Has the US ever "spread democracy" like in Iraq and it worked?

[sweetpotato]

I am curious. Have we ever been able to force democracy successfully?

[Fierce]

1. It seems to me that democracy, by definition, can't be forced.

I find it strange that anyone on the right thinks that it can be brought, rather than fought for by the people who want it.

[Taxloss]

2. The oft-quoted example is Germany, Japan, Italy etc. after WW2.

The circumstances could not be more different, though.

South Korea could be considered an example - a democracy that was the result of a war involving the USA.

As far as the rest of the 20th century goes, I cannot think of a single example.

[endarkenment]

7. South Korea was a brutal military dictatorship

for like 25 years or so after the Korean War reached truce stage. Hardly a good example. The evolution to democracy was the result of the Korean people's determination to rid themselves of corrupt despots.

Japan is a one party malformed republic, a rightwing version of the Mexican PRI 'democracy' that ended a while back. It may eventually become a two party system but I wouldn't count on it.

Germany is the oddball case, however the circumstances were quite unusual.

[liberalpragmatist]

25. Japan's elections are pretty clean, though

Japan's basically a one-party state, but it isn't like PRI-era Mexico; there are free elections and there's proportional representation. And there have been a couple (short) periods of opposition rule. It's just that the LDP is so strong that it dominates the political system completely.

[endarkenment]

26. In power since 1955.

At what point would you accept that this is a malformed democracy?

[liberalpragmatist]

27. If people keep voting for them...

... then I don't see what the problem is. It isn't as though they're winning because they've gamed the electoral system in their favor (as in, say, Singapore). It isn't as though they're winning because they stifle dissent or ban other political parties. People are perfectly free to vote for other parties; they just haven't in great numbers thus far.

That isn't like what was going on in Mexico and Singapore or now Russia.

[Lithos]

3. yes and no

Japan, post WWII. Germany post WWII.

However, the real question I think is: Have we ever instilled a democratic tradition on a place where the tradition was missing? Answer is no. It's something that comes from the people, not downward.

L-

[Lone_Star_Dem]

6. True

You point out the distinction that is often overlooked in this argument.

Democracy lost and then restored is not the same as creating Democracy where there was none.

[twilight_sailing]

4. another ? - have we subverted democracies in other countries

;)

[Skink]

5. We turned Vietnam in to a capatalist sweatshop.

[Tempest]

9. Vietnam's political system is still Communist

So the answer is still no.

Although you are correct about their economic system.

[Tempest]

8. No

Germany was a democracy before the Third Reich.

Japan already had democratic institutions so the U.S. didn't bring it there either.


There is no instance in recorded history where a political/social system has ever been successfully forced upon a people that lasted after the occupiers left.

[Kelly Rupert]

10. I'll let North Korea know it can stop being Communist. n/t

[Tempest]

13. Huh?

Communism wasn't forced on North Korea, communist elements within North Korea created the government.

[Kelly Rupert]

15. That's an interesting take on history

that happens to be completely false.

North Korea (official name: The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK)) was proclaimed on September 9, 1948, under the supervision of the occupying Soviet forces. Although there was an indigenous Korean Communist Party, the Soviets preferred Korean Communists who had spent the war years in the Soviet Union.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_north_korea

Perhaps you were thinking of North Vietnam?

[Tempest]

18. And the very next paragraph contradicts what you posted

In February 1948, the leading Korean exile Communist, Kim Il-sung, became head of the North Korean Provisional People's Committee, which preceded the formal establishment of the state. Kim's rise to power can be attributed to a combination of his ability to organize grassroots movements in the countryside, and, the political choice of many of his rivals to remain in Pyongyang and seek power. In this way, Kim was able to win out over his political rivals.


The USSR didn't force communism on North Korea, North Korea choose to use communism when they formed their political system.


This is an example of why Wikipedia can't be taken seriously as a source of information.

[Cleita]

11. We have destroyed democracy in Chile in 1973. n/t

[Tempest]

14. And Iran's in 1953

Iran's government was democratic before the CIA overthrew Mosaddeq and installed the Shah's dictatorship.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. No, people seem to forget that Japan is a constitutional monarch... and that it started down that

path in the 1920's. The The Weimar Constitution created a republic under a semi-presidential system with the Reichstag elected by proportional representation prior to the rise of Hitler and the Nazis. In other words, the 'seeds' for democracy were already there in both of those cases.

[Bridget Burke]

24. And we didn't fight Japan or Germany to "spread Democracy" in those countries.

They were defeated & invaded because their rulers waged aggressive war. So, many of the Japanese & Germans were ready to try that "Democracy" thing again.

The fact that we were helping rebuild those countries didn't hurt.

[dogday]

16. You can't spread Democracy, You can't force Democracy

It is achieved only through the will of the people, and that is if they want it...

[Lars39]

17. Here's a list of the countries the US has bombed:

http://www.peacefulresistance.com/article.php?story=20041103221124514

[EFerrari]

19. No. But we have expunged it all over the world. n/t

[The2ndWheel]

20. How about in America?

There would be no America without forcing democracy by spreading it throughout the land.

[TahitiNut]

21. Forcing democracy is akin to forcing 'love' ... it's called rape.

:shrug:

[SoCalDem]

22. If only we could spread it on blankets, and just hand them out

like we did for the Native Americans..:sarcasm:

Only an IDIOT thinks they can force another country to adopt a form of government they do not want.

There is no such thing as "Sharia Democracy"... or is there?

[sweetheart]

23. democracy is a winter narrative

Observe the comparison between the time-graph of 3 years of people
around the english speaking world searching for:
"american democracy", "democracy", "jesus", and "heating"
Notice how the subjects are least interesting at midsummer
when people go outside in the warm weather, but when they
go back in doors in fall/winter, they pray to their gods, if
its not warm, they pray for heat first, and then jesus and
democracy... what is it about the psychology that religious narratives
are seasonal?... is it a SAD thing?

http://google.com/trends?q=american+democracy&ctab=1&geo=all&date=all
http://google.com/trends?q=democracy&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all
http://google.com/trends?q=jesus&ctab=1&geo=all&date=all
http://google.com/trends?q=heating&ctab=1&geo=all&date=all