So that was the big Mars announcement? Whoop-de-fucking-do

[BushOut06]

NASA holds issues a BREAKING NEWS story, saying that satellite photos from hundreds of miles in space show that water "may" have "recently" flowed freely on the surface? And we're supposed to get excited over this? Hell, I guess this justifies spending billions of taxpayer dollars on some wasteful manned mission to look for little critters.

Wake me up when one of the ground surveyors falls into a lake or something. We've been hearing "reports" of water on the Moon, Mars, Titan, and Uranus for years now.

[Richardo]

1. I'd rather we'd have spent $350 billion on space exploration...

...than Iraq.

[terrya]

17. You posted exactly what I was thinking.

I think space exploration is in our country's best interests. I think space exploration is extremely important. Better than shovelling billions into a quagmire in Iraq, that's for goddamned sure.

[lectrobyte]

20. Exactly my thoughts, too.

[BushOut06]

22. Personally, I'd rather spend that money on feeding the poor

Or helping to find a vaccine for AIDS. Or even coming up with a better weather or earthquake forecasting system. Or finding a way to deflect the Apophis asteroid that might make all these discussions moot in a few decades.

Hell, even shoring up Social Security would be a good use of 350B.

[Richardo]

23. No arguments here.

But I'd put space exploration ahead of a lot of other crap, and it wouldn't even have to be $350 billion.

[terrya]

25. I can't argue with that.

Of course those are good things. Definitely increase AIDS funding. I'd also add more money for alternative energy sources.

If we pulled out of Iraq, and cut the Defense budget and revoked the tax cuts, we could do all of these things. Including space exploration. The budget priorities right now are very seriously fucked up.

[PVnRT]

46. So how about all that $$$$ going to the Pentagon?

I guess we can't touch any of that, eh?

[LSK]

36. well not the whole $350 billion, but you have a point

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

2. Last report you mention is true. Happens every time I eat mayonnaise that's been out too long. -nt

[Dr.Phool]

6. A Little Imodium will take care of water on Uranus.

:toast:

[jgraz]

16. Ba-dum -Boom

I'd say rimshot, but that would just encourage you.

:evilgrin:

[Jed Dilligan]

29. You know, someone always beats me to it.

I guess that proves DUers are "on the run" and "hot to trot"!

ba dum boom.

[Lex]

3. For the people working on that project, it's huge.

For people getting shot at in Iraq, not so much.

All depends on perspective and the Maslow hieracrhy thingie.

[annabanana]

4. Well... If it is (or was) water

That means that hydrogen and oxygen exist somewhere besides on Earth. It signifies.

[951-Riverside]

5. They always pull that stunt.

With that said I'd rather spend money on space exploration than war.

[BOSSHOG]

7. They are now trying to find intelligent life forms in the white house

That has proven a much more difficult task then a liquid on Mars; as bush breaks into song - You promised me the Moon, but I got Uranus!!

[Book Lover]

8. A) This is not a manned mission

B) So sorry that the discovery by humans of *anything* on a ball of rock 60+ million miles away isn't enough of a miracle for you.

Cm'on people. I know that we are still sliding around in this amazing technological and scientific boom, but have decades of swift advance *really* created this much ennui?!

[adnelson60087]

9. Pure science is being done and someone is bitching?

Are you nuts? We need more science funding....if life past or present is ever confirmed on Mars or anywhere else, then the way we humans look at evolutionary processes will be forced to change as never before. Profound stuff this is....

[BushOut06]

27. Profound yes - but will it feed the poor, protect our cities, etc?

Even if we found out that life exists in microbial form elsewhere, how does that really impact our lives here on Earth? Practically speaking, that is?

I'm all for exploring the universe, and finding out about the evolution of life throughout the universe, etc. I'm not against that. But we have far more pressing matters that we need to attend to here on Earth first. The planets and everything else out there will always be there. They're not going anywhere. We're not in a big rush.

[Hosnon]

38. The point is...you NEVER know. What if they find life that is 1000% times

more efficient at storing food/energy than anything we've ever seen? Then that discovery allows us to create some form of food or supplement that provides sustenance to billions for pennies?

I say march on down the scientific road. The worst that can happen is that the only benefit we receive is pure knowledge (without practical application).

[adnelson60087]

43. I love your point

and endorse it entirely. Life is opportunity, and science helps us to pursue that opportunity to heights often undreamed of. Again, I don't see this as a zero-sum argument...we can help us all via science....

[adnelson60087]

42. Actually, we are in a rush...

The sooner science can deliver some of these pieces of news, the sooner and more likely it will be the majority of the humanity will stop, pause, and begin to question some of what they believe to be important. I am personally looking for another spark to kindle a 21st century Renaissance. Those pressing matters of poverty and illness have been with us since the start of time, and the only lasting impacts on them have arisen from humanity reaching beyond itself via science and enlightenment. Who knows how we'll reach that enlightenment....but I think this sort of research is a part of it.

[Warpy]

10. Think of the implications for the fundies

After all, free flowing water signifies there may be reservoirs under the surface in aquifers, lava tubes, and what have you. Water, even deep under the surface in Antarctica, has always been found with bacteria at the very least.

Finding even primitive life that we can recognize as such, meaning water based life, on another planet will remove the last vestige of fantasy they have that the universe circulates around the Earth and that the Earth is the only planet with a god capable of creating life.

[unpossibles]

19. assuming that the fundies and young earthers would listen, read, or

understand the evidence. Of course, they'll just claim the evidence was faked or put there by Satan or something equally stupid and continue to believe what they choose to believe.

At least that's what they do for every other discovery which should shut them up for good - see, that's why they are NOT scientists; they do not use new evidence to restructure their hypotheses.

[adnelson60087]

44. Good point, but notice that Fundies are definitely in the

minority of people in America, and that number will only decrease over time as more and more science is uncovered.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. What, exactly, were you expecting?

[Gregorian]

18. Little green men.

Nothing less.

[Deep13]

12. That's not really what the report said.

Don't get too bogged down in semantics. These are scientists not lawyers. The discovery indicates that water flowed on the surface of Mars as recently as a few (<10) years ago. They did not see it happening, so they described it in qualitative terms. Still, this is far more definitive evidence than anything previously seem. If Tom and Katie are ever newsworthy, then this is unquestionably front-page-above-the-fold stuff. If life is discovered on Mars, and liquid water changes that probability from a long shot to even odds, it will be the most significant biological discovery since evolution.

[RedG1]

13. water flowed freely on the surface of New Orleans...

re-route the funding to help there...jeez

[ClintonTyree]

24. I'm with you....

water MIGHT have flowed on Mars. We KNOW it inundated New Orleans and there just doesn't seem to be enough money to rebuild NOLA or the rest of the Gulf Coast. They're guessing about the water thing on Mars, and that will have what effect upon humans within the next 10 years? :eyes: Take care of things on Earth first.
Hell, look at the way we've screwed up this planet. Now we want to start on another one? :shrug: Doesn't make sense to me.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. All science funding, or just NASA? n/t

[Ian David]

14. Why do you want to give aid and comfort to the Martians, Mr. Proxmire? n/t

[HughMoran]

15. Sounds like big news

Recent water flow is exciting...

[BushOut06]

21. Except they don't really know - they just THINK it might have

Big difference. From what I've read, they're drawing their conclusions from photos taken from a satellite, not any actual ground observations. Scientists have been wrong about this sort of stuff plenty of times.

Besides, there have been reports like this in many scientific magazines over the past few years. It's pretty widely accepted among scientists that water probably existed on Mars at one point, and may even exist in ice form at the poles or under the surface. It's not like one of the surface probes came across a flowing stream or a standing puddle of water.

[Deep13]

33. There is photographic evidence...

...of deposits left by water that was not there 10 years ago. The case for water on Mars has been building with each discovery. If the steps to demonstrate that conclusively are 1-100, previous discoveries put it at maybe 60. This brings it to 99.

[cynatnite]

26. Water usually means life...

That's my understanding. If water did in fact exist on Mars chances are life did, too. With proof of life on Mars it would mean more RW nutjob fundy heads exploding. Now, I think a few bucks of taxpayer money is worth that. Don't you? :rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

30. Your Serious? Wow.

If you were around during the 60's, you'd probably think "A Man On The Moon? Whoop-de-#*$)@-do"

Space exploration is one of the most important endeavors of humanity.

It will help solve the problems that will affect us all: Global Warming, Energy Crisis, Shortage of Resources, and just plain understanding ways to live better in the small fragile world we are all part of.

Yes, there are always going to be immediate problems: hunger, poor, disease, war, oppression, intolerance, racism, crime, etc., etc. These need to be attended to and given full resources to address.

As President John F. Kennedy said, "All this will not be finished in the first hundred days. Nor will it be finished in the first thousand days, nor in the life of this administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin."

[zreosumgame]

31. what you have seen were reports of water vapor in various places

Actual flowing water causing erosion (which determines how the areology happened) really is fairly big news.

[Hosnon]

32. Here's the deal:

Just don't pay attention until the ground-breaking result. However, don't belittle the thousands of steps involved to reach that result.

I'm sure all that nuclear work wasn't nearly as cool as the bomb actually going off. But that doesn't mean it was any less important.

[zreosumgame]

35. the problem is NASA has bungled publicity for so long

nobody really expects much from them now. they have let politics be their only priority I doubt they can do much more then barely get to orbit and sometimes land anymore.

[Hosnon]

37. I admit they have their problems but that says nothing about the utility of the science.

And I don't think "nobody really expects much from them now."

The ISS provides reams of useful information to advance modern science, medicine in particular, a new planet-spotter is due to launch soon, the Hubble is still taking amazing shots (and without it, the origins of the universe would not be as clear) and those two little rovers are still checking out Mars even though they are waaaaaaaay passed their expected shelf-life.

I'll admit to being a NASA/space junkie which may increase my bias but, objectively, NASA is far from incompetent.

[zreosumgame]

39. I was not talking of the science, which is VERY valuble

but the way they have let politics make every basic decision. the 'shuttle' is the worst compromise I can think of. The fact is NASA did everything they could to make space boring and inaccessable to the general public. It was meant to be a public endevour but the military is the big priority. So we have the myth of the 'right stuff'. The work is important, but the agency sucks ass.

[Hosnon]

40. Oh...well I wasn't talking about the politics but the science:) Guess that's that, huh? Haha. nt

[Deep13]

34. There is a real anti-scientific streak among present day liberals.

I can't say among progressives since the progressive movement was defined in part by a movement away from traditional ways of thinking and towards verifiable science. One of the foundational scientific principles is that while opinion and personal beliefs are democratic, objective fact is not. This implicit understanding drove much of the progessive movement by placing regulation into the hands of experts rather than allowing citizens to fend for themselves. Now I find liberals scoffing at evidence and prefering personal belief or opinion and often phrasing it in terms of personal autonomy.

[DireStrike]

41. It's a problem among Americans, period

I think it grew from a combination of "indivindualism" being placed on a pedestal, and the decline of our literary culture and its replacement by television.

[robcon]

45. I think it was a HUGE announcement.

It's a strong reason to send people to Mars.

One of the most important announcements of the decade.... by anyone.