why do pres. candidates point/count with a raised thumb, not a finger?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

what PR cuntsultant taught them that showing a finger, any finger, is improper in US political circles? Watching Hillary yesterday, Obama the day before, Lindsay Graham and Joe Biden on MTP today, and McCain all last week, they make points by closing their fist and pointing up with their thumb.

BOYS, GIRLS, CHILDREN OF ALL AGES, STOP THAT SHIT! it is irritating, fake and distracting. Why not use a natural, real, and honest gesture, if you gesture at all? A raised thumb tells me that you are a creation of inside the bloatway bullscheiss, and therefore, you are primped, prepared, packaged, polled, even freeze-dried. Preparation is one thing, but damn it, having a live person talk naturally would make me feel one hell of a lot better.

I think we should respond to this crap by making the closed fist/raised thumb mean something really nasty - like the wiki definition of Santorum.

[illinoisprogressive]

1. Ever since Bill Clinton it came into vouge. It is irritating isn't it?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. i don't recall who started it, Kennedy, perhaps?

I was but a child, but I seem to recall him doing it, too.

[MADem]

7. Kennedy did it a bit, but Clinton raised it to an art form

[CJCRANE]

8. Tony Blair does this too.

I'm pretty sure he got it from Clinton.

on edit: New Labour was heavily influenced by Clinton's "Third Way" and triangulation ideas.

[OrwellwasRight]

3. I agree, irritating.

But worse is the habit of not answering questions, just repeating talking points. And they do it on both sides unless we are talking Dennis Kucininch and Al Sharpton. Let's work on that first.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. no kidding. substantive answers instead of Poll-filtered pap.

what a relief that would be.

That is why 6 yrs ago, McCain had an indie following, even if most of his ideas were ultraconservative. He spent time with the press, face time, answered questions, and did not rely on polls to craft his "message". Now, he has the Bush bug. He has measured, weighed, and carved out answers as carefully as the boy king did in 2000, using the reicht code words, and pandering like a bipolar bear on a shriking ice floe. I suspect that his ex-Bush advisors have a lot to do with that.

Good for us. moderates and indies that appreciated a breath of broken wind and fresh air back then, will not be sucked in here again. Only McCain does not realize it yet.

On the other side, Hillary has yet to produce one answer to any question that has not been dissected, diced, detailed, diagrammed, dieted, divided, and deliberated in advance. It makes her look unreal, and unpleasant. Compound that with her strong aversion to any hot issue, and you have a media group created candidate. And a majority of voters who do not trust, like and believe her.

[OrwellwasRight]

5. Great point about McCain.

I never thought about it that way, but I think you've hit the nail on the head. Even I (a self-identified socialist) found myself thinking McCain was likable and reasonable for a Republican, and in general I DON'T LIKE THEM, don't like what they stand for,or believe in.

On Hillary -- I couldn't agree more. I was no Bill fan, and I am certainly not a Hillary fan. She is hated by many across the spectrum of the right and by those (like me) on the far left. I hate that she "sucks up" to the right by being a war hawk, sponsoring the anti-flag burning amendment, and being wishy-washy on abortion rights. Didn't we learn from Kerry that this attempting to play both sides simply doesn't work?

People may say that the American public is stupid, but they frequently know a phony when they see one, and she is as big a phony as I have seen in a long time. I don't understand why people get into politics if they are not passionate about the issues in the first place.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. Senator Clinton

did not co-sponsor the flag-burning amendment, and in fact, voted against it.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00189

[OrwellwasRight]

11. Try taking a look at S. 1911 (109th Congress)

And yes I was sloppy in saying she sponsored a flag burning "amendment" when what she sponsored was a flag burning "law." And I never stated how she voted because I know that she voted no on the bill that came to the floor (which was a bill to amend the Constitution).

However, her co-sponsorship of this legislation is the worst kind of pandering to the right; and she now leaves herself open to charges of flip-flopping on the issue by the simpleton mainstream media, who gloss over nuance to create controversy.

For me, the nuance is pointless in any case-- no politician who claims to believe in "democracy" (small d) should be supporting this kind of bullshit restriction on free speech rights -- whether by Constitutional Amendment or otherwise.

[MonkeyFunk]

18. to me the nuance is NOT pointless

claiming she sponsored a constitutional amendment, when in fact she did not, and even voted AGAINST that amendment, is the same kind of silly freeper arguments against most Dems - claim they did something they never did, then hate them for it.

[helderheid]

6. I know! How weird!

[MADem]

9. In the Arab/Southwest Asian world, 'thumbs up' means 'up your ass'

It is as vulgar there as the upraised middle finger is here, or the V for Victory sign, flipped, is, in some European countries.

Puts a whole new aspect on this, eh:

[eppur_se_muova]

14. Of course that originally meant "let him live"; thumbs down meant "kill him".

This is how Roman emporers ruled on gladitorial contests.

[judaspriestess]

12. I thought it was because

generally when many people speak to you, they have a tendency to point their finger at you, not in a disrespectful way but it can be taken as being aggressive. The raised thumb is a kindler gentler version of pointing your index finger.

just IMHO

[Chorophyll]

16. That's what I heard too.

They don't want to look like they're scolding.

[eppur_se_muova]

13. I was told this is the way Germans do it -- thumb first, then first finger ...

don't know how widespread that is in other European countries.

[porphyrian]

15. To show it isn't in their ass? - n/t

[sammythecat]

17. I always find it distracting

when someone does that. I don't get it. Seems backward to me, as well as awkward. Try holding up 3 fingers and your thumb to represent 4.

I've never seen fans or athletes demonstrating their "number one'ness" by using their thumb.

[nedbal]

19. I bet the OP is a old timer that used to use a rotary dial phone and not a blackberry user

times have changed, people text with their thumbs and in general use thumbs to press and point, as opposed to earlier generations. hey I grew up with rotary phones and still have 2, of the 8 phones in this house

[ChairmanAgnostic]

20. heh? You gotta speak up. My hearing aid batteries ran out.

unfortunately, I have a blackberry, and several laptops (dual chip macs) but no rotary phones. In fact, no landline to the house.