Not only is the killer whale a wild animal, the one who "attacked" its trainer was a SLAVE.

[MoonRiver]

Orcas are among the most intelligent and highly evolved of any animal on earth. Yet we kidnap them from their natural habitats, separating them permanently from their complex and very devoted family systems. We then force them to do tricks for our amusement and profit. Yes, they are generally fed and cared for in compensation. But that can obviously NEVER replace what they have lost. We did the same thing to African "natives", and rationalized our actions with arguments similar to those we use to justify the current enslavement of whales, dolphins, and other sentient beings. Some of these include: they're just dumb subhumans/animals; it's tough out there in the bush/ocean, but they're "safe" with us; hey, they get a free meal and pat on the head for a little work.

I believe orcas KNOW what has happened to them. They KNOW we forcefully took them from their families and cultures. The amazing thing is that there aren't more incidents of rebellion among these captives. Like the human slaves of yore, most probably realize it is futile and try to make the best of things.

:cry:

[Botany]

1. Because of some work I got a chance for a meet and greet w/ an Orac ...

... @ a Sea World. I remember that he was not in a good mood and acted very
pissed off. I remember looking @ it's tank where it lived and it's display tank
for the people and felt very sad for him. In the wild the move from Baja California
to off of Alaska and here he was swimming circles in some pool in Geauga Ohio ....
it was sad.

[Shakespeare]

2. They're so intelligent, and so horribly exploited by the theme parks.

I was at Marine World in northern CA a couple of summers ago, and my stepdaughter wanted to see the Orca show. I wasn't wild about it, but we went. The whale was clearly bored and unhappy, and basically refused to do the show. She performed one or two tricks half-heartedly, and kept swimming back to her holding tank. I'd love to see the parks stop these shows completely. They're hazardous for the trainers, and the animals don't deserve to be put through what they're put through for our entertainment.

[Sequoia]

22. Why doesn't PETA stand up for live animals instead of dead animals?

I agree that those shows should be stopped, and zoos should close down too.

[Beaverhausen]

25. ?

http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=63

[Sequoia]

27. You got me.

[The Stranger]

38. Theme parks abuse whales, so it's PETA's fault?

:wtf:

[RiverStone]

74. Agreed!! Sad folks continue to promote this by attending the shows.

[Raster]

3. Free Willy!

[LA lady]

4. Didn't work

He's dead now.

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. Then Fillet Willy!

;)

[onecent]

5. Seems to be almost what dimson is trying to do with the middle

east. I know that's a funny way to look at it. But he thinks he can just give them a free meal and a pat on the back, and we will get flowers.

**** is also forcefully taking these people from their cultures.....Interesting how people mimic animals.

[MoonRiver]

8. It's a good comparison.

There are still a lot of human slaves in the world (UAI is one of the worst examples). "Polite company" just doesn't want to talk about it openly.

[canadianbeaver]

6. Getting rid of all zoo's (animal prisons) and places that use

animals for testing purposes and for supposed scientific studies would be the best thing, we as humans, could do...I do have 2 cats, and probably shouldn't with my views, but I do love them, I do realize that I am selfish keeping them, how do we change? This world has just gone too far to change now. I really can not think of anything, short of an asteroid coming towards earth, that would wake people up enough for the realization that we are an arrogant(among other names) species and need to change our evil(lack of a better word) ways.

[MoonRiver]

10. I have a dog, but believe having a dog and cat is totally different.

They have been domesticated for thousands of years. They often choose to be with humans if they are out in the wild. I've taken in many a stray cat or dog who easily acclimated to my home and definitely did not leave when they could have.

[cali]

13. No. Getting rid of all zoos in NOT the answer.

Indeed, some zoos do an excellent job. furthermore, it's just nutty to suggest that you're being selfish by keeping 2 cats as pets. By your standards, humans shouldn't milk a cow.

[kestrel91316]

14. PETA opposes ALL use of animals (even domestic ones).

They call it exploitation.

I hate animal abuse and needless cruelty as much as the next person, but I can't for the life of me see the problem with keeping domestic animals as pets, as they are intended, or using livestock for what we intend THEM for.

Orcas are wildlife and should not be used as captive entertainment.

[LeftyMom]

39. I can't see a problem with keeping slaves as fieldhands, as they were intended.

I can't see a problem with using guns to kill people, as they were intended for that use.

See why that's a bad argument?

Humans bred some animals for unethical purposes. Others meant well but inadvertently caused great suffering (considering your occupation, I'll spare you examples of congenital defects caused by intentional inbreeding, you already know them.) The question is whether we can be trusted to continue to breed and care for more animals, and our track record as a species suggests that we simply can not.

[The Stranger]

40. Well struck.

[karlrschneider]

61. Some people 'keep' pigs as pets, most people eat them.

Many keep dogs, others eat them. Some even eat cats. I love a good steak but I could never butcher a cow that I had raised and given a name to, yet it's common practice for 4Hers and farm kids who enter their livestock in county fairs. There is a lot of evidence that dogs long ago domesticated humans rather than vice-versa. I'm not trying to make a political or cultural statement, just mentioning some facts that keep this from being a totally black and white issue.

[cali]

64. Considering my occupation?

What on earth are you talking about?

Your ignorancy is exceeded only by your hyperbole and hubris.

I do not support keeping Orcas as entertainment for humans, but the idea that all animal husbandry is bad, or that keeping dogs and cats for pets, demeans them, is fucking ludicrous.

[Solo_in_MD]

47. And I any many thinking people oppose PETA

[fleabert]

59. there are zoos that take in many animals that would be killed otherwise

I agree that only some do an excellent job, but it irks me when people say ALL zoos should shut down. Some are solely concerned with conservation, education, and preservation. Thanks for saying what you did.

[ronnie624]

66. Actually,

from a biological point of view, adult members of one species, drinking the milk of another species, is rather bizarre.

That being said, from time to time, I do enjoy a big bowl of cereal with cows milk.

[JacksonWest]

18. Zoos are not prisons.

It's called conservation. Most animals we see at zoos are endangered. The zoo's preserve the species. Also, lets remember another thing: They're animals. Not humans. I don't believe we should be cruel to them, but a zoo is far from cruel. I don't think an asteroid destroying the earth is a measured response to zoos.

[LeftyMom]

34. Zoos are often cruel not by intent but by virtue of being zoos.

Often the animal's needs for socialization and space can not be met in a zoo, as is the case with elephants, who need great distances to roam to avoid debilitating injuries and arthritis, and the presence of their extended family to maintain psychological health. Many animals are simply shy by nature and harmed by the very thing that makes a zoo a zoo, the constant flood of noisy larval humans gawking at them. Additionally, many animals are bred not as part of species survival plans but merely to draw crowds, and the results can be breeding of animals that are not healthy or stable, such as white tigers.

[fleabert]

60. But some zoos don't do what you are saying.

Some are even sending their elephants to reserves, much to the consternation of the AZA, and take a huge risk in losing their accredition from them. There are zoos that take in many animals that are never put on display, just to save their lives. There are zoos out there that love animals just as much as you do, but see an oportunity to educate the public at the same time they are showing that love.

let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. Most zoo folks I know don't have much respect for theme parks that have animals shows. They respect the people who are directly involved with their care, but not the bottom line folks that only care about how much revenue they bring in.

[PaDem]

28. well now you're sounding like Bill Frist...........

or maybe it's Daniel Quinn.

[canadianbeaver]

72. Yeah.....I am a cat killer.....get real

What arrogant humans we are!! this thread just proves it!! Who the hell do we think we are...This planet is home for all who are born on it...why do humans get to decide who stays and who goes.? There should be a balance...and there isn't. Humans have damaged this planet beyond repair...now thats an Inconvenient Truth eh?

Carry on!! You will anyways, as will everyone else...including myself...but ultimately, I keep things like this on my mind and feel that confinement of anything is wrong...but that would only be true in a perfect world...and since thats not possible..you can always shop at Wallgreens...



:sarcasm:

[Clark2008]

79. Humans DON'T get to decide.

Mother Nature will destroy US if we keep destroying her. Don't you forget it.

BTW, I'm all for zoo's, but I'll agree with you on animal shows. I don't attend them and have never taken my son to one.

-->former chair of the local Humane Society

[canadianbeaver]

81. so true.....mother nature will be takin care of the pests that

continue to rape her on a daily basis....thats fo sho....

[LWolf]

69. Some qualifications:

Zoos serve an important purpose. People who live in more urban/suburban areas and have less wildlife around them can become really disconnected from the rest of the living world. Seeing real animals is a graphic reminder that we share the planet, and perhaps a chance to talk about habitat destruction, etc..

That doesn't mean we have to go out and trap/cage wild animals, though. I know of a small zoo whose animals were all picked up injured, given medical attention, but can't be rehabilitated to the wild because of the severity of the injury or because of desensitization to humans. They have those animals on display; people "adopt" them to help pay for food and care, and they are used for educational programs. They were all North American animals, most local to the area the zoo is in. I saw eagles, owls, wolves, mountain lions, bears, etc.. The eagles had been shot, and could no longer fly.

There are also some places that breed endangered species, and some species whose survival is tied to the zoo system because of disappearing habitat. I used to live near a feline breeding compound who did tours and educational programs. They didn't catch animals and keep them for viewing, they followed a careful breeding program to try to keep them genetically viable. The goal was to grow the population until they could be safely released, similar to the program followed for California Condors.

I guess what I'm doing here is differentiating between viewing caged animals for recreational purposes, and keeping animals for breeding and educational purposes.

As far as domestic animals go, I can tell you that my cats could leave at any time; I'm next to many miles of public land, there's a river a couple of miles away, and they have a kitty door that allows them out whenever they want. They argue over position on their preferred spot to hang out; my bed. My dog's preferred spot is whatever room I'm in. Animals that have been domesticated for 1000s of years have a different relationship with us. I call it family, lol, and that includes my horses.

[PVnRT]

70. So, how do we test medicines?

Come up with a new one, and hope it doesn't kill everyone you inject it into?

Animal testing for new drugs is vital. Take that away, and you better just be happy with what's out there now.

[canadianbeaver]

73. We don't use our minds enough....

Call me a flake or whatever word you would prefer...but I feel we are lazy...to lazy to look inside of ourselves and use the other 70%(not sure of exact percentage here) or more of our brain that we don't...we rely sooo much on pills and outside remedies that we have lost our own abilities to use our mind to control and fix what is wrong with our physical self...

We have been socialized to the point of conformity....if you think outside the box you are considered to be too different and don't fit in.....FIT INTO WHAT...the mold that mass society has labeled me into.

I stand alone...and I am so ok with that!!

Peace is wished for all.....lets get rid of the hate and labels....but alas...fear is the controller of these days...and it looks like it has its claws into every fabric of our lives...

[spoony]

75. We actually use just about all of our brains

The old 10% myth is just that.

[canadianbeaver]

76. The way the world is going....I'd have to disagree.....

We don't use any of our brains.....

:crazy: :sarcasm:

[Annces]

7. A lot of the people who work with orcas in those theme parks really love animals

however I think their mentality is really limited in how they view them, as cutesy pets. I read about the guy who used to train the dolphins for that show "Flipper", and he left because he realized the horrible maltreatment of these dolphins and how miserable they were in human hands. If someone actually dies at a theme park, I suppose they will stop this kind of show.

I was witness to an orca attack when I worked at Sea World. The whale grabbed the guy's leg and pushed him into the side of the wall, and bit through the wet suit. There was no audience to see it.

[kaiden]

26. Please go to www.killerwhaletales.org.

Great organization in Seattle. Send them money.

[mondo joe]

9. But they pale beside the number of dog and cat slaves.

And cows.

And lambie pies.

And gold fish.

[Kingshakabobo]

44. My dog is keeping me as a slave......

She makes me follow her around with a bag to pick up her poop, feed her, pet her, drive her to the park, bathe her, groom her, rub her belly while feeding her treats, pay her medical bills. And for what? Barking at the mail-person and looking cute?

She IS a benevolent dictator...

[MoonRiver]

46. lol! I've got one like that.

Ten solid pounds of trouble! Had me trained in one day flat! :D

[Dorian Gray]

80. My cat's the same way....

she gets what she wants all the time, and my desires and wants are little considered when she's deamnding her due! ;)

Your dog is beautiful!

[SammyWinstonJack]

84. What a face! Too cute!

[happydreams]

11. It does kind of bother me how killer whales

kill baby Sperm Whales who never had a chance. :-(

[JacksonWest]

12. Stop comparing animals in captivity to slaves.

Please. It's a fallacy and it's insulting. I'm sure you're better than that. There are sound arguments for preventing cruelty to animals-comparing their captivity to the most egregious and inhumane periods of American history is not it.

As a conservationist and lifelong friend of animals-you have valid concerns. However, one of the most important reasons to have animals in captivity is to preserve the species and benefit them.

I don't find using a whale to do a variety of tricks in the water as exploitive as making a bear ride a bike. I understand and respect your point of view overall.

[applegrove]

15. Agreed.

[MoonRiver]

17. I respect your view, but disagree.

I'm not saying the enslavement of whales is equally evil to what happened/happens to human slaves, but it is enslavement nonetheless.

I have a problem with you saying that having animals in captivity helps to preserve them. IF we humans weren't destroying their habitats and/or killing off numerous species for stupid reasons we wouldn't have to rescue them.

We do agree on one thing however: I find making a bear ride a bike equally exploitative to forcing whales to do tricks.

[JacksonWest]

20. It's not really enslavement.

Being a slave is something that happens to humans- it's a subversion of the will. While there are similarities in holding an animal in captivity, it's insensitive, in my opinion, to make the comparison. Given the fact that African Americans were brought here and were slaves for almost four hundred years-it makes the two situations sound analogous. Essentially, you could be accused of comparing the plight of Orca whales to African-Americans-which is insulting.

Maybe I'm just being anal.

I'm sorry you have a problem with my statements about holding animals in captivity. However, look at it logically. You can't expect this whole world to do the right thing. Sixty Minutes just did a special about tiger poaching in India. A tiger preserve lost all of it's tigers to poachers. The poachers were impoverished Indians who were selling the skins for a quick buck. Such is the way of the world. It's worth having animals protected in zoos and sea parks to preserve and study the species-in my opinion. Do you trust the world to protect them? Whales are an endangered species as well. As long as money can be made from an animal-it's going to be in danger.

[MoonRiver]

30. I'm aware that I can't save the world. I still do what I can to help.

Human slavery still exists, btw, and the world shuts its collective eye. For instance, tiny boys, 2 to 5 yrs old, are sold or kidnapped to care for and ride camels in the UAI. As we all know many other horrible kinds of human slavery exist, especially in the sex industry.

My husband and I once went to Hong Kong and had an excursion to mainland China. I asked our (Hong Kong based) guide if the Chinese government was working to protect endangered animals. He said, how can we expect a country that doesn't even value human beings to protect animals?

I believe it is analogous to compare the enslavement of animals to that of humans. I don't feel superior to an orca or a bear for that matter. I feel similar sorrow for their torture and despair as I do for that of humans. Sorry, that's just the way I am.

[bobbolink]

54. "How can we expect a country that doesn't even value human beings

to protect animals?"

IN the US, animal rights has always occurred before human rights.

Sign carried by homeless man: "If I was a dog, would you help me?"


~~~~waiting for the attacks by PETA~~~

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. It's not such a bad analogy when talking about such high-intelligence

animals as orca and elephant. They are self aware, and know they are captives. If a species is so endangered that being left in the wild would threaten it with extinction, by all means breed them in captivity, but to keep them as nothing more than show-and-tell is tragic.

We should learn as we evolve.

ON EDIT - deleted a section that made an inappropriate analogy - I apologise to who may have seen it before I dumped it.

[leftchick]

45. And Primates

all of their brains are highly eveolved and they suffer from being imprisoned. Yes, it is indeed slavery.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. Agreed. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. It's a fancy pants fish.

:shrug:

[WilliamPitt]

19. The killer whale didn't go crazy. The killer whale went killer whale.

[MoonRiver]

48. I didn't say he (she?) went "crazy". S/he reacted, imo, the way many enslaved creatures might,

in response to a terrible situation.

By comparison, would you consider a woman who strikes back at an abusive husband simply behaving "like a woman", or reacting to her intolerable situation?

Just asking.

[WilliamPitt]

49. Um...

That was my point.

The line I used is actually stolen from a Chris Rock comedy routine, in which he talks about the tiger who attacked Roy from Sigfreid and Roy. To paraphrase:

"Everyone says the tiger went crazy. That tiger didn't go crazy. That tiger went tiger! The crazy part is that tiger riding around on a bicycle with a Hitler helmet on..."

Etc.

So, as you can see, I agree with you. I suggest you deploy your abusive-husband line on someone who actually isn't supporting your arguments. Cool?

[MoonRiver]

50. Sorry.

Sometimes I am just too literal for my own good.

[WilliamPitt]

51. No worries

Not everyone is a Chris Rock fan. ;)

[MoonRiver]

55. At the risk of revealing my uncoolness,

i've never even heard of him...:hide:

[WilliamPitt]

57. I bet you do know him

[wtmusic]

21. If only it was free like the stingray that killed Steve Irwin

What the orcas "know" is that they're forced to live in a tiny habitat and (possibly) that humans are somehow responsible for that.

No doubt they are more stressed than in the wild.

[leftchick]

23. Whales Have Highly Evolved Brains....

Using ANY wild animals for human entertainment is disgusting.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061127/sc_nm/whales_brains_dc_3

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Humpback whales have a type of brain cell seen only in humans, the great apes, and other cetaceans such as dolphins, U.S. researchers reported on Monday.

This might mean such whales are more intelligent than they have been given credit for, and suggests the basis for complex brains either evolved more than once, or has gone unused by most species of animals, the researchers said.

The finding may help explain some of the behaviors seen in whales, such as intricate communication skills, the formation of alliances, cooperation, cultural transmission and tool usage, the researchers report in The Anatomical Record.

Patrick Hof and Estel Van der Gucht of the Department of Neuroscience at Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York studied the brains of humpback whales and discovered a type of cell called a spindle neuron in the cortex, in areas comparable to where they are seen in humans and great apes.

[HuffleClaw]

29. what i find amusing about this

is it seems to so very often boil down to a simple cry of 'save the BEAUTIFUL animals', all others not need apply. funny how peta and their ilk don't rush to save some species of endangered worm, or picket for the rights of the naked mole rat. noooooo, its always 'save the cute fluffy seal!' or 'protect the friendly dolpins!'.

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. Yup. "Snail Darter? F*ck 'em". n/t

[flvegan]

35. Do you want your award mailed to you, or will you pick it up?

Guess what it's for.

So...beautiful animals are all PETA and "their ilk" are about, eh? How beautiful are chickens to you? How about the sea cucumber, or any fish for that matter? Frogs? Bees? Oh, wait...PETA HAS come to the support of worms. Hmmm...you starting to get my point?

Next time, read up first.

What I really find funny, since you didn't ask, is how folks pull muscles knee jerking their way into dragging fucking PETA into every animal issue there is. It's like some folks don't have a single productive damn thing to say.

[Raine]

43. Also

it always gets me how people that are actually doing something get crapped on because according to some they aren't doing something about the "right thing". :eyes: x(

[Raine]

41. At least PETA is concerned

about them, nobody is stopping you or anyone else from starting up a cause for the ugly or unattractive worms etc.

[The Stranger]

42. You have to start at the beginning.

The intent is to save the rest as well -- I think that is pretty clear.

So, if you don't mind, try to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

[Shakespeare]

52. Yeah, and people aren't lining up to see naked mole rats perform tricks at theme parks.

Slight difference there.

[Roon]

36. STOP THE ANIMAL SLAVERY!!

[flvegan]

37. Check out "Lolita: Slave to Entertainment"

Captivating, enlightening video.

http://www.slavetoentertainment.com/index2.htm

Also, have you seen how the Japanese capture some of these dolphins? It's a slaughter...literally.

[karlrschneider]

53. Some years ago I went with a friend to the Tacoma Zoo and was horrified.

They had a small aquarium and a Beluga whale inside it was swimming 'laps', the identical path around the tank, past the window. The poor creature was probably insane from its confinement...later we saw 2 elephants chained to stakes in the ground. They displayed similar behavior...lifting one free leg over and over....and over and over, staring into space unable to move more than 3 or 4 feet. I can't even describe how sad and angry that made me.

[MoonRiver]

56. OMG, how incredibly horrible.

Reminds me of one of the wolf "sanctuaries" in Alaska I had the misinformed misfortune to visit once. These creatures are chained with only about a 10 foot radius to range. When I confronted them about this horror, the owners said'oh, they don't care, we take them out for walks every few days.'
:argh:

[knitter4democracy]

62. I went to one of those, too. Cried for days afterwards.

Made me physically ill. There was one who was going nuts, pacing and pacing, so unhappy. The lady had shown us how to "greet" them, and when I did, she warned me that he wasn't in a good mood. Not only did he go frantic but he started howling and looking so sad. They couldn't let him go, for some reason, since he was a dog/wolf hybrid, but he was miserable. I wish I could have taken him home with me and given him more space to run and be himself. Sad.

[MoonRiver]

63. Alaska shouldn't promote these horror shows as tourist attractions.

When we went to AK I already knew I wanted to see the Musk Ox Farm (which was absolutely AWESOME). Anyway, in tourist brochures I also saw wolf "sanctuaries" advertised, so I though that should be just as awesome - NOT. Sadly, when I asked them about the wolf sanctuary, the wonderful volunteers at the Musk Ox Farm told me that they don't approve of keeping wolves in captivity. I then had misgivings, but unfortunately, out of curiosity, ignored the Musk Ox folks concerns and went. It will remain one of those things I wish I had never seen.

[knitter4democracy]

71. I loved the Musk Ox farm.

Of course, I'm a knitter and spinner, so it was right up my alley. I loved it. The wolf "sanctuary" was horrible, though. I still can see his eyes, that poor thing.

[knitter4democracy]

58. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

I wish they'd let that one go. Apparently, she's attacked that trainer before and another one another time. She doesn't want to be there.

[NuttyFluffers]

65. funny, i loathe orcas like some loathe cockroaches...

just a thing. can't really explain it. but LOVE jellyfish and octopi. it's an interesting thing how other people find these orca things cuddly and more important than a beautiful medusa. personal tastes i guess. oh well...

though i may not share it, in any remote fashion at all, i do acknowledge your concern! :7 :hi:

[symbolman]

67. I agree, they are SLAVES

Imagine living the rest of your life in basically a CLOSET, compared to what they may or did know in the OCEAN?

These animals MAY be MORE intelligent than Humans are capable of understanding. For Christ sakes, Whales have been around for 80 MILLION years, about 79 Million BEFORE WE Climbed down out of the trees.

I lived in Alaska for ten years and the native folks there (who EAT THEM for food), respect them MORE than we do. They complained that going to PODS and taking some of the Orcas was equivalent to walking down the street in the suburbs and kicking in doors, to drag off Aunts, Uncles, Mothers and Fathers for SERVITUDE, shorthand for Slavery.

Some consider cetaceans to be "godheads" swimming around out there meditating, having no need for war, as the ocean is bountiful. And I happen to have realized living in Hawaii and being around the Humpbacks that they have "NAMES" they've given to themselves and each other. They 'sign off' after a communication with their Moniker, or Name.

A Dolphin can "look" at people Holographically, they don't just SEE like we do, they sonogram a person, and can realize if that person is Stressed, has High Blood Pressure, a TUMOR, is Depressed, etc, etc.

If you dip a lead coin in Gold, and throw both a same size gold coin and the lead one in a tank they can immediately tell the difference. Try THAT without looking or picking it up in your hand to feel the miniscule atomic weight.

As far as I'm concerned, they are PEOPLE, or maybe better than people in many ways.

I swam with some dolphins last year with my 14 month old son, and he loved it, me too - you come away feeling HAPPY as hell. They are actually HEALING some depressed folks, AND Autistic, or Retarded kids, even cancer kids by swimming with dolphins. They can apparently Locate misfiring synapses and CORRECT them IN your SKULL.

What they do to these beautiful creatures is an abomination, and I wish they'd stop it.

You got MY vote, friend. As a matter of fact, we're at the In Laws now for the holiday and I can't WAIT to get back to Hawaii in the next few days and go greet my pals in the ocean there. :)

[MoonRiver]

68. Thanks for that wonderful and informative post!

I agree that in many ways these creatures are FAR superior to we warmongering, brain stem stuck, humans.

p.s. Sounds like you have an absolutely awesome life in Hawaii! :hi:

[elehhhhna]

77. Aw, sman, ya had me then ya lost me.

WTH are you doing swimming with the dolphins, dude? It's still forced- animaltainment. If you want to commune with nature on her own terms, getcherasss down to the Caymans and just snorkle. Or snorkle in Hawaii. Whatever.

The giant eagle rays, octopus, sea turtles, etc. may not be as clever as dolphin, but having them come to you, in their habitat, of their own volition, is worth the trouble.

Sorry if this scolding seems harsh and undeserved. My beloved Grand Cayman is seriously considering putting in a dammned Dolphin Exploitation park and dolphin don't even frequent their waters. It ain't right.

[asthmaticeog]

82. Holographically?

Huh?

[AZBlue]

78. Anyone who participates in turning an animal into a parlor trick deserves what they get.

Anyone.

[gravity]

83. Does anyone care about the seals?

If you remove one orca, it would probably save 100 cute seals in the wild. I'm not advocating this, I'm just saying that killer whales get that name for a reason, and they aren't the most humane animals ever. Had they ever considered veganism?

I don't think it is right to compare the trainers to slave owners. Most trainers and zookeepers very passionate and care very deeply about the animals they care for. They don't choose their jobs because they like exploiting animals for profit, but because they love the animals that they work with. The conditions of animals in captivity improved a whole lot over the years, and try to provide the best conditions for the animals given their situations. Zoos and aquariums also provide education for the public and help get support for conservation programs in the wild.