Screw Ahmadinejad. I am a Zionist and damn proud of it.

[JohnLocke]

I support a homeland for the Jewish people, in Israel.

I support the movement of Labor Zionism that began with Theodor Herzl and Chaim Weizmann and has endured to the present day.

I support the strain of Zionism as supported by the vast majority of Jewish people, the Zionism of Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres.

And all of those who voted yes on this poll, who lack the courage to come and defend your position that "the Jews control Hollywood, that Jews control the banks, and the Jews control government" are either anti-Semitic or the most ignorant people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. That 60 percent of DU sickens me. All I can say is to that those who mistake this and this with this are even more stupid than those right-wingers in our own nation who mistake things like this and this with this.

And another thing--Ahmadinejad isn't some sort of heroic leftist reformer. He was elected on a platform of being a reactionary who would crush any sort of democratic impulse. He denies the Holocaust. He has overseen the forced retirement of professors. The deification of this right-wing nutjob on this website is unbelievable sometimes. He is not a good man.




Shalom.

[Clark2008]

1. I have no problem with it - as long as you realize that

it's not always in the USA's best interest to defend Israel.

Even my Jewish husband agrees on that point.

[PCIntern]

2. Good for you...

there are many of us who agree in toto with you, despite the 60%.

Better put on your Fireproof Haz-mat suit, however...

[TechBear_Seattle]

3. Meaning...

That race and religion alone give you a Manifest Destiny to go into a country, steal land from the people already living there and then send those people off to concentration camps... excuse me, reservations... my bad, relocation settlements when they object.

[everythingsxen]

12. "Steal land"

is technically not correct. What would be correct to say is that Israel bought the land, in good faith from the British, who had in fact stolen it from Palestinians.

Take your bullshit up with the UK.

[Alexander]

19. Your analysis is 100% correct.

Unfortunately these facts are lost on many, both on the left and the right.

Anyone who has a problem with the state of Israel should take their hostility out on the British - after all, before 1948 it was the "British Mandate of Palestine".

:applause:

[cool user name]

46. Oh, so Israel has no culpability in the expulsions prior to and

subsequent to 1948?

[wuushew]

22. What about the Golan heights and West Bank?

:shrug:

[everythingsxen]

24. What about them?

When a country is attacked on all sides, defends its existence, the attackers should have no consequences?

Where was the UN when Israel was invaded? What did they do to stop it?

Nothing.

So Israel kept some land to use as a barrier.

I will concede that lasting peace between Israel and Palestine will have to involve them giving that land up, however as of this moment, they have no real reason to believe there ever will be peace, so have no reason to give it up.

[cool user name]

51. That's bullshit and you know it.

Read Benny Morris' "Righteous Victims" if you actually want to find out what happened.

Israel's existence was never threatened, meanwhile the Palestinians kept being relocated eastward.

Can the Palestinians, according to your argument, grab some of Israeli land (was theirs in the first place) so as to provide a "barrier" against further Zionist encroachment?

[majorjohn]

23. What's your point?

Selling or buying something stolen is stolen nevertheless.

[everythingsxen]

31. Ok, so a real estate agent sells you a house...

You sign a bunch of papers and he tells you it's all legal.

You show up at the house and there are people living there. You call up the agent who says it is your house and those people shouldn't be there. You ask them to leave and some of them do. Some of them however pull rifles and start shooting. Then they call the neighbors over to shoot you too.

That's a direct example.

An indirect example would be:

You spend 3 months salary buying a wedding ring for your partner. Your partner loves it and is very happy. You bought it in a reputable jewelry store. You even got a warranty.

One night you are walking home with your partner. A guy jumps out of the alley, points a gun at you and says that the ring was really his all along and demands it back.

[majorjohn]

48. How are those examples related?

You're missing the purpose of my question. If you buy something stolen, it's stolen! What's your point?

[NOLADEM]

37. Purchasing stolen goods is still a crime, particularly when you know they are stolen

Israel is not blameless no matter to what tune you tap dance around the truth, which is that there were Palestinians living on their own land and it has been taken from them by crook, force and manipulation.

Palestinians are fighting for their sovereignty. Israel is acting as the Colonists did toward the Native Americans. This I suspect is a major reason why Israel finds such an unconditional friend in us.

Israel acts like a bully, using our power as their proxy. This damages both Israel and the US immensely.

Unless the Israeli's are prepared to kill every last Palestinian, they are gonna have to learn to live with them, and their current behavior only makes more and bolder enemies (and DISGUSTS me as a human being). And as a people who survived the Holocaust, they should be ASHAMED to their very core by their heavyhanded, murderous approach to their relations with the Palestinians.

[leftchick]

42. best post on this thread

and I believe they are indeed prepared to kill every last Palestinian.

[AlienGirl]

49. I am willing any real estate I own back to the Native American tribe who originallly lived there

[YellowRubberDuckie]

44. I was lead to believe that there was a war between Palestine and Israel...

And Palestine lost, and Israel claimed the land they won. Then the Palestinians decided they didn't like that so they started fighting back, one suicide bomber at a time.
Duckie

[leftchick]

35. Concentration Camps is ironically fitting

isn't it? :puke:

[Teaser]

4. Do you always announce your hobbies to the world?

nt

[damntexdem]

5. Zionism is racist and inhumane.

It has wrought great harm to Palestine, to the Middle East, to the world, and ultimately to Jews everywhere.

And Ahmadinejad is just as bad.

[Alexander]

13. He specifically mentioned Labor Zionism.

Do you know the difference? Try looking it up.

[shance]

15. Wait! You forgot sexist.

Don't leave us females out.

They don't.

[everythingsxen]

6. I am not Jewish,

and I haven't called myself a Zionist in this lifetime. However I do support a Jewish homeland and during the Israel/Lebanon War I was branded a Zionist by the anti-"Zionist" crowd here at DU. So I am a Zionist I guess. I stand with you against the horrors of the coming night.

Where is the Hebrew Hammer when you need him!?

[rainy]

26. Why can't the Jews live there, call it Israel and let people, anyone

live there. Stop bull-dozing the homes and olive gardens of poor Palestinians. Stop trying to do to the Palestinians what we did to the Indians.

[majorjohn]

39. Here's another point you missed

Jews used to live there - Palestine, just as they did anywhere else in the world; they're Arab Jews. As a matter of fact, 800000 Arab Jews lived in the Middle East before 1948. The creation of Israel just imported more Jews from all over the world into that tiny land (but pretty much anyone could go there, it wasn't like you had to have a Jew ID - as if there's such a thing). As for the people that originally lived there, they were drived out of their homes and forced into refuge, and that's the problem.

[majorjohn]

29. Indeed

You have to understand: You don't have to be Jewish to be Zionist, and not all Jews are Zionists!

[Parche]

7. home

Do you also support a home for the Palestine people?
Do you support the reduction of our billions of tax dollars sent over to Israel?
Remember everything isnt all anti semetic

[Alexander]

21. Can't one support a state of Israel AND a state of Palestine?

Is everything really so black-and-white?

[Parche]

28. both

Yes I support both
But sometimes it seems that they are doing the same thing to the people of Palestine
that happened to them in the 40's.

[leftchick]

33. That makes too much sense. Apparently it is ALL B&W

to the Zionists and Likudniks. Much like with the neocons and Christian fundies. :eyes:

[Alexander]

40. Don't forget Hamas and Ahmadinejad...

The extreme elements of both parties are largely to blame for this mess.

[leftchick]

47. I agree

the extremists in each country are to blame.

[Alexander]

8. As you should be.

The kibbutz was perhaps the closest the human race has ever come to outright Marxist communism, usually referred to as "utopia" (with the state being absent) and the US would do well to have communities look out for each other in such a way.

Labor Zionism is a noble and worthy cause with very little in the way of hierarchy, a point lost on many DUers.

However, my support of Israel does not extend to support of Ehud Olmert, or many Likud leaders like Netanyahu. The left wing of the Israeli government is worth supporting and assisting - the right wing is not. Much like here.

Chavez's willingness to schmooze with Ahmadinejad bothers me and does not endear me to his cause, even though he is helping to lift the Venezuelans out of poverty. I have mixed feelings about Chavez solely for this reason, although I've noticed a lot of DUers take the attitude that if you're not with Chavez, you're against him; a narrowly black-and-white view of a complex situation.

[jaysunb]

34. Very thoughtful....

:toast:

[chimpymustgo]

9. I hope that doesn't mean you support starving the Palestinian people, imprisoning

them, stealing their land, killing them...all the things Jimmy Carter is valiantly speaking out against in his book, "Palestine Peace or Apartheid." It's good to hear him getting that message out all over the MSM.

[RestoreGore]

55. I bet you won't get an answer to this n/t

[Gwerlain]

10. This WASP atheist...

supports you and agrees with you. But I have an important question.

What is your opinion on the treatment of individual Palestinians, and the elected Palestinian government, by the government of Israel, and the Israeli military? Because while I have no problem with there being an Israel, I have a great deal of problem with the way that the antagonistic right-wing government of Israel has been doing business over there.

[Gwerlain]

38. I don't make a habit of replying to my own posts... but

if you're not going to answer, I'm going to come to some pretty nasty conclusions regarding your personal integrity. It's an EXTREMELY important question, and I want an answer on it.

[Kelly Rupert]

11. Good for you n/t

[AlienGirl]

14. I have only one thing to add...

http://www.supportsanity.org

[theoldman]

16. I did not vote in the poll but perhaps I can speak for some of

them. Of course if I were politically correct I would have to agree with everything in your post. Since I have had Jewish relatives, grew up with Jews and have Jewish friends I can speak with a little experience. Not everyone that is Jewish agrees with everything the Israeli government does. Many believe that the Palestinians have a right to live in a country where they have lived for thousands of years. Bush screwed up by not working with the Israeli government. This includes putting some pressure on them when they are heading in the wrong direction.

[jaysunb]

17. Please mark me down in the "ignorant " column.

:evilfrown:

[demosincebirth]

18. Good for you, Be proud of what you are.

[leftchick]

20. shouldn't this be in the I/P dungeon?

like anything remotely related to Lebanon and Palestine?

[Gwerlain]

25. Sure as long as the polls go with it. n/t

[cali]

30. That dungeon label is such

baloney. It's a structured forum for discussion of I/P affairs, and it works rather well. But what would you know? You don't post there.

[leftchick]

36. what would you know?

I read there. :eyes:

[Perky]

27. I stand with you

Shalom

[Leftist78]

32. well...

If that means without compromise, and without at the very least considering the rights of the people that have been turned into refugees in their own homeland because of your religious belief in a holy land, then your philosophy would be the equivalent of genocide. However, if you are open to the idea of a 2 state solution with shared rights to Jerusalem, then your ideas are at least workable.

[StraightDope]

41. Wow...

I don't know what to say...

[Wonk]

43. IBTL

I ain't gonna play Sun City.

[RestoreGore]

45. That's wonderful...

And also be proud of all the innocent blood spilled in your name as well. I support a homeland for Israel and the Palestinians, as they have been there for centuries as well. And for you to now link anyone who wants that as being a supporter of Ahmadinejad is also despicable. I am American and I support peace and freedom for all people, as long as OUR CHILDREN aren't the ones serving Israel or any other country BUT THEIR OWN. It is time to take care of OUR country.

[AlienGirl]

50. America for Americans?

[RestoreGore]

52. What a concept, huh? n/t

[unsavedtrash]

53. right the hell on!

I feel the same way.
:thumbsup:
:applause:

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

56. I'm going to lock this.

Do not start a new topic in order to continue a flame war from another discussion thread.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator