Jonathan Alter just said on Olbermann that Kerry is "through"

[CatWoman]

as a presidential candidate.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with him.

such a shame. I really, really like Kerry.

[NMDemDist2]

1. yeah Cat, it is a shame but it's true I fear n/t

[blm]

13. It's a pile of shit and Alter is a lousy reporter. A McCain bootlicker who spreads lies

for McCain, like that Kerry asked him to be VP.

You all are so BLIND if you think this media assassination is going to stick - it didn't EVERY TIME THEY DID IT BEFORE.

Why so many of you SIDE with the corpmedia when all they are doing is TRYING to ruin Kerry in the eyes of even Democrats because he will be heading the NET NEUTRALITY ISSUE and corpmedia wants it to go AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE US - so they marginalize Kerry's voice and too many FALL for it.

They can only marginalize his voice id Democrats LET them do it.

You people really cry about Bobby being taken down by a bullet and then turn and fret about a takedown for a dropped PRONOUN, fer chrissakes?

Where is the SPINE from Democrats who worry about media LIES? We all defended Clinton even from the TRUTH about his dropped pants for years, but drop Kerry for a dropped PRONOUN?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. If Jonathan Alter Is A MSM Stooge Why Did He Write A Book Lionizing FDR?

http://www.amazon.com/Defining-Moment-FDRs-Hundred-Triumph/dp/0743246004/sr=1-1/qid=1164766872/ref=sr_1_1/103-3305982-4415044?ie=UTF8&s=books

[blm]

54. He lionizes McCain in current time.

.

[NYCGirl]

61. Show me where he "lionized" McCain, please. NT

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. I Try To Avoid These Debates But Jonathan Alter In Not The Enemy.

I have seen him pillory Bu$h and get pilloried for doing so...

[NYCGirl]

69. I agree. I like Alter very much. NT

[Bucky]

75. Whenever any reporter criticizes a Dem, count on someone on DU to call them a BFEE whore

May favorite was a few years ago when some feeb actually denounced Josh Marshall (TPM) of being a right wing shill. Skinner personally had the pleasure of putting that poster in his place. The cool think about the internet is that ANYONE can post.

[blm]

80. He was doing it in 1999 and again recently - do you believe MediaMatters?

And this isn't the first time - it's been consistent. Daily Howler has tracked it, too.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200607240009

[NYCGirl]

82. Then why do his columns talk about the "old McCain" vs. the "new McCain"

who he doesn't like very much?

But I guess if he doesn't think Kerry is the sun and moon, he's BAAAAADDD!

[blm]

87. He is still a fan - and MediaMatters and Howler have nailed him a few times.

He is a poor reporter who repeats rumor as fact too often - But, I won't mock anyone who sees him another way.

[WCGreen]

78. Kerry has done enough to tarnish his own image...

[blm]

79. Dropping pronouns in a jokeline is grounds for image tarnishing? Feign-Feign.

Couldn't possibly be that media is still piling on Kerry because they need his voice muted publically when he takes on net neutrality issue and media expansion come January, could it?

Nah...that would be noticing that there are problems with corporate media.

[NYCGirl]

83. They're still piling on Kerry because it's like beating up the kid in the

schoolyard who doesn't know how to punch back. It's easy.

[blm]

89. If that were actually true, he'd be ignored completely instead of the piling on they do.

They ignore many Dems who speak out against BushInc - why pile on Kerry to the degree that they do?

They do the same to Gore and Carter and I never found it amusing or honet - but they don't stop doing it - why?

[WCGreen]

90. That's the least of it....

He stood by and let the Bush people beat the shit out of him at every turn in the 2004 election...

He wouldn't stand up for himself, or his wife for that matter...

That is what tarnished his reputation in my mind...

Beside, the only reason he won the nomination in the first place was because when the process started in 2003, Bush had an approval rating in the low 90's...

[blm]

92. The DNC did a GREAT job of matching the RNC tactics, didn't they?

If you are interested in facts, then you'll check the research forum where Kerry's counters show he fought back sufficiently but media refused to air his counters.

Much of it is detailed in the DU research forum. Did you know he called Bush out for hiding behind the swifts and challenged Bush to debate their activities during Vietnam? Most have never even heard about it - media refused to air it.

[WCGreen]

99. Then he should have put out a commercial...

Saying the President was too afraid to debate their records in Vietnam...

He would have one...

Fuck, don't blame the media for his shortcomings...

He's too nice, to erudite to go toe to toe...

[blm]

103. Do you think that media would've aired the challenge if roles were reversed?

You KNOW they would have.

And BECAUSE we all know they would have, the newsmedia IS to blame.

That protestor set himself on FIRE in rush hour traffic in Chicago - had it been a RW act of protest against abortion or something it would be the top story for weeks.

[WCGreen]

104. Yea, that's my point....

We know the media has a bias...

So we have to work around it...

Kerry should have runa commercial...

[blm]

14. It's a pile of shit and Alter is a lousy reporter. A McCain bootlicker who spreads lies

for McCain, like that Kerry asked him to be VP.

You all are so BLIND if you think this media assassination is going to stick - it didn't EVERY TIME THEY DID IT BEFORE.

Why so many of you SIDE with the corpmedia when all they are doing is TRYING to ruin Kerry in the eyes of even Democrats because he will be heading the NET NEUTRALITY ISSUE and corpmedia wants it to go AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE US - so they marginalize Kerry's voice and too many FALL for it.

They can only marginalize his voice id Democrats LET them do it.

You people really cry about Bobby being taken down by a bullet and then turn and fret about a takedown for a dropped PRONOUN, fer chrissakes?

Where is the SPINE from Democrats who worry about media LIES? We all defended Clinton even from the TRUTH about his dropped pants for years, but drop Kerry for a dropped PRONOUN?

[Name removed]

Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

77. So the media launchs a full-on assault

at the direction of the White House, then takes a poll that measures the effectiveness of their assault - then uses that poll to put the final nail in the coffin -

And supposedly savvy media Democratic netroot activists - BELIEVE IT???


:argh:

[terip64]

2. I'm not counting him out just yet. A lot can happen and he wants in. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

3. Kerry was 30 points behind in Iowa and won the primary. Joe Trippi says don't count him out.

[Gato Moteado]

4. if he could only remember the punchlines to his jokes.....

...then he would make a viable candidate.

i'm afraid his career as a comedian will be limited to opening up for michael richards at the laff stop.

[ecstatic]

10. OMG... harsh

but funny in a way... :rofl:

[MS Liberal]

5. No Way

Just because he said it does not make it so. Kerry would have been so much better than the idiot-in-chief we have now.

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. He's done. He gave it a good run, but not quite good enough.

The swiftboating that went unanswered and the lame joke that came up short would be back to haunt him if he ran again.

He's my senator, but I think any chance for a ticket to the WH is over.

[BlueStater]

9. I don't think he would have apologized...

...if his fellow Democrats, always one step behind, hadn't harrased him into it.

Hillary Clinton knew what he was talking about but, rather than stand beside him, used it as a cheap opportunity to knock a potential rival. Screw her.

[ruggerson]

7. Anyone who still thinks Kerry stands a chance

is utterly delusional.

[wisteria]

22. My feet are planted firmly on the ground, and I still support him and I think he has a chance.

Don't ever count him out.

[beachmom]

23. It's actually quite delusional to think ANYONE has a chance

since it's such a longshot to become president for anyone. Look, it's too far out to speculate on this sort of thing. I'd like to freeze this moment in time, then fast forward to the end of 2007 and see if this is the same chatter -- right now it seems to all be about Guiliani and Obama. They're not vetted yet, so it's WAY to early to know the future.

[mondo joe]

8. Now if only Kerry would figure that out. Maybe he needs to drive his motorcycle

up onto Jay Leno's set again.

:barf:

[blm]

18. Maybe Kerry needs to out the DEMOCRATS who cover up for BushInc.

.

[mondo joe]

21. Given his vote in support of Bush's war he's in not much of a place to do that.

[beachmom]

24. Given he's the only potential '08 candidate who has a PLAN

to get our troops OUT of Iraq by July '07, I'd say he's a threat to everyone else who wants to prolong the war -- and that includes ALL OTHER candidates mentioned.

[mondo joe]

26. He's not a real potential candidate. He's toast asking to be reheated.

[ProSense]

30. Actually he is, even though the pollsters are projecting other winners:

[Clark2008]

91. He's not the only one, actually.

There was one before him: Wes Clark's plan.

Now, Clark keeps tweeking it, depending on what it happening because a plan can't stay static as long as the events in which it effects aren't static.

But, I digress... Clark had a plan well before Kerry. And I'm not bad-mouthing Kerry, just making a point.

[blm]

29. Given he knows more about IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning and that Clinton

covered up for it all I'd say he's in a great position to do that.

[mondo joe]

31. Even if he were the best guy on the planet, he is a lousy candidate.

You might as well accept it.

[blm]

65. He was a fine candidate with a weakass DNC running targetted state strategy.

that had proven to be not working in 2000 and 2002 and only managed to COLLAPSE party infrastructures in too many states.

The DNC's collapsed party infrastructures couldn't get the votes Gore or Kerry earned counted.

[mondo joe]

70. Baloney. If the best he could do against BUSH was what he did, he's a waste

of time.

[blm]

71. Yeah - no difference between Dean's DNC and McAuliffe's DNC - none at all.

Dean didn't have to lift a finger for two years, Terry had a great startegy in place with strong party infrastructure he had built uo his entire 4 years there.

[WinkyDink]

81. No, he wasn't. We will not give Kerry another go-round. Gore, maybe.

It takes more than brilliance and decency to become President, and perhaps that is more's the pity.

[Straight Shooter]

11. Kerry needs to run on his true strengths. I wouldn't count him out.

You never know what will happen in the next year or so. I think Alter is premature in his assessment.

The Swiftboat Liars did a tremendous amount of damage. May they all come down with painful boils in nether regions.

[Nite Owl]

12. I think so too and I really

admire him. He's a good man and could do alot for the country but it's over. Hope I am wrong on this one though.

[Catherine Vincent]

15. Yeah.

I think this country prefers chimps that can't talk as their president.

[napingo]

16. I think his thinking is very, very flawed. With the money he has, there is NO

good reason for not spending some of it on a PR firm to burnish his image and make him seem "just like a real Democrat" (as opposed to seeming more like a Republican in Drag).

[blm]

19. Spoken like someone who never read the IranContra, BCCI or CIA drugrunning reports

.

[ProSense]

17. Gingrich said it too!

Strange, he's still thinking about running.

If Kerry is "through," what happens if he runs simply because Romney, Gingrich, Giuliani and McCain still believe they have a shot?

I smell BS!

[LittleClarkie]

37. Why isn't Gengrich through?

I can't believe he just said we'd have to think about the freedom of speech. We're going to get so far away from what this country stands for that it won't be recognizable anymore.

[Bake]

94. Gingrich IS through. He just doesn't want to admit it.

He has no chance of getting the GOP nom. Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much baggage.

Bake

[aquart]

56. Hard to miss the aroma.

Why would that scummy bunch want to run against a man who actually won an election to the Presidency?

[Island Blue]

20. I know I always rely on television pundits to pick my candidates for me.

:crazy: Frees my brain from having to think.

[Alexander]

25. He's a good public servant, but can't give people good reasons to vote FOR him.

He won Iowa largely because of the Dean/Gephardt/Clark fight-turned-implosion, not because of anything remarkable he did. And after the "Dean scream" which the corporate media replayed ad nauseum, Kerry gained the most momentum.

In 2004, just about everybody I spoke with told me they were voting for Kerry not because he was a great Senator, but because Bush sucked so much. Only political junkies know about his role with net neutrality, Iran-Contra, BCCI, etc. But it's not our job to figure this stuff out, it was Kerry's job to tell people what he did and why.

So Hairy Kerry's a good Senator but a horrible presidential candidate. Be prepared for a drubbing of McGovernesque proportions if he is nominated again.

[WildEyedLiberal]

28. I disagree

There are lots of good reasons to vote for him... the fact that he has more of a credible plan on Iraq than pretty much any other Dem candidate being chief among them.

That said, the 2008 season hasn't started yet. This is lame duck season, and once 2007 starts in earnest, I think you'll start hearing a lot more from Kerry, and all of them, about their visions for America. That said, he has presented several good ideas in speeches over the past year, but they were only covered by MA media.

[Alexander]

98. You can disagree all you want, but Kerry's the one who lost the 2004 election.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. If there were a lot of good reasons to vote for Kerry other than ABB, he would probably have won by a theft-proof majority.

To add to the list, he didn't contest or raise any questions about Ohio. Barbara Boxer did it all for him.

I keep bringing up the fact that Kerry didn't say a word about Iran-Contra or BCCI other than in one speech in September. Nothing during the convention, nothing during the debates. It was clear Bush was the more corrupt of the two, and Kerry likely would've driven an extra wedge into the Republican base if he had painted himself as the anti-corruption crusader - which would've been easy, given his history of uncovering corruption.

No Kerry supporters have created even a halfway decent counter-argument.

The fact that he didn't bring these things up, which are obvious bragging points, shows that he has rather poor campaigning abilities.

If Kerry's renominated again, I'll vote for him. But he didn't win 2004 (unless you can prove 3 million votes were stolen) and likely won't win 2008 if renominated.

[WildEyedLiberal]

27. The media also said that Bush would go down as a great president.

The media has been parroting whatever line its corporate masters want for over 6 years now. This is no different. Jonathan Alter is a token "Democrat" that the Newsweek/MSNBC whores trot out to prove they are "bipartisan," but he's been on the Hillary 2008 bandwagon since day one. That's his prerogative, but it is worthwhile to keep his agenda in mind - and the agendas of the whole lot of them - when listening to their tripe.

[hughee99]

32. I like Kerry (he's my Senator) but I think he's right.

Honestly, Kerry wasn't my first or second choice in the primaries. Once he got the nomination, I felt good about it, though, because I do like him, and I thought he would WHOOP *. I don't KNOW this, but I believe that a decent number of Democrats voted for him in primaries because they though he gave us the best chance to beat *. Having now run, I don't think he'll get the "best chance" votes the next time around.

[PaDem]

33. In a society where a leader is elected to lead and not to.........

entertain or make the sheep feel good about themselves, Kerry would do very well. Kerry's lack of traction speaks to so much of what is wrong with the political culture in America.

[Karenina]

35. In a society where a leader is elected to lead and

cut out the rot in the gub'mint, Kerry would do very well. There are a WHOLE LOTTA FOLKS on BOTH sides of the "divide" that want to ensure that Kerry, what HE knows and his ideas of how to deal with "it" NEVER see the light of day.

[wisteria]

34. Then you will be happy to know that Alter is actually wrong.

I would also add that he is a bit confused. He says the poll is ridiculous in regards to Guiliani and Obama, but claims that it is accurate in regards to Kerry. He can't have it both ways. It is either an accurate poll or it isn't. Alter need to make up his mind. He may wish Kerry were done, but that is his own thoughts and not based on any meanful data. This poor excuse of a poll doesn't mean a thing and it won't determine if Kerry runs or not.

[LittleClarkie]

36. Who's that, may I ask?

And how's his track record for making such pronouncements.

And finally, he was pronounced dead once in 2004 as well.

Time will tell.

[sniffa]

38. yay! bring out the kerry haters!!

*cLang* bring out your kerry haters!
*cLang* bring out your kerry haters!

[LittleClarkie]

39. I'm not a Kerry hater yet!

I feel happy! I feel happy!

[CatWoman]

45. one thing we need to clear up

I am NOT a Kerry hater.

I despise the way he has been treated by the press, and by his own party.

when that latest dust up occurred (the botched joke), Democrats fell over themselves to scramble to the mike to denounce him.

I cheered when he went off on the Republicans. I regret his apology.

Having said this, I still have mixed feelings about Election 2004, and him not putting up a fight I desperately prayed and waited for.

[LittleClarkie]

49. No, I didn't think you did. I'm just doing a Monty Python skit, myself

Wasn't thinking about the poster calling you a Kerry hater.

You're welcome to your opinion and I appreciate it being stated civilly. Others have not done so well in that regard.

But you'll forgive some of us if we've decided to go down with the ship, as it were. I'm hoping he can still rise from the ashes.

[CatWoman]

57. lol

nevermind

:)

[sniffa]

53. oh, i know you're not a kerry hater

and i didn't mean to impLy you were. that's meant for the kerry haters and the cLarkies. :yoiks:

[CatWoman]

58. !!

:hi:

[windbreeze]

74. about that message...??.

Are you implying that cLarkies ARE kerry haters????or am I misunderstanding???..
windbreeze..

[kster]

40. They do fear Kerry, don't they

how many fucked up statements has * made and not a peep out of these guys, but Kerry is "through" because he botched a joke, you don't seriously believe that do you?

Although Kerry and all the Dem's are truly "through" if they don't bust up these mega-entertainment-news organizations.

[Old and In the Way]

47. Fascinating, isn't it?

Why are they so quick to torpedo Kerry? They obviously gave this blown punchline serious airtime and now a bogus poll is used to write his obit. Methinks they are trying too hard to bury him now. I wonder why that is? Maybe they are nervous as hell about 2008 when the Democrats will control all 3 branches of government? They know real change will start then. Seems to me they are trying to pre-emptively sink certain potential candidates now, in hopes of getting someone who'll be easier to manage.

Betcha Barrick becomes their Democrat of choice in 2008.

[Old and In the Way]

41. Alter's got quite a crystal ball.

Sounds like more of that conventional, inside-the-beltway pundit pronoucements to me.

[LittleClarkie]

44. Is that the guy from Alternet?

Who is this dude?

[NYCGirl]

46. Website here:

http://jonathanalter.com/

[Old and In the Way]

50. Think he's a Newsweek contributer.

I'm really surprised he'd be making such a strong claim well before the season starts.

[Beelzebud]

43. Welcome to 2004.

[Radical Activist]

48. This is news?

Well, no shit.

[aquart]

51. Yeah, I always need the media to tell me who to vote for.

They told me not to vote for Gore or Dean or Kerry. Fuck 'em.

But thank you for your concern.

[partylessinOhio]

52. Well, shades of that feminine Ed Rogers that was on earlier!

Who are these paid shills to say that every potential Democratic candidate is through or some other label?

Let the voters speak, not the hatemongers.

[H2O Man]

55. I respectfully disagree.

Though it seems clear that he is through as a presidential candidate, I think that is a good thing. Kerry should concentrate on being a great senator. In my opinion, that is a very important contribution, and one that he can do as well as anyone else in America.

[CatWoman]

59. sir, yes sir!!!

:hi:

[H2O Man]

60. Wow!!!

If you had ignored me any longer, I was prepared to post the worn-out Haig joke yet again. (grin)

[CatWoman]

62. *snarf*

:rofl:

:loveya:

[Nedsdag]

85. Thank you

I totally agree.

[LSK]

101. very well said

I agree totally.

[David Zephyr]

63. John Kerry is not "through".

John Kerry is probably one of the most courageous, if not the most courageous, people in the entire U.S. Senate. When anyone in the Democratic Party can match his record of service, his life-long record of service, I will be there with my measuring stick.

I am just so tired of watching people gang up on this truly great American hero.

CatWoman, just so you know, I am speaking about Alter, not you.

[Catchawave]

64. Alter is a moran....

Kerry was "swiftboated" again, and people are getting tired of it. This too will pass, and JK just needs to work harder, he has time. All our candidates need to stay on their toes, if they eff-up, clean up and move on. Then the media will smell blood elsewhere :evilgrin:

[Doctor_J]

66. I think it's probably true, and for the best

He just doesn't seem to have the finishing kick that he needs. clark and Obama and Gore and Edwards and Hil are so much smoother than JFK.

[kstewart33]

67. Stop trashing Alter. He's right.

It is a shame because I like Kerry despite his occasional goofs.

[wisteria]

73. Alter never says a good thing about Kerry. He writes for Newsweek -nuff said. n/t

[fedupinBushcountry]

72. Yep, that's the ticket

Alter is God, he knows all, as does every other pundit and D.C. insider.

Kerry will decide that and you should just wait and see what happens.

[FrenchieCat]

76. "they'll" say it enough until it becomes true.....

That's the sad part. :(

[SmokingJacket]

84. Which is fine.

I liked him quite a bit, but there are other, better candidates.

At this point, I think we're better off not re-running candidates (except maybe Gore! ;) )

[oasis]

86. Frist dropped out, maybe because he was 18th in the "likability" poll. Kerry (20)

has the character to stay in the race and let the people decide.

No phony corporate polls or half-baked journalists are going to force him out of the race.

[AbbyR]

88. I'm not a Kerry fan or a Kerry basher

but I think it is just sick that this country lets reporters, news media and polls tell us who is and is not likable, and who does and does not stand a chance at being president.

I have no problem with Kerry, or anyone else currently running (I don't think Hillary ought to run, but that's just me), but doggone it, I wish we could decide for ourselves rather than letting the television decide for us.

[WI_DEM]

93. Let's let democratic primary decide and not Jonathan Alter.

[Parche]

95. kerry

Just because Hillary and Obama are rating high right now doesnt mean that
Kerry's chance is over

I like Kerry, he is my choice, he is the one

These polls were like this in 2003/4 and he was the nominee 2004

I say crap to these people who think Kerry cant win
I know he can
I will campaign for him


KERRY/CLARK 2008

[suston96]

96. I am old enough...

...to remember Nixon saying to the press, after he lost the race for governor of California - 1962 - "you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore."

The look on his face - the despair. Uh, he came back. And he didn't tell a bad joke. He had just finished losing back to back important elections. I, and the rest of the galaxy, thought he was all done.

I say, let us - the people who count, pick our candidates, and not the talking dickheads on TV, nor others who have no vote in the matter.

[robcon]

97. Too early to call

Lots of things can happen.

[upi402]

100. It's a shame that when the Republicans' media slanders good people

that they are finished in the public's eye.

Same with the Clinton name. Not fair, but a bit more fair with respect to the Clintons.

[BlueIris]

102. Oooooh, biiiiig man. One of those people whose face I want to see in

mid-July of 2009. Won't be a happy man, I tell thee.

[raysr]

105. I saw some poll on TV

a couple of days ago that had Kerry on the bottom of a 20 person popularity poll, Gingrich was up from Kerry. They worked him over good. Nixon is probably laughing that what he started has finally come to pass.