Underground (literally) power lines?

[question everything]

The new communities in Southern California have their utilities buried underground. For aesthetics purpose, but as I was watching the news from Oklahoma and other places, where ice laden branches break utility lines, I wonder about the feasibility of having the power lines buried, in places where the ground can freeze.

[Solo_in_MD]

1. All it takes is money

Underground lines cost much more money per mile.

[question everything]

5. And how does this cost compare to the distruption

by ice storm after ice storm? People in Oklahoma have been without power since Friday.

Just another example of how our infrastructure has deteriorated in the past 30 years, or so?

[TreasonousBastard]

24. Well, in my town...

there are at least a hundred miles of poles sharing electricity, phone, and cable. Lots of places the phone company owns the poles, going back to old telegraph days, but I'm not positive about here. Anyway, you've got at least three entities sharing a pole and the costs who have to not only agree on how to allocate the cost of burying the cables but have to deal with town, county, and state approvals and might have to buy or lease the land they're digging up. There are a lot of poles in back yards, along the railroad tracks, and in the back of farms.

Sound easy?

New developments can fairly easily design for new underground cables, but I would fear the rate or tax increases from redoing the system. Cheaper to just buy an emergency generator or two. And lots of candles and batteries.

[MonkeyFunk]

2. Yeah

it'd be really nice if those eyesores could be put underground everywhere, but it's very expensive to do so.

[originalpckelly]

3. I think we should launch a national initiative to increase generation...

and transmission capacity for electric cars. It would be wonderful if we could bury the lines. Imagine, sunsets would look better.

[GreenZoneLT]

4. It's just a matter of money

The power companies apparently think it's cheaper to fix the above-ground lines than to bury them. Of course, they don't have to carry the expense of the lost business when the power goes out. Most new subdivisions in the U.S. have buried power lines and EVERYWHERE in Europe has them. I have a theory that we're hurting our economic competitiveness by having such an unreliable power grid, but I don't know the actual cost of burying everything.

[originalpckelly]

7. Well, we know it works in most subdivisions, so it can't be that hard...

If we're going to be putting electric cars on the power grid, we need to revamp it anyway. I think this might be the pristine opportunity to redo America's electrical grid. Maybe we'll be able to reclaim our vistas with underground lines?

[sutz12]

6. Same thing here in WA state.

Many areas lost power last month after a severe windstorm, some for days and days. Newer neighborhoods are going to underground power lines, but it would cost a ton to redo the older neighborhoods.

[uppityperson]

15. We have underground up our road, big road leading to it doesn't and some asshole

did a "almost clearcut" along it last summer, leaving enough big trees unsupported by others to take out power lines and block roads 3 times so far this fall/winter.

[VTMechEngr]

8. Some areas it is not feasible.

Take the Coastal SouthEast, which has water tables of five feet or so below the ground. In winter, that can rise and flood out your power lines.

[GreenZoneLT]

17. Yeah, then howcum they can do it in Holland?

It's technically more difficult and expensive to make waterproof conduits, but not impossible. It's not like you're burying the lines that deep, anyway, and they have to deal with rain drainage and condensation already.

[sandnsea]

9. Mine was buried in MT

From the box to the house for sure, I think to the box too. I don't recall frozen ground affecting the power in any way. It's when they're above ground and ice freezes on them that you've got real problems, sometimes moisture in the old lines too. This was at least 15 years ago, I would think all the lines would have been buried by now. I don't understand it.

[Bjornsdotter]

10. That's how it is

...In my neighborhood in northern Illinois.

Also like that in Sweden, except for the very rural areas.

Seems to work just fine.

Cheers

[Feron]

11. Having underground lines is nice, but...

if something breaks it can take hours and several holes to repair whereas aboveground lines can be repaired pretty quickly. However it is nice not to have transformer explosions and all of the other mess that comes with aboveground lines. So it's a tradeoff.

And in bad weather underground lines won't help you if the high-energy transmission lines are damaged. I don't know if those can be buried.

[GreenZoneLT]

18. The big transmission lines are pretty bullet-proof

The vast majority of the outages are caused by treefalls; the big transmission lines are above and away from trees. Takes a hell of a storm, basically a tornado or hurricane, to damage those lines.

[barb162]

21. yeah, the yards get torn up if there's a problem

One good thing I really like about them is you don't have to look at utility wires.

[DBoon]

12. In SoCal, would likely be safer in quakes

The ground itself actually moves much less than the swaying of power poles. Power lines that snap are serious hazards. I think underground lines would be much safer and more reliable.

[magellan]

13. I've wondered the same down here in FL

Underground lines make much more sense than above ground where they and the required poles are at risk whenever a hurricane blows through. Since 2004 they've been replacing snapped wooden poles with concrete ones on the main streets and thoroughfares. Why not go underground? I'm told it's not only the prohibitive cost of burying the lines, but also of digging them up when something goes wrong.

I read that to mean progress would cut into the profit margin.

[JanusAscending]

14. Underground power lines are encased in pvc pipe

to protect from the water. Also keep in mind that there are under ocean trunk lines that carry power. We have them in Ct. from our coastline to Long Island (or Staten Island) I forget which. It also crossed my mind when I heard the news today about all the power outages.So much less suffering from ice storms when they occur, I would think it would be worth the cost in the long run.:shrug:

[evlbstrd]

16. New York City learned that lesson over 100 years ago.

In my part of the country, storms take out power lines and require emergency service every year, sometimes from all over the country. It's happening again now. The upfront costs outweigh the emergency costs.

[NJCher]

19. transmission underground is half the cost of above ground

I was told this by an engineer from Switzerland--that it costs twice as much to generate the electricity above ground as it does when electricity is distributed underground.



Cher

[barb162]

20. I live in an area where the utilities are buried and the ground

freezes several feet deep

[MiniMe]

22. I do too. The only problem is the main substations are not underground.

So when they fix the main problem, our lights usually come back on if there is a problem.

[barb162]

23. same here.

Don't you like it that there aren't those utility wires all over the place?