring new businesses to these communities that are harmed and to re-train workers so that they are employable by these businesses. The fatal flaw in these trade agreements, in my opinion, is planning. Also the fact is that the GOP could care less about workers and so they don't plan.

[PsN2Wind]

18. Oh Yeah, Sure

This country was just in terrible shape back when most of what we consumed was manufactured here. No middle class to speak of, but we'll make up for it by all taking in each others laundry.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

19. Theory of Comparative Advantage anyone?

What we really need to do is reimplement the The Smoot-Hawley Tariff's again, that did wonders for middle class America.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Where was the computer you are using assembled?

Mine is from Malaysia. Had it been made in the United States it would be slower and far more expensive. How about the clothes you are wearing. They are cheaper and of better quality because other countries are more efficient at making clothes than the United States is.

Yes we can re-write policy to take us back to the 1950's when we manufactured everything ourselves. But that also means that we will only be able to buy as many goods as we could in the 1950's and that was far less. People had one television in the family room because they were expensive and they broke all of the time. Unless you want the latest flat screen, TVs today are inexpensive and work fairly well because Japan is better at making TVs than we are. There's a nearly endless list of things we wouldn't have today if we never embraced trade.

Trade allows us to specialize and for consumers to have more of what they want. Other countries are simply more efficient at manufacturing than we are. I'm perfectly willing to pay more for my clothes so that workers in these countries can have labor standards and so that companies will adhere to environmental standards. But I'm not willing to pay more so that we can protect the tiny percentage of jobs that actually get outsourced every year.

Trade is not the enemy of the middle class. Yes, SOME middle class workers are hurt by trade when we don't counter the negative effects. Not surprisingly this happens when Republicans make the rules. Republicans have also worked to destroy unions, lower wages, dismantle the social safety net and many other factors that have contributed to weakening the middle class. These are the key differences between now and the days when we had a much stronger middle class. Trade is not the key difference.

This being said, I'm a proponent of holding off on trade until trade agreements place a greater emphasis on re-training and setting labor standards in other countries. Our priorities need to be examined and things need to be done in moderation.

[rman]

22. The problem isn't with trade as such,

the problem is with the scam that is called "free trade" - trade agreements favorable to the corporations that staff the institutions that create those agreements, at the expense of the local economy and the local population.

We could very well trade without exploiting the poor countries we trade with.
The fact that your computer was made in one of those exploited countries changes nothing about this.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. We agree pretty much

I want trade agreements to be written such that workers in Malaysia that make my computer are entitled to fair labor practices and allowed to unionize and earn a living wage. I think that human rights need to be a top priority when negotiating any trade agreements.

[rman]

26. Why did you frame the issue as being "trade" as opposed

to the scam that is so-called "free trade"?
Given that OP is about the scam, not about trade as such.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Because some who oppose NAFTA do it because they oppose trade period

[rman]

29. I doubt that, and it's certainly not true for this thread.

[tabasco]

11. I question Al Gore's judgment in his campaign.

It's all 20/20 hindsight but Gore really thought he needed a sanctimonious asshole on the ticket because of Clinton's blowjob.

(Memo to Al Gore: Clinton remained very popular among the people during the height of the bogus impeachment.)

[bbernardini]

13. ....his wife.

I can NEVER forgive her for the PMRC. EVER. On the other hand, any organization that is able to bring together Frank Zappa, Dee Snider and John Denver against it can't be all bad. ;)

[ruggerson]

16. ... his personality

n/t

[Rosco T.]

21. Bullshit.

You been watching the man the past 6 years? (and before the campaign) he got bad advice and muffled his personality.

[rman]

30. that's so 1999

And a RW talking point too - so it's probably made up, just for the purpose of smearing.

[cynatnite]

17. A lot of dems supported NAFTA...

including Bill Clinton. I gave up trying to find any dems on who I agreed with on EVERYTHING.

The reason: They don't exist.

[madokie]

24. I don't really want a person I can agree with all the time

I want someone that makes me stop and think, do the occassional turnaround, a person who sees things from a different perspective from me.

[RestoreGore]

32. Oh yes, this is SO much more important than the climate crisis

Especially when he has stated at least ten thousand times already that he has no intention of running. Now I know why.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. A lot of Dems voted for it. Here's a list of senators.

Grouped By Vote Position

YEAs ---61

Baucus (D-MT)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Boren (D-OK)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brown (R-CO)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Danforth (R-MO)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeConcini (D-AZ)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dole (R-KS)
Domenici (R-NM)
Durenberger (R-MN)
Gorton (R-WA)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
Mathews (D-TN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mitchell (D-ME)
Moseley-Braun (D-IL)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nickles (R-OK)
Nunn (D-GA)
Packwood (R-OR)
Pell (D-RI)
Pressler (R-SD)
Pryor (D-AR)
Robb (D-VA)
Roth (R-DE)
Simon (D-IL)
Simpson (R-WY)
Specter (R-PA)
Wallop (R-WY)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---38

Akaka (D-HI)
Boxer (D-CA)
Bryan (D-NV)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (D-CO)
Cohen (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Exon (D-NE)
Faircloth (R-NC)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Ford (D-KY)
Glenn (D-OH)
Heflin (D-AL)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kempthorne (R-ID)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)
Metzenbaum (D-OH)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Reid (D-NV)
Riegle (D-MI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Sasser (D-TN)
Shelby (D-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wofford (D-PA)

Not Voting - 1
Dorgan (D-ND)