What the fuck is an "Islamist"?

[Telly Savalas]

I've flown down from Canuckistan for the holidays and I keep hearing this word on NPR and seeing it in the paper. If the folks at the National Review want to use their little right-wing code words, that's fine, but why are supposedly non-partisan mainstream news sources using it?

[Maat]

1. It is a vague term to set up a bogeyman for the hardrightwingers.

I also believe that it helps justify certain relatives' racism ... to those dimwitted relatives (we're not talking for the most part).

"My pastor says Conservative Christianity is good, and that Muslims are bad. Besides, they're brown people, mostly; and, I need a target for my irrational anger (and it can't be any of the Bushes; they are people of God)." Sorry, I guess I'm mocking how I believe their thinking goes.

[AlienGirl]

5. I disagree, I think it and its sister word "Christianist" are useful terms

In both cases, the word is intended to differentiate the hard-right-wing fundamentalists who use religion as an excuse for totalitarianism from the ordinary believers in the religion. An Islamist is to Islam as a Christianist like Pat Robertson is to Christianity. I find it an important distinction to make, as I have friends who are Muslim and Christian and don't want the proper terms for their religion sullied by the totalitarian fundies.

Tucker

[Maat]

11. Oh, you are technically correct .. and I didn't mean to offend.

Where I was coming from: I read the rightwing websites daily for a research project I'm doing. What I am trying to say is that the Hardrighties took a legitimate word and changed its meaning for their own nefarious purposes, and my kooky relatives bought right into the rightwing propaganda.

[beam me up scottie]

31. I think that's exactly right.

I normally don't like new labels, but those are both excellent additions.

[Toots]

42. The difference being this is the first time I ever heard Christianist

IMO it is a way to get the Crusades going once more. It is identifying people of being criminal by their religion. There is nothing beneficial by doing that..

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. NPR has been infiltrated by evil dwarves and ogres,

mainly because the board controling the Corpseration of Public Boredcasting has been turned into a cesspool of GOP throw-aways.

[stevedeshazer]

6. *ding*ding*ding*ding*ding*

:)

[Ravy]

3. An Islamist is

noun
1. a scholar who knowledgeable in Islamic studies
2. an orthodox Muslim

*shrug*


from www.dictionary.com

[Telly Savalas]

9. Neither of those definitions seem to match the usage I've heard on NPR

unless it's become conventional wisdom that religious scholars pose a national security threat.

[Kali]

14. oh if they are those Islamist religious scolars they ARE a threat.

See some Democracy Now! archives.

[AlienGirl]

15. Depends on the religious scholar: I'd say Gary North is a huge threat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_North

Here's another link about Christianists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Theology

[Telly Savalas]

18. Calling that guy a scholar is playing fast and loose with the word.

[AlienGirl]

27. As is calling totalitarian fundamentalist Muslims "scholars."

[JohnLocke]

4. Set of political ideologies that hold that Islam is not only a religion, but also a political system

http://lexicorient.com/e.o/islamism.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

[MannyGoldstein]

7. Thank You nt

[AlienGirl]

8. It's the equivalent of this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

[Telly Savalas]

10. Then shouldn't Dominionism be called Christianityism?

[AlienGirl]

13. It is called Christianism frequently (I use that term, also Christofascism)

[Telly Savalas]

16. Is it called Christianism outside the left-wing of the blogosphere?

On NPR?

[AlienGirl]

28. How is that relevant? Words mean what they mean, regardless whether they are popular on NPR,

[Telly Savalas]

12. It's a rather politically loaded neologism.

Especially when one considers the alternate definitions offered in post #3.

[UncleSepp]

20. Thanks. That makes the most sense. (n/t)

[LynnTheDem]

17. Anyone not white enough to a rightwingnut Republic.

[Cleita]

19. It's another one in BushCo's special Jabberwocky dictionary, along with

uniter, decider and other gems. If you don't know what they are talking about then they don't have to explain themselves.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Here is a pretty good set of definitions from a new poster...

Islam is the faith.

Muslim just means anyone who believes in the faith: a Muslim can be secular (ie believing in government & law broadly independent of religion), like a secular Christian or Jew.

Islamist denotes those Muslims who advocate government & law founded on Islam. Most Islamists aren't jihadists, but see Islamic institutions as desirable in their own society. Jihadism's just one strain of radical Islamism, not representative of Islamist thought generally.

"Islamic" properly denotes the wider culture of the societies shaped by Islam, and is inappropriate as a religious or political label. Christians may make Islamic art without being irreligious, for instance, because of Islamic elements in their local culture.

dave_p

[Clark2008]

37. Good set of definitions.

I HATE it when people call Muslims, "Islamists." Islam is a whole series of culture. You can have Islamic art or Islamic government, but the PEOPLE who practice the faith are Muslims. Period.

Thanks.

[Posteritatis]

22. Islamists are basically Islamic theonomists

I don't consider it a right-wing code word at all. Hell, the first place I encountered it (along with an explanation of the term) was in Gwynne Dyer columns; anyone who thinks he's a right-winger needs to lay off the crack.

It's IMHO a perfectly accurate way to describe the viewpoint of Osama or the Taliban; Muslims who are big on applying ultra-orthodox interpretations of Islam on their populaces, often by force, and who are often big on exporting said interpretations in the same manner.

It is not a synonym for "Islamic terrorist" or politically-motivated Muslims in general, though. I would consider the Taliban, maaaAaAAaaaaybe the Saudi government, al-Qaeda, and possibly the UIC to qualify as Islamist. Most of the terrorist organizations in Israel, or a large chunk of the insurgency in Iraq, or a lot of other such groups, I wouldn't; for a lot of them Islam is a means more than an end, while for actual Islamists it's the other way around.

[ButterflyBlood]

24. Correct, it's a valid term, not a right wing code d at all

It's even mentioned in one of my textbooks last semester.

I'd say that all Islamic terrorists would be considered Islamist though, just that secular Palestinean and Iraqi groups shouldn't be considered Islamic groups at all.

[Posteritatis]

25. Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying

I didn't consider them Islamist because I don't consider them Islamic terrorist groups, but rather terrorist groups who happen to be staffed by Muslims. The full-out, house-of-Islam-and-house-of-war theonomists, on the other hand, are fair game for the term.

[fujiyama]

30. I consider it a useful term

if for anything, just to differentiate between regular Muslims (followers of Islam) and the theocratic types who also use Islam for political ends.

Although, I suppose it'd be useful to have such a term to designate the Pat Robertson types in this country....though I guess the term "Dominionists" would serve as a similar designation.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

43. The term may be perfectly valid, but the usage is dubious.

My impression, although I'm not able to produce much evidence to back this up, is that it's used more widely than is technically correct, often in place of "Muslim", whether or not the individual in question is technically an Islamist; often I think more as a matter of ignorance than design.

[dave_p]

32. More about words

"It is not a synonym for 'Islamic terrorist' or politically-motivated Muslims in general"

I definitely agree, though I find the phrase "Islamic terrorist" most unsatisfactory: does it mean action by a Muslim? Or by an Islamist? Or by someone from an Islamic country? I think I know what you mean it to say, but it doesn't adequately specify it.

"Islamic" should properly refer to the wider culture shaped by Islam, though it's come also to denote Islam-based systems of law and government, which seems fair use. But to attach "Islamic" to political action confuses the very fundamental distinction between Islam and Islamism.

You're right in those you identify as Islamist, but I'd make the further subdivision between those (e.g. Hamas) who advocate an Islamist nationalism or Islam-based institutions at home, and those (AQ) who seek Islamism's international spread by violence - for me, "jihadist" better describes the latter.

[ButterflyBlood]

23. Wanting to establish Islam as the basis of government

Essentially, someone who supports an Islamic theocracy.

As a political science student, I can say that it's a completely valid term (as opposed to "Islamofascism") and is hardly an attack on all Muslims at all, actually a positive in that respect as it provides differientation between moderate Muslims and the fundie nuts.

[Strelnikov_]

26. A Member Of The Indigenous Tribes Occupying Our Oil And Natural Gas Fields

in the Middle East.

[AlienGirl]

29. Not so. "Islamist" refers to a specific fundamentalist political philosophy.

[rman]

36. To which most people who believe in the Islam religion don't adhere to.

Yet the term "Islamist" suggests that this specific fundamentalist political philosophy does not only include anti-secularism but also that it is widespread among Islam. Which is quite dangerous because it is not true, but it plays right into the hands of Bush and his neocon gang. This is what Orwell means by newspeak; manipulation of language to influence public world view (the Nazi's called it "Weld Anshau Krieg": "World View War"/Psychological warfare). And the Deciderist in Chief and his gang do it so well.

[Strelnikov_]

46. I Was Providing The Faux News 'Fear Of The Other Fest' Definition

since the OP was referring to domestic 'news' coverage.

[Zero Division]

33. It's a term widely used in academia, not a polemical term like...

"Islamofascist". Many academics refrain from using the term "Islamic fundamentalist" because the term "fundamentalist" refers to a kind of orthodox religious belief that is descriptive not only of many militant Islamists but also of many, if not most, non-violent Muslims.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. What one of my professors said about the term...

Basically what you said, but he added that the term is misused outside academia and especially by the US media...

[Zero Division]

45. I'm not surprised by its misuse.

The common meaning of "Islamist" will probably change--if it hasn't already--leading to even more unnecessary arguments between those who are more familiar with its academic usage and those who are not. It reminds me of an huge flame war that once erupted on DU because of such a difference over the term "logical".

[rman]

38. Non-violent Muslims hate it when they get blow up by a bunch of Islamic Fundamentalist

as much as they hate being blow up by a bunch of Christian fundamentalist appeasers.
To use the term "fundamentalist" as equivalent to "Islamic fundamentalist" is disingenuous because it implies that there is no religious fundamentalism outside of Islam. And to say that "many, if not most non-violent Muslims" adhere to violent Islamic fundamentalism doesn't even begin to make sense. But it plays right into the hands of the Fascists in the WH.

[Zero Division]

41. I'm not talking about the common usage of the word "fundamentalist",..

which is more often than not used to mean something like "crazed fanatic". For example, many of those who study theology, as my professor for my Islam and Democracy class did, would use the term "fundamentalist" to describe beliefs such as the literal truth of important religious texts or what are widely regarded as orthodox religious beliefs. I hope this makes more sense now.

[rman]

34. kinda like a Christianist,

except that it's a different religion?

Seriously though,

It's newspeak invented by the dictatorist Orwellianists and in the WH, one of whom is suffering from deciderism.

[ButterflyBlood]

39. No, hardly

As pointed above, it's a valid term used in academia, not a right wing creation.

[rman]

44. But outside of academia the term has a different meaning,

which is a RW creation. How the term is used in academia does very little to affect public opinion, how it's used by the media does affect public opinion.

[MH1]

40. Someone who doesn't believe in the separation of church and state

whose chosen religion, the laws of which they would impose on all members of their society regardless of those members' own religion or lack thereof, is...wait for it...ISLAM.

Whatever you think of Islam as a religion, whatever you think of its laws, when people of Islamic faith want to impose their laws on everyone else, they are anti-democracy.

I don't think there is anything wrong with opposing Islamist governments with as much vigor as we should be opposing fascist governments. They are just as evil. (Hence the term "islamo-fascist", which is politically incorrect at DU, but understandable considering BOTH.ARE.JUST.EVIL. But please don't apply that to Islamic folks who just want to live their lives their way without telling me how to live mine - I don't think those folks are part of the definition of "Islamist", and I have no problem with them whatsoever.)

[Taxloss]

47. Excellent answer.

:yourock:

[Bridget Burke]

48. The word was invested by (non-Muslim) Westerners.

Here's a Wikipedia article; check out the "discussion" section, since there's plenty of controversy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

Mostly, in today's media, it's a Right Wing Code Word.