George Bush, give me back my son.

[JohnyCanuck]

You’d have to know my son. This child turned man. My son used to be a sensitive guy. I remember when he wanted a kitten because dogs scared him. We went to a farm and he picked the scrawniest, ugliest smallest kitten there. My son slept with that cat till the day he left for boot camp. Is this the same person that used to hold my hand as a teenager or throw his arm around me when we were out in public? Is this the same person that we always made sure we said goodnight to each other and expressed our love? When we were apart talked on the phone as frequently as possible and always ended each phone call with I love you? Is this the son who held me in his arms and we cried together at the airport when he was leaving for Iraq? Where is my son? GEORGE BUSH, GIVE ME BACK MY SON!

My son wouldn’t look me in the eyes when he first returned from Iraq. He always seemed nervous and jumpy. Riding in the car with him as he weaved from lane to lane avoiding any road debris. Tollbooths made him crazy. He didn’t sleep at night and seemed on edge. Alcohol was becoming his way to induce sleep.

Fast forward to August 2005. I hadn’t heard from my son in awhile. He has been slowly pushing away everyone that loves and cares for him. We live in different states and it’s hard to track him. In August I found him. He looked like a skeleton. He looked so skinny. The soldier’s body long gone. His eyes held sadness. He asked for 20 bucks for food he had none in his refrigerator. He only visited with me a half hour even though I had driven 300 miles to see him. He took off. I went home. The phone calls became less and less. Days turned to months. I didn’t hear from him at thanksgiving, not a word at Christmas, New years passed with out a sound.

Then came the dream. Mothers are bonded to their children. We know their hurts, their pains, we feel them even when their thousands of miles away. On January 9th the dream came. In the dream there was an Iraqi, my son and me. We were attached through ropes. Suddenly my son was hoisted in the air and his body slammed against a beam and he couldn’t breathe he was choking…I will never forget the look in his eyes. I woke up unnerved and unable to return to sleep. The next morning I called my son’s ex-girlfriend. He had recently x’ed her out of his life they had been dating since sophomore year in high school. She stated my son had been arrested over the weekend for fighting. My son has only had one speeding ticket in his entire life..Certainly not violent. Then 2 hours later my mother called. When my son returned from Iraq he bought a car with his combat pay, my mother cosigned. My mom stated that the bank had contacted her about a week ago and he was behind in payments. The car was up for repossession. I was becoming increasingly worried. When I got into work the next day I had an emergency phone call from my sons ex girlfriend. She told me through her tears that my son had driven his car over an embankment. She saw the car she couldn’t believe he survived. She had talked to some of his friends that told her he was crying that night and talking about the war. Whenever my son gets a few beers in him his friends tell me he talks about the war. they describe it as “Crazy talk”. He wants the blood of the Iraqis he killed off his hands. He then left and drove his car at high speed over an embankment.

http://www.teambio.org/2006/02/state-of-our-family-address

[Maddy McCall]

1. Classic PTSD. Supposedly, in our soldiers' debriefing, they are...

being seen by psychologists who watch for signs of PTSD. Supposedly.



:cry:

[TahitiNut]

4. Yep. It's all-too-familiar. (I wish someone had been as alert to mine.)

Here's a photo of me when I was in the very beginnings of recovering from PTSD through finding ways of dealing with it myself. This was taken on a 3-week motorcycle trip I took in the summer of 1970, about 9 months after I came 'home' from Nam. Anyone who knows me can see the gaunt, stressed, haunted look lying just below the surface. When I look at it myself, I get a little knot in my stomach.

[w8liftinglady]

5. how are you now(if you don't mind me asking)?

I worry about my kid and his buddies.I hope there is some kind of network for them out there.

[TahitiNut]

8. Well, it never really goes away ... but I'm probably 'better' for it.

My PTSD was quite mild - mostly exacerbated by the 'coming home' traumas. I was very lucky to have been somewhat older (25), more educated, and faced nowhere nearly as traumatic combat events as some. I only had one "shoot back" combat experience during Tet ... all the rest were "duck and cover" (hide behind sandbags or in sandbag bunkers) rocket/mortar/grenade attacks. I received some initial counseling (and meds in the short term) and have since used a variety of "spiritually centering" approaches, first merely to deal with it and subsequently to grow personally.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger? I'm guessing Nietzsche was right. :shrug:

The support resources are far, far better these days, obtainable through the VA, veteran's groups, and a more-aware health care system.

[malmapus]

16. Support systems are better given your unit doesn't screw ya

I had tried to seek counseling when I was having problems, my buddies knew that I had to take sleeping pills and vodka just to knock myself out. But after my second and last "shoot back" in Haiti, I lost it. Came home and sought counseling just to have my new det CO and Team Sgt assuse me of doing it in order to not go back to Haiti during my battelions second rotation. So I got myself an article 15, with nice demotions and half pay for two months along with that extra duty, yeah they really helped me out.

But yeah, been living with this for just under 13 years now and I don't think I'm as bad as I was then. Lol well I know for a fact I'm not, since I don't have to knock myself out to sleep anymore. I do still have anger problems (more passive now) that I try to keep under control. Memories never go away though, but after living with them this long, I have occasional moments where I let them get the best of me. Not estranged from my family anymore, went like god 3 or 4 years being pissed off at the world or something, totally cut myself off from everyone including my wife back then, who supported me though the shit they put me through.

[TahitiNut]

19. I hear ya. It's appalling how many exploit the misery of others.

The "health care system" is almost completely corrupted to profiteer from human illness and injury. Much of the 'gun ho' (not 'gung ho') military feeds on self-serving scapegoating - elevating themselves by blaming the victim. (Back in my day, they were quick to dump the 'problem' back on the street.) I did the morning coffee and nightime booze for years before I kicked the habit and began doing meditation and other 'emotional balance' exercises. PTSD-free for about 20 years, I've been mostly depression-free for about 10 years, now, too. (Knock on wood.) With the help of some "fingers pointing" not in blame but in support, I found/rediscovered some inner resources that I'd allowed to go unused. People who truly understand 'service' in support of others have been a godsend. (Thank Inez!)

[malmapus]

25. Yeah, really blew me away too

I had earned a pretty nice reputation in my unit, my own Team Sgt. was like a father to me (I was youngest on my team, lol freakin lucked out on assignments which was another reason I strove to be the best I could be). But in the end, he was the one trying to push for me to be just thrown out on the street dishonorably.

I can still remember the feeling of isolation I had to endure before being discharged (honorably by the skin of my teeth from my prior years of service, although others wanted it to be different). Being ostrasized by my unit, that was the worst feeling, living a life where your team is everything and then being alone with all these problems. A few real buddies stuck by me in private, but for the most part I was left in the wind doing shit details in the last couple months of my time in.

The best counseling I have found has been my wife's father. He was a Nam vet, and has walked the walk. I had NEVER talked about my time in service to anyone (well except when it would come out in fits of anger) since I got out, pretty much balled it up and stuck it inside me and tried to sort through it myself (yeah yeah I know, wrong thing to do). But me and him would just get to talking and he opened up on some of his demons and I did the same, been trying to live by his words of wisdom to "hold my mud".

[w8liftinglady]

29. maybe,some day,you can be that life preserver to someone else...

you sound like you have a lot of insight,and not much bullshit.Maybe,when you feel ready,you might think along those lines-it could help you heal,too.

[TahitiNut]

33. Side-by-side ...

... not from above or with a wrinkled nose - he sounds like he's been there and is "paying it forward." It's one of the best things we can do.

I remember an episode of West Wing where Leo McGarry tells Josh a story ...

"This guy's walking down the street when he falls in a hole. The walls are so steep he can't get out.
"A doctor passes by and the guy shouts up, 'Hey you. Can you help me out?' The doctor writes a prescription, throws it down in the hole and moves on.
"Then a priest comes along and the guy shouts up, 'Father, I'm down in this hole can you help me out?' The priest writes out a prayer, throws it down in the hole and moves on
"Then a friend walks by, 'Hey, Joe, it's me can you help me out?' And the friend jumps in the hole. Our guy says, 'Are you stupid? Now we're both down here.' The friend says, 'Yeah, but I've been down here before and I know the way out.'"

Well, we can't pretend we know the way out of the other guy's hole, but if we found the way out of our own hole, maybe with a companion, maybe we can just jump in and walk alongside someone else as they find their way. After all, the other guy is worth it!

Make sense? :patriot: :pals:

[mdmc]

26. could you post a thread on spiritual centering please?

or just respond here. thanks in advance, mdmc

[TahitiNut]

27. How to Meditate

... is the 2nd volume of a 4-volume dictionary. :evilgrin:

We had a short thread on beginning meditation recently. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2418515

I'm very reticent about proselytizing or suggesting that what works well for me would work for others. Just as I'm devotedly non-partisan in political matters, I'm devotedly non-sectarian in spiritual matters. I'm adamantly anti-dogmatic with strong opinions. I firmly believe, based on my own experience, that we each have everything we need already within ourselves. I don't believe the Universe creates 'incomplete' human beings. (Junior and Dickless sure make it tough to adhere to that belief.) I found that I could access those inner resources with "a little help from some friends." That worked for me.

In concert with that, about 13 years ago, I attended a 4-day "Personal Effectiveness Seminar" at Innovative Learning Group in Eugene, Oregon. I then went on to attend CrossOver, LifeWorks, and Namaste - the follow-up seminars. For me, these seminars were immensely useful. (The best things I've even done for myself. It was so clear to my close friends that I benefited that five of them, on their own, attended them in the next 6-12 months.) I used them to take my own path of discovery. All such seminars are not equal to others. I'm about the furthest thing from being a self-help-groupie that you can imagine. There are many I'd walk out of in 30 seconds (I have no patience with cultish bullshit) - and there was one I did exactly that, but not from this particular organization, which I respect. I'm also not someone to "handle life with tongs." I believe, that to get something out of an experience, I have to put a lot into it. I like total immersion experiences, like scuba diving. I've never been a toe-dipper. I "flew close to the sun" in these seminars and gained thereby. Everyone is unique and their mileage varies.

[mdmc]

35. thanks for the follow up

I'm going to check out your link right now. Peace, mdmc.

[leftchick]

6. oh TN...

:hug:

[TahitiNut]

9. Thanks, luv ... I'm not inviting a 'pity party' but merely wanting ...

... reach out to folks whose loved ones are facing this or are going to. I want to try to dispel the 'mystery' of it. It's NOT something to be treated with panic or "Oh My God". The guys coming back MUST find unconditional love and acceptance from their true friends and family - not "let me fix you" or "you're broken" attitudes. Supporting them must not involve codependent behavior. There's absolutely NOTHING that turned me off more (and ENRAGED me) than than people dealing with me to pander to their own self-images and agendae. Being in 'service' to another human being means surrendering the pursuit of one's own insecurities and egoism - "leaving them at the door." One of the reasons guys sought out other veterans with equivalent experience is because they understand that unconditional support ("taking your six") involves that kind of trust. For me, it was a young woman whose own experiences equipped her to see my needs and strengths. Inez. Her childhood background, as I discovered over time, was a horror. She survived and it made her stronger. She accepted me completely as a whole person and became, not a haven or escape, but a completely trusted companion as I recovered. That kind of unconditional love is sadly rare.

[democrank]

14. TN....

Here`s a sincere hug just for you.

[TahitiNut]

31. .

:hug:

[YOY]

15. I have newfound respect for you TahitiNut

In addition to the prior respect. Very glad you are doing better.

[TahitiNut]

28. Thank you, sir.

:blush:

For sure, I can probably just as likely piss you off tomorrow. :evilgrin:

[Maddy McCall]

34. I work with a Nam Vet who suffers from PTSD.

His name is John, and he's an undergraduate in our department. Our military historian befriended him about six or seven years ago, and our department offered him a scholarship and grant to finish his career.

What saddens me is that he's PRO-IRAQ-WAR. I have yet to figure out why, as he offers no explanation.

That aside, he's a nice-though-distant guy who will speak in any class when invited. After he speaks to my class, men and women leave the room in tears.

He tells stories that send chills down your spine.

Tahiti, if you would like to connect with another person who went through something similar to what you went through, fire me off a PM, and I'll send your email to John.

And many :hug: and :loveya: for the difficult life you are living. I have PTSD, too, but on a far less grand scale, because of spousal abuse.

:loveya: :pals:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. HOW MANY MORE GEORGE!!??

HOW MANY FUCKING MORE!!!???

:cry:

[w8liftinglady]

3. 5 soldiers in my son's unit have been discharged with PTSD

after their third deployment.These boys are mechanics-not infantry.They are making all the soldiers do "things".On my son's first deployment,he told me about doing guard duty(he did NO mechanic work his first deployment)..and told me-"don't worry,mom-I aim low with the women and children"when i expressed concern about who might be coming up to them.These boys have been trained to tell their parents"it's all good".I had to get my son drunk(I know-not mother of the year)..to get what little I could out of him.He is very distant,too...although he tells me he doesn't have PTSD "any more".right.

[stellanoir]

7. There is very little talk or awareness of the fact

that both Timothy McVeigh and John Allen Mohammed (the DC sniper) were both Desert Storm vets.

That conflict scarely went on for 3 months and didn't involve an invasion either.

Now we have 10's of thousands of Vets with PTSD.

A friend lost her son over there in November and when she told me how he had digressed after two tours and how both physically and mentally he was an absolute mess. He had been wounded on his first tour and was gimping around Iraq on his second tour when he should have been discharged.

She had been prepared to care for him for the rest of her life, I shocked myself by saying to her, "he's better off dead," not because he didn't need her constant care but due to the severity of his wounds both physical and mentally, the likelihood of a recovery or decent attention from the VA was so bloody remote.

She shocked herself by agreeing with me.

K & R

[Rainbowreflect]

10. War steals our young men & women.

It steals too many of their lives.
If it does not steal their lives, it steals their healthy young bodies. If it does not steal their bodies, it steals their souls.
:cry:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

11. And it always has

....where have all the flowers gone....long time passing...

[gratuitous]

13. That it does

And for every feel-good story about how the military turned an irresponsible hoodlum into a model citizen, there are a thousand (and probably more) graves of young men who will never turn 25, or see their children grow into maturity, or a zillion other things.

The only thing I would add to Julia Ward Howe's words at the time of the Civil War would be "and men":

Arise, then, women of this day! Arise all women who have hearts,
whether our baptism be that of water or of fears!

Say firmly: "We will not have great questions decided by
irrelevant agencies. Our husbands shall not come to us, reeking
with carnage, for caresses and applause. Our sons shall not be
taken from us to unlearn all that we have been able to teach
them of charity, mercy and patience.

We women of one country will be too tender of those of another
country to allow our sons to be trained to injure theirs. From
the bosom of the devastated earth a voice goes up with our own.
It says "Disarm, Disarm! The sword of murder is not the balance
of justice."

[democrank]

12. This is enough to make me weep.

How the hell many more must suffer?

[Hissyspit]

17. Hmm, I posted this two days ago and it dropped like a boulder.

I even self-kicked it. Glad to see it on Greatest page finally. It has been a rough and emotional week, so maybe that's why something as moving as Ms. Stillwell's truthout article got overlooked.

This is what Cindy Sheehan protests.

[w8liftinglady]

30. don't take offense-we were worked up 2 days ago...

now things are back to normal :hug:

[TahitiNut]

18. It's not surprising to me he avoided his mother.

Now, before the Defenders of Motherhood gather to burn me at the stake, please allow me to just TRY to describe the son's emotional state and what happens. OK?

While it's certainly not unusual or condemanble for a mother to feel pain over the emotional trauma and difficulties her son has had, it is not a time for him to be concerned for her pain. (No son who has been in 'service' to his nation and is sensitive enough to be traumatized can be immune to his own mother's suffering.) At this time, however, he's not able to deal effectively with his own, let alone hers. Absolutely ANYONE who wants to serve and support those who've had an emotional trauma cannot put their own suffering on the line. One cannot be in service to another human being when serving themselves - or even adding their own suffering to the "to do list."

I think it's one of the worst mistakes a parent can make under such circumstances - and one made all too often. The last thing a PTSD sufferer can hear and deal with is "oh I feel so bad for you." It's not "for" him. That merely compounds the problem and puts more on his plate.

I've had these dream-state flash images of "coming home" where people (friends and family) are off to the side, being comforted and supported by their support network, all because they "feel bad for me." It was like being a Typhoid Mary - responsible for bringing back some plague of pain and finding myself 'quarantined' - cut off from any support for what I was dealing with. When the sense of 'quarantine' was added to the sense of betrayal, it was more than I could deal with. (Thank G-d for Inez.)

So, to the friends and family: do not expect to be able to do any good if you carry the cross of your own emotional pain. You cannot be in 'service' to this person if you're attracting attention to your own emotional pain.

[w8liftinglady]

20. you make a good point-I see the same thing in my patients..

who "hang on" to spare their loved ones pain.
I think the only therapists these soldiers should see are ones who have "walked the walk"
Doonesbury has been fantastic in covering this aspect.

[TahitiNut]

22. Some guys just don't dare bleed on mom's rug.

They sure don't need grief on top of injury. :dilemma:

[dogday]

21. I fucking hate this shit.... I am so sick with worry for my Son

I forget about this even happening. You think you want them home safe and in one piece and then you realize they have lost their mind. My deepest heartfelt wishes to this soldier and his family. May he find peace of mind.....

[renate]

23. sad beyond words

It's bad enough when people come back from war suffering like this when it's a war that needs to be fought, like the World Wars, but when it's a war of choice... when people die and are crippled body and soul and it didn't need to happen... well, obviously there aren't words for the tragedy and the utter wrongness of it all.

I am so so sad for all the soldiers who suffer in this way and all the families who have to stand by as they endure this pain.

BTW, on the teambio page there's a further link to some good quasi-yellow ribbon stickers and magnets:
http://www.cafepress.com/2571

[ClayZ]

24. "The WAR has come home...It comes home with every soldier."

:cry:


:kick:

[samhsarah]

32. So sad.

:cry:

[lonestarnot]

36. I am sorry JohnyCanuk

:cry: