The Ancient Origins of Christmas

[Jcrowley]

Ancient origins of Christmas

Man, Myth & Magic is an illustrated encyclopedia of mythology and religion. In its article on Christmas, we uncover a treasure trove of research material on this holiday's origins and history. "Christmas has its origin in two ancient pagan festivals, the great Yule-feast of the Norsemen and the Roman Saturnalia. Extending from Advent, which begins on 30 November or the Sunday nearest to it, to Candlemas Day on 2 February, it was close enough to the winter solstice to acquire many of the associations of the Norse ceremony: the Yule-log, the evergreen decorations in houses and churches, even the Christmas feast itself. These elements were combined with the Saturnalia of the Romans to provide the basis for the early Christian festival.

"During the Saturnalia, gifts were made by the wealthy to the poor in honour of the golden age of liberty when Saturn ruled the known world, and slaves were allowed to change places and clothing with their masters. They even elected their own mock king who, for the period of the festival, ruled as a despot. The Saturnalia involved the wildest debauchery, and was a festival worthy of Pan himself.

"Naturally it came under heavy censure from the early Church and despite the fact that Jesus Christ and the saints gradually replaced the pagan deities it was long considered completely out of character with the Christian ideal. However, the festival was far too strongly entrenched in popular favour to be abolished, and the Church finally granted the necessary recognition, believing that if Christmas could not be suppressed it should be preserved in honour of the Christian God" (1995, Vol. 3, p. 418).

Do you grasp what this is telling us? We saw earlier that the Dec. 25 date for Christmas came from ancient pre-Christian festivals. Here we see that the same ancient pagan celebrations honoring other gods were continued, with the Catholic Church simply relabeling the festivities and customs as Christian!

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/gn/gn055/christmas.htm

[Warpy]

1. Actually, it was the people who swapped things around

and turned their beloved festivals into Christian ones. The Church had to lump it or risk losing all their converts and thus their power.

We can see the same thing at work more recently in Santeria and Voodoo. The old Yoruba religion is fairly intact, but the panoply of gods have been given the names of Catholic saints.

What most people think of as mainstream Christianity is still the old religions and festivals glued onto what was a minor Jewish sect.

[NMDemDist2]

2. and this bit kinda says it all IMO

Jesus Himself might repeat to you what He said to the Pharisees, who considered their traditions and customs more important than obeying God's Word: "These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:8-9). Christmas, mentioned nowhere in the Bible, is a "commandment" of men.

[bobbolink]

3. A powerful post.

Thank you.

[NMDemDist2]

5. hello bobbo!!!

hope you're staying warm and dry

Merry Christmas and I am sending the warmest wishes for you to have a peaceful and safe 2007

[bobbolink]

9. Hey! Good to "see" you!

I'm warm, and mostly dry (not a drop of wine), thank you. I'm guessing you are the same. ~~chortle~~

I finally got my car dug out yesterday. For a couple of days, all that was visible was the door handles. Above and below that faded into the background, which was distinctly a dazzling white.
(Could someone please dial down the sun for a bit--on all that white, it a bit hard on the eyeballs..hehehe)

I was very fortunate.... I was on the "other side of the mountain", taking some things to a friend, and they informed me that the storm was on it's way (I had no idea), and insisted that I stay with them and ride it out. I really hate to think what would have happened had I been sleeping in my car, and couldn't get out---talk about claustrophobia!

We were all penned in the house for a couple of days (snow up to the windows!), and apparently the water useage from everyone being here stressed the well pump, and we had no water. I even brought in snow for the dogs to drink. It was pretty, but..well, ...exciting... ~~guffaw~~

Thank you for your well-wishes--they are returned 10-fold to you!

bobbolink

[NMDemDist2]

11. i'm so glad to hear you were safe and warm

i was really worried about you!

:hug:

[RestoreGore]

4. The Catholic Church hierarchy was looking to convert Pagans

So they did what they do best, take it for themselves...And I also believe that with all of the calendar changes, Jesus's true birthday is January 6. Although, some believe his birthday could even be in April, and actually if you read the Biblical accounting of the night of his birth, shepherds were out tending their flocks by night... hard to do in the dead of of winter there.

[aquart]

6. Gosh. You noticed.

The Yule Feast and the Saturnalia....hmmm. Same damn party to me.

May I recommend Frazier's The Golden Bough? The truncated one volume version sold in bookstores is a good beginning.

Thing is, even the Saturnalia is probably a rewrite of an older festival. They partied hearty in the Mediterrannean basin, among other places, and if the gods changed, they just changed the names and justifications and partied on.

[Bigmack]

7. Nobody even mentions Mithra...

... these days! We should go back to the "old time religion".

Here's another piece on Xmas origins.

THE ORIGIN OF AMERICAN CHRISTMAS MYTH AND CUSTOMS

B. K. Swartz, Jr.

Fundamentally Christmas celebration is based on the intertwining of two ethnic patterns, Roman transition rites and Germano-Celtic Yule (jiuleis) rites-feasting and mortuary practice. First known use of the word Christes-Maess was in England, 1038. The English titled Feast Days with Mass Days. No Saint's day listed for December 25th. Abbreviation Xmas; X is Greek Chi, the first letters of Christmas...

http://www.bsu.edu/web/01bkswartz/xmaspub.html

[King Coal]

8. In the Methodist Church, where I grew up we we taught this.

In Confirmation Class, my intro to Theology, we were taught this very fact. We we taught that Jesus was actually born in the Spring. It makes little difference to me.

[bobbolink]

10. You Methodists... just a bunch of libruls

:rofl:

:hi:

[King Coal]

15. Baptists that can read.

:hi:

[Jcrowley]

12. Why Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on December 25

Why Jesus Christ Wasn't Born on December 25

History convincingly shows that Dec. 25 was popularized as the date for Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it was already popular in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun.
But is it possible that Dec. 25 could be the day of Christ's birth?
"Lacking any scriptural pointers to Jesus's birthday, early Christian teachers suggested dates all over the calendar. Clement . . . picked November 18. Hippolytus . . . figured Christ must have been born on a Wednesday . . . An anonymous document(,) believed to have been written in North Africa around A.D. 243, placed Jesus's birth on March 28" (Joseph L. Sheler, U.S. News & World Report, "In Search of Christmas," Dec. 23, 1996, p. 58).
A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that Dec. 25 is an unlikely date for Christ's birth. Here are two primary reasons:
First, we know that shepherds were in the fields watching their flocks at the time of Jesus' birth (Luke 2:7-8). Shepherds were not in the fields during December. According to Celebrations: The Complete Book of American Holidays, Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night" (p. 309).
Similarly, The Interpreter's One-Volume Commentary says this passage argues "against the birth (of Christ) occurring on Dec. 25 since the weather would not have permitted" shepherds watching over their flocks in the fields at night.
Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4). Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.
Given the difficulties and the desire to bring pagans into Christianity, "the important fact then which I have asked you to get clearly into your head is that the fixing of the date as December 25th was a compromise with paganism" (William Walsh, The Story of Santa Klaus, 1970, p. 62).
If Jesus Christ weren't born on Dec. 25, does the Bible indicate when He was born? The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.
Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year (The Companion Bible, 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).
It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (verses 23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/holidays/dec25.html

[Clark2008]

16. Hey - I'll one up you. My son goes to a SOUTHERN BAPTIST church

and they told him that, while we celebrate Jesus' birthday on Dec. 25, He was more likely born in the Spring. The day is symbolic.

[rug]

13. And?

[Jcrowley]

14. The roots of modern customs

The roots of modern customs
Many of the other trappings of Christmas are merely carryovers from ancient celebrations.
Santa Claus comes from Saint Nicholas, the "saint whose festival was celebrated in December and the one who in other respects was most nearly in accord with the dim traditions of Saturn as the hero of the Saturnalia" (Walsh, p. 70).
"On the Roman New Year (January 1), houses were decorated with greenery and lights, and gifts were given to children and the poor. To these observances were added the German and Celtic Yule rites . . . Food and good fellowship, the Yule log and Yule cakes, greenery and fir trees, gifts and greetings all commemorated
different aspects of this festive season. Fires and lights, symbols of warmth and lasting life, have always been associated with the winter festival, both pagan and Christian" (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th edition, Micropaedia, Vol. II, p. 903, "Christmas").
"In midwinter, the idea of rebirth and fertility was tremendously important. In the snows of winter, the evergreen was a symbol of the life that would return in the spring, so evergreens were used for decoration . . . Light was important in dispelling the growing darkness of the solstice, so a Yule log was lighted with the remains of the previous year's log . . . As many customs lost their religious reasons for being, they passed into the realm of superstition, becoming good luck traditions and eventually merely customs without rationale. Thus the mistletoe was no longer worshiped but became eventually an excuse for rather nonreligious activities" (Gerard and Patricia Del Re, p. 18).
"Christmas gifts themselves remind us of the presents that were exchanged in Rome during the Saturnalia. In Rome, it might be added, the presents usually took the form of wax tapers and dolls, -- the latter being in their turn a survival of the human sacrifices once offered to Saturn. It is a queer thought that in our Christmas presents we are preserving under another form one of the most savage customs of our barbarian ancestors!" (Walsh, p. 67).
When we see these customs perpetuated today in Christmas observance, we can have no doubt of this holiday's origin. Christmas is a diverse collection of pagan forms of worship overlaid with a veneer of Christianity.

http://www.ucgstp.org/lit/booklets/holidays/chap2.html

[WinkyDink]

17. Co-opting local religions was not a new thang.