Bataan ESG, 26th MEU to deploy this week (Navy Times)

[doublethink]

January 02, 2007

Bataan ESG, 26th MEU to deploy this week

By William H. McMichael
Staff writer

exerpts:

-The Bataan group will deploy over two days, officials said. On Thursday, the amphibious assault ship Bataan, amphibious transport dock Shreveport and attack submarine Scranton will sail from Norfolk Naval Station, Va., while the dock landing ship Oak Hill deploys from nearby Little Creek Naval Amphibious Base.

On Friday, the frigate Underwood will get underway at Mayport, Fla., while the destroyer Nitze and cruiser Vella Gulf leave Norfolk, 2nd Fleet said. -snip-

Pentagon officials have said the Bremerton, Wash.-based John C. Stennis Carrier Strike Group could deploy several weeks early — as soon as this week — to create a temporary two-carrier presence in the Persian Gulf as a show of force for neighboring Iran, which the U.S. believes is trying to become a nuclear-weapon power. -snip-

On Dec. 23, the United Nations voted unanimously to impose sanctions on Iran’s trade for materials and technology aimed at enrichment of uranium, which could be used for either nuclear reactors or bombs. The U.S. also says Iran continues to provide support for rebels fighting in Iraq. -snip-

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2455929.php

note: pretty short article, just keeping an eye out, heads up, for any buildup of forces in the Gulf region along with any unusual ground forces being pre-stationed in Kuwait etc... etc... "The Bataan Expeditionary Strike Group" (ESG)... sounds kinda like the beginning of an offensive buildup to me, but then what do I know?

[FogerRox]

1. Could be as few as 2000 Marines

IIRC an entire MEU is about 6000 marines. Though an MEU w/helo carrier also has helos for mine hunting teams, SOP for operating in the Persian Gulf. Worth keeping an eye on. Vigilance.

[doublethink]

3. Thanks for the insight FogerRox ....

sounds like your more informed than I on the details of these forces, yea vigilance.

[FogerRox]

13. I've been trying to stay with this story for a while

Check out my journals link. And then my blog about Saudi ICBMs. http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/
ALong with the claim (false) by some one claiming to write for the NATION, that the Stennis was steaming to the Persian Gulf weeks ago:
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/12/23/11152/873/17#c17

The Kos diaryist backed off the assertion that the Stennis was teaming after I showed the Stennis was docked in Bremerton WA. Theres a lot of BS floating about on massive strike groups assembling in the Persian Gulf. Load of crap it is.

Vigilance.

[doublethink]

19. Good info on your journal ..... checked it out thanks ...

You have info there on the "Iranian Oil Bourse" .... Dollars/Euros ... for oil, what do you think the timing of Iran trading dollars for euros started Dec 8th of 2006 might point out to what's coming now, update? http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/69374/Tehran_Times_Iran_Has_Started_Substituting_Euros_for_Dollars_in_Oil_Sales

Oh and yea the Stennis is still in port. But if you read through the other posts I'm trying to pick your brain on in this thread ........................ if and when the Stennis leaves to the Gulf ......... well vigilance. Peace.

[FogerRox]

22. Seems like everyone is slowly going Euro.

They dont want to shock the International banking systems, but Iran, Venezuela, Russia, etc are moving away from Dollars. They will do so slowly.

[FogerRox]

21. Wrong ....an MEU is not 6000 marines, my apologies.

[itsmesgd]

2. so, are we still thinking about a late-feb attack on Iran?

it keeps looking more likely to me at least.

[Bruce McAuley]

5. I'm afraid I have to agree.

One way or another, George will create a "Gulf of Tonkin" incident to start the war with Iran.
And it's all because they are beginning to want Euros for their oil.

Bruce

[doublethink]

6. I believe the UN sanctions on Iran gave them 60 days .....

from Dec 23rd to cease enriching uranium, which Iran has refused to do (The NPT says they have a right to enrich uranium for it's nuclear energy program) .... anyway time will tell. Bush didn't heed the UN much when he went into Iraq in March 2003, so yea things could get ugly (uglier for us too) for Iran about that same time frame this year.

[onenote]

29. remember when the attack was a given for October?

What makes this any different?

[Rex]

4. Two carriers? They have 4 strike groups and this will be the 5th.

Number 6 would be half of our naval fleet. That is a lot of military firepower.

[doublethink]

8. Remember all the talk of the 'Permanent Military Bases' we, the U.S. ....

were supposed to be building in Iraq? Hard to find any info out there on how those came out. And I always wondered if they were going to build 'airstrips' on those bases? And did we build any in Afghanistan too? And what ever happened to all that $ that went missing under Rumsfields watch over there? Was it used to build these bases? Lots of things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm ....... anyway some argue that we need to start worrying when we see 4 carriers in or around the Gulf. But what if the U.S. just flew out of Iraq and Afghanistan for these bombing missions at some point? Wasn't that PNAC's plan at one point? Lots to speculate on. But of course all speculation on my part. I duh know ....

[Rex]

10. Same here

all we can do is speculate based on what is happening right now. Someone here told me it would take a lot more actual carriers that could launch planes in endless sorties. I kinda wondered what you were thinking...yeah but what about all the bases we are supposedly building/not building over there.

Yeah, Rummy lost 2 trillion dollars for the pentagon to spend on who knows what. I would bring up violations in international law, but we all know Bush/Cheney operate outside known and well established laws.

[doublethink]

11. Vaccinations ... End of Year Weird Stuff … Iraq 2002/Iran 2006

More speculation on my part: Military Vaccinations:

I was looking into the similarities of the ‘war drums’ getting louder for pre-invasion Iraq 2002 : and Iran 2006 when I came upon a few other things that make you go hmmmmmm ... here's a part of that for the heck of it …… (my thoughts and additions for clarification are in parentheses)



Posted 11/28/2002 5:55 PM

Little resistance to smallpox shots expected ] By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY WASHINGTON

— When the Pentagon begins inoculating troops with smallpox vaccine in the next few weeks, it is unlikely to encounter the resistance that erupted when the services administered anthrax vaccinations, military analysts say.
Facing an uncertain threat from the deadly smallpox virus, sources in the White House say Bush soon will announce plans to vaccinate 500,000 military personnel and 510,000 civilian medical workers.
Troops considered at highest risk are those who could be assigned to the Middle East in the event of war with Iraq, which is suspected of maintaining stocks of the smallpox virus. The initial vaccination plan also would cover troops in key homeland security roles. -snip-

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2002-11-28-smallpox-usat_x.htm



Anthrax vaccinations expected to resume in late January
Lawyer for six DOD employees vows to try to stop program

By Jeff Schogol, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Sunday-Monday, December 31, 2006-January 1, 2007

ARLINGTON, Va. — Mandatory anthrax vaccinations for some troops are expected to resume in late January, said Defense Department spokesman Maj. Stewart Upton on Friday.
Meanwhile, an attorney representing six Defense Department employees who refuse to take the vaccine has vowed that he will try to stop the mandatory vaccination program.
In October, the Defense Department announced it was making anthrax vaccinations mandatory for U.S. troops on the Korean peninsula and in the U.S. Central Command area of operations. (for simple clarity that would be the Middle East)
At one time, shots were mandatory for all troops. But in 2004, a federal judge halted the inoculations after finding the Food and Drug Administration had made mistakes in determining the drug was safe. -snip-

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=42499


(the Anthrax vaccine is not proven safe, so why is the DOD resurrecting this as a mandatory inoculation for our troops in the Middle East? Why now? Other research on the subject states that between 200,000 and 210,000 of our troops will be vaccinated. Subtracting the 30,000 troops in North Korea that would leave somewhere between 170,000 and 180,000 Anthrax vaccine inoculations for our troops in the Middle East CENTCOM. Oh and we are the ONLY nation in the world to make Anthrax innoculations for their troops Mandatory)

hmmmmmmmmm ....

[doublethink]

16. Hey Rex ....... see my post #14 .....

I'd like to get your insight on that too ...... all those sorties there ..... just a clip "Air Force C-130 Hercules and C-17 Globemaster IIIs provided intra-theater heavy airlift support, helping sustain operations throughout Afghanistan, Iraq and the Horn of Africa. They flew 140 airlift sorties, delivered 220 tons of cargo and transported 2,080 passengers. This included about 7,800 pounds of troop re-supply air-dropped in eastern Afghanistan.

Coalition C-130 crews from Australia, Canada, Japan and South Korea flew in support of OIF or OEF. -snip-

My question: where the f .... are all these sorties originating from .... ? See the question on post #14. Thanks

[FogerRox]

12. Rex, maybe you could make something clear

Please explain what you think a "strike group" is....

....are strike groups carrier groups.

And if you think strike groups are carrier groups, you should know that 9 of 12 carrier groups are docked for the holidays, here in the USA.

And if you dont have any documentation, well, I'll let that stand by itself.

[doublethink]

14. Hey Foger Rox ......

what's your insight on this? Trying to pick your brain ... get your thoughts.... read through all the 'sorties' the Iraqi ones included in this article below and tell me where these flights are originating from in your opinion .... then read my post #8 above, and tell me if it's possible .... if only 2 carrier groups would be needed to carry out a bombing campaign on Iran? (I mean couldn't they fly out sorties from wherever all these other ones are coming from now?) ....

CENTAF releases airpower summary for Jan. 2 2007
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2007/01/mil-070102-afpn01.htm

[FogerRox]

18. Ah right doublethink . .>clap<

GS is pretty good. The article you link to sounds like SOP. Mid East CentCom is in Quatar IIRC, thats my guess as to where the flights you cite come from. We built a huge air base there, so we could move our assets out of Saudi Arabia.

One thing I noted from your link:

"On Dec. 31, U.S., RAF and French air force tankers flew 33 sorties and off-loaded almost 2.2 million pounds of fuel. "

I'll bet that is being stockpiled in Quatar, for "future" use.

AS I posted upthread, the best bunker buster we have IMHO is the Tomahawk penatrator variant. SO if it was me, I would use Tom Toms. LA class attack subs have 12 vert launchers, + 4 torpedeo tubes. so one sub can launch a staggered salvo of 16. Guided missle cruisers only have 2 launchers. Most of the ships in a carrier group are defensive, carrying sparrow & harpoon missiles.

There are maybe 10 to 20 nuke sites of hi priority, the Pentagon claims 450 sites on a list.

And I would not sail into the Persian Gulf to start a bombing campaign with cruise missiles, I would stand off, in the Gulf of Oman, which is the eastern end of the Arabian Sea. That leaves all of Iran within range of my Tom Toms. 10 LA class subs could launch a STAGGERED salvo of 160 cruise missiles. That would make a good opening salvo, good enough to take out whatever ails you.

Iran has about 300 planes, at best F-14s (40), SU-27s(10) and Mig 29s(10). Irans best SAM is the SAM 6, which is older and I think the have no more than 60 mobile ASM 6 launchers. SO the SAMs are best used as point defense around critical sites.

Probably not a player in this scenario, SA has mid range ICBMs

http://rdanafox.blogspot.com/

[doublethink]

23. Okay now I'm scared ......

:scared: ... sooooooo would the U.S. even attempt your scenario, with only 2 aircraft carrier groups in (or as you state a bit away) from the Persian Gulf? Could they? Never-mind, I don't wanna know. I'll keep an eye on your journal. Thank's for the insight. Peace. Vigalance.

ps: okay answer if you want to.

[FogerRox]

25. As I posted before

Heres the short version. I would use primarily LA class subs to launch Tomahawks (range IIRC 2500 miles). Not Carrier based planes to drop bunker busters. So I discount the importance of the carriers.

A typical FLeet carrier carries about 90 planes, most, 1/2? are defensive, AWACS, electronic warfare, Search & rescue etc. SO thats about 35-40 ? attack aircraft. Iran has MAX 60 front line aircraft... TOPS. Including the 40 yr old F-4, call it 300.

So you need to take out their planes in the sky, go after command & Control, radar ETC. Then the SAM sites, which may be in tunnels (60 SAM-6 launchers). Once you have command of the AIR, then you can think about actually dropping something on a nuke site.

So I get to this:

4+ carriers
6+ LA class subs

Then its time to a crap

[Rex]

15. There are only 12 battle strike groups in the US Navy.

Don't know what you're smoking if you think they are all docked here in the US.

[FogerRox]

17. yup 9 out of 12, read it and weep pal.

Failure to document your hysterical claims might allow some to view you as .....hysterical.

Kitty Hawk is wes pac

Rossevelt is Wes Alant

Ike is Persian gulf

Rest of them are in port or dry dock.

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/gonavy/atsugi/gonavy604.html

[Rex]

26. Well at least i knew there were 12.

Did it take you long to google that? :eyes:

Edit - Of course you are wrong about their deployments.

[FogerRox]

30. google it, no. I have that stuff on hand.

I wouldnt have been so adament to you about the issue if I had not already known I had the documentation.

[Target_For_Exterm]

7. They're up to something.

I don't know if it's for Iraq or Iran, but they're definately up to something.

[doublethink]

9. Yea another thread just said NBC reported Bush just decided to ....

'surge' ESCALATE ... 20,000 more troops over to Iraq. And I agree, they are up to 'even more' than they lead us to believe ......

[FogerRox]

20. MEUFrom Wiki:

A Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) is the smallest Marine Air-Ground Task Force in the United States Marine Corps.
The Marine Expeditionary Unit is normally built around a Marine infantry battalion, a composite helicopter squadron, a MEU Service Support Group, and a Command Element. Troop strength is about 2,200, commanded by a colonel. Occasionally a MEU is built around a regiment and is called a Marine Expedtionary Brigade (MEB) and is commanded by a Brigadier General.
The MEU is routinely deployed with fleets in the Mediterranean, the Western Pacific, and periodically, the Atlantic and Indian Oceans for roughly 6 months; unless in a time of crisis and war. Up to four naval amphibious ships are needed to carry the necessary troops and equipment.
note the use of the term SMALLEST..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Expeditionary_Unit

This suggests that support & rear echelon positions leaves about about 1000 front line troops.

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9356754




This is the the GBU-28 or the BLU-113, is 19 feet (5.8 meters). It weighs about 4,400 pounds.




Air-to-air view of GBU-28 hard target bomb on an F-15E Eagle. This is about as good as it gets (GBU-28). Unless you use a Tomahawk penatrator.

[FogerRox]

24. Heres your 15 primary targets

From

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/nuke-fac.htm

[doublethink]

27. Could they fly some of these sorties from this airbase linked?

Bagram opens $68 million runway

12/21/2006 - BAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan (AFPN) -- Despite inclement weather and the possibility of snowfall, a new $68 million runway was opened and celebrated by Air Force and Army service members, civilian contractors and Afghan officials Dec. 20 at Bagram Air Base, Afghanistan. -snip-

Using a workforce of Afghan nationals upward of 400 working each and every day, Contrack International members worked closely with their military partners to build a runway and aircraft ramp capable of handling most aircraft in the military inventory. The new runway is 2,000 feet longer than the older and is 11 inches thicker, which gives it the ability to handle larger aircraft if necessary, such as the C-5 Galaxy or the Boeing 747. -snip-

"This runway is designed to accept the majority of aircraft in the military inventory and mainly in place to accept 'medium load' aircraft; however, it can accept the larger aircraft, but it will wear out faster if heavy airplanes use it on a regular basis," said Lt. Col. Eric Mulkey, U.S. Central Command Air Forces construction management officer. -snip-


http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123035900

questions: "medium load aircraft" .... I presume would be anything you could fly off the deck of a carrier? I'm still stuck in the scenario of using military airstrips in Afghanistan, Iraq instead of such a heavy reliance on the Carriers if blivit (bush) is going to bomb Iran?

on edit: here's a map of where the airbase is located, my first reaction is maybe it's to far away from the Iranian border to use ...... but taking your scenario ..... "it would be further out of range" for any retaliation Iran would put up (like standing an Aircraft Carrier away in the Arabian sea) I guess anything is possible. Peace.

[FogerRox]

28. AH Ididnt see your map at 1st

BAGRAM AIR BASE, Afghanistan, I checked google earth, its just north of Kabul


NE Afghanistan. Proly not a player. Quatar is just west of the Straights of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf, perfect for land based aircraft to operate in the Guld region.

Anyway from the base its about 500-600 miles west to the Iranian border, Iran is about 1200 miles across (IIRC) & Frankly the US has its hands full in Afghanistan, with very limited assets there, it maybe able to play a minor supportive role, but I doubt it.