argh -- cousin trapped in mortgage is talking to National Guard recruiters

[grasswire]

A 42-year-old cousin, trapped in a variable rate mortgage, is talking to Guard recruiters about re-upping in the NG. They are promising him $15,000 up front and a masters degree. He says things are "changing" in Iraq, for the better. I said yeah, more people are dying.

He has two young daughters. He lives in rural Maine and recently lost his job. His wife works a pretty good job, but the variable rate mortgage is going to hurt them in a big hurry.

What can I say to convince him that the risk isn't worth the money?

[LonelyLRLiberal]

1. He just needs to sell the house, eat the loss and keep his life.

He can eventually recoup the money, but his family deserve to have him around.

[grasswire]

4. yeah, I know that's the remedy, but I don't think they'll do it.

The house was built for them. It's their pride and joy and they have big plans for the property including buying the farm next door.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Besides, to sell you need a buyer.

And the market is very weak, and getting weaker all the time.

The housing bubble that kept *'s economy "booming" is losing air fast, and a lot of people are going to be hurt in the next year.

[gkhouston]

17. Is saving their dream house really more important

than risking his life, his physical health, his mental health, and breaking up his family? He's lying to himself if he thinks he won't be sent or if he thinks the experience won't change him. Is that really worth saving a house he probably won't ever enjoy again, even if he lives there again? This is assuming the bonus comes through in a way that will save the mortgage, which it may not.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

29. After reading other comments, foreclosure would even be better than the military.

People get too scared when money is an issue. This guy is actually considering risking his very life and considering irreparable damage to his family.

The question is "what is the worst thing that can happen?" for each option under consideration. To me, that makes the enlistment option an easy "NO WAY!" Doing nothing at all is better.

[Target_For_Exterm]

2. Ask him how the wife would pay the mortgage if he gets

killed in Iraq. Ask him what would happen to his daughters.

[gkhouston]

worse yet, what if he comes back severely disabled and his wife has

to quit her job to take care of him? What happens to his family then? Won't he do better by his family if they're together and his mind and body are whole?

[uppityperson]

25. and how much will they pay him while in Iraq?

enough to keep up with the variable mortgage?

[Sapere aude]

3. How much money would you take to go to Iraq and fight?

$15,000 seems a little small for putting your life on the line with a good chance of coming back unable to make a living again or even dead or not coming back at all.

I guess his life isn't worth over $15,000 to him. If he got maimed by a drunk driver he would probably ask for millions. Getting maimed for $15,000? Nah not me.

[John Gauger]

5. Tell him about the 200 people

who were killed on Thursday. Tell him about the tortured bodies they find every day. Tell him about the civil war. Show him the video on the DU front page.

[quiet.american]

6. I wonder if there's anything you can say to change his mind.

I mean, isn't he exposed to the news just like the rest of us? He must know the recruiters are B.S.-ing him.

[grasswire]

10. sure

I mentioned that recruiters are lying to try to meet their quotas. He said he had dealt with them before and knows what they do.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Talk about living on the edge!

[mzmolly]

8. Tell him to refi at a fixed rate

he'll probably save loads more than 15K over the course of the loan.

[grasswire]

14. apparently the fact that he lost his job two weeks ago...

...will be a problem for refinancing. The pressure is on.

[mzmolly]

19. I assume he'll find another related job soon? He can file bankruptcy and save

his mortgage if he's in a serious bind at some point, no? Joining the guard seems extreme. Send him the youtube video here > http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=7588&mesg_id=7588

I'd also ask him why he thinks things are getting better in Iraq? That's absurd as you know. I wonder if the recruiters told him that?

[uppityperson]

27. depends on how much equity they have.

talk with a mortgage broker, don't assume anything.

[slackmaster]

35. OP says his wife has a good job

I would not completely discount the possibility of a refinance.

It costs nothing to apply.

[EFerrari]

9. It's easier to refinance than to reincarnate. n/t

[warrens]

11. Does he realize they'll send him almost immediately?

They're DESPERATE for warm bodies there.

If he knows that, it's his decision to make. No matter what, we're going to be there for another year (immediate withdrawal is hardly immediate...it will take them six months just to pack). Someone has to be there. I feel for someone who has to make that choice.

[grasswire]

12. yeah, and his special training is water purification

He'll go if he signs. I know it.

[atreides1]

21. If that's his specialty

And he needs a job, tell him to check with KBR, he'll deal with the same risks but at least the pay will be better.

[cally]

13. We once renegotiated a mortgage

the house had lost 25 percent of it's value. We looked into walking away and defaulting on the loan. I don't remember all the details but we ended up selling the house and had to pay the buyers at closing. We did end up with a 15 percent credit back from the loan company because we chose to not default on the loan. My point is that these loans are negotiable. Lenders are in a bad position right now because too many can't make payments. They are more willing, when pressured, to renegotiate loans.

[iconoclastic cat]

22. Seriously, this guy needs to talk to someone who knows the system.

Is there any way the OP could hook the guy up with an expert?

[grizmaster]

15. Ask him, do his kids need their father or a house more

rural Maine is a tough nut to crack for work. Since he's already considering being away from home for long periods of time in Iraq, tell him to consider working in Boston or somewhere else relatively nearby where jobs are easier to find and wages are better until they get back on their feet with the mortgage.

[Demobrat]

18. Why is he trapped? Why can't he refinance?

Going to Iraq is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. Permanent - because the chances of him coming back completely unscathed are zero. There must be a better way.

[wicket]

20. I was wondering that, then saw upthread that he lost his job

My what a tough spot :(

[Jacobin]

23. Does he understand that recruiters LIE THEIR ASSES OFF?

If he does understand that, then he may just want to get the hell out of dodge to avoid the unpleasantness of unemployment/foreclosure, etc.

[noamnety]

24. I'm linking a post I made in a different thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=990783&mesg_id=996050

[grasswire]

26. thanks

good material there

[NNN0LHI]

28. Tell him there are better options than killing Iraqis to help his financial situation

A lot better options.

I wouldn't want no Iraqis coming over here to kill Americans for financial gain either.

Don

[grasswire]

32. that actually might influence him

Hmmm --- the "moral high ground" argument might work.

What is the real cost of your signing bonus, Jeff? How many dead Iraqis are worth $15,000? Is it moral for an American to agree to kill Iraqis in order to preserve a dream home?

Thanks. I'll try it.

[yellowcanine]

30. Tell him to train as a big rig truck driver. It is a good job, pays well,

and the trucking companies are looking for drivers. And he will see his family a lot more than if he is deployed to Iraq.

[slackmaster]

31. Offer to lend him the $15K and babysit his daughters while he's in school

If you can.

[grasswire]

34. not an option

Well, the babysitting could work if I didn't live 3,000 miles from him. Lending the money? Not possible and never will be.

[sweetheart]

33. social security needs fewer old people

He's doing a noble service by departing iraq in one piece.

They want to kill him, as that is what their culture is about.

He will survive them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

36. How Is He 'Trapped' In The Mortgage?

Do you have the details on it?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

Well I'd imagine he owes the money either way. Even if he sells at a loss, he will still

owe what they bought the house for.

Aside from that I guess they are only "trapped" to the degree that they are "trapped" in their concept of how they have to live.

[grasswire]

42. yes, of course you are right

And so I guess we will ultimately see what he and his wife value most.

I'm sure that he is guessing that he could beat the odds of injury or death and is rationalizing from that point of view.

But I think if I put it the way another poster suggested -- asking if it is moral to kill Iraqis to preserve their standard of living -- that might shake him up.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. Didn't Answer My Question. I Don't See How He's Trapped. Why Can't He Refinance?

What is it about the mortgage that makes him 'trapped'?

[grasswire]

49. recently lost his job

He doesn't think he'll qualify for refinancing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. You Said His Wife Has A Good Job.

Can you see if you can find out more details such as principle owed, current rate and estimated property value?

I haven't seen any reason yet to believe he's in fact trapped in his mortgage, or at least to a degree that warrants his proposed action.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

37. If he has to rely on a re-enlistment bonus to cover the ramp-up of an adjustable rate mortgage, they

have got a lot of problems...

Would they have been easily able to afford the ramp up had he kept his old job? If they couldn't, or could only barely get by, they had a precarious situation that couldn't tolerate one critical incident like him getting fired. If their solution to "keep up their dream" or "standard of living" is for him to go to Iraq, it doesn't seem like a good solution to me.

Like the others, I'd suggest that his life, limbs, brain function, are more important than the "dream home". His kids having a dad around as they grow up.

If they won't let themselves see that truth, there's nothing more that you can do to help them.

[dogday]

38. Tell him to try getting through one day without the

use of either his arms or legs....

[sarcasmo]

39. Lies all Lies. Make sure he has a lawyer go over the contract.

The Military contract that always lies in the fine print.

[Lex]

40. His daughters need their DAD more than they need a certain house.

Sell the property, move into a cheaper place until he gets his finances worked out.

The financial strain is temporary.

Dead is forever.

[seriousstan]

41. He has already proven his stupidity by taking a VRM, why would he change now?

[grasswire]

43. yes, excellent point

Too many people are in over their heads these days. Why should Iraqis pay?

[Vinca]

44. Don't income taxes have to be paid on the $15,000?

That means, depending on their tax bracket, it's not really $15,000. Doesn't he have anything he can sell to raise some money instead? A second car? Motorcycle? Anything? It's getting worse over there and not worth the risk of the kids not having a dad or the wife ending up tending an invalid husband. In addition, there's a big difference - physically - between a 20 year old and a 42 year old. Tell the guy he's approaching geezerhood and this is not a good idea.

[pitohui]

46. tell the guy he's approaching geezerhood?

how the heck will that help? he probably already knows his chance of getting another decent job at age 42 is not very great, i'm sure he is well aware of the reality of age discrimination

all telling him he's a geezer will do is force him to conclude he has no other option but to re-up -- assuming they'll have him at his advanced age

[Vinca]

47. That was tongue in cheek.

42 is young, but if this guy can be convinced he can't compete with 20 year olds, maybe he'll regain his senses.

[valerief]

48. He needs to speak with a vet who's between Iraq tours for the truth. nt