Did you know you can burn down a car dealership on Saturday

[DoYouEverWonder]

and still get on an airplane from DC to LA on Wednesday?

Shows you how much their no fly lists are worth. Pass the toilet paper.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=377391&mesg_id=377391

[crispini]

1. A terrorist is not the same thing as a criminal.

the man was out on bond.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. He was a dangerous man

who had just committed an act of extreme violence.

He was allowed on a plane while peace activists can't get their names off the no fly lists.

[crispini]

4. rapists, ex-cons, and so on, are allowed to fly also.

are you in favor of putting MORE people on the no-fly list? that doesn't sound like such a hot idea to me.

one can be a violent criminal and still have no ties to middle eastern terrorists.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Not while you're out of bond

you are not supposed to leave the state.

[crispini]

8. He may have gotten permission from the court.

We don't know all the facts.

And you are being illogical. The no-fly list is designed to stop terrorists who would like to blow up a plane, not ordinary citizens who are criminals. Complaining that the no-fly list doesn't catch this guy is like complaining that a fork is really bad for eating soup with. If you want to eat soup, use a spoon.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. So someone who tried to blow up a car dealership

and did a pretty good job of burning down should be allowed to travel freely on airplanes while they are out on bond?

[crispini]

14. Actually, yes I do.

This is America, and that man is an American citizen. Last I checked, American citizens were still innocent before proven guilty IN A COURT OF LAW. I am NOT in favor of restricting our rights as Americans to travel any further than they have to be.

You have tried and convicted that man as a dangerous person IN YOUR MIND on no more basis than a couple of paragraphs in the newspaper. You know nothing about the facts in the case. And you are advocating that that man not have been allowed to fly because he was ARRESTED-- not convicted, just ARRESTED.

You are responsible for the same kind of broad brush generalizations that liberals complain about so much when Republicans apply it. If the TSA wants to search more Arab-Americans, people wail and complain because it is prejudicial and call it "targeting" and call it "racist." You are doing the exact same thing to this man without knowing a fraction of the facts in the case.

I'm not saying I know the facts either.

Maybe he was jumping bail, who knows? All I'm saying is that you're advocating YET MORE chipping away of our civil liberties in the name of safety. I'm not for that, at all.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. You don't get it

First of all this man shouldn't have even been released on bond. There was no question that he committed the crime. That it was a violent and premeditated act, with the intent to kill people and destroy property. I've known people who've had to wear ankle bracelets and can't travel for much less serious offenses then this while they await trial.

One problem here is the judge that let him loose. Something is not right here.

[crispini]

17. "Intent to destroy property," obviously.

"Intent to kill people," I don't know.

This guy had no prior offenses that were mentioned in the story, and people who know him say this behaviour is not typical:

But those who know Georgettis were shocked at his apparent act of buyer's rage.
North Miami Beach Mayor Raymond F. Marin was stunned to hear Georgettis, whose duties include managing the city's Jules Littman Performing Arts Theater, could do such a thing.
''He's a nice guy. I didn't know him to be malicious or anything,'' Marin said. ``He's always been nice to me and to people he knows.''

I think what's happening here (and this is my guess) is that this is just some ordinary joe who was having some bizarre kind of personal problem or maybe a drug or psychological problem. That's my guess.

Now, speaking generally, if it's a first offense and you've been an upright citizen up til then, the "system" can and should cut you some slack.

Not immediately consider you "dangerous" and put you on the no-fly list.

Edited to add: And I *do* get it. You're trying to use this case to prove that the no-fly list doesn't work. I disagree that this particular case proves that the no-fly list doesn't work. I'm not speaking to the general point about whether or not the no-fly list works, mind you, but this case in particular proves nothing.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Here's the story

Man Apparently Kills Himself on Plane
February 9, 2006

DENVER -- A man apparently hanged himself in an airplane lavatory during a flight that was diverted to Denver after his body was discovered, police said.

Denver medical examiner's spokeswoman Michelle Weiss-Samaras said an autopsy was planned for the body of Gerald Georgettis, 56, of Miami, which was found Wednesday on a United Airlines flight from Washington, D.C., to Los Angeles.

"Right now, everything leads us to believe the male involved did commit suicide," police Detective Virginia Lopez said. No other passengers were ever in danger, she added.

A man with the same name and age was charged with arson and felony criminal mischief in Miami after a fire caused nearly $1 million in damage at a Ford dealership on Saturday. Weiss-Samaras and Miami-Dade County police could not confirm it was the same man.

The arson suspect was accused of driving his new Ford through the dealership showroom, pouring gasoline on it and lighting it. Police have said he was upset about the price.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-brf-plane-death,0,4643189.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[elehhhhna]

5. You can shoot the wife & baby & head home to Great Britain too.

[crispini]

7. .

posted in wrong place

[Botany]

9. Touchy about no fly lists?

Guaranteed an EDV of the KOEB will be on a no fly list.

I hear the Greyhound to NYC is a good deal.

:rofl:


those will not make it past the screening.

[crispini]

10. They DO seem to search my bags on a pretty regular basis.

:evilgrin:

[Botany]

12. Like the dogs can't smell your "special toys"

Yellow Lab, "I smell EDV."

[zbdent]

11. But dare wear a T-shirt

and your ass is theirs . . .

[madrchsod]

15. eco terrorist?

if he would have done it at night,painted some eco terrorist message,and then got caught he would have never seen the light of day for years.