clearly this is bullshit.

[Bhaisahab]

i refuse to believe conservatives are more generous than those with liberal, inclusive views. so how is this author dude claiming otherwise?

==========
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/11/who_really_cares.html
<SNIP>
One of the most pervasive political visions of our time is the vision of liberals as compassionate and conservatives as less caring. It is liberals who advocate "forgiveness" of loans to Third World countries, a "living wage" for the poor and a "safety net" for all.

But these are all government policies -- not individual acts of compassion -- and the actual empirical consequences of such policies are of remarkably little interest to those who advocate them. Depending on what those consequences are, there may be good reasons to oppose them, so being for or against these policies may tell us nothing about who is compassionate or caring and who is not.

A new book, titled "Who Really Cares" by Arthur C. Brooks examines the actual behavior of liberals and conservatives when it comes to donating their own time, money, or blood for the benefit of others. It is remarkable that beliefs on this subject should have become conventional, if not set in concrete, for decades before anyone bothered to check these beliefs against facts.

What are those facts?

People who identify themselves as conservatives donate money to charity more often than people who identify themselves as liberals. They donate more money and a higher percentage of their incomes.

<SNIP>
more at link above...

[MonkeyFunk]

1. I think this has always been true...

but remember, they count churches as "charities".

[China_cat]

8. Not just churches

Museums, art galleries (the public ones) and other things that do not benefit people directly. I'd hate to see these things go, of course, but using donations to them as evidence of 'compassion' is bullshit.

My donation to the symphony will be considered as much a 'charity' donation as the one I make to the homeless shelter. And, if I claimed them (which I don't because I don't consider it giving if you get it back) BOTH would give me the same tax deduction.

[papau]

10. not Bull -but I believe you are correct that the mimi tithe (2%) is the usual liberal church

contribution based on the state doing most of the hospital and welfare work the Church did in the old days.

Many cultural values GOP give a full tithe (10% of all income) to the church -

at least that is what seems to be claimed and what seems to show up as claimed on IRS summaries of charitable giving.

[Downtown Hound]

2. As someone who has been homeless and worked with the homeless

I can tell you that I have never seen a single Republican volunteer his or her time or money to help. NOT ONE. Every one who ever donated or volunteered was a liberal.

This article is complete and utter bullshit.

[DocSavage]

14. No, I will venture that your

statement is BS. I come from a big familiy of very conservative folks, and did 20 years in the military with lots of republicans. I can tell you for a fact that there was a lot of volunteer work and money donated by these folks.

Maybe all the republican volunteers just did thier job and kept thier political leanings to themselves.

Your statement is the same as republicans calling democrats long hair hippy peace activists that have never done anything to defend this country.

[Downtown Hound]

18. You weren't there

You didn't go through what I went through. You didn't meet the people I met. You didn't have the same conversations I had with them. You didn't experience what I experienced. You have no idea what you're talking about.

So shut the fuck up.

[DocSavage]

22. I guess

that you were the ONLY homeless hungry person in a 100% liberal neighbohood. Because in the real world, you story smells. So you shut the fuck up. Seeing that you seem to discount anyone with another poit of view.

[Downtown Hound]

23. "You story smells."

"Poit of view."

Wow, you're a genius.

[DocSavage]

24. I am not the one

that claimed NO CONSERVATIVES were involved when you were homeless or working with charities. When I do volunteer work I never discuss my political affiliation. I have ideas of others, but it does not come up. With all the smily faces that you can put on a message, I am suprised no one has come out with a BS flag.

[Downtown Hound]

25. Amazing how you seem to know everything about my situation

when you weren't even there. For your information, I did in fact know every volunteer personally and what their political affiliations were, and they were all liberal. I also knew many volunteers at other agencies, and I can safely say that the overwhelming majority if not all of them were liberal. I really don't care if you believe that or not, because the more I talk to you, the more I realize how totally not worth my time or effort you are.

I can also tell you that our organization was viciously attacked by conservatives who tried to shut us down, because they didn't like the idea of homeless people being housed in their neighborhoods. "Undesirables" was what they called us. It got to the point where they began to vandalize our house even. It was a transitional house that I lived in until I was able to find more permanent housing, if you're wondering what I was doing in a house when I was homeless.

So I've seen plenty of examples of compassionate conservatism in action in contrast to liberal compassion. And I really don't need a jackass like you lecturing me on what kind of people were there and what in fact happened. I was there, I saw what happened, I lived through it. You were no where near it, so why don't you just give up your delusions about what you think went on? Those were some of the hardest times of my life. Yet I got through them and am now a full time carpenter making good money. No thanks to any of the conservatives I met during that time. If they had had their way I wouldn't be where I am now.

So I'll say it again, you weren't there, you don't know what happened, you have no idea what you're talking about. So, shut the fuck up. And now I'm done with you. You're a complete idiot. And in almost three years on DU, you're the first person that's ever gone on my ignore list.

[DocSavage]

30. Outstanding

In other words, when you are unable to defend the blanket asshat statement that started this discussion, you solve the problem by putting people on ignore. I will say it again and again, your situation as you described it is not the norm in any other community in the country. Therefore, I will go with the stats that say your original statement was wrong, you refuse to acknowledge it.

Here is a question. As a business person, do you refuse to do business with conservatives because of the "way you were treated and how mean they are" or do you willingly take their business and money?

[Downtown Hound]

33. What the fuck does your question have to do with anything you asshat?

That has to be one of the most pathetic attempts at shifting the conversation that I've ever seen. By your argument, a black person should never take a white man's business because of how badly they have been treated, or a gay person should never take a straight person's business because of how badly they have been treated. Never mind the fact that their livelihoods depend on getting as much business as they can. I guess I should just not take their business and go back to being homeless, because according to you, Republicans are lining up in droves to help me out.

As a business person, you're not entitled to pick and choose based on politics. I keep my politics out of my business. That's the cost of doing business. In my business, I often don't know what the politics are of my clients and don't ask. Quite unlike the many volunteers I have worked with. Although that has nothing to do with what started this conversation, and I can't even believe that you brought that up or think that it has any bearing on what we're talking about. You have got to be one of the biggest morons I've ever encountered on this website.

And as for my story being the exception and not the norm, this did in fact take place in a predominately liberal city, but enough conservatives lived there to where if they really were interested in volunteering or helping out, I would have encountered more than a few of them and the ratio would have been proportionate. I never did and it wasn't. As for the stats that you quote, my whole point was that they are bullshit and come from biased sources, and I used my own personal experience to back that up, and there is nothing wrong with that. Read some of the other posts on this thread to see what I mean. This study was done by some whack job fundies and that smarmy ass Stossel and posted on a right wing site. Oh well, I guess it's totally credible then. Please.

I can tell you that taxes from the blue states are constantly going to pay for the red states because all the Republicans there don't want to pay their own fair share so they mooch off of us, and that's not not bullshit. Tell me, were those figures factored into this story? I guess according to this story, it's okay to include donations to political churches as charity but not taxes that actually go towards infrastructure. If more Republicans would pay their taxes, their might not be such a need for charity. I've already spent more time on you than you're worth so I'm not going to bother looking it up and providing you with links for that. Look it up yourself.

And now I really am done with you. I briefly took you off ignore just to see what your latest example of verbal diarrhea was, and I couldn't believe what you actually posted so I responded. Now you're going back on. Bye bye. Go piss in the wind someplace else. Me thinks you don't really belong on DU anyway, and at some point you'll be going bye bye permanently.

[meganmonkey]

17. As someone who currently works for a hunger relief organization

which uses approx 4,000 volunteers yearly, I think you must live on an island with no conservatives on it or something, because to make such an absolute statement is over the top.

We have board members who are conservative and who give more time or money than anyone would expect. We have literally hundreds of consistent, reliable volunteers and donors who are openly conservative (ie bumper stickers) and goodness knows how many who never broach politics openly. Dozens of conservative churches and other organizations do regular fundraising and food drives for us. Many of them run direct distribution programs as well.


Your statement is patently absurd, unless you did a background check on everyone and looked up their voting records how can you possibly make such a claim? Did you give everyone you have ever met in that context a questionnaire while hooked up to a lie detector?

:crazy:

[Downtown Hound]

19. Read post number 18

The same message applies to you.

[meganmonkey]

21. Thanks for clearing that up

:rofl:

[Downtown Hound]

27. Read post number 25

if you really want me to clear things up. Although I really don't feel that I owe you or anyone else an explanation.

[Gwerlain]

3. Oh, you mean like...

all those rich bastards figuring out how not to have to pay any income tax? So they're giving all my tax money to jebus. Lovely. :sarcasm:

[Richard Steele]

4. Yes it is. Other DUers are better than I at explaining WHY that is....

...so I shall leave this thread to their very capable ministrations.

[walldude]

5. Oh please, they really want us to believe that whole

"trickle down" theory. Make the rich richer and they'll pass it on down to the poor. Gimme a break. This is how they donate money. Barbara Bush gives $40,000 dollars to help victims of Katrina. The stipulation is that the 40 g's goes to Neil's software company. Yeah what a generous lot they are :eyes:

[Mythsaje]

6. Aren't charitable donations tax deductible?

Doesn't that translate into MAKING THE GOVERNMENT PAY FOR IT ANYWAY?

Or am I just losing it?

[flyingfysh]

7. they are counting churches as charities

So fundamentalists who tithe to their churches are throwing off the statistics.

[magellan]

28. Exactly

There was an article in a recent Scientific American about this. (I think it was SciAm) Religious tithing accounts for why conservatives are considered more charitable in raw dollars. But without liberals, non-faith-based charities and organizations wouldn't be able to do all the good work they do.

[Stephanie]

29. Precisely - just what I was going to say.

That's exactly what it is.

[EST]

9. Sowell is a black republican.

Similar to a Jewish Nazi.
He's nuts.

[zbdent]

11. Maybe because liberals are likely to give to charities (especially legit ones)

just for the sake of trying to do some good, whereas most "conservatives" usually give to charities (esp. ones that are purely there for RW causes, or "fronts" for "charitable organizations") only to the point where it makes a difference on their tax return ... and once they reach the minimum donation for the maximum tax relief, they stop ...

[Robbien]

12. You do realize the RealClearPolitics is a rabid right wing source?

Just being linked to that site makes me want to give DU a good scrub down.

[nuxvomica]

13. I'd really like to see the breakdown

If you ignore donations to religious groups, conservatives may not give so much. The same could probably be said about environmental groups and liberals. Even if conservatives give more than liberals for purely humanitarian causes, the issue is beside the point. No charity can have nearly the same positive effect as progressive government policies and investments. What's the point of giving to a soup kitchen if I turn around and vote for someone whose agenda is to increase the number of people who need to visit that soup kitchen?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Conservatives do it for the tax write off.

As if conservatives really gave a shit about people.

:eyes:

[DocSavage]

16. I take the deduction too.

Matter of fact I take every legal deduction that I can. Don't know too many people with money that just give it away because.

[SoCalDem]

20. Key words are "identify themselves"

Truly generous people often do not "identify themselves"..

the rich person who puts a $50 in the collection box and tells everyone, or makes sure they see it, is not as generous as the struggling single mom who puts in a $5

[etherealtruth]

31. You have just identified ...

"True generosity"

[riderinthestorm]

26. Rethugs are liars. Why does anyone believe they wouldn't lie about their charity?

What objective criteria do they measure? How can they definitively state this?

They can't.

Rethugs are notorious shysters and liars. I live in an area full of them and work with my local food pantry on food drives - our resource center should be overflowing with donations, time, energy and volunteers. Uhm, guess what? No way! We are pushed to the limit to meet the demand on the center's resources in this affluent, rethug community.

This is more rethug spin imho.

[KharmaTrain]

32. I'm Considered A "Conservative"...

As one involved in a little investing, I regularly get questionaires about my spending and saving preferences. Since I don't like risky investments for lower rate safer ones, I'm considered "Conservative". I get a feeling Stoessel got info from these profiles and saw the "Conservative" tag on many of these type of statistics and "assumed". Many Democrats I know think and invest the same way. If anything, the high rollers tend to be the Repugnicans...the day traders who keep pushing for their big cuts in capital gains, inheritance taxes and forcing the burden of the tax load to be put on the middle class.