HELL YES we knew; Rep Ron Paul-REPUBLICAN-knew. And said so.

[LynnTheDem]

ANYONE who says they were "duped" and "didn't know" -be they Dem or rightwingnut- are LIARS or IGNORANT.

Them's the only 2 choices.

Congressman Ron Paul
U.S. House of Representatives
September 10, 2002

Spoken on the House floor;

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002.htm

WE KNEW. The world knew. That's why the vast majority of the world said HELL NO.

[leesa]

1. That's right. I remember.

[Hubert Flottz]

2. We tried every way in the world to tell them but they wouldn't hear!

And they called us liars and unpatriotic!

[benburch]

3. I have great respect for Ron Paul. nt

[Radical Activist]

4. Dennis Kucinich knew

and he was called a cook and outside the mainstream for saying so.

[we can do it]

23. Better Than Being Called A Dishwasher?

[johncoby2]

5. He is a rambling idiot

It will be great when Shane Sklar beats the hell out of him.

[LynnTheDem]

6. And the "rambling idiot" was correct.

[AspenRose]

7. I like Ron Paul.

He's a straight shooter and has earned my respect.

[Catrina]

8. Ron Paul also brought Michael Ledeen's book on Fascism to the House

floor, as I remember, which was the first time I had heard about it, in an attempt to educate anyone who was not aware of the ideology of these people, of what their thinking was.

After that, I read a lot about neocon plans for the world. Apparently he was ignored by Congress.

The OP is right. Not one of them can say they were ignorant of the PNAC plans that are now in full force.

Looking back, most of what I learned, I learned from Ron Paul's speeches and Sen. Byrd's.

Ron Paul also gave another really great speech about a year ago on the house floor entitled 'What If We Were Wrong'. It was questioning US policy going back 60 years. He wondered if supporting dictators etc. with the excuse that we were fighting Communism, could be justified, and that it was that policy which led to where we are today ~

[Dr.Phool]

9. Yeah, my asshole Senator is in the paper this morning

Talking about how we were lied into the war.

Now, I'm not a Senator, but I knew better.

Hundreds of thousands at the protests knew better.

Scott Ritter (I'm reading his book now) was scraming to high heaven that the weapons had been destroyed, but no one would listen.

European intelligence agencies knew better.

[wtmusic]

10. "What is the moral argument for attacking a nation

aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?"

That question provides the answer to why this war is unwinnable.

[sam sarrha]

11. what is even better is his essay:.. 'We've been NeoConned..' <LINK>

the first in depth disclosure of what and and who they were.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul110.html

[FatDave]

12. Amazing...

Is this guy actually a good republican? I thought they were extinct. I mean, I'm sure I disagree with him on a lot of things, but he seems to actually be an honest, decent man. What a shame that that's the exception and not the rule in the republican party.

[tblue37]

22. He's a libertarian who runs as a Republican because

that is how one gets elected where he is from.

[WildEyedLiberal]

13. How are threads like this helpful?

Ron Paul is a raving wingnut and everything that comes out of his mouth is suspect. I'll take any Democrat over raving lunatic Ron Paul, thanks. Also, it's beyond annoying when you think that size 48 font makes your point more valid.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Not when it comes to Bush

He knows Bush and the neocons. He was right about Iraq and the Neocon PNAC plan. You should always check things out yourself but when he talks about Bush and the neocons I at least listen to him. Threads like this are helpful because it debunks the bullshit of "oh everybody knew!"

[WildEyedLiberal]

19. Actually it's playing right into the bullshit

But anyway.

[LynnTheDem]

21. Whatever.

:hi:

[Burried News]

27. Keep on keeping on - updated pic for the dart board.

[happydreams]

25. Please cite some examples of Paul's "lunacy".

[happydreams]

26. Ron Paul is a truly decent hard hitting guy.

Why he chooses to be a Repug is a mystery. He opposed the Iraq War and I would vote for him over the likes of LIEberman and other neo-liberal democrats.

[stickdog]

35. I'd take any guy with integrity over the average establishment

politician.

Ron Paul is wrong on a lot of things, but he RIGHT ON when it comes to the way we've all been BUSHWHACKED.

[FreedomAngel82]

14. Just a correction

Paul is a libertanin who runs as a republican to get elected. He does know his Bush stuff though so when he talks about them I do listen.

[WildEyedLiberal]

15. Yes, he's a libertarian

He's voted for plenty of barbaric things like abolishing Meals on Wheels and ending any social programs whatsoever. He doesn't think education should be funded by the government. It never ceases to amuse me when DUers hold him up as some sort of hero just because he disagrees with Bush about imperialism. So myopic...

[IndyOp]

29. Ron Paul disagrees effectively with * about imperialism/militarism...

Those issues are of *huge* importance -- in part, because if we weren't spending our vast wealth on killing/controlling people we would have far more money in Congress to spend on those programs. If we had plenty of money for social programs we could outvote Ron re: Meals on Wheels, social programs, and education.

That's why I listen to him... I quote him because Rethugs are more likely to hear a Rethug than than a Dem...

:shrug:

[stickdog]

36. What's myopic is your putting politics on some sort of number line.

There are many political dimensions.

Currently, one honest and straightforward anti-imperialist libertarian is worth 10,000 war and fear mongering, neoliberal globalists.

[Ksec]

16. Ron Paul is a smart guy

For the life of me I dont know why he votes with Republicans, or considers himself part of that party.

He knew, we knew, the world knew. Only a crackpot partyload of freaks believed the crap they were being forcefed.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. Read post fifteen for your answer

He and two other's in the House (James Duncan and a guy from North Carolina) though did NOT support the ID act on the republican side.

[Marie26]

20. Everyone knew. They were just afraid to say it. nt

[Me.]

24. YEP! eom

[Zhade]

28. K/R

NT!

[Disturbed]

30. IWR Dems who voted NO!

IWR

United States Senate
In the Senate, the 21 Democrats, one Republican and one Independent who courageously voted their consciences in 2002 against the War in Iraq were:

Daniel Akaka (D-Hawaii) Jeff Bingaman (D-New Mexico) Barbara Boxer (D-California) Robert Byrd (D-West Virginia) Lincoln Chaffee (R-Rhode Island) Kent Conrad (D-North Dakota) Jon Corzine (D-New Jersey) Mark Dayton (D-Minnesota) Dick Durbin (D-Illinois) Russ Feingold (D-Wisconsin) Bob Graham (D-Florida) Daniel Inouye (D-Hawaii) Jim Jeffords (I-Vermont) Ted Kennedy (D-Massachusetts) Patrick Leahy (D-Vermont) Carl Levin (D-Michigan) Barbara Mikulski (D-Maryland) Patty Murray (D-Washington) Jack Reed (D-Rhode Island) Paul Sarbanes (D-Maryland) Debbie Stabenow (D-Michigan) The late Paul Wellstone (D-Minnesota) Ron Wyden (D-Oregon)

United States House of Representatives
Six House Republicans and one independent joined 126 Democratic members of the House of Re
Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii) Tom Allen (D-Maine) Joe Baca (D-California) Brian Baird (D-Washington DC) John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine) Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin) Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina) Xavier Becerra (D-California) Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon) David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office) Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania) Corinne Brown (D-Florida) Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California) Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts) Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland) Julia Carson (D-Indiana) William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri) Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office) James Clyburn (D-South Carolina) Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office) John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan) Jerry Costello (D-Illinois) William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office) Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California) Danny Davis (D-Illinois) Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon) Diana DeGette (D-Colorado) Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts) Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut) John Dingell (D-Michigan) Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania) John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
Anna Eshoo (D-California) Lane Evans (D-Illinois) Sam Farr (D-California) Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania) Bob Filner (D-California) Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts) Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas) Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida) Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office) Maurice Hinchey (D-New York) Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas) Rush Holt (D-New Jersey) Mike Honda (D-California) Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon) John Hostettler (R-Indiana) Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office) Jay Inslee (D-Washington)

[Zhade]

32. The honest ones.

NT!

[Buck Rabbit]

31. I didn't know! But it was never important if they did.

The question never should have been did they have some chemical weapons. It should have been do they have the opportunity, ability, and intent to use them.

They didn't threaten to use them against us. Saddam had no reason to use them against us, as it would needlessly jeopardies what he held dearest (his survival and power). He had a history of not using them when he had motive and opportunity to.

Saddam was no threat to the US when he had WMDs, he was still no threat when he didn't have them.

[Disturbed]

33. "Saddam was no threat to the US ."

Why was Iraq invaded?

1) Iraq being cleared of WMD by the UNMOVIC/UNSCOM meant Desert Storm (when Saddam went off the reservation) was over and sanctions had to be lifted.

2) Iraq had European contracts for their oil.

3) Iraq was going to trade the oil in Euros not petrodollars.

"Remember, Bush/Saud are the same thing. BDM/Vinnel (Carlyle at the time) arm, train, equip man what keeps Saud in power. Saudi crude funds the whole Bush/Saud crew. Iraq suddenly free again to sell its oil, and in Euros not only screws Bush/Saud, but would cripple the US economy along multiple fracture lines.

First and obviously, having the 2nd largest oil reserve of accessible crude come onto the market will drive the value of Saudi crude into the basement. That Iraq would end run the rest of OPEC to make up for a decade of being starved would scatter the cartel members into the winds to fend for themselves. So what is better, to let Iraq crude take out your own operation at the knees or take it over and roll it into the same portfolio.

Second, because Iraq was gonna devalue your own assets in the first place, doing so outside our traditional partner firms and with European (French, Russian, German) firms visions of Chinnese orders means you are not getting a swing at that crude even in the rest of the chain.

Third, and most critical (and actually more "forgivable" in a strange circumpolar way) is that trading in Euros not petrodollars collapse our capital market funding of our debt and deficits, both Governmental budget and general economic. If China (as its demand for oil goes through the roof in the next 10 years) starts trading with Iraq, and the Euro becomes the currency for oil (not to mention it is already on the edge of surpassing the dollar for capital markets anyway base don value as it is) suddenly China has no need to continue to buy our debt. It would get more of a return in Euros, plus it buys oil form Iraq in Euros."

Christian Parenti

[eridani]

34. I'd say Ron Paul, the Libertarian

Instead of being a perennial professional Libertarian presidential candidate, he ran on a major party ticket to get elected. He'll never be president, but at least he can vote against a lot of stupid things.

[threadkillaz]

37. 35. Why don't those who want war...

...bring a formal declaration of war resolution to the floor of Congress?

Because THEY decided to declare through the corpmedia a neverending war on a NOUN.

And the only way to WIN this little War on TERROR, is to remove the word "Terror" from the dictionary.

What's next? Are we going to declare a War on Scary??