Do the people of the US deserve freedom?

[dsc]

The Bush wiretapping contraversy isn't a close call. It isn't a case of maybe. A President who has consistently lied about national security (lies about WMD, lies about the cost of the war, lies about our reception in Iraq, lies about oil paying for it, lying about nukes, and on and on) says trust me to warrentlessly spy upon people in the US. This should be a 70 30 proposition. Yet in poll after poll it comes out around 50/50. Franklin was right about the idea that trading safety for liberty makes one unworthy of both.

This should be a no brainer. After all even Bob Barr gets it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Stupid Question, If It Wasn't Just Rhetorical.

As far as the 50/50 split, that's only because there has yet to be any real consistent message given to the american people that the same outcome of tracking the terrorists could've occurred within the law.

As long as the main theme pointed at americans is that it went above the law a little but only for the sake of protecting them, and the message of "that's what I'm supposed to do as president right?" exists, don't expect the split to be better than 50/50.

[dsc]

2. maybe a bit rhetorical but not entirely

Frankly this isn't a close call. Bush constantly lies. Yet on the basis of trust me, people are swooning to support blatent illegal behavior. It is hard to see how our people are deserving of freedom on the basis of Franklin's test.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

3. Well Then I Think It's A Stupid Question, No Offense. And I Still Say The

main reasons for their approval is due to what I posted originally, which you didn't comment on.

[dsc]

9. Any sentient being knows Bush lied about Iraq

No matter how much we want to blame the media here the public has often behaved this way. Look at our behavior in regards to sex offenders. Sorry, but we have to admit that people have become more than complacent about freedom.

[Journeyman]

7. Check back 10, 50, 100 years or more. . .

and you'll invariably find a sizeable portion of the population which, when asked generalized questions about the Bill of Rights, will consistently oppose these rights -- until asked specifically about them. Just because people are stupid doesn't mean they don't "deserve" what other, more intelligent people have fought to ensure for all.

You need to take a longer, wider view of the world and its varied history. Cut people some slack. What's ascribed to Mr Lincoln, and what Thomas Jefferson firmly believed, still holds true -- give people a level field and all the facts and they'll make reasoned decisions. You can't fool all of them all the time.

[JVS]

4. Deserving has very little to do with getting or keeping

[patricia92243]

5. The Republicans have re framed the debate. The word WARRENTLESS has been

left out of the explanation of what has happened. The lack of a warrant is the problem. Most people don't realize that.

If the question was: Do you think it is o.k. for the government to tap people's telephone conversations without a warrant - the answer would be a resounding NO.

[dsc]

14. Honestly I have no idea if they would care

I would like to think they would but frankly I think they wouldn't.

[liberal N proud]

6. Those who give up liberties so easily, do not deserve them

Paraphrased from Ben Franklin.

[enigma000]

8. As opposed to, what, enslavement?

Perhaps a localized nuclear holocaust on the North American continent. The annihilation of all American cities with a population over half-a-million? The survivors could be sold off to China to pay off the national debt.

I'm just trying to follow your logic here........

[dsc]

11. what do we have now?

We have, with about half the people's approval, a President who can tap any phone, at any time, without a warrent. What is that called?

[rucky]

10. I do. If 50% want to restrict their civil liberties...

I say let them go for it. Just leave mine alone.

[Rocknrule]

12. Republicans don't

Obviously they want to live under a dictatorship, so no they don't deserve freedom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Most Americans are willing to sacrifice freedom for "security".

Most Americans have no reason to worry about such notions as "freedom" simply because they seldom choose to exercise it in any meaningful way. As long as they have the "freedom" to shop, watch the superbowl, and be comfortable, they could care less about freedom.