What happens when we leave Iraq? Why won't anyone talk about it?

[ShaneGR]

I'm torn. I opposed going in. I hate Bush for sending us down this path. But what happens when we leave?

What happens to the Kurds? Long opressed by Saddams Sunni regime, finally able to rule themselves. What will happen to them? Will the Turks invade from the north? Will the Shi'ites and Sunni's respect those same borders? The only protection they have right now is the US Military and themselves.

What happens with the Sunni? A bad history, for sure, with Saddam. But does that mean they should be subjected to a bloodbath from the Shi'ite majority? We've already killed hundreds of thousands of them? But whats left to protect them from a genocide if the US Military leaves?

What happens with the Shi'ites? Clear to fill the power vacuum after US withdrawl. Run by religious fanatics hellbent on the destruction of all things western? Should we call that Western Iran? And keep in mind, they might win a civil war vs the Sunnis but both sides lose huge numbers in the end.


The point of these questions and my own statements is, no one is really talking about this. What does it really mean to call for the total pullout of US soldiers from Iraq. What is likely to happen? I didn't even mention the ramifications concerning a region wide war. What would be the ramifications for the state of Israel? I opposed this war, and always have, but I'm scared that I'll feel worse if we pull everything out and a couple million die in a year. We've already killed 600,000 in Iraq, what if that gets tripled after we leave? I just don't know what to think.

[Deja Q]

1. Or the oil wells.

Not to sound dispassionate, but to look at the whole picture isn't a pretty sight and we've already seen some very unpretty sights.

[bowens43]

2. They need to work it out themselves.

whatever happens , happens.

[JuniperLea]

5. Bingo

It's their business... and non of them asked for our help.

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. Doesn't the majority of Iraqis want us to leave? Either immediately or ASAP?

[LSK]

3. I think the Turks can be restrained by their desire to join the EU

The other things you mention IS ALREADY HAPPENING. So there will be no change from what is going on right now.

Another point is that 100,000 contractors will leave Iraq and they will be forced to rebuild their country. Busy employed Iraqis are less likely to cause trouble versus unemployed Iraqis.

[LSK]

4. more importantly, the US CANNOT AFFORD TO STAY THERE

We have lost almost 3000 soldiers.

We have spent $350billion. That has to be BORROWED FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

We have lost credibility and support from abroad.

America cannot afford to continue to stay there. PERIOD.

[Monkeyman]

6. Your Missing something 23,000 wounded and one out of four with PTSD

Out now Replugs are not taken care of ours when they come home. Plus Iraq will figure it out

[ShaneGR]

7. We'll be equally hated for just leaving....

Especially if there's a complete bloodbath and a widened war. I liked what you said about putting the Iraqis to work, I have serious doubts if that's the reality though. It's a good point none the less.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. I think the idea that we can't leave...

because the country will fall apart without us is ludicrious.

The idea that we're their to help the Iraqis strikes me as just as stupid as being their for WMDs, or because of 9-11.

[malaise]

26. Bingo

Being there didn't stop the slaughter of another 100 Iraqis yesterday.
665,000 dead Iraqis and people are still suggesting that the US presence is saving lives.:shrug:

[Cleita]

9. They were talking about it on Al Franken this morning.

One of the things they brought up is that any Iraqi who helped the Americans would be killed and yet there seems no plan to get Visas for these people and evacuate them.

:cry: It's going to be nasty any way you look at it and our WH geniuses don't have a clue about what to do.

[LSK]

11. I dont understand all this "is going to happen" talk

It is happening RIGHT NOW.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. ever see Disney's lemmings' flick?

just before the off-camera disney employee was shoving them off the cliff, imagine the last thought that crossed any lemming's mind.

[godless]

12. It is what it always was...

Iraq has always been a nation that was "cobbled" together by an outside force, namely Britain. It was a nation that was forced upon peoples who's animosity towards one another goes back for many, many centuries. The only way that this "nation-state" has ever been a viable country was thru the use of extreme force and coercion by whatever despot held the reigns of power at that time. The removal of Saddam without either an equally connected and heavy-handed dictator in the wings to take his place or enough troops to secure the peace in that country until one could be found was either an act of sheer folly and ignorance or a deliberate attempt to totally destabilize the Middle East for reasons that remain a secret.

What we are witnessing now is decidedly a Civil War and in spades. It has been waiting patiently in the wings, since the birth of the country, for it's season to finally come around. Thanks to Dummyew, Spring has finally given way to Summer, and the battle for control of the ersatz country and it's enormous wealth has now been engaged in ernest. In the blistering heat of the long forstalled Iraqi Summer, our military and it's inept Commander-In-Chief are now totally irrelevant. This struggle for supremacy and revenge will continue no matter what we do. We can "stay the course" or we can leave tomorrow. Either way the end result is going to be a bloodbath of historical proportions. To my mind the only decision that our leaders are actually left with is exactly how many innocent American lives will eventually wind up in the body count.

[LSK]

20. welcome to DU

That sums up my take on the situation.

[newyawker99]

27. Hi godless!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[leftchick]

13. I think the US should leave

everone says chaos will reign if we leave Iraq. I say it is chaos now and we need to get the hell out. Let's try it and see how the Iraqis handle Iraq on their own. I would bet a lot of money it would not be anywhere near as bad as now.

[godless]

18. Nowhere near as bad as it is now

Many years ago I was told by a Special Ops guy that I had befriended in a bar in Tampa Florida that the reason for the Vietnam War was that the C.I.A. wanted to retain control of the opium coming out of the Golden Triangle and keep all that untraceable cash from falling into the hands of the Communists. You see, as he explained to me, this aforementioned "untraceable cash" is really the life's blood of every Intelligence Service of every nation on the planet. According to him they (the Mossad, the C.I.A., The KGB, etc.) all finance their various covert operations thru drug smuggling. He also pointed out to me that, after we withdrew from Saigon, heroine suddenly became as scarce as Dodo birds on the streets of America and the market was flooded with Cocaine supplied by the Medillin Cartel, a group of Columbian drug-runners that he assured me had been organized by the then acting Director of the C.I.A., none other than Daddy Bush. According to him the reason for the war was ensure the continued flow of large amounts of untraceable cash tor America's many covert organizations. The war was only called off after the means to stem the flow of Asian Heroine had been put in place and a pipeline to an equally addctive drug had been established.

I think the same pricipal is in opertion here. Our involvement in Iraq will only end when the guys in charge have established a new energy pipeline to safely take the place of Midle Eastern oil. In point of fact I think that our latest War of Liberation has nothing at all to do with spreading "Democracy" and everything to do with throwing the Middle East into political turmoil, no doubt to buy us the time necessary to establish the new oil pipeline. Iraq Study Group, Gates Nomination, all nothing more than spin tactics to buy more time to achieve the real goal. Our involvement in Iraq will end only after the Masters are confident that they have the mechanisms in place to continue as always. Only then will we abandon those poor and beleagured people to finally work out their collective fate without our meddling.

[Ms. Clio]

19. very interesting n/t

[leftchick]

25. I agree completely

and I just happened upon this excellent summary of the premeditation of both wars we are in. Check it out and welcome. :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3004364

[aquart]

14. People are going to die. That's what's going to happen.

And there is not one damn thing we can do about it except invent a time machine and go back and NOT INVADE. These people were all dead from that moment. Anyone who didn't realize that was a fool.

So don't waste your time being "torn." Leave or stay, THEY ARE STILL GOING TO DIE AND IT'S OUR FAULT. It won't be less our fault if we send another 1,000 or 100,000 soldiers in.

Nothing has a chance of getting better until we go. And someone else will have to be the honest broker because we've thrown away that privilege.

Don't ask someone to be the last man to die for your guilty conscience.

[thethinker]

15. They will live in peace

Many of us can remember Viet Nam. I was very young, but I remember people said we couldn't leave because it would be a bloodbath. Well, it wasn't. That was the excuse, for what seemed like years, to stay in Viet Nam.

The Iraqi people do not want us there. They are perfectly intelligent people that can manage their own affairs. What inflated egos Americans have to think they can't manage without us. They managed just fine for thousands of years without us. They have oil that they can sell and put their people back to work. They will be much better off than other places America has invaded through the years.

[Generator]

17. Wow. Don't worry I'm sure we will be there until at least 2009

You know after the elections. Because as we know, the most important thing to politicians is themselves. But let's see. How about it's not our responsiblity to run the world? How about our military is actually used to defend the United States of America? It's a horrible mistake. We keep making these horrible mistakes. How about we answer my first two questions there and stop making them. Let's leave the world alone. I don't think we can run the world. War changes nothing. WE cannot tell others how to live. It didn't work in Vietnam and it ain't working here.

Of course people are taking about this. That's the Republican motto. We cannot abdandon Iraq. They (and many Democrats) have said this for years. And the war goes on and the inveitable is going to happen. Do you and I pay tax dollars to fight Iraq's civil war for them? Apparently I do. I think it's insane.

[Ksec]

21. Which is why we should have never gone in.

The Iraqis should have been allowed to work out their own problems. And now that weve done their dirty work and got rid of Saddam, they seem to be waiting on us to bail them out even further . Thats their problem now. I dont feel the need to rescue them when they have able bodied men who can do it themselves.

[MadMaddie]

22. We need to give Visa's to the Iraqi's who attempted to help

build the new * government...because they surely will be murdered if we leave them......I heard a comparison to the Khemer Rouge if we leave ...(Heard this on Al Franken and I agree)


Once we get those out that have helped and those civilian that want to leave....


the chips will fall where they may...This sounds cold and heartless but the situation is beyond the US control now...the * Chimpy cabal blew it, the window has closed and Civil War is happening...

May * Chimpy cabal burn in hell for the horrors they have caused the Iraqi's and the world.....

[dysfunctional press]

23. have you ever read the revelations...?

something kinda like that, apparently. but without so much jesus.

[Clarkie1]

24. This is why the focus needs to be on a political solution, not troop levels.

Discussing timetables and troop levels is putting the cart before the horse. We can't win Iraq militarily, but we can throw the region into an even bloodier chaotic mess if we simply focus on timetables for troop withdrawl without making sure we've done all we can to help the security and leverage whatever real political solution can be achieved.

We have our responsibilities, until they ask us to leave. The Iraqi government has not done that, yet. A good start for discussion would be to state unequivocally as Clark has suggested that there will be no permanent bases in Iraq, and Iraqi oil will be just that....the Iraqis oil. Then work the region diplomatically with a team over there for however long it takes, not just a meeting for a couple of hours. The focus should be on achieving a political solution so the U.S. troops can be withdrawn without enabling an even bloodier mess by the security vacuum left in their wake.