Anyone else have that strange feeling something is going down?

[sabra]

- Cheney visits Saudi Arabia (only) over the weekend
- Saudi official says SA would intervene (if need be) in support of Sunnis in Iraq
- Iraq pres is in Iran, with both of them calling each other brothers
- Iran pres writes a letter to the American people
- Bush is in Jordan to visit with King A and Iraq PM al Maliki
- al Sadr wing of Iraqi parliament boycott
- al Maliki snubs Bush meeting
- "civil war" talk every where

I don't like where this is going...

:scared:

[iconoclastic cat]

1. I was about to post something just like that!

I can't get my head around it, except that it looks like the reins are being taken out of Bush's hands, and the Saudis and Iranians are going to go at it.

[KittyWampus]

59. NYTimes mentioned regional conflicts may be imminent

not in so many words, but Lebanon, Palestine and Iraq might be the fronts very soon.

[Critters2]

62. That's what King Abdullah is saying

I think he's very wise, and I'll bet he's very worried these days!

[Tiggeroshii]

2. The tales of a world war.. could they be accurate?

at least a little bit? If that's the case, then it will lead to Iraq trying to fight a war with another country while int he middle of a civil war. Or something. Weirdness.

[Buzz Clik]

14. Not likely.

The inertia in the US is to get out soon. Interested countries in the Middle East would not trigger a larger conflict when hope is looming for a resolution.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

48. The Americans leaving is not a resolution.

The militias are not going to put down their arms when the Americans leave. There is going to be a bloodbath whether we leave or not. And it'll be going down right on top of some of the largest oil fields in the world. This has very scary potential to become a regional conflict.

[Ilsa]

57. Bloodbath. Makes me think Bush really is the "AntiChrist", if there

is such a thing.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

83. I've been convinced he is the Anti-Christ for awhile now - Evil follows him.

[Hepburn]

84. As an atheist, I can tell you this,

The CLOSEST I have EVER gotten to being a Christian is that I can actually buy the idea that if someone shaved Monkey Boy's head, there would be a 666 as big as life right there on his bald scalp.

:evilfrown:

[aquart]

20. Why? Does the rest of the world plan to participate?

We KNOW what they're doing. The Sunnis and Shiites are massing in numbers as large as they can in preparation for an all out assault, possibly on the Green Zone. Possibly just to ethnically cleanse Baghdad.

The Saudis are saying they'll supply the Sunnis but I'm not sure if that's conditional on the US leaving.

Iran is discussing supplying the Shiites.

If we stay or go, this war will continue until there is a clear winner.

Why? What do YOU think is going on?

[roamer65]

35. Shutdown the Straits of Hormuz and Saudi Arabia's...

giant Ghawar oilfield and yes it will be WW3. The Chinese are the wildcard in all of this...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

49. Iraqi militias can't shut down the Straits of Hormuz.

Only Saudi Arabia or Iran could do that. SA has no reason to do so. I doubt Iran would try, because first of all it would screw up their economy as well, and secondly it would get them blow'd up. And regardless of how much Iran cares about their brothers in Iraq, I doubt they'd do something that stupid without an extreme (and I mean really extreme) provocation.

[roamer65]

64. If Saudi Arabia and Iran start trading blows...

...never underestimate what will be done in the heat of battle. I suspect Cheney is sucking Saudi Arabia into this in order to get at Iran.

[Warpy]

3. It could be going a relatively good place

and that is having the area policed by people who know and understand the culture instead of the US.

Or it could be what you suspect, and it's nearly time to bend over and kiss our asses goodbye.

[aquart]

25. How about neither?

The Saudis can't police and don't intend to. They're sending money and guns, not their perfect, delicate bodies.

We don't know what Iran is planning to contribute. While they support the Iraqi Shiites, it's probably more true that they consider them cousins rather than brothers. Money and guns have probably already been supplied. Men? Could be what they're discussing. Very iffy, though.

With financial support for both sides, it's clear that no one is interested in brokering peace. They plan to fight this to a bitter end.

[Warpy]

38. Yes, probably

Muddying the water is the fact that the cultures are widely different. Saudi Arabia is repressive, while the Iraqi Sunnis have been relatively free. Iran is mostly Farsi, not Arab, and they're a completely different culture sharing Shi'a Islam but not much else.

Whatever is going on, it's not good, especially with Malaki cancelling both the summit and the dinner today, promising to reschedule the former tomorrow. It seems he's demonstrating he's about to cut those marionette strings.

We need to declare victory and get the hell out of there as soon as possible. Too bad the administration is collectively and individually stupid.

[seabeyond]

41. looking like anytime in the past would have been better to declare

victory and leave, than this moment. of course not knowing what is up. but almost looking like we are being told to leave,... and who knows what is being created to happen. lookin the worst for the u.s. at this moment.

btw: i am more of a now person and what comes is what we deal... since all is in the air that is where i leave it until we see

[roamer65]

4. It's going toward a conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran...

with Iraq becoming the proxy battlefield. Turkey will soon get involved as well, up in Iraqi Kurdistan. All of Britain's post-WW1 partitioning is about to come apart.

[malaise]

15. That won't happen n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

50. I'm curious.

I doubt it's going to happen, at least not unless the situation changes drastically, but what's your reasoning?

[hippiechick]

21. ding ding ding !!!

:applause: Saudi Arabia wants the oil rich parts, Iran will get the rest, and what was Iraq will be no more.

People ? Eh, who cares what happens to the people, right George? :puke:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. What about the Kurds?

Will they be basically left alone or will they be taken into a now larger Iran? Turkey would probably go along with it, as they have their own Kurdish minority to deal with, and an independent Kurdistan would not bode well for Turkey.

[roamer65]

29. Turkey and Iran will split Iraqi Kurdistan.

The "divide and conquer" rule.

[madinmaryland]

30. Putting two and two together here...

Saudi Arabia gets the oil rich parts and the BFEE is very close to the Saudi's.



hmmmmmm. And they said it was not about oil. :grr:

[alfredo]

32. I can see where evil dick said he would support SA if they went

into Iraq and seized the Sunni Areas under the pretense of helping them. Of course the Kurds will want Kirkuk. Iran will then solidify its hold on the southern oil fields.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. Turkey would not allow the Kurds to gather in Kirkuk as part of an

autonomous Kurdish region - there's oil there, and that could fund Kurdish separatists in Turkey.

[alfredo]

66. The Kurds have been the wild card in this whole affiar.

So far they seem to be staying out of the mess down south. They might be waiting to see how the Sunni Shiia war pans out.

[Gwerlain]

44. Nice idea, but...

it turns out the areas with the oil are in the Northeast of Iraq, next to Iran, and the East of Iraq, next to Kuwait, and the areas without oil are in the Southwest of Iraq, next to Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia.

[hippiechick]

51. Saudi-Iraqistan?

It doesn't have to make sense on any map that we could imagine ... :shrug:

Jus' sayin ...

[Clark2008]

99. My hubby just said that as well.

He said there will be "no country lines."

He's being very crypic right now - I think he's trying to wrap his mind around it. He was with the Army Rangers as an intel expert (Russian linguist), so he's looking at this both militarily and intelligently.

I just think it's ironic that this thread was started about the same time as he walked downstairs and said almost the very sentiment expressed here.

We know something's about to happen - and it isn't good.

[NOLADEM]

5. Something is definitely afoot

Bushco is attempting to bring Saudi Arabia in and split the oil in exchange for the public bail out of Iraq. Saudi Arabia will provide backing for the Sunni minority in the face of Iranian support of the Shia majority. That's my guess anyway.

[htuttle]

6. Um, lots of stuff is going on

We got our fingers in 2,3,4 wars, we got our international competition taking advantage of the buffoon steering our boat, we got resource scarcity, environmental catastrophe and economic collapse coming down the pike -- lots and lots going on!

And no, you probably won't like where all this is going...

[BrotherBuzz]

7. Lines are being drawn in the sand as we speak

[Olney Blue]

80. Indeed.

And I have no confidence in the chimpanzee's ability to deal with it.

[BrotherBuzz]

110. No confidence whatsoever. While the world is playing a masterful game of chess...

The chimp insists on playing checkers...

KING ME!

[Norquist Nemesis]

8. Maliki is "dis-inviting" Bush from Iraq

Shia, Shia, everywhere a Shia. Iraq and Iran have come to a Security Agreement.

"We discussed in the fields of security, economy, oil and industry. Our agreement was complete," Talabani told reporters. "This visit was 100 percent successful. Its result will appear soon."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAN_IRAQ?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=HOME

Cheney went to Saudi Arabia for guarantees that they would continue to provide us oil.

[wiggs]

45. I think you're right

Iraq asking Bush to leave helps the administration. All that needs to happen is that oil contracts are in place so that we can control the oil through multi-nationals and then the neocons and pundits can start talking about victory in Iraq. It will happen.... the only way out for neocons. Maliki gains power, Bush has an excuse to leave....all is wonderful and good if spun correctly.

Of course, if Shiites step too hard on the Sunnis, then other countries that are mostly Sunni will pour in to help.

[Norquist Nemesis]

58. "other countries that are mostly Sunni will pour in to help."

Like, oh I don't know...Saudi Arabia? The very same place that we've had reports Cheney (note, not Bush) was "summoned" to get his ass there in person. Although, I would have a hard time believing Cheney came back without some guarantee that the US will not have an interruption of oil or price-gouging on $/Brl.

We'll see.

[AndyA]

9. I also think something is up.

Bush has no say in anything anymore. He has been expelled from the circle of influence.

I heard that Cheney was basically ORDERED to Saudi Arabia, and he dropped everything and RUSHED OVER THERE.

Something is definitely going on.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Cheney "ordered" to Saudi Arabia

That says it all, doesn't it?

[jpak]

10. No worries - Mr. Fix-it (Jim Baker) is on the job

relax already

:evilgrin:

[warrens]

11. "May your child be born in interesting times..."

Chinese curse.

[Armstead]

12. A guest on Sam Seder went into this

It was a very enlightening interview with someone from an organization, the name was something like New American Foundation.

The interviewee went into detail about the possible combinations of events that may be developing, including the Saudis stepping in to rescue the Sunnis in Iraq, while Malaki represents Iranian influsence, and Sadir represents Iraqi Shiite nationalism.

Its all a lot more complicated than the MSM bothers to go into.

Anyway the upshot was that something is about to happen involving other nations in the region.

[swag]

19. Must be Steve Clemons.

Time to go check http://www.thewashingtonnote.com

[Armstead]

31. He referred to that column so it's probably him

[cool user name]

71. Thank you for posting ...

This looks really crazy.

Thank you, Bush, you fuckhead!

[applegrove]

16. Hopefully some sort of peace-keeping mission carried out by the

neighbours. Cause what is going on in Iraq is too brutal to take.

[sabra]

17. that is my hope as well

only time will tell...

[applegrove]

55. Actually the Christian Science Monitor says it will be some sorta increase

in troops.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=248709&mesg_id=248709

[Generic Brad]

98. Of course

Everyone is telling Bush to withdraw so he does the exact opposite to spite them.

[Buzz Clik]

18. No surprises here.

The Iraqis do not view us as liberators, and neither do the Saudis, Iranians, Syrians, or anyone else. Our leanings right now are to find the exit, and when we leave, there will be a temporary shit storm. What Iraq looks like when the dust settles will depend upon who is involved.

[LSK]

22. no, I think they were trying to restrain Iraq talk before the election

But not they have been let loose since its over - the election that is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Just more indications of the irrelvance of America in the ME.

BushCorp, with it's fantasies of ecstatic Iraqis flinging flowers at the troops and embracing us and each other, have died in a torrent of bloodshed.

The Iraqis, and the rest of the world, can see daily that the "world's mightiest military" can't control a wrecked 3rd world nation.

The countries of the region, including Iraq, now see America as the common enemy, a bumbling, incompetent, enemy that can't even get the electricity turned on in 3+ years of occupation and the expenditure of hundreds of billions of dollars.

So, they are starting to make their own decisions about their own future and telling America what they plan to do rather than paying any attention to our brilliant leaders with their brilliant "plans".

The American part in the ongoing conflict is over, except as bystanders and targets.

[leveymg]

24. Six months ago, I would have said War was next. Now, it looks more like the

Grand Compromise with Iran that's been urged by realists from a lot of sides for a long time.

There's still plenty of room for spoilers in the kitchen, though. There will be a price to pay for this, of course, and how that breaks down isn't too hard to see. Dubya is being dragged into this with his nails in the sod, the present Israeli government probably will not survive, gas prices may go up and the Dollar down (we did LOSE the war in Iraq, after all), the Chinese are getting ready to dump our bonds (but, maybe have been convinced to again delay that inevitability), and the Russians are delighted.

Keeping my fingers crossed and nose held.

[GreenArrow]

60. I suspect that Israel, China and Russia, among others

have their own reasons for wanting us to stay exactly where we're at, which, given the dictates of American foreign policy, and the captain and crew currently manning the ship, is precisely what we'll do.

[leveymg]

65. Drip, drip, drip. A billion here, a billion there, eventually

you start to see the imperial yacht sink.

It's like being stranded at sea with the mast broken, fins circling, and no one to talk to but Dubya. But, at least we still have cable. On second thought, I'm going to swim for it -- it's only 2,000 miles to shore.

[cool user name]

72. Iraq is our Afghanistan

The Soviets fell and we will to.

All because of C+ student who had to have strings pulled to get into Yale and Harvard.

Fuckin' prick.

[lazyriver]

27. Taking matters into their own hands

The leaders in this region have watched Bush and his operatives destroy one of their neighboring countries while destabilizing the entire region in the process. No plan for 'victory', whatever the hell that is, has been offered and dozens if not hundreds of Arab people are dying every day while American companies get filthy rich pretending to rebuild. They have probably had enough.

I think the decision about what to do in Iraq is about to be made for us.

[wiggs]

28. Iraq is going to ask US to leave Iraq, IMO. nt

[itsmesgd]

33. Also, don't forget

that we are positioning more of our troops around Baghdad and moving them from other provinces. It looks like all of the players are preparing for something very large to go down. When the original rumors of a nuke bombing of Iran began to surface, plans were put into effect to position our troops so that they could avoid "most" of the radiation that would be in the air. I have agree that whatever it is that in about to happen, it's not going to be a good thing.
hang on kiddies, it's about to get bumpy.

[Morgana LaFey]

106. Yeah, but it's also rumored that there's going to be a big assault

on the Green Zone. Massive.

[DoYouEverWonder]

34. Here's the latest headlines

Iraq, Iran reach agreement on security

U.S.-Iraq summit put off until Thursday


In other words, Bush is irrelevant.

[roamer65]

37. Yup, translated it means Shi'a Iraq reaches agreement with Iran.

The Saudis are getting ready to become involved on the behalf of the Sunnis. I am betting the Saudis will control the border provinces and Al-Anbar province. This is going to get very ugly.

[Blackhatjack]

43. Just Like Chess, All The Pieces Are Now In Position ....

US has military presence in shipping lanes and in position to guard Saudi oil fields.
SA is prepared to aid Sunnis in Iraq, who are about to be 'cleansed' by the Shiites once the Maliki Govt falls, which won't be long.
Security alliance b/t Maliki and Iran is Plan B, if Maliki survives by giving Shiites full rein to wipe out the Sunnis. Otherwise, Plan A is to watch the Maliki Govt fall, and Shiites take over control with their militias.
The US is being marginalized and will be plotted against and attacked by all parties until the US announces it is leaving.

Yep I would say something is about to happen, and as the military war gamers say "there is no military solution to this problem".... but there can be a heck of a military fight and loss of life until that truth is accepted.

Our troops deserve not to be stranded between warring sides in a sectarian war.
In that situation there is little they can do but die.

[roamer65]

47. Never count Darth Cheney out, especially on Iran.

I still suspect that an air campaign against Iran is still in this "mix".

[wicket]

53. And we're all fucked

:cry:

[DoYouEverWonder]

54. I hope they have the helicopters

gassed up.

[Hepburn]

87. Bush is irrelevant? NOW we see those headlines?

Shit, we all could have told anyone that YEARS ago that Little Lord Pissypants was irrelevant. Too bad people had to wait until he destroyed a whole freaking country to figure it out!

:argh:

[alfredo]

36. Iraq has signed a security agreement with Iran.

We lost, Iran won.

[itsmesgd]

39. game over, we lost, drive safely n/t

[alfredo]

67. At least our nation is catching on a lot quicker than they did

during the Vietnam war.

[GeorgeGist]

42. Sunni vs Shite...

on a broader front.

[IntravenousDemilo]

46. "Shite"? You mean like the stuff inside Bush's head that gives him such a Sunni disposition? n/m

[Jacobin]

52. Not to worry. The fit is simply about to hit the shan.

:yoiks:

[Blackhatjack]

56. Watch Israeli and Turkish events if you want to be first to see it coming...

While there is not much strategic information available about either, there is a well reasoned argument that Israel will take the initiative and launch a strategic air attack on Iran, and that the attack cannot happen without Turkish permission for refueling tankers to be deployed from Turkey.

THis would be very bad for our troops on the ground in Iraq, any way you cut it.
However, if we suffered a large loss of life, there is a good chance the US would increase its presence in Iraq rather than draw down and eventually withdraw. Israel would rather the US remain in Iraq.

[Norquist Nemesis]

61. Just heard on CNN that 3 more brigades are going in

They weren't specific where they're getting them from. I heard the number 15,000 mentioned. *holds head in hands*

[NoSheep]

63. My coworker saw a planeload of marines last night. Said they looked

to be about 15 yrs old. I say they are malnourished 18 yr olds found through the lists generated by the no child left behind act.

[SOS]

68. Philip Zelikow's resignation at the State Dept.

is also troubling. He says he needs to make more money for his kids college...
Was he fired for having some realistic ideas or did he quit because he doesn't want to be associated with the next Bush fiasco?

[Olney Blue]

82. Post said that he would lose his faculty position if he didn't go back to

the university. But I agree there is much more to this story about Zelikow.... Condi's confidant.

[H2O Man]

69. Yes.

Cheney went to SA for the same general purpose he did in the early '90s.

[BelgianMadCow]

70. What purpose was that? Prepping the "allies" for another invasion?

Hope I'm wrong. I have no idea what Chenye did back then - though he was with Halliburton at the time.

[H2O Man]

76. He was in the

Bush1 administration .... he pushed for the support in the Gulf War.

[Megahurtz]

73. You would definitely know, sabra.

You seem to do a lot of research and post a lot of this stuff.
And yes, it's looking awful strange.:( I'm certainly not feeling secure about it. :scared:
Especially with all the secrecy.

[cool user name]

74. This. Is. Insanity.

:(

[rateyes]

75. In the meantime...

in Darfur....

in Lebanon...

in Palestine...

in Israel...

As a freeper would put it, we're screwn.

[lonestarnot]

77. You and I both! Together there is dislike for all that stinks!

[Megahurtz]

78. And what's worse,

what can the "Average Joe" do about it?

Crap. We are screwed.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

79. This sh** has been going on for f***ing YEARS! Only, now, finally, it's getting a little MSM

coverage.

Which included, tonight, Brian Williams very directly questioning the timing of the "leak".

Too bad the "journalists" sold out, otherwise this kind of geopolitical hanky-panky would have been front and center years ago.

Well, better very, very, very late than never, I suppose. MKJ

[Kelly Rupert]

81. Everyone's jockeying for control of Iraq.

That's what's going down.

[JoMama49]

85. I think what's going down with the *ies is that they're fixin to

throw al Maliki under the bus! He's not enough of an ass kisser. He's trying to make too many decisions himself -- uppity -- can't have that!

[Roland99]

86. Ready for $100 oil, at least?

[Zodiak]

88. We need to spread this around.

People are not getting any kind of holistic view of the situation, and that perspective is the scariest.

The American people need to brace for this...or at least as many as possible.

I have a dinky little blog on MySpace. I have three readers (2 strangers), but I still write what I think is important and that my friends/family need to read.

------------

I have a sinking feeling that recent events in Iraq and in the surrounding region do not bode well for the United States, and a regional conflict could open up even further.

This evening, Maliki (the Shia leader of Iraq), snubbed Bush at the peace talks in Jordan. He cancelled both the talk and the dinner, only agreeing to the latter the next evening. Speculation of many experts has it that Maliki has made a deal with Iran and is pushing Bush and the US out of the circle of Iraqi influence. If this agreement holds, the Sunnis in Baghdad and elsewhere are in grave danger from the Shia.

At the same time this happened, Vice President Dick Cheney has been summoned to Saudi Arabia, and of course, Cheney obeys his oily masters. Speculation from experts on thi subject says that Cheney is trying to broker a deal th the Saudis to have continued oil supplies to the US and to convince the Saudis to enter Iraq to protect their Sunni brothers and sisters in Baghdad and Anbar as well as the rich oil fields of the region.

Meanwhile, the governments of Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan are all somewhat destabilized by the Iraq war and are holding on with baited breath afraid to be sucked in as well. And they very well might be.

Also, Turkey has difficulty with their Kurds, who wish to join up with the Iraqi Kurds to form a greater Kurdistan. Turkey feels that would be a threat to them and have made frequent incursions across the Iraqi border to disrupt the Kurds.

There are about 3-4 wars that possibly will result from all of this maneuvering.

Iran and Shia Iraq vs. Saudi Arabia and the Iraqi Sunnis
Saudi family versus Saudi citizenry
Lebanon vs. Israel
Iran vs. the US
Israel vs. Iran

The wild cards in all of this is China and Russia. China owns a lot of US bonds, and they are looking to dump their dollars. This could cause destabilization of the US economy (which is why deficits are bad). Russia, on the other hand, is an ostensible ally to Iran and will probably not like this at all. What's more is that Russia has a supply of oil of their own, so will be somewhat buffered from the effects of a regional middle-eastern war.

And in the meantime, the US has made itself completely irrelevent. That much was seen earlier when the leader of Iraq pushed Bush aside. Bush's dad has already done that here. Bush, at long last, has no power, and he has made the US bogged down, in debt, and unable to effect any military resolution to the situation. There is no one else to blame because he demanded he get his way from day one and the stupid Republicans (and a few notable "centrist" Democrats) threw away their love of country and gave it to him with no oversight. They gambled the future of this country in a resource grab with no planning. We trusted this to a guy who couldn't even make a business work.

Bush has turned the greatest country in the world into an unrepentant beggar who has to sit with hat in hand as other countries settle this matter. I agree with Jimmy Carter when he says that Bush has made the biggest mistake that any American President has ever made. It pains me greatly to type this, as I love this country.

God help us because no one else in the world seems to want to.

My lonely blog

[wicket]

89. "God help us because no one else in the world seems to want to."

Amen. :cry:

[Strelnikov_]

93. Russia Is The Only Winner. The FSU Produces And Exports Almost As Much

oil as Saudi Arabia. SA goes up, they will be the only game in town.

Russia also has Europe by the short and curly's over natural gas.

Ivan's revenge?

Chindia will also benefit, as they will have opportunities when whatever governments emerge from the coming trainwreck spurn US related interests.

[Zodiak]

112. Venezuela will also do fairly well; that is...

if the US doesn't overthrow Chavez in a third coup attempt.

[The Backlash Cometh]

90. Or maybe the fat bastards are going to make peace.

It's a modern day world, afterall. Don't you think that all these people have seen enough of the good life to just be too tired to fight? They know that when America finally has the resolve of both sides, Repubs and Democrats, it will be big booms we'll be sending to them, not our kids. Only when there's not a blade of grass growing, will we send boots.

[Canuckistanian]

91. If you say it, sabra, I'm cautious, too

Although I'm still trying to make sense of the the whole "Cheney summoned to SA" thing, I'm worried about al Maliki's actions.

If this leads to a showdown of sorts with al Sadr, al Maliki, Saudia Arabia and Bush, this will be a very bad outcome indeed.

[EFerrari]

92. Do you trust these assholes to get our people out safely?

I DON'T.

They've screwed up every single crisis they've been faced with.

Why should this time be any different?

[Clark2008]

94. My husband, former Army Ranger and intel, came downstairs

a minute ago and said, "It's over. All hell is about to break lose. They're kicking our asses outta there."

And, then he walked back upstairs.

He was never for the war, but who the hell wants to see our troops put in this situation?

[jasmeel]

95. The Iraqi's are kickin us out?

Is that why this meeting was canceled?
U.S.-Iraq summit abruptly canceled
AMMAN, Jordan -
President Bush's high-profile meeting with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki on Wednesday was canceled in a stunning turn of events after disclosure of U.S. doubts about the Iraqi leader's capabilities and a political boycott in Baghdad protesting his attendance.
ADVERTISEMENT

Instead of two days of talks, Bush and al-Maliki will have breakfast and a single meeting followed by a news conference on Thursday morning, the White House said.

The abrupt cancellation was an almost unheard-of development in the high-level diplomatic circles of a U.S. president, a king and a prime minister. There was confusion — and conflicting explanations — about what happened.

Bush had been scheduled to meet in a three-way session with al-Maliki and Jordan's King Abdullah II on Wednesday night, and had rearranged his schedule to be in Amman for both days for talks aimed at reducing the spiral of violence in
Iraq.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061130/ap_on_re_mi_ea/bush

[Clark2008]

97. I'm not sure what he meant - but I think he meant that the REGION

was getting ready to kick us out - somehow - either through a massive resistance or through some kind of political manuevering.

[Strelnikov_]

96. It Appears To Me That We May Already Be At War With Iran

If we are lining up Saudi Arabia/Jordan to assist with protecting the Iraqi Sunni's and countering Iranian dominance in Iraq, this clusterfuck could spin off into a major regional war with amazing speed.

Look how rapidly things have deteriorated over the last few months.

[nashville_brook]

100. yep -- talked about it at dinner

things are happening too fast

[here_is_to_hope]

101. My SO noticed

I was in the clouds today, trying to find some sort of string to tie all of these things together...there is something afoot...

[xiamiam]

102. i think cheney is negotiating the sale of the u.s airlines to the saudis...

dont ask me why...cheney is up to something and its always about profit and power with him....heard that the bush administration is determined to sell control of the airlines to foreign investors(lou dobbs today while sitting in the doctors office)...just a little too coincidental...

[upi402]

105. Maybe so, the Saudis greeted him like a mafia Don

Dick standing on a velvet-roped red carpet with the Saudis waiting on line to kiss hiss friggin' ring was unsettling to me.

Something bad for Americans is about to happen, me thinks. Somebody try that man in Germany or somewhere -quick!

[wicket]

115. WTF?

Jesus, the plot just keeps thickening.

[kitty1]

103. Now if we add the multi national naval exercises in the Gulf...

region back in September to the equation. It makes you wonder doesn't it?

[Mr_Spock]

104. I think the Republicans are going to impeach Bush soon

...before the Dems even have a chance.

He is SO fucking toast.

[lala_rawraw]

107. Have you seen this?

the link is now dead, but thank god I blogged about it:

"Yegor Gaidar, Russia’s former prime minister and the architect of the country’s market reforms, last week suffered a sudden, unexplained and violent illness on a visit to Ireland, a day after Alexander Litvinenko, a former KGB spy, died in London from an apparent radiation poisoning.

Mr Gaidar is now in a stable condition at an undisclosed Moscow hospital, undergoing tests. In a telephone interview with the FT, Mr Gaidar said the doctors had so far been unable to identify the cause of the violent vomiting and bleeding that he suffered during a conference in Ireland.

Anatoly Chubais, his former associate and the head of Russia’s electricity monopoly, said he suspected Mr Gaidar may have been poisoned. However, he strongly ruled out that either Russia’s security services or the Kremlin could have had any involvement. There is no indication of radiation being the cause of his illness.

Mr Gaidar is one of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s softer critics and his daughter is a leader of an opposition movement. Mr Gaidar, who heads an economic think-tank in Moscow, has close connections with the government and occasionally advises them on economic matters."

http://www.atlargely.com/2006/11/another_russian.html

It may require its own thread... something very bad is going down, very aggressive and bad.

[Blackhatjack]

111. Can you give us the benefit of your informed opinion as to what you think this means?

Is there a purge of Putin critics going on? What are the immediate and long term implications?

Is there any reason to believe that Putin is behind all this in a larger mission to consolidate power?

Thanks.

[lala_rawraw]

114. That is a great deal to answer here...

I wrote about this... see here: http://www.atlargely.com/2006/11/running_amok_wi.html

This is a very long entry in which I transcribe some of the items in my notes, my actual questions, some of the answers I got, etc.

Right now, as things stand, I believe that Putin is the "author" of the script, but there is uncertainty of who the "actors" are... if that makes sense. In other words, the killer falls into two points: the indirect killer (no fingerprints) and the direct killer (fingerprints), with the former dictating to some degree for the latter.

Putin, IMHO, is behind the hits and not because they are critics. I am quite comfortable with the reasons I was given for the two killings: Ann and Alex, and I mean, I would make a wager with regard to my comfort level. They were killed because of the following:

1). Putin's regime (and it is a regime) has been running domestic terror squads in order to gain more and more control over the nation and to justify reclaiming the former Soviet republics. These attacks are discussed in my entry (link above) as well as my article, but the allegations are not mine, they were made by others. Most notably, they were made by both victims: Alex was Anna's source, he described in great detail the 1999 Russia bombings in a book called Blowing Up Russia. Anna was a journalist who was focusing on the Chechen mafia and tracking questions she had about the Beslan terrorist attack, on the way to which she was poisoned.

2). Ann was very specifically tracking the money and the arms that supplied the domestic terror groups and how these groups recruited within Chechnya and the human rights abuses by the Russians. Alex was tracking the arms and other products that made their way into the hands of the Russian black market. A shorter way of saying this is that Anna was the Russian counterpart to Dan Pearl, who was killed in Pakistan while on the hunt for Al Q funding.

3). Alex/Anna (not sure of who had the documents first) had documents relating to Beslan, but also documents that were essentially a pay-for-kill hit list. This list is also related to the terror gangs as it was acted out on the same orders and by the same people.

4). Alex was going to expose this in a book/Anna I am not sure about.

5). Alex via Boris B had documents relating to the blackmail of foreign officials as well.

That I am very comfortable with now. That is the motive.

Now, as to who the instrument of the killings is, that is where I am having a difficult time tracing it. I am also a bit reluctant given that I have family there (if you know what I mean). Which is why some of this is not in my article (the blackmail). I did put a great deal of it in my blog (just in case... don't ask). The killer is not a single person, it is a team. That I know also. But I don't know for sure who they are. I do suspect a few, but again, it is all very complex and hard to track.

Finally, Putin will never be attached in any real, measurable way to this. It might go up as high as FSB, but it won't touch Putin. He used to run the KGB, and he is the de facto head of the "family" or mafia. He is not stupid. And he won't be touch, maybe embarrassed, but not touched by this. IMHO I am fairly sure he is the author of the hit given the various layers, the people I have spoken with, and in general, given my background, certain other things I know (don't ask, I have family there)... Putin is the "author"/killer.

Another reason this will never be proved is because this attack is actually an act of war, a nuke attack really, using a human as the delivery mechanism. So to avoid war, Britain will bury it I think should they find concrete proof of Putin's involvement, which I doubt.

The claim that the oligarchs are behind this are smoke and mirrors for various reason. While they could have gotten the Polonium, let's just say they could never have managed a delivery such as.

As to the overall picture of what this means, I have no idea. Perhaps the end game of a fascist regime or a show of strength to protect natural resources, I simply don't know. They are all crazy and criminal, so I have given up attempting to measure logic here.

hope that helps, but I still suggest reading my big entry on this, because it goes somewhat through a process of questions and such.



2).

[Blackhatjack]

116. Please accept my sincere thanks for your response, and ....

... my apology for not picking up on your hyperlink. I visited your site, and have bookmarked it for future reference.

Hopefully, since I put you to the additional trouble to respond at length here there will be a benefit to all DUers who did not follow the link, and have now benefitted from your response. They will likely seek out your site now, and we will all be better off.

I realize I have a limited understanding of the complexities at work here, and that is why your opinion is valuable to understanding events going on there. However, I would like your opinion on an observation and conclusion I have reached.

Is it possible that in the conflict between the oligarchs and the Putin regime that in fact there are 'no good guys?" Each have different corrupt and criminal goals that they are attempting to accomplish, and the areas of interface and the assets being fought over require them to fight and destroy the other to be successful.

I understand that the FSB became the public face of the old KGB, but really is this not just a cosmetic makeover? Has Putin not revitalized his old network of KGB contacts, and is now using the KGB organization to consolidate power and control over 'old Soviet assets' while claiming to support democratic policy?

And are the oligarchs not acting to perserve and regain corrupt control over 'financial assets' threatened by Putin, in much the same way that organized crime in the US would fight back against government crackdowns on its assets? They certainly do not have 'clean hands' in this fight, right?

If we acknowledge that there are no 'good guys' in this fight, then is it not more accurate to label it a fight between predators?

Who and where are the 'good guys' in the transformation that is taking place there?

Thanks for all your efforts to educate the rest of us.

[lala_rawraw]

117. there are no

good guys... the few that are left are silent or are being silenced. the fight between the factions is really complex and would require a book i think to give justice to your question. thank you for the kind comments, it means a great deal:D

[Warren DeMontague]

108. What's going on is, any facade that Iraq isn't a massive clusterfuck is gone.

Even the Corporate media, with their Rove-fed talking points, can't cover it up any more. And they're running out of celebrity babies and shit to distract the masses with. The election was the last straw.

They realize they've screwed the pooch, and once the Dems are running congress, they may even have to provide some real answers on things like where our $300 Billion has gone.

That's what's going on.

[Blackhatjack]

109. This is the way "World Wars" start ....

... the trigger event usually acts as a catalyst for other countries to take advantage of the situation to settle accounts that have been simmering in the background, and then the reactions to those actions escalate out of control.

Think for a minute. If you were N. Korea and saw this total chaotic multi-nation war break out in the Middle East, where the US was tied down militarily --would you see this as the opportunity to "unify the peninsula" and invade S. Korea?

Or if you were China, steamed all these years by the Taiwan government. Would you not take action to "unify' Taiwan under Chinese control?

And if you were the Chinese and wanted to take this action, you could place a call to the US and remind them you hold a boatload of their debt which you could call due, and just for good measure remind the US that oil is going to be a scare commodity for everyone until the Middle East crisis is resolved. So the US would be over a barrel to do anything to stop China and its plans.

Once the Sunnis and the Shiites square off against each other across territorial lines, all bets are off as to what might happen, but you can bet that the rest of the world will be pushed into "taking sides" in the conflict since oil will hang in the balance.

Then there is the Israeli problem which brings its own set of threats. Especially if Israel decides to strike Iran to take out its strategic nuclear sites.

In this case, it appears the US is congregating its troops in Baghdad for a strategic reason that has as much to do with our troops' interests as being efficient and effective. This pooling of troops is occurring at the same time that the Shiites are planning to wipe out the Sunnis, and possibly take down the Maliki government.

I see a big fight between multiple aligned parties before there will be any negotiating of a political solution.

The Kurds and Turkey is a whole other fight that will happen. And the real danger in the region make come about through a coordinated Taliban resurgence and Pakistan undergoing a coup, putting nuclear weapons in the hands of a radical islamic group. Enter stage right, India with their nuclear weapons. The chances of an accidental nuclear exchange would go way up.

It is all related in one way or the other, and we have never needed diplomacy more than we need it now --but regardless of what Bush says, diplomacy is just not in his arsenal.

[BikeWriter]

113. Yea, but Wolfowitz said, there was no history of ethnic strife in Iraq...

as there was in Bosnia or Kosovo...