Is Cindy Sheehan attempting to become a martyr?

[Egalitariat]

And by martyr, I don't mean dying. But she's clearly on her way to a prison sentence. She's been arrested many times for bullshit transgressions, but arrested nonetheless. But now her arrests are starting to amount to probation violations, and today I read she's in Cuba (I'm assuming illegally) protesting at Gitmo.

She keeps taking more and more rope and we all know how that usually ends up.

[mmonk]

1. More like victim and conscience rather than a Martyr.

[Gregorian]

2. I have thought that about Bush.

Cindy's fine. But Bush is already a martyr of sorts. A republican martyr? That just doesn't work. I need a dictionary.

[17yroldtwins]

3. Only Those Who Have Lost a Child Can Know

I can't imagine Cindy Sheenan's greif. Dear God, I don't want to try.

This woman is brave and strong because of the pain she has endured.

I don't think she wants to be a martyr. She just wants to make her presence in this life TWICE as significant to make up for the empty hole in her heart.

This woman is putting herself on the line for all of us.

[WiseButAngrySara]

20. That was good. I noticed you emphasized TWICE ..and your

name. Do you have twins? :hi:

[bobbolink]

47. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[Stephanie]

52. Exactly right.

She's broken-hearted. She wants to save every other woman's child. She's on a mission and nothing can stop her. But believe me, she's tired.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

4. You're onto her

She's pulling a Gandhi. I've heard whispers she also plans on fasting while in prison.

[wtmusic]

5. No.

She's pushing the limit because that's all her dead son would want her to do. It's the only way she can make any meaning out of it.

IMO she doesn't give a damn what anyone on the right OR left thinks of her.

[Gatchaman]

8. I don't think Casey would want her to destroy herself

She's gone beyond being a voice of the anti-war movement and has become a shrill voice of irrationality. There is no debate, there is no discussion, it has to be exactly what she wants.

Yes, it's important to end an unjust war. But her methods are not working, and they will not work. She does more to paint the anti-war movement as a bunch of kooks than any right wing talk radio host could do.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[paulk]

72. what? everyone who doesn't agree with your way of

looking at things is somehow either a right winger or is repeating a right wing talking point? There are plenty of people on the left who have come to the same conclusion as the poster you denigrate.


what a shallow and empty argument .

[Richard Steele]

15. Please consider your concerns "duly noted".

[Cameron27]

77. Duly noted by whom?

[wtmusic]

17. The "shrill voice of irrationality"?

What has Cindy said that's irrational? What is it that has to be "exactly as she wants"? How do you figure her methods are not working, when she's probably done more than any one person to bring attention to the criminality behind the war? Is it "kookiness" to protest outside the White House until you get arrested, or just a heartbroken Mom's desperation? Should she stay home and write a letter to her representative? Have you listened to what she has to say, or are you regurgitating Scarborough soundbites?

[mmonk]

18. What's irrational is the Iraq war, the neocon dream of

conquest, an America that is an international rogue and torturer. Cindy is the rational one.

[leftchick]

28. apparently you knew Casey?

"shrill voice of irrationality"??? :rofl:

I imagine people like you said such things to Ghandi and MLK as well. Thank God they did not listen.

:eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

63. But Cindy is neither of those.

I'm getting tired of discussion being squelched by having someone imply that to be against Cindy means that you'd have been against the likes of Ghandi or MLK.

It has a similar effect on discussion as "Why do you hate America". Suddenly you're arguing that you don't hate America, or in this case civil rights, or peace.

Time will tell if Cindy compares to either of them. It will depend on what results she gets.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

39. Yet, she's still in the corporate news, she's still driving the Faux aireheads crazy and she's doing...

what she needs to do. Keeping the Gold Star families in the spotlight.

This f***king war robbed her of her child. There are many families who feel as she does.

I work with a woman whose son had horrific facial injuries, including the loss of an eye and significant brain injury after being hit by an IED on his second tour as a Marine in Iraq.

She has the utmost admiration for Cindy Sheehan, and, if this woman had the means to do, she would be doing the same. As it is, her life now consists of managing the care of her 20 year old son, who will require significant medical and mental health care for the rest of his life.

And,yes, Cindy's making her demands. She's an American citizen and, as such, is entitled to challenge her government.

MKJ

[dogday]

43. Shrill, that is a word I hear the right

repeat all the time when they speak of Cindy... just sayin :shrug:

[Libby2]

92. Yep, it sure is.

;-(

[iamthebandfanman]

98. n/t

:nopity:

[Reterr]

45. "She does more to paint the anti-war movement as a bunch of kooks "

Ultimately this is what it comes down to isn't it? Now that you centrists and moderates have the Dems in the House and the Senate, you no longer want those of us who were marching the streets and fighting the fights that many of you who are so obsessed with "what you look like" would never do. We "make you look bad" now.

Ok kids from the looky far left, our job is done-lets pack up our bags and leave. We are embarassing these wonderful, sensible pragmatists :sarcasm:

[uppityperson]

6. May be actively trying, may be not actively trying & doesn't care

Go Cindy, I stand with you.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

7. Or she could actually care that much about her message?

:shrug:

Whatever the case, she has my support.

[uppityperson]

9. That is what I meant but didn't express right in first bit

she cares enough to get arrested, to get publicity for the message. She has my support also.

[Jim__]

11. If we were all doing what she's doing, this war would end.

She's doing what has to be done. The rest of us should be with her.

[noamnety]

12. Have you ever asked that question about a man? (nt)

[OutNow]

13. Wrong Question

The question is not whether Cindy Sheehan is getting arrested too often, but why the rest of us aren't there with her. I had the pleasure of getting arrested with her and about 500 others in September 05 in Washington D.C.

I can tell you this - they can arrest 5 or 6 people for nonviolent civil disobedience and it doesn't even make the news - with 500 it does make the news and maybe makes some people think about the morality of this insane war in Iraq - they can arrest 5000 of us (and yes I was there in May of 71 ) and it is the lead news story and they have to shut down much of D.C. to deal with us - but they can't arrest 50,000 of us - and it may get to that soon if Bush ignores the will of the Congress that we will need 50,000 in the street with the goal to stop this war and the willingness (even eagerness) to risk arrest to achieve that goal.

I'll be there if I have to hitchhike from Texas. And I will be in good company with Cindy and many other Camp Casey alumni, and hope that you all join us.

Bring the Troops Home Now!

[Jcrowley]

14. Way to go

See ya' there.

:hi:

The question you pose is THE question.

[question everything]

19. Some of us depend on regular paychecks

and, as was posted here recently, having an arrest record can prevent you from many decent paying jobs. Can even prevent you from access to decent rent or mortgage.

This is what I have wondered. I am biased. Both my spouse and I grew up in lower middle class, where parents had to work to provide food and shelter and clothing and, later, higher education.

Same is with us.

Thus, I often wonder how many supposedly activists can spend years and months protesting and being arrested... how do they pay for their food and shelter and clothing?

[silverojo]

23. Exactly.

That's why Bush wants to keep forcing more middle-class people ever farther downward on the income scale: So they'll be too busy just trying to stay alive, to get involved in politics. Kinda hard to take a bus to a protest when you're broke and starving...and that's just the way Bush and the Repukes like it. :mad:

[wtmusic]

32. That's a good one

I've got my own excuses, and they're not any better than yours.

[nini]

101. That's not an excuse.. it's reality

Not all of us have funding that allow us to not show up to a job so we can support our families etc.. Making one's family homeless isn't a method that makes sense here.

There are other ways of fighting the fight than going on the road like she is. If we all had her funding to do these things then I would say your comments would carry some weight.. but unfortunately reality doesn't allow it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. What funding?

Cindy is living on a wing and a prayer. Unless she has recently won the lottery, I don't know what funding you are referring to.

[nini]

138. She's got to be getting money from somewhere

get real. If she doesn't have an income how is she affording to get around?

Someone or some group is helping her and that is funding.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

145. The Gold Star Families support her, for one. However, I hardly see her doing a four star tour.

And, she isn't wearing designer clothes or "being seen" with famous people. She certainly has people advising her, although there's no reason to believe anyone collects a salary for being her advisor, spokesperson, hairdresser, make up artist, administrative assistant or any other "person".

She gets where she needs to go. And says what she will say. And her message is consistent. End the war, now. MKJ

[OutNow]

55. Oh yes, regular paychecks

Let's see if I can address your concerns. I also grew up in a poor family. My father had 8 years of school before he was forced to go to work to help support his family. He provided food and shelter, but had no money for higher education for his kids. I worked full time and went to college at night. It took 7 1/2 years to graduate. So, I wasn't off spending months protesting while my parents paid the bills.

I've been arrested about 14 times in the last 40 years. I don't go out of my way to get arrested. Many of the arrests were illegal, primarily because freedom of speech is protected by the 1rst amendment. So we fought back in court, in one case it took 5 years to overturn a conviction when the Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled 7-2 in our favor.

Yes, an arrest record can prevent you from getting a job. In my case, having the FBI visit your employer can definitely impact your career path. I discovered this after I got my FBI file via a FOI request. BTW - I got another job. And my kids always had enough to eat and a place to sleep.

Although my father was not well educated, he taught me things that you don't learn in school.

1. Never cross a picket line. He was a member of the painters union for almost 50 years. He went on strike, and I remember several months when we lived on government surplus cheese and food my aunts and uncles gave us. The employer tried to bribe my dad by offering him a management job. It didn't work because you never cross a picket line.

2. Put your money where your mouth is. I must have heard that 10,000 times growing up. Don't just talk about the ills of society, try to fix them. Give of your time and your money. In the 70s, the UFW called for a boycott of stores that sold non-union lettuce and asked for help in forming a picket line at those stores. Of course I helped. There was never a question about my regular paycheck. There was only a question of helping farm workers who had a much harder life than I. And I got arrested. Ending the Vietnam War. Ditto. Stopping Three Mile Island from reopening. Ditto. And now, doing what must be done to end the Iraq war. I think about the 3000+ soldiers who came home in a box. And their families. And I think about Casey Sheehan and his mom.

We each have to decide how much we can take before we take action against evil. I ask you to think how much it will take before the future of society becomes a high enough priority for you to take a risk like being arrested for a noble cause. The people that run our country are betting you'll stay quiet. I hope they're wrong.

Bring the troops home now.

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. Wow can I nominate a post?

Right on and A friggin MEN!!

:yourock:

[nini]

140. There's a difference between protesting full time and part time

No one said everyone shouldn't do their part and protest, fund organizations that get the word out, write letters, make phone calls, etc..

However, being able to do that as one's primary activities affects jobs and abilities to put food on the table.

I was also raised to never cross a picket line ( My family has not bought gas from Union/76 oil since 1949 because those fuckers never settled a strike when my dad worked there), we didn't buy grapes etc... However, we did our part in our own neighborhoods while supporting our families. We didn't have the luxury of taking trips to get there etc

We must take action - agreed. But people who do not have the money and time to go disrupt a press conference in DC to do so should not be vilified because they need to support a family either.

[WiseButAngrySara]

21. Right Answer. ....n/t

[EFerrari]

35. Thank you, OutNow.

We are in your debt.

[Stephanie]

53. Why can't we recommend a single reply to an OP?

K&R, if I could. Let's ask Skinner for this option. I bet they could set it up.

You are so right. And my 77 year-old Dad was just saying to me, where are the protests? This war won't end without protests. And I told him we DID protest. A million of us in NYC on Feb 14, 2003, along with millions more around world. Another million during the RNC in NY. But nobody HEARD about it. It wasn't COVERED. THAT is the issue. If a million people protest in Washington and nobody hears about it, did it happen?

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. Amen!!

Fellow Camp Casey alum here :hi:

[Tsiyu]

16. No. Her son and all the others killed in this unjust war are the martyrs

if anyone needs to look for martyrs.

She's speaking out relentlessly on behalf of the kids who are still alive, and it must be effective because it sure is pissing off the people who don't give a damn about any of our military.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CatWoman]

25. why don't you just fire up the bonfire

and get it out of your blood once and for all?

[AZBlue]

30. Truth hurts, huh?

Here's a band-aid.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

40. When you go after Cindy, you go after the Gold Star Families, which is the organization

for whom she speaks.

These are all families who have their loved ones serving, or have lost those loved ones to this war.

Now, AZBlue, if you think this illegal occupation is just hunky dory, I can see where you have no problem attacking Americans who are giving, or have given, the ultimate sacrifice through the service of their loved ones.

BTW, I am veteran, US Army. I feel that the Gold Star families are worthy of a voice, which is the voice of Cindy Sheehan.

You call compassion for the troops and their families, including Cindy, drinking the kool aid.

I'm sure you'll have yet another witty riposte in response to this post. :eyes: MKJ

[AZBlue]

50. Is she their elected leader/representative/poster child? I wasn't aware of that.

I don't associate the two together in all things. I associate the anti-war position with them both, but not all of Cindy's actions with the Gold Star Families. I AM NOT "attacking Americans who are giving, or have given, the ultimate sacrifice through the service of their loved ones" - and you have a lot of nerve claming that I am. I'm "attacking" many of Cindy's ill thought-out moves, not her personally or her personal loss. So I suggest you either show me where I've attacked either of those or grow up.

Witty enough for you?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

57. .

if funny equals witty, well, then yes!

:rofl: MJ

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

60. Here's a link to their website. All will be illuminated.

http://www.gsfp.org/

:eyes: MKJ

[AZBlue]

61. That's not the official Gold Star website. As you well know.

eom

[proud2BlibKansan]

116. What are you talking about?

Are you a Gold Star Family member? What other website is there?

[AZBlue]

127. American Gold Star Mothers, Inc was formed in 1928 - without Cindy Sheehan (imagine that)

http://www.goldstarmoms.com/agsm/Home/index.htm

[proud2BlibKansan]

130. That's not the organization we were talking about

Imagine that!

[AZBlue]

139. Exactly my point

I don't have to "imagine" anything.

[LittleClarkie]

64. I keep asking if a Freeper mother who'd given the same sacrifice

would also be given the same consideration around here. After all, she would be a grieving mother too.

I just don't like it when people try to squelch discussion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

113. If she spoke out against the war, yes she would

but then she probably wouldn't be a freeper, then would she? :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. She founded GSFP

Is that a strong enough leadership position for you?

[nam78_two]

41. Truth??

Well, she's already a martyr in her own mind and a saint to those on DU who've drunk the kool-aid.

How is that "truth"? At best it is your opinion. Neither you nor I know what she is in her own mind. Again this bit "saint to those on DU who've drunk the kool-aid" is your opinion. FWIW I don't think she is a saint, but she is a private citizen who has done far more for the anti-war movement I would wager than most of the keyboard warriors on DU combined. But, I wouldn't say that last statement is the "truth". Its my opinion and I could be wrong.

[CatWoman]

51. no dear; quite the contrary

stupidity hurts.

glad to see you're stocked up on band aids.

[wtmusic]

26. What is she trying to "make herself out to be"

and why? Why do you think she gives a crap what others think of her?

[AZBlue]

29. Because she's paying more attention to her own press now than her supposed cause.

[wtmusic]

31. How the hell do you know that?

And because Cindy's press is a big part of her cause, she should pay attention to it. What's important is her motive. You believe it's just self-aggrandizement?

[nam78_two]

42. Wow I wish I had the power to read minds too

Thanks to all those of you who know exactly what Cindy and various other people think, feel and who have their motivations down so accurately. And who also know exactly what the outcome of her actions is going to be, without any room left for doubt etc. etc.

I wish I had your talents. I envy you your absolute confidence in the absolute accuracy of your own opinions :eyes:.

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. WTF???

You obviously don't know her at all. She could care about her own press.

Here is Cindy's agenda:

END THE WAR

That's pretty much it. She also wants bush impeached and tried for war crimes but ending the war and saving lives is her main goal.

It's also not a "supposed cause". In case you hadn't noticed, 3014 of our soldiers have died in Iraq.

[EFerrari]

36. delete

[leftchick]

37. watch it

you are asking way too many pertinent questions that will largely go unanswered.

peace

:)

[EFerrari]

38. My New Year resolution was to really try to 'do no harm'.

Let's see how far I get. :silly:

[ScreamingMeemie]

58. Thank you, Dr. Freud.

n/t

[JackBeck]

24. Cindy is doing an excellent job at making an example of how we should be standing up to power.

Before it became fashionable, I used to raise money and protest in the face of Fred Phelps.

Lots of people used to ask me why I gave a damn.

Cindy Sheehan and I are cut from the same cloth.

[midnight]

59. I guess caring about others, and their futures is not acceptable.

Apparently asking questions and wanting answers is a foreign way of acting.

[earth mom]

27. How is doing the right thing being a martyr?

Cindy is acting as many did in the 60s and 70s. These days, most of us are all just too comfy and afraid to do the same because we fear that we have too much to lose.

When you've lost a child you have nothing to lose. :cry:

[Alamom]

33. No truer words*........ Thank you & so many others for defending

Cindy and all parents who may not walk in lockstep while trying to overcome the loss of a child.
I guess some here know a secret of how you're supposed to act ....no one ever told us what that was.

I also can't imagine people would condemn or judge when they haven't walked in those shoes :sarcasm:

From where I sit, Cindy is doing all she knows to do to draw attention to the loss of life and grief because of asshat's war.


*When you've lost a child you have nothing to lose.

I stand with Cindy.

[EFerrari]

34. No, she's trying to end a war.

[dogday]

44. And she won't stop until the war is over

Why is that so hard to understand? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

46. I get it.

:shrug:

[dogday]

48. I didn't mean you...

people in general.... :hi:

[EFerrari]

49. Yep.

:hi:

[conscious evolution]

54. Cindy speaks for me

End this fucking war now!

[porphyrian]

56. I think she's just acting without fear of becoming one.

Most of us can't do that ourselves.

[tavalon]

62. I don't think she's specifically trying to go there

but that can be the way of a peace activist. She will continue to make waves even if she ends up in prison.

[SteveC]

65. Poor Cindy

She is mad at Bush, but it was what she taught her son that killed him. (Or didn't teach him, as the case may be)

Her "assault" on Crawford was a lot like her sons assault on Baghdad. In a classic example of doublethink, she has gone from love to hate, full throttle. Take down the old posters, put up the new ones.

Of course she is right that the war is wrong and moronic, but a LOT of people knew that before her son was killed.

She is grieving more than anything else. Sad. Tragic. Human. But a martyr? Only in her own delusions of avoidence. She is spreading hate. Like the anti-war movement of the 60's, she is very war-like. War is peace, etc.

It's too bad that so much of our politics can't seem to get out of this Orwellian loop.

She wants to be loved and forgiven for making a mistake with her son, but only she can give that to herself. When the war is over, maybe she will finally come face to face with her mirror.

[Madspirit]

66. agree and disagree

I don't agree with your assessment of the 60s and I was there. However, I do agree that much of her behavior, from a psychological viewpoint, is grief avoidance because I've noticed this behavior in others who have lost loved ones, particularly children. They will do anything to avoid the grief. They get super involved in all sorts of things. ANYTHING to avoid being alone with the feelings. The sad thing is, the feelings will not go away. You just can't escape them. You have to go through them.

That said, it does not mean she is not effective. We are all motivated by something.

Does she have other children? ...because I bet they feel they have not only lost a brother but they have lost a mom. (I don't know if she does have other children or not...just sayin'...)
Madspirit

[treestar]

102. I've thought that too

When people go on about the death of the child being the worst thing and you have nothing left, what about the other children?

Or when they posture they would let themselves be killed first, or let their spouse be killed first, if it would prevent the death of a child (which I call posturing because the odds of that situation are so slim that even announcing what you'd do seems like you're just trying to blow your own horn).

Anyone who is against the war has the same authority for being against it - you don't have to have lost a son in it to see what's wrong with it.

And some who lost a son in it still support it. And still supporting killing the sons of other people - the Iraqis.

We've let the right turn military service into a sacred cow, and since somebody has to be carrying it out, we have to be so careful what we say. Subjecting ourselves to the crap about how we have to preface everything with "I support the troops, blah, blah." This particular lady is on our side as regards the war, but it's like we agree with the Freepers that we have no moral right to protest just because we aren't military or family of military. We need someone in her position.

[proud2BlibKansan]

121. So you don't know enough about her to know if she has other kids

but you think you know enough about her to psychoanalyze her behavior.

Good grief.

On edit, yes she has other kids. I have met them. They have been at Camp Casey with her.

[tavalon]

68. Different point of view

I don't agree but who knows? Neither of us are inside her heart or brain.

[LittleClarkie]

73. I'm not sure I get you

Are you saying she taught him to be a soldier? I'm not sure that's true.

Are you saying she was unaware politically before he died? I'm not sure that's true either. She sounds quite aware to me, and it seems she says that it was the recruiters who got ahold of him and brainwashed him.

[Bridget Burke]

75. How was the anti-war movement "war-like"?

Some of the trustfund SDS'ers I knew liked to talk tough, but most of us hated the war.

Are you one of those "you leftists are just as extreme as the rightists" folks?

[Zuiderelle]

87. Are you blaming Cindy for her son's death?

that's fucked up

[dogday]

95. As the mother of a Soldier who just recently

returned home from Iraq, this is all I have for you and your statement....

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Oh another keyboard commando who doesn't know Cindy

Welcome to DU :hi:

Cindy is NOT delusional, she is most definitely NOT spreading hate and she most certainly did not launch an assault on Crawford.

And why you attribute her son's death to his upbringing is just too friggin ignorant to contemplate.

[omega minimo]

67. Cindy Sheehan is acting as if we have a participatory democracy, a right to participate

and citizens willing to do it.

[Madspirit]

70. Cindy Sheehan is acting as if we have a participatory democracy, a right to participate

I don't question that. I don't even question her effectiveness. I just said that more than one thing usually motivates a person and I think she is also doing a bit of grief avoidance. I have seen this many many times in people who have lost children.
Madspirit

[omega minimo]

74. My reply was to the OP, not your post. (if she was "avoiding," she would not be doing what she is)

[Madspirit]

76. wrong...if she was "avoiding," she would not be doing what she is

Wrong. Ask a shrink. This is exactly what people do to avoid the grief. Exactly. Go look at people who have lost children to murder. They go get uber involved in Pro death penalty stuff...become activists, etc. Or any other thing like that. Anything to avoid sitting alone at home with that bedroom of the dead child. This is not a value judgment nor am I saying anything about her effectiveness. ...but really...go ask a shrink.
It's sad when people can't even discuss the WHOLE thing without knee-jerk responses. I like to discuss the psychology of behavior.
Madspirit

[omega minimo]

80. I asked her.

[Madspirit]

81. I asked her

What does that even mean? People in the middle of grief avoidance don't even know it. Once again, I am not saying she is unprincipled, nor am I saying she is ineffective. I have run grief workshops. I've seen this a million trillion times.
Madspirit

[omega minimo]

84. Mad spirit

"It's sad when people can't even discuss the WHOLE thing without knee-jerk responses."

[Madspirit]

85. ...and that means?

Huh?

[proud2BlibKansan]

122. Ineffective?

Tell that to the 12,000 people who flocked to Crawford to join her in August of 2005.

[ellisonz]

134. I don't think most of us have issues with that...

In fact she should be lauded for that courageous act, in proportion of course. Most of us take issue with what she's done since then...Just sayin.'

I would also point out that she was hardly the first person to stick their neck out to oppose Bush (it needs to be said, she merely dramatized it for the masses *snark*). Howard Dean started with no staffers, driving around New England trying to get the ball rolling, he built a movement, scared the bejesus out of the establishment, would have won the nomination if it weren't for the MSM (IMHO), and look he's DNC Chair now!

[happydreams]

117. Are you a government psychologist?

[Madspirit]

137. Are you a government psychologist?

Yeah...that's right...because anyone who thinks about the complexities of things must be a bad bad person...EVEN THOUGH THE COMPLEXITIES OF THINGS ARE WHAT THE FUCKING THREAD IS ABOUT.

Are you a Giant Troll who accuses anyone who thinks about things deeply of being a government psychologist? ...because that must make you a fun conversationalist.

Madspirit

[happydreams]

143. Jeezzy wheezy, I didn't accuse you of anything....

I was just asking a question. :crazy:

Your name is accurate that's fer sure.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. Shame about what's happened to the 1st amendment.

Ain't it.

[Cameron27]

79. The first amendment...

it's a wonderful, isn't it? Everyone has the right to question and voice an opinion... even the OP...even about Cindy Sheehan...that's great, isn't it?

[LittleClarkie]

71. I was looking for an interview where I remember her saying that she revitalized the peace movement

which won the election, which is why she feels the Dems first job is to get out of Iraq. It seemed a tad presumputous to say that it started with her and Camp Casey, but then again, maybe she's right. But I do think that there were more factors going into the win in November than Iraq, though that was certainly part of it.

But instead of that article, I find a bunch of interviews, many for Counterpunch, and several others.

I am a bit disturbed by what I read. I'm wondering if she was a Dem or a Repub before Casey died. I've seen both claimed, so that confuses me. I also didn't appreciate this quote I found:

"And about Bill Clinton . . . . You know, I really think he should have been impeached, but not for a blow job. His policies are responsible for killing more Iraqis that George Bush. I don't understand why to rise to the level of being president of my country one has to be a monster. I used to say that George Bush was defiling the Oval Office, but it's been held by a long line of monsters. We don't have to support our administrations to love our country. True patriots of my country dissent when our country's doing something so wrong."

I don't know if that's true, that he's killed more Iraqis than Bush. But I have a problem with calling him a monster.

And this quote, well, she sounds like Nader, which goes with the Nader vibe I've been getting from her:

http://bluestein.com/?p=138

"CS: We don’t have very good choices in this country. There’s some races that are outstanding where there are very good choices. A lot of times those people don’t tend to win. But what we have to do, first of all, is we have to get over this idea that we vote for the lesser of two evils because we don’t want the more evil person to win. Because when you’re voting for the lesser of two evils you still get something that’s evil and that doesn’t conform to your own personal attitudes. So you’re going in, you’re voting against your conscious, you’re voting against your integrity, you’re voting against your courage, you’re voting out of your fear. And you’re getting these people who are basically- the Democrats and Republicans are two different sides of the same coin. That’s all they are. When it comes to war and peace issues they’re almost identical. You can’t tell them apart. But since we right now in this country- it’s too late to have a third party revolution, or even a second party would be nice I think, then you have to- we have to exercise our responsibility and our own democracy. "

A dime's worth a difference, indeed.

Her message was so powerful in 2005, down in Camp Casey. I feel that she's done little since by dillute the power she had then.

[Madspirit]

83. Unprincipled Voting...jeez

I HATE it when people say it is unprincipled to vote for the lesser of evils. The ONLY people who ever say that are white people with a belly full of food. I think it is unprincipled to vote for a candidate that cannot win and only steals votes from someone who might have won otherwise. Blech on that.
Madspirit

[noonwitch]

78. She doesn't speak for me

I think she's mentally unstable. I sympathize with her loss, but not with her actions. She is going to end up in jail, but it won't be because the dems or the repubs have her arrested, it will be because she crosses a line and commits some type of criminal behavior. Trespassing is a crime, for example.

It's not like she will go to jail for any length of time, although I get the feeling that that is what she wants, so she can get even more attention.

[LittleClarkie]

82. I don't think she's unstable

I do think she's Nader in drag though

[noonwitch]

86. LOL!

That was funny.

[Cameron27]

88. I think so too. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

124. Do you think Daniel Ellsberg is unstable too?

Do you even know who he is?

He's been arrested more than 70 times.

HAVE YOU BEEN TO JAIL FOR JUSTICE?

© 1998 Anne Feeney (BMI)

Was it Cesar Chavez? Maybe it was Dorothy Day
Some will say Dr. King or Gandhi set them on their way
No matter who your mentors are it's pretty plain to see
That, if you've been to jail for justice, you're in good company

Have you been to jail for justice? I want to shake your hand
Cause sitting in and lyin' down are ways to take a stand
Have you sung a song for freedom? or marched that picket line?
Have you been to jail for justice? Oh, you're a friend of mine!

You law abiding citizens, come listen to this song
Laws were made by people, and people can be wrong
Once unions were against the law, but slavery was fine
Women were denied the vote and children worked the mine
The more you study history the less you can deny it
A rotten law stays on the books til folks like us defy it

The law's supposed to serve us, and so are the police
And when the system fails, it's up to us to speak our peace
It takes eternal vigilance for justice to prevail
So get courage from your convictions
Let them haul you off to jail!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/Lyrics.cfm?BandID=164922&songid=1134144

Listen to it -> http://www.annefeeney.com/Pages/jailforjustice.html

[LittleClarkie]

129. I said I DIDN'T think she was unstable. DIDN'T.

Was your reply meant for one step up from me?

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. Oops yes I guess so.

Sorry bout that.

[LittleClarkie]

132. No worries

.

[Madspirit]

89. She speaks for me

What's wrong with trespassing and MISDEMEANOR criminal actions in the name of a righteous mission? Of course, I was around during the Viet Nam war. We did all sorts of things and they were necessary.
I mean please...trespassing?!
Madspirit

[Cameron27]

90. There's nothing wrong with

civil disobedience. I part company with her when she voices "third-party" sentiments that Democrats = Republicans. I also don't share her opinion of Chavez, and thought that was an unnecessary distraction to the anti-war message. But that's just my opinion.

[LittleClarkie]

91. Case in point: Do you think Bill Clinton killed more Iraqis with his policies than Bush has?

And that he should have been impeached on those grounds instead of Monica having sucked his winkie.

I don't share her "dime's worth a difference" attitude re: the Dems.

[Cameron27]

93. No, I don't agree with her about this at all.

Nader made me angry as hell with this crap, so I'm not pleased when anyone spouts off against the Democrats.

I personally think that she's going to lose more support taking these positions, but time will tell.

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cameron27]

128. Why don't you say what you're implying.

What a completely baseless and fraudulent way to argue an opinion. Civil disobedience -- the phrase disturbs you?

Idiot.

[noonwitch]

94. They're criminal activities, and when people want to use something against you

they find criminal activities to charge you with that you are actually guilty of. It's easier than framing someone, after all.

I was a kid during Vietnam, but I remember the anti-war protests. I personally don't think Nixon decided to pull out based on the anti-war movement, he based it on the fact that it was a quagmire he couldn't figure a better way out of. If the antiwar movement had caused him to back out, he would have done so in 1969.

[Madspirit]

97. Your view of the 60s/70s is simplistic.

The anti war movement was extremely important. It influenced the American people's attitudes and THAT is important to any president. It wasn't just a few nut case hippies. It was everyone we influenced.

...and what the right says..."all those commie professors helping shape kid's minds toward leftist politics..."...<g> HELL YES!! ....and we had that too. ...and it was good.

...and also something of a United Front with the black movement and the feminists and early gay movement...environmentalists...Earth Day used to be big...and SDS was an offshoot of the Democratic Party, just fyi...and Yippies and Hippies... ...and most of us worked TOGETHER when it came to the Viet Nam war.

We had a draft then. Young men and those who care for them, didn't really have the luxury of the choice of whether to become politically involved or not. The Vote Movement. 21 was the voting age and it was suddenly Awful to Think...they can draft young boys...who weren't even old enough to vote.

We affected EVERYTHING. There really were tons and tons of us...mega tons...large weight amounts...of us...unless you believe the Right-Wing-Asshole Spin.

We influenced OTHERS. That's how the anti war movement affected Nixon.

Issues are complex and you can NEVER just point to one thing and say..."that's it". Lots of things affect change.

...and I think that some times you have to break laws and I remember how the police could use crimes against you too. I have been tear gassed and hauled in, etc. It was par for the course. ...and sometimes you have to go through that if the cause is sufficient.

People who downplay the Great Influence and Total Social Revolution of the 60s and 70s are entirely buying The Spin of the Right...

...and need to go listen to some Grateful Dead, Dylan or Zappa...maybe even The Moody Blues and smoke one...or more. ...and I'm not kidding.

I don't need 60s/70s bashers or apologists. I'm proud of the 60s/70s.
Madspirit

[JVS]

96. What's wrong with becoming a martyr? If you've got the nerve for it more power to you

[Madspirit]

99. What's wrong with becoming a martyr? If you've got the nerve for it more power to you

Nothing. I never said her actions aren't noble. I never said they aren't effective. I said I think her grief is part of the fuel. All things...are complex. Grief, love, emotions in general, more than Ideology even, have probably been part of the fuel of every Revolution.
Madspirit

[Disturbed]

100. "she's in Cuba (I'm assuming illegally)."

Wrong assumption. She and her group are there legally.

[Cameron27]

141. This is confusing.

Is she there legally or illegally?

snip> "I was asked if I was worried about being in the country "illegally." Actually, I am not as worried about that as I am about our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who are hated and targeted because of Bloody George the Torturer's inhumane sanctioning of the horrific treatment of prisoners in such places as Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. I am not as worried about being in Cuba illegally as I am about the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan who are caught in the cross hairs of American imperialism which is ruining their countries and killing and maiming their populations."

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/696

[happydreams]

103. "Ilegally in Cuba". Now that has alot of meaning in itself.

It would be real interesting to see her on trial for that. No way Bush is going to push that button now. Inadvertantly or otherwise Cindy is calling attention to more than just the Iraq War; she is calling attention to the insanity of the US's position in the world and its absolutely abysmal attitude towards Cuba. A place with a higher literacy rate than the US.

She is wise as well as deeply committed to her noble cause.

[Cameron27]

105. Then we should expect that she'll support the efforts of

the families of political prisoners in Cuba, since she plans to attend a conference on human rights there:

HAVANA: "Wives and mothers of Cuban political prisoners urged U.S. peace activist Cindy Sheehan on Monday to visit the island's state-run jails during her weeklong trip to Cuba to call for the closure of the U.S.-operated Guantanamo prison.

The Ladies in White, a group of women demanding the release of their loved ones, described what they called "inhumane" conditions at Cuba's prisons in a letter for Sheehan that was sent to international reporters. The group said it was trying to get a copy to Sheehan as well.

"At the same time you and your noble followers fight for the closure of the U.S. prison at the Guantanamo naval base ... just a few miles away at the provincial Guantanamo prison in Cuban territory, peaceful and defenseless political prisoners suffer inhumane conditions, (living) without potable water and with poor nutrition, deficient medical assistance, insects and rodents, limited visits and precarious communication," the letter said."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/08/news/CB-GEN-Cuba-Ladies-in-White.php

[happydreams]

106. dissidents or seditionists? Any group of people

funded by the US government in Cuba has some splanin' to do. Mainly since the fact that the US government has been trying to overthrow Castro for over 40 years and the people, particularly the Bushies, who are behind it are more worried about their sugar, gambling,oil, and drug interests than those of the people.

You have any more information on these "ladies"

[Cameron27]

109. According to the news story

they're families of dissidents.

"Their jailed husbands and sons are among 75 activists rounded up in the spring of 2003 and sentenced to prison terms ranging from six to 28 years. Sixteen of those prisoners have since been released for health reasons, but more than 300 human rights activists, independent journalists and members of outlawed political parties remain behind bars, according to rights groups."

[happydreams]

112. research it back a little further and tell me what you find.

[Cameron27]

120. In Oct. 2005, The Ladies in White

were awarded the prestigious Sakharov Prize by the European Parliament.

snip> "In the spring of 2003, the Cuban government arrested and summarily tried and sentenced 75 human rights defenders, independent journalists, and librarians to terms of up to 28 years in prison. The wave of arrests is widely considered the most severe crackdown on civil society that Cuba has seen in years. The repressive move was roundly condemned by foreign governments, the United Nations and human rights organizations. Of the 75 who were imprisoned, 14 have since been conditionally released for health reasons."

snip> "In the face of persistent threats, insults and attempts to silence them by the Cuban government and its civilian mobs, these courageous activists remain steadfast in their struggle for justice and human rights, and in their commitment to peaceful advocacy. Their work to promote human rights in Cuba has earned the recognition and respect of the international community. In October 2005, the Ladies in White were awarded the prestigious Sakharov Prize by the European Parliament."

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/defenders/hrd_cuba/hrd_cuba_blanco.htm

[happydreams]

123. hee, hee. Now why doesn't the "humanrightistsfirst" group

back the GTMO detainees?
Look at their website. They don't back anything but the Cubans.
Go on fire off a letter demanding that they share their compassion for those in a fascist detention centers as well. :eyes:

But before you do lets make a bet that they won't even reply.

Wanna bet?

How much?

I'll be back tomorrow.

[Cameron27]

125. Why don't you check and see

who was awarded the Sakharov prize:


http://www.europarl.europa.eu/comparl/afet/droi/sakharov/default.htm


1988 NELSON ROLIHLAHLA MANDELA and ANATOLI MARCHENKO (posthumously

1989 ALEXANDER DUBCEK

1990 AUNG SAN SUU KYI


........

2004 BELARUSIAN ASSOCIATION OF JOURNALISTS

2005 LADIES IN WHITE
HAUWA IBRAHIM
REPORTERS WITHOUT FRONTIERS

[happydreams]

142. Looks like the righties have taken over the Sakharov

prize nomination process. :-(


You did send humanrightist watch a request to address the issue of the GTMO detainees didn't you?

Or do you not care about the GTMO detainees?

;)

[Cameron27]

126. Cuba is not the only country in their website.

But no, they don't include the Gitmo prisoners.

What does that have to do with The Ladies in White?

[happydreams]

148. Pardon my asking but what branch of the Intelligence Community

do you work for? Assuming, that is, you do work in the IC.

The reason I ask is because your selective concern for the Cuban seditionists and disintererst in far more blatant examples of human rights abuse as that in GTMO leads me to believe that you are using feigned concern for the former as a wedge issue.

edit grammar wc.

[Judi Lynn]

133. You may remember recently reading the "dissidents" were outed recently

for asking for receipt of various luxury items. Here's a look at an article on the event:

Cuban democracy funds spent on Game Boys

Richard Luscombe in Miami
Wednesday November 15, 2006
Guardian Unlimited

The PlayStation: an unexpected tool for promoting democracy?

Cuban dissidents who were given millions of dollars by the US government to support democracy in their homeland instead blew money on computer games, cashmere sweaters, crabmeat and expensive chocolates, which were then sent to the island.

A scathing congressional audit of democracy-assistance programmes found “questionable expenditure” by several groups funded by Washington in opposition to President Fidel Castro’s rule on the communist Caribbean island.

The Miami-based Acción Democrática Cubana spent money on a chainsaw, Nintendo Game Boys and Sony PlayStations, mountain bikes, leather coats and Godiva chocolates, which the group says were all sent to Cuba. “These people are going hungry. They never get any chocolate there,” Juan Carlos Acosta, the group’s executive director, told the Miami Herald.

He also defended the purchase of a chainsaw he said he needed to cut a tree that had blocked access to his office in a hurricane, and said that the leather jackets and cashmere sweaters were bought in a sale. “They think it’s not cold there,” Mr Acosta said. “At $30 {£16} it’s a bargain because cashmere is expensive. They were asking for sweaters.”
(snip/...)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,,1948445,00.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It looks as if Cindy Sheehan simply hasn't had the time to do any kind of research on who these people are before destiny thrust her into the spotlight. I'm sure too many people are coming at her with too many ideas. She needs to find out more about these people.

As the CIA reported long ago, concerning "dissidents:"

There is no indication, U.S. officials say, of any nascent rebellion about to spill into the streets, no great outpouring of support for human rights activists in prison. In fact, there are fewer than 100 activists on the island and a support group of perhaps 1,000 more, according to U.S. officials.

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ019.html

This admission from them is significant, considering all they've done to destabilize and wreck the Cuban government in the last 45 years!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As the U.S. Congress regularly allots millions of dollars to be given to these very few people,
and their engagement in actions contrary to Cuban law, and also contrary to OUR laws, were these people taking money from other governments to work against ours, UTTERLY illegal here for U.S. citizens, they are aware they are asking for trouble. Real dissidents, like Oswaldo Payá, whom is wildly disliked by the venemous Cuban right-wingers in Miami, are NOT seen as lawbreakers by the Cuban government:

Further to the strategy declared in Colin Powell’s report « Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba», whose aim is to lead the Cuban revolutionary process towards its complete annihilation, the campaign of misinformation against the Caribbean island,launched by the Bush administration and the Cuban extreme right in Florida, has spread widely into Europe. (1) In fact, from 17th to 19th September 2004 the « International Summit for Democracy in Cuba » was held in Prague in the Czech Republic, under the auspices of the International Committee for Democracy in Cuba, which was founded by the former Czech president Vaclav Havel.(2) This meeting, the propaganda impact of which is beyond doubt, marked a new phase in the American media war against Cuba, with the collusion of the European Union. (3)

Under Washington’s remote control, the meeting brought together several right and extreme right politicians on the International Committee for Democracy in Cuba, such as Vaclav Havel, former Spanish prime minister José Maria Aznar, and Madeleine Albright, former Secretary of State under the Clinton administration. They are, for the most part, closely linked to the White House and the fascist wing of the Cuban exiles which is deeply implicated in international terrorism. (4)

The Czech government, which has shown its loyalty to the United States on many occasions, was the sponsor of the meeting. A unit for « promoting the transition » in Cuba has even been recently created within the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, led by Gabriela Dlouha. (5). As early as 1999, at the request of Madeleine Albright, herself of Czech origin, the Czech authorities had tabled a resolution against Cuba during the meeting of the Commission for Human Rights in Geneva. Martin Palous, Czech ambassador to the USA, was delighted over the « role played » by his government concerning « the Cuban question ». Cuban-born Frank Calzon, a former CIA agent and director of the Center for a Free Cuba (an organisation controlled by the Cuban radical right), expressed his approval of the interventionist attitude of the Czech Republic. (6)

During this meeting on the theme of « Cuban dissidence », Vaclav Havel virulently condemned the arrests of 75 people by the Cuban authorities in March 2003. (7) In taking refuge behind the usual rhetoric about human rights, which crumbles at once when confronted by the facts, Mr Havel carefully evaded the details of this affair. He confined himself to calling for the release of Raúl Rivero, sentenced for conspiracy, subversive activities and collaboration with the setting up of the Washington blockade. In fact, on the payroll of the US government – a foreign enemy power which has been harassing Cuba since 1959 – Rivero participated in setting up the conditions necessary for destabilising Cuba, in flagrant violation of the laws of his country. (8).
(snip)

In fact, the invective against Havana by Oswaldo Payá, an occasional « dissident » and promoter of the hyped-up Varela Project (whose aim is to reinstate a capitalist economy in Cuba and which was strongly criticised by the Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry) (14), has a greater impact than any supposed poem against the Cuban president. (15) However, Mr Payá enjoys freedom of movement and travels abroad regularly, because, unlike his imprisoned associates, he has always refused the financial support offered by Washington and consequently has not broken Cuban law.
(snip/...)

~~~~ link ~~~~

[Cameron27]

135. I responded to this in the GDP thread.

I can only state that this organization received the Sakharov Prize:

Just like Andrei Sakharov, the previous winners of the prize which bears his name have demonstrated just how much courage, patience and inner strength is needed to defend human rights and campaign for their universal recognition. Almost all have paid dearly for their commitment to defending human dignity, and many have faced persecution, loss of personal freedom or exile.

1988 NELSON ROLIHLAHLA MANDELA and ANATOLI MARCHENKO (posthumously)
1989 ALEXANDER DUBCEK
1990 AUNG SAN SUU KYI
1991 ADEM DEMAÇI
1992 LAS MADRES DE LA PLAZA DE MAYO
1993 OSLOBODJENJE
1994 TASLIMA NASREEN
1995 LEYLA ZANA
1996 WEI JINGSHENG
1997 SALIMA GHEZALI
1998 IBRAHIM RUGOVA
1999 XANANA GUSMÃO
2000 ¡BASTA YA!
2001 IZZAT GHAZZAWI, NURIT PELED-ELHANAN and DOM ZACARIAS KAMWENHO
2002 OSWALDO JOSÉ PAYÁ SARDIÑAS
2003 UN SECRETARY GENERAL, KOFI ANNAN AND ALL THE STAFF OF THE UNITED NATIONS
2004 BELARUSIAN ASSOCIATION OF JOURNALISTS
2005 LADIES IN WHITE
2005 HAUWA IBRAHIM
2005 REPORTERS WITHOUT FRONTIERS

Link:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/comparl/afet/droi/sakharov/inspiration_en.htm

[Cameron27]

136. Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR250052005?open&of=ENG-CUB

Cuba: 71 prisoners of conscience continue to be imprisoned for expressing their ideas
The limitation of freedom of expression, association and assembly are serious human rights violations. They must stop immediately, said Amnesty International today as it published a report on prisoners of conscience in Cuba on the 2nd anniversary of the 2003 crackdown.

Amnesty International currently recognizes 71 prisoners of conscience imprisoned across the island for peacefully expressing their beliefs and opinions and calls on the Cuban government to immediately and unconditionally release all of them.

In Cuba, exercising freedom of expression is criminalized. This includes carrying out work with human rights organizations, publishing articles, giving interviews in media said to be critical to the Cuban government or contacting US officials in Cuba or members of the Cuban exile community in the USA is criminalized.

"All you have to do in Cuba to be imprisoned for months or even years is to disagree with the authorities," said Amnesty International.

[Judi Lynn]

144. I responded to this in the GD.P section:

It has often been said that Amnesty International’s agenda tends to fit nicely with the political needs of the United States and Great Britain. Around the world, supporters of the Nicaraguan people’s struggle for self-determination were outraged by the timing of a 1986 Amnesty report critical of the Sandinista government, which helped Reagan push another Contra Aid appropriation through a reluctant congress, at exactly the moment when the anti-Contra movement was beginning to get serious political traction.

With regard to South Africa’s apartheid regime, AI was critical of the human rights record of the South African government. However, as you will see below, AI never condemned apartheid per se. By the time Amnesty endorsed the Hill & Knowlton nursery tale concerning Kuwaiti infants pulled from incubators by Iraqi soldiers, many otherwise sympathetic observers of Amnesty’s work became increasingly alarmed.

More than a decade of grassroots organization within Amnesty’s membership base finally succeeded just two years ago in moving the organization to take a position critical of the genocidal sanctions against the people of Iraq, sanctions which have killed approximately a million and a half Iraqis, one third of them children. According to Dr. Boyle, this was political, and it clearly served the interests of the U.S. and Britain, the two governments on the Security Council preventing the lifting of the sanctions.
(snip/...)

http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0004573.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dr. Francis Boyle
Read Professor Boyle's 2001 Lecture.

Professor Francis Boyle is a distinguished author, lecturer, international lawyer, and advocate of human rights.

His legal career has included serving as attorney for victims of human rights abusers in Bosnia, and as legal advisor for the Palestinian Liberation Organization on the creation of the State of Palestine as well as legal advisor for the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations. In 1991, he submitted a petition to the United Nations on behalf of the children of Iraq, charging then President George Bush with crimes against humanity. He served as General Agent for the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina before the International Court of Justice, and advised President Izetbegovic and members of the collective Bosnian presidency during the Owen-Stolenberg negotiations.

Professor Boyle has been internationally recognized for his contributions to international law. The Chechen Republic of Ichkeria has appointed him Attorney of Record, and holds citizenship in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Ireland, and the United States. He received the 1997 Dare to Speak Out Award for the Council of National Interest.

He is the author of a number of publications including World Politics and International Law, Defending Civil Resistance Under International Law, and The Future of International Law and American Foreign Policy.

Francis Boyle is currently a Professor at the University of Illinois College of Law in Champaign.
(snip/)

http://www.ucalgary.ca/md/PARHAD/lecturer-boyle.htm

http://www.haefely.info/gesellschaft+politik_unobserver/faboyle%5Bbig%5D.jpg

Dr. Francis Boyle

[Cameron27]

146. I know.

I responded to your response there as well.

Let's leave it for another time. Peace.

[happydreams]

147. Damned interersting stuff Judi. Thanks for all the hard work.

I was going to say that Amnesty International, like the Sakharov Prize operation have been infiltrated with Righties.

[Judi Lynn]

149. You're right: many people have commented on their strange silence

in areas you'd truly expect to hear a LOUD message from them. It's there for the world to see, not just some law professor someone can try to devaluate by pointing out he has done work defending Palestinians, among so many, many others. (Shabby habit, isn't it?)

Yup, we've seen the oddest people being nominated for these prizes, and sometimes winning them. Truly makes you feel some very powerful changes have been made which aren't helpful to the human race any way at all.

The more they get "outed," the better.

[Judi Lynn]

150. There's a new letter Cindy Sheehan has written in response to the lie, and propaganda ploy

used to get publicity for the "Ladies in White" and introduce some more professionally honed crappola, probably from the new "Office of Public Diplomacy" in the basement janitor's closet in the White House where Otto Reich's replacement is scribbling away. Clearly, it was planted, and clearly, it's bogus! Really, really glad Cindy found out about it.

If you haven't seen it, you'll get a real kick from it.

It has been posted by Say_What at this link:
Say_What (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-10-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #224
227. Cindy Sheehan: I Shunned Cuban Women?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3082292#3090918

It's a thread, "Cindy Sheehan Impressed by Cuba Med School," started by Mika.

[Rex]

104. I think she simply doesn't care about laws when it comes to

trying to stop war and mass killing. A judge might see it differently, but sticking this woman in jail would empower her 100 fold.

[happydreams]

114. No kidding. Especially when the people charging her are the ones

doing the mass killing. :hi: