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Shall we make it easier for kids to be labeled "gifted"?

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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:41 AM
Original message
Shall we make it easier for kids to be labeled "gifted"?
You may remember the fiery debate we had a few months back on whether or not we should have a "gifted" group on DU, I'm assuming for all those former kids who at one point or another were labeled "gifted". This group, no doubt, would have been a very selective group, as the kids who are given this label are usually in the minority among their peers.

But now Florida wants to lower the standards for this prestigious characterization, allowing previously non-gifted students to suddenly acquire this distinguised status.

Is this a good idea?

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/16126719.htm
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. If it were just for parental bragging rights, no
If it were an effort to give more children a challenging school curriculum, yes.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. How about let's forget the label, and ask:
should we make it easier for all kids who want the extra challenge to be able to take advantage of challenging classes? If a student has shown s/he can do the work, and wants to be in the class, why keep him or her out?

As a mother of kids who got the label, I've never thought that was the important part. In fact, I thought that was the downside to the whole thing. Everyone has strengths to be nourished and weaknesses to be addressed . . . the "gifted" as much as anyone else.
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Ron Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think we should make it easier for them to be "regifted."
Then you could get rid of 'em easier.

:P
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
20. hahahahahahahahaha
good one
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jannyk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. What fucking nonsense!
We can't lift them up by educating them so we lower the bar? If they were non-gifted before the change they'll remain non-gifted no matter what you call them.

Shall we lower the standard for the term 'millionaires' to include those that have $100k in assets? Will it change how much I really have - no. Will it make me 'feel' like a millionaire? - no. Will it make me believe I'm a millionaire? Well if it did, I'd end up in dire straits, 'cause I don't have what it takes. How is that helpful?

They'll only have to find a new name for the truly 'gifted' kids - they'll become 'super-gifted' or some such silliness.

Stop the madness - please.
:crazy:
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. My kids were in the "gifted" program. The school district spent $13,000 on the whole program.
The district had about 18,000 kids at the time.

Less than a buck-a-kid.

So much for nourishing our best and brightest.


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Porcupine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. Only if you hate children.
I was labeled "gifted" in grade school. What that earned me was some pull out classes in graded school and junior high where the geek squad got extra field trips. It was interesting and fun but not overall helpfull to my schooling.

In high school when it would have been nice to have some counseling and direction I was mainstreamed back into the mob. That meant no challenging classes and several truly dull ones because of overcrowding problems.

Gifted programs are just a way to collect money. They rarely amount to addressing the needs of the students.
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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. My son has been labelled gifted for many years but has had an awfull time in the
regular classroom, He has scored in the 149 I am not sure what or the 99.8 percentile but I have been having a hard time with him at home. I am not sure if anyone remembers last year where I had to call the police as he was out of control. He basically missed the whole school year but has since returned. It is still difficult for him but I have told him he just needs to get through the year and then he can decide what to do. I recently spoke to his teachers and they all said he is an enigma, either on task or not at all. I still have hope for him although his attitude at school makes this difficult.
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Sounds like ADHD
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. My daughter dropped out in 10th grade; I spent my son's college money on private school for him
My son's in the top 1% -- my daughter is close to that. I think there's some ADHD going on with them as I now know it runs in the family, but they went through school when only the most egregious cases got diagnosed. Their adolescence was awful -- you have my heartfelt sympathy.

You might want to have your son checked out for ADHD if you have not already. It might be a factor in his difference. Look for Thom Hartmann's book "ADD: A Different Perception" aka "The Hunters in a Farmer's World Book" http://www.thomhartmann.com/home-add.shtml

Something that worked for my kids was making sure they had summer jobs -- since I was working myself I needed to know what they were doing and where they were! I encouraged them to think of things they could apply for, but I also scouted around and they ended up with some interesting experiences. There were a lot of benefits to this approach: first, they learned about the work-ethic, showing up and doing a good job; second, the money was nice, altho only my son learned to save it; third, very importantly, it gave them something to succeed at and feel good about that was outside of the classroom experience. (During the school year, sports might fulfill a similar function for a lot of kids.)

I could never have home-schooled either one of my kids, as I have mild to moderate ADD myself and never wanted to be a schoolteacher in the first place. They were giving me a hard time and I counted on the schools to educate them -- I just didn't realize how different the school system had become.

They're okay now, athough both stayed away from formal education for a long time before going to community college. They're fundamentally sound -- and had some luck on their side as well; they survived the drug and alcohol experimentation that scared me so much.

Hang in there -- you're doing the best you can.

Hekate

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HarukaTheTrophyWife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. I agree with RaginginMiami. It sounds like ADHD (which we both have).
I scored 99% percentile on standardized tests, my grades could either be perfect or failing, and I could either me a great student or absolutely horrible. It all depended on whether it was something that interested me.

I'd get him checked out for ADHD. I take Adderall XR and it really helps me.
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Both my kids were in the TAG program...
Talented and Gifted. They were TAG'd because of how they did on standardized state testing (top 1%). We did not ask to have them "placed" in the TAG program. They just tested and fell into it.

Was this a good idea. NO!!!!!!!!!

Not only does it create an elitist mentality; but our children are far more then a standardized test score. Was I proud my kids tested well? Sure. But I see measures of character and creativity to be of greater importance....something not measured on standardized state tests. The whole kid should be the focus. Kids should not be labeled with anything, "gifted" included.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. That's ridiculous!
We are all, as human beings, measured in part by our talents and abilities. This way of thinking is just the kind of BS that I had to put up with--people acting as if it's somehow "bad" to be labeled as intelligent, gifted, whatever. It's fine for athletic kids to be proud of their achievements, fine for popular kids to be proud to be elected homecoming king/queen, but it's "bad" to be proud of your intelligence.

Screw that way of thinking!

If a child has a gift, he/she should be proud of it. Embrace that "label", and be who you are!
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RiverStone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I'm NOT saying don't be proud of who you are....
I am saying I put little stock in some damn state test which is very narrow in scope.

I don't want my kids to define who they are by what labels are ascribed to them by other people or testing companies.
My daughter is a varsity athlete in multiple sports and an honor student; she would be the first to tell you - "Don't label me!

One can embrace who they are; that rocks!

I think you missed the point.
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murielm99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Well said, silverojo!
:yourock:

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selfdestructive Donating Member (113 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
10. i was labeled gifted by 3rd grade

they didn't know what to do with me
they wanted to move me up grades along with other suggestions...

im not sure whats happened since but its been a wild ride.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Heh,
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 04:09 AM by undergroundpanther
I was labeled hyper and gifted in second grade, yet didn't have a decent teacher until fourth grade. Mrs Chamberlain was awesome she gave me my own lesson plans and I loved it and her too.Anyways during summer my sister took me to her college classes at the community college and I ate that up. I loved it.These are some of my best school type memories.My sisters teachers didn't mind me going because I was fascinated, didn't interrupt class and I participated.Later after class I'd go with my sister and help with wildlife rehab for the state park.
By time I was in 5th grade it was all downhill from bad to worse until I broke down.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. No, it's not a good idea
As a "gifted" child, myself, it was hard enough having my own education slowed down by average students (I'm not blaming them, just being realistic--they were the majority!).

But if they started lowering the standards, gifted classes would soon become like regular classes--the more advanced kids being slowed down by the less advanced.

I was terrible at athletics, and I sure wouldn't have wanted to slow down the better athletes by having the system skewed to make me look better than I was.

We all have different abilities, but those abilities will never be found if schools continue lowering the standards until we all appear to have equal abilities in all classes. It's kind of hard to find your path in life, if you (inaccurately) appear to be good in all things....
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. Being gifted in public school was
hell. I was bored shit-less. I would get my work done in the first ten minutes of class and draw the rest of the time. Only 2 teachers knew what to do,about it. They gave me my own curriculum,than I devoured it.One of my teachers commented to my mom she sometimes had to give me days off because the next lessons had not been delivered to her yet and I was done.. A gifted kid faces challenges when the teachers don't recognize giftedness as giftedness and instead see a restless bored pain in the ass kid.
Also jealousy and resentment makes gifted kids targets .



Is It A Cheetah?

Stephanie S. Tolan, M.A.

A Speech Given at the Hollingworth Conference
for the Highly Gifted, 1992

Stephanie Tolan is one of the co-authors of Guiding the Gifted Child

It's a tough time to raise, teach or be a highly gifted child. As the term "gifted" and the unusual intellectual capacity to which that term refers become more and more politically incorrect, the educational establishment changes terminology and focus.

Giftedness, a global, integrative mental capacity, may be dismissed, replaced by fragmented "talents" which seem less threatening and theoretically easier for schools to deal with. Instead of an internal developmental reality that affects every aspect of a child's life, "intellectual talent" is more and more perceived as synonymous with (and limited to) academic achievement.

The child who does well in school, gets good grades, wins awards and "performs" beyond the norms for his or her age is considered talented. The child who does not, no matter what his or her innate intellectual capacities or developmental level, is less and less likely to be identified, less and less to be served.

A cheetah metaphor can help us to see the problem with achievement-oriented thinking. The cheetah is the fastest animal on earth. When we think of a cheetah, we are likely to think first of its speed. It's flashy. It's impressive. It's unique. And it makes identification incredibly easy. Since cheetahs are the only animals that can run 70 mph, if you clock an animal running 70 mph, it must be a cheetah!

But cheetahs are not always running. In fact, they are able to maintain top speed only for a limited time, after which they need a considerable period of rest.

It's not difficult to identify a cheetah when it isn't running, provided we know its other characteristics. It is gold with black spots, like a leopard, but it also has unique black "tear marks" beneath its eyes. Its head is small, its body lean, its legs unusually long--all bodily characteristics critical to a runner. And the cheetah is the only member of the cat family that has non-retractable claws. Other cats retract their claws to keep them sharp, like carving knives kept in a sheath; the cheetah's claws are designed, not for cutting, but for traction. This is an animal biologically designed to run.

Its chief food is the antelope, itself a prodigious runner. The antelope is not large or heavy, so the cheetah doesn't need strength and bulk to overpower it. Only speed. On the open plains of its natural habitat, the cheetah is capable of catching an antelope simply by running it down.

While body design in nature is utilitarian, it also creates a powerful internal drive. The cheetah needs to run!

Despite design and need, however, certain conditions are necessary for it to attain its famous 70 mph top speed. It must be fully grown. It must be healthy, fit and rested. It must have plenty of room to run. Besides that, it is best motivated to run all out when it is hungry and there are antelope to chase.

If a cheetah is confined to a 10x12 foot cage, though it may pace or fling itself against the bars in restless frustration, it won't run 70 mph.

Is it still a cheetah?

If a cheetah has only 20 mph rabbits to chase for food, it won't run 70 mph while hunting. If it did, it would flash past its prey and go hungry! Though it might well run on its own for exercise, recreation or fulfillment of its internal drive, when given only rabbits to eat, the hunting cheetah will only run fast enough to catch a rabbit.

Is it still a cheetah?

If a cheetah is fed Zoo Chow, it may not run at all.

Is it still a cheetah?

If a cheetah is sick or if its legs have been broken, it won't even walk.

Is it still a cheetah?

And finally, if the cheetah is only six weeks old, it can't yet run 70 mph.

Is it, then, only a potential cheetah?

A school system that defines giftedness (or talent) as behavior, acheivement and performance is as compromised in its ability to recognize its highly gifted students and to give them what they need as a zoo would be to recognize and provide for its cheetahs if it looked only for speed.

When a cheetah does run 70 mph, it isn't a particularly "achieving" cheetah. Though it is doing what no other cat can do, it is behaving normally for a cheetah.

To lions, tigers, leopards--to any of the other big cats--the cheetah's biological attributes would seem to be deformities. Far from the "best cat," the cheetah would seem to be barely a cat at all. It is not heavy enough to bring down a wildebeest; its non-retractable claws cannot be kept sharp enough to tear the wildebeest's thick hide. Given the cheetah's tendency to activity, cats who spend most of their time sleeping in the sun might well label the cheetah hyperactive.

Like cheetahs, highly gifted children can be easy to identify. If a child teaches herself Greek at age five, reads at the eighth grade level at age six or does algebra in second grade, we can safely assume that this child is a highly gifted child. Though the world may see these activities as "achievements," she is not an "achieving" child so much as a child who is operating normally according to her own biological design, her innate mental capacity. Such a child has clearly been given room to "run" and something to run for. She is healthy and fit and has not had her capacities crippled. It doesn't take great knowledge about the characteristics of highly gifted children to recognize this child.

However, schools are to extraordinarily intelligent children what zoos are to cheetahs. Many schools provide a 10x12 foot cage, giving the unusual mind no room to get up to speed. Many highly gifted children sit in the classroom the way big cats sit in their cages, dull-eyed and silent. Some, unable to resist the urge from inside even though they can't exercise it, pace the bars, snarl and lash out at their keepers, or throw themselves against the bars until they do themselves damage.

Even open and enlightened schools are likely to create an environment that, like the cheetah enclosures in enlightened zoos, allow some moderate running, but no room for the growing cheetah to develop the necessary muscles and stamina to become a 70 mph runner. Children in cages or enclosures, no matter how bright, are unlikely to appear highly gifted; kept from exercising their minds for too long, these children may never be able to reach the level of mental functioning for which they were designed.

A zoo, however much room it provides for its cheetahs, does not feed them antelope, challenging them either to run full out or go hungry. Schools similarly provide too little challenge for the development of extraordinary minds. Even a gifted program may provide only the intellectual equivalent of 20 mph rabbits (while sometimes labeling children suspected of extreme intelligence "underachievers" for not putting on top speed to catch those rabbits!). Without special programming, schools provide the academic equivalent of Zoo Chow, food that requires no effort whatsoever. Some children refuse to take in such uninteresting, dead nourishment at all.

To develop not just the physical ability, but also the strategy to catch antelope in the wild, a cheetah must have antelopes to chase, room to chase them and a cheetah role model to show them how to do it. Without instruction and practice, they are unlikely to be able to learn essential survival skills.

A recent nature documentary about cheetahs in lion country showed a curious fact of life in the wild. Lions kill cheetah cubs. They don't eat them, they just kill them. In fact, they appear to work rather hard to find them in order to kill them (though cheetahs can't possibly threaten the continued survival of lions). Is this maliciousness? Recreation? No one knows. We only know that lions do it. Cheetah mothers must hide their dens and go to great efforts to protect their cubs, coming and going from the den only under deep cover, in the dead of night or when lions are far away. Highly gifted children and their families often feel like cheetahs in lion country.

In some schools, brilliant children are asked to do what they were never designed to do (like cheetahs asked to tear open a wildebeest hide with their claws--after all, the lions can do it!) while the attributes that are a natural aspect of unusual mental capacity--intensity, passion, high energy, independence, moral reasoning, curiosity, humor, unusual interests and insistence on truth and accuracy--are considered problems that need fixing. Brilliant children may feel surrounded by lions who make fun of them or shun them for their differences, who may even break their legs or drug them to keep them moving more slowly, in time with the lions' pace. Is it any wonder they would try to escape? Or put on a lion suit to keep from being noticed? Or fight back?

This metaphor, like any metaphor, eventually breaks down. Highly gifted children don't have body markings and non-retractable claws by which to be identified when not performing. Furthermore, the cheetah's ability to run 70 mph is a single trait readily measured. Highly gifted children are very different from each other, so there is no single ability to look for, even when they are performing. Besides that, a child's greatest gifts could be outside the academic world's definition of achievement and so go unrecognized altogether. While this truth can save some children from being wantonly killed by marauding lions, it also keeps them from being recognized for what they are--children with deep and powerful innate differences as all-encompassing as the differences between cheetahs and other big cats. That they may not be instantly recognizable does not mean that there is no means of identifying them. It means that more time and effort are required to do it. Educators can learn the attributes of unusual intelligence and observe closely enough to see those attributes in individual children. They can recognize not only that highly gifted children can do many things which other children cannot, but that there are tasks which other children can do that the highly gifted cannot.

Every organism has an internal drive to fulfill its biological design. The same is true for unusually bright children. From time to time the bars need to be removed, the enclosures broadened. Zoo Chow, easy and cheap as it is, must give way, at least some of the time, to lively, challenging mental prey.

More than this, schools need to believe that it is important to make the effort, that these children not only have the needs of all other children to be protected and properly cared for, but that they have as much right as others to have their special needs met.

Biodiversity is a fundamental principle of life on our planet. It allows life to adapt and to change. In our culture, highly gifted children, like cheetahs, are endangered. Like cheetahs, they are here for a reason; they fill a particular niche in the design of life. Zoos, whatever their limitations, may be critical to the continued survival of cheetahs; many are doing their best to offer their captives what they will need to eventually survive in the wild. Schools can do the same for their highly gifted children.

Unless we make a commitment to saving these children, we will continue to lose them, as well as whatever unique benefit their existence might provide for the human species of which they are an essential part.

Note: Copyright 1995, Stephanie S. Tolan. Properly attributed, this material may be freely reproduced and disseminated.

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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Truly gifted children will find their way themselves
Put that down to personal experience. The whole entire education system is rotten to the core. We learn in spite of it.

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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Too many just despair, feeling like freaks. Even the brightest are KIDS
... and they need what other kids need: good teachers, good support, and a peer group of their own. A peer group where they feel normal, not weird. A peer group where they can do work that is appropriately complex for THEIR stage of growth.

Hekate

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 06:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. I remember reading that article
when I first found out that my son was a gifted/dyslexic. It definitely helped me put in perspective what I was having to deal with.

Kindergarten was a disaster. We didn't know yet that he was dyslexic, but I later found out that the teacher thought he was refusing to learn his letters to spite her. Of course, with a teacher like this, my son was more then happy to be a 'discipline problem'.

The next year, I was very lucky to find a very small alternative school, that does a great job dealing with kids who can't cope in the public school system. We have small, mixed grade classes. The big #1 rule, is that 'no putdowns are allowed'. My son was accepted for who and what he is. Despite the fact that he's now in 8th grade and still requires assistance for reading and writing, it's no big deal to the other kids, that's just the way he is. His friends don't even blink when he can't figure something out and he asks them for help.

At this point, he's a straight A student who loves going to school. What more could I ask for?



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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. How about we just fund education adequately for ALL kids & stop making it a zero-sum game?!
It's a crappy system if you teach only to the great middle, ignoring the very real needs of the very bright and the very un-bright.

It sucks if you think only "special needs" kids are deserving of special attention, and that somehow the very bright will figure out all by themselves how to make it. Actually any number of them just feel like freaks because they really do think differently than everyone else, and a surprising number drop out in despair. What a waste of human potential.

It's counter-productive to use only one style of teaching when there are at least 6 styles of learning.

It doesn't make much sense to require 5+ years of college education to teach K-12 and then pay teachers the lowest starting salaries of any profession. Women have other professional choices beyond teaching and nursing these days -- and they can get paid a LOT more in them.

And it's really, really dumb to cram large numbers of kids into each classroom and expect one harried teacher to handle them all.

I'm a boomer and went through public school K-12 with a very large cohort. Every single year of my life I have heard politicians proclaim how much they value educating our children, and every single year of my life I've heard educators citing study after study showing that kids learn best in SMALL classes. And year after year after year schools scramble and beg for money, and schools get closed if the enrollment declines, because gods forbid we should keep the same number of teachers and give them smaller classes to teach.

I've observed that we PAY for what we value. Apparently what our government (and by extension the rest of us) truly value is building weapons and making war.

Public education is treated like a zero-sum game, where every penny that one group gets is taken away from another group. All I can say is
:argh:

Hekate

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DemExpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I'm with you Hekate.
Edited on Thu Nov-30-06 06:23 AM by DemExpat
:thumbsup:

Factors other than my children's high intelligence influenced the degree of their school successes.

My daughter highly verbal and extrovert did very well and reached the highest levels of ("gifted") education offered here, while my son, equally intelligent by testing, had a much less successful, happy, and satisfying schooling with his more introvert and less verbal makeup.

Great counselling/special attention (which was sorely lacking for him) helping him with his "special needs" would have made all the difference with his school experience, I am convinced.

I want to see ALL children of all levels of intelligence, talent, and need addressed with care and attention.

DemEx

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VenusRising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
23. Absolutely not.
In 8th grade we were required to take tests in order to determine if we would be in honors classes. I had a bad test day. It happens. Because of that one test on that one day, I was placed in normal classes for the following year. It was horrible. I grew increasingly bored and rarely did any homework. Any test we took, I aced.

I said all that to say this: not only should standards not be lowered, but I also suggest that students not be chosen based test scores alone. It should always be overall grades and performance. The dumbing down of America has become more prevalent in the past decade, and now is not the time to continue down that path. I agree that all kids need to have a quality education, but those that are ahead of the rest of the class need to have their special needs met as well.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm a proud Mundane --yay!
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. "gifted" is often a racially charged tag.
It's been documented many times that minority kids are often sent into special ed because of, among other things, poor teacher expectations and subsequent evaluations of kids. And white kids tend to get higher teacher expectations and evaluations.

Until it becomes a real priority to get rid of racism in our education system I find "gifted" programs to be suspect.

1. By making it a priority to get rid of racism I don't mean the "bad-apple" theory of racism where you point at someone, call them an isolated racist, and them pat yourself on the back for getting rid of racism. I mean a serious search for the built-in power dynamics and inequalities that perpetuate racism.

2. No, I am not saying that all, or even most kids in gifted programs don't belong there. I'm simply saying that those programs exist within racist environments, and therefore the way kids get into those programs is tainted.
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bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. I think
that the schools should be set up to allow people to advance more at their own pace - and so that everyone is encouraged to to learn at a rate that is comfortable for them.

I wouldn't have grades or levels of giftedness. I would have milestones that people are trying to pass in various areas.

Students would have some awareness that some people were learning some things faster than others - but if it wasn't like they were in the same "grade" it wouldn't matter, anyway.

There could be certain times that certain levels of a subject would be covered.

I would also have art and music and such available.

People could learn at home or school - whatever worked best - and they could come and go and they pleased (within certain time frames). Some students might do better being at school all day. Some might do better at home.

There could always be privileges to earn, etc. as incentives.

People would be done when they achieved a certain level of competency is basic subjects.

University educations would be free for whomever knew enough to get started.

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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. That would be a great idea
if we could build a practical education system around it. I think a milestone based system could be much more fair, as long as the milestones are reasonable, and it isn't turned into a race.
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pdxmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-30-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
30. My son was first identified as gifted in the state of Virginia when he
was in kindergarten. It made a huge difference, because they actually supplied a pullout program that channeled that brain power. Without it, he would have focused his skills on outsmarting the teacher, who was always his biggest challenge.

We moved here to Oregon, and they have the label, but no program. He may as well not have been labeled, because they did nothing for him and he ended up having huge problems. He wasn't motivated, and he didn't learn to apply himself, because he didn't have to put out any effort to get an A, compared to other kids.

They need to stop looking at the labels and just teach to the kid. Meet the needs of each child, and stop trying to make them conform to some arbitrary norm.

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