We are winning! Keep up the good fight! BUSHCO is going down...

[oscarguy]

I know many feel the same as I do ,but I also read many postings with a defeatist attitude. Now is not the time to quit. WE HAVE THE BASTARDS ON THE RUN , MOVE IN FOR THE KILL GOD-DAMN IT. MOVE IN AND FINISH THEM OFF BEFORE THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REGROUP. THIS IS BASIC WARFARE TYPE OF LOGIC AND IT WORKS,THAT IS WHY IT IS BASIC. Pull no punches, go for the jugular, etc.. We Democrats had damn sure better take this opportunity to strike now.RIDE,RIDE NOW. ...Oscar

[Der Blaue Engel]

1. I go from hopeful to defeated quite frequently these days

Some days it's just so hard to believe anything will ever turn the tide, when so many outrageous crimes against democracy and humanity are committed in front of our eyes every day, and people just shrug.

Sometimes I want to crawl into a hole and not come out. But there are better days as well. I think a lot of us go through this.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. I know you feel

It gets very frustrating.

[oscarguy]

7. Not today my friend,today we fight!There may come a day when all is lost

BUT IT IS NOT THIS DAY! TODAY WE FIGHT! ...Oscar P.S. I am paraphrasing Tolkien < cannot take credit for these words as original to myself >. .....Oscar

[Jackpine Radical]

87. Some DAYS?? You get whole DAYS up or down?

Personally, my manic depressive cycle seems to run about 18.5 minutes peak to trough.

[senseandsensibility]

2. Good attitude

And may it spread to our "leaders" in the Democratic Party.

[FatDave]

16. And therein lies the challenge (nt)

[Erika]

3. What are you talking about?

We are Americans before we are partisans.

[oscarguy]

4. We are Democrats and our Nation`s last Hope. We have these...

bastards on the run on do not let up or our alternative may very well be that of partisans or total and utter submission. ...Oscar

[Erika]

6. Sorry, I won't do war with fellow Americans

regardless of partisanship. I'm not a dittohead, etc.

[oscarguy]

9. The GOP is with us, I am not suggesting going to war with fellow...

Americans. I am saying now is the time to bring down BUSHCO, AS WE DID NIXON. ...Oscar

[Raksha]

37. Well I WILL do war with fellow Americans...

because to be a real American these days is to be a PARTISAN Democrat! Those others are NOT real Americans no matter how much they hide behind the flag.

[oscarguy]

46. What can I say? Ere the Sun Rises ! Get Back! I will fight with you..

friend,warrior,comrade. ...Oscar

[Canuckistanian]

86. The war is being brought to you

How you decide to respond is up to you, but this is not a question of progressives/liberals picking a fight.

[kentuck]

8. Unfortunately, he's taking the country with him...

Nothing to rejoice about.

[RockHardCore]

10. 2006 & 2008

What is the plan for the elections? What can we do leading up to them?

[pauldp]

11. Support massive election reform to make sure our votes count.

HR 550 specifically.

Welcome to DU RockHardCore:hi:

[RockHardCore]

13. HR 550?

But the thing is HR 550 doesn't fit well on a bumper sticker and the public doesn't want to believe there is rampant voter fraud, NO MATTER WHAT.

It just doesn't seem like we have the right team in place to take on the ruthless GOP.

[pauldp]

17. OK here's a bumper sticker for ya.

[RockHardCore]

19. As funny as that is...

The Dems/Libs seem to be so far off message. Would that attract voters? I guess I take everything too seriously - sorry

[12string]

44. funny?

do some reading,try My Epiphany,by Paul Craig Roberts for starters,then see if you still see humor in it.

[newyawker99]

82. Hi 12string!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[FatDave]

24. Bumper sticker: "Republicans Lie"

Simple, and everybody knows it's true, even if they won't admit it.

[oscarguy]

14. Right Rocky,We have to ensure the votes get counted We Won the...

last two presidential elections. The election count is another very important front this battle is being waged on.

[RockHardCore]

15. But honestly...

Isn't that fight over? And we clearly got robbed, but its politically difficult to go back and re-fight it (maybe in the history books).

How can we change the tone of the media, change people's hearts to our causes?

[FatDave]

22. They can't fudge a landslide

All about turnout. If the election was today, you'd have dems out in full force and repugs sitting it out. If we can maintain the current attitude for 8 months, all's well. What would be nice is if in september/october we really start seeing the fallout from Abramoff.

[oscarguy]

49. They cannot fudge a landslide. Maybe that is what it will takeN/T

[RockHardCore]

51. Obviously...

I have a lot work to do. Do you think we are going to win elections on freakin' Jack Abramoff? The spin is already in that he is attached to Dems as well - even if it isn't true. Most Americans think that what he did is normal or not a big deal. Its totally a dog bites man story - guess what America politicians can be corrupt!

Also, with GOP, do you think they would let themselves be in this position close to an election? NO!

We need a positive message about the Democrat party, not a they suck message.

[FatDave]

57. Abramoff, "they suck", etc.

Well, I don't think we're going to win on Abramoff alone. But it's not going to hurt.

Yes, they're trying to say that dems took Abramoff money too. They can say all they want, but eventually indictments will start coming in. When that happens, the writing will be pretty much on the wall.

The only way we can win (and I think you get this too) is through turnout. Good democratic turnout, poor republican turnout. As I said in another thread, if the election were held today we'd see a democratic landslide. We're energized, they're pissed at their own leaders. Can we maintain that for 8 more months? Who knows? I have no doubt Bush will continue to fuck up, it's the only thing he does well. Will his fuckups hurt congressional republicans? I sure hope so.

And as far as a "they suck" message goes, have you ever noticed the messages the republicans go with? Sadly, that works. Frankly, I think the reason democrats sometimes suffer in campaigns is this "we're not going to sink to their level" mentality. Well screw that. A good chunk of the populace is either too stupid to notice or just doesn't care about ethics. I say give 'em hell, fight fire with fire and all that. Sure, we need a positive message too, but we've already got that (http://www.dnc.org/agenda.html). We need to stand and fight.

[electropop]

84. We won't maintain this attitude for 8 months...

because Bushitler is committing bigger and bigger crimes every day. It won't be a landslide; it'll be Mount Saint Helens. They really seem to trying to get the masses out in the streets with pitchforks and torches. I hope it doesn't come to that, because that'd be a great excuse to bring out the tanks and mow down the opposition.

Either Bush has some nefarious plan that's even bigger than I can imagine, or the ports issue is finally incontrovertible proof that he is completely insane. SPend 5 years whipping us into xenophobic anti-Arab frenzy, then sell the ports to Al Qaeda? Seriously delusional.

[marions ghost]

79. we need a positive message (duh)

but we also need a "they suck" message :puke: .... that part's not hard these days :)...

[oscarguy]

18. Keep harping on the theme that Bush is a traitor,Selling out USA

for financial gain or whatever. Do what the GOP would do if a Democrat had endorsed such an outrageous DEAL. The Republicans are with us on this one. They have to be to have any hope of retaining thier respective seats. The entire Country is rip shit about this! ...Osacr

[RockHardCore]

20. Maybe...

But does it play through to 2006 or 2008? What if their candidate in 08 was against the port deal, then this is just a bunch of wasted energy. Besides President Carter is for the deal, so I don't know what to think anyway.

[oscarguy]

28. Carter is wrong about this . He supported Jihadis Re:Afganistan...

when the Russians were there. I will never forget Brzezinski`s smirking face as he said this is the USSR`s Viet Nam. ....Oscar

[Erika]

23. No thanks

I don't wish to battle fellow Americans. You need to go over to some other site. Thanks.

[reDEMption]

77. The minute I read your post...

...I felt better; you're one of the few here that doesn't seem to have REVENGE foremost in your mind. You didn't try and force anyone to think exactly the way you do. You didn't write catty little posts--'they sure crawled out of the woodwork tonite', 'yeppers, it doesn't take long to spot 'em!', 'my thoughts exactly!' etc.--fashioned to make it SEEM like you're not hollering 'FREEPER!'--while doing exactly that. You didn't post with an 'I'm-mad-kick-the-dog' type attitude.

In short, you sound like someone people could really listen to....thanks!:toast: :hi: :yourock:

[EVDebs]

90. Chalabi was an Iranian spy ferchrissake's !

Dig up DIA's Patrick Lang on how the Iranian intelligence used this goombah. Why the MSM won't discuss...that's something maybe Helen Thomas can address at a Presidential newsconference sometime.

[oscarguy]

12. BUSHCO is not taking the country with him. Have you not read any...

of what the GOP has had to say about all this , or were you refering to me . I am confused. ...Oscar

[iconoclastNYC]

21. Way to accentuate the positive. We all need a pep rally now and then.

Everything is not gloom and doom. The rise of the Internet means the people have more power than we've had in decades.

[RockHardCore]

25. Yeah but...

I feel like we are getting our ass kicked on the internet too. CNN admits that it makes its web news more right-wing. Howard Dean dominated internet fundraising in 2003 and where did it get him?

[iconoclastNYC]

26. CNN is crap and we all know that.

And progress is still being made. MOVE ON is a huge deal. DFA is another big deal. PDA is another big deal. Democratic Underground didn't exist 5? years ago. DailyKos has more readers then a midmarket newspaper. This is huge progress.

[FatDave]

27. Where did it get him?

Fucked in Iowa and New Hampshire? Personally, I think our primary system is screwing us. The early primary states have way too much power. If a candidate wins IA and NH, it's pretty much a done deal. Who the fuck are they to choose the nominees?

[iconoclastNYC]

29. You are spot on.

The primary is fucked and it's the DLC types who are in favor of keeping it the way it is (Aided and abetted by selfish NH and IOWA)

[RockHardCore]

30. There y'all go again...

This stuff may or may not be true - but the voting public DOESN'T CARE!!! We need to focus on issues that Joe Average will perk up and say, "Hey. I really like that. I'm going to vote for him/her."

[iconoclastNYC]

31. I'm not talking to the voting public

I'm talking to DUers but thanks for your 2 cents.

[RockHardCore]

33. But...

What we say among ourselves resonates as our image to the public. And we look like a bunch of nuts b/c of how the GOP media spins it. Sometimes I think we care too much about the truth - we need to just win baby!

[iconoclastNYC]

34. Bullshit.

Nothing I said is nutty.

[RockHardCore]

35. But it gets spun as nutty...

We load their gun for them? I think we need a new message, a positive message on ground where we are innovative and realistic. Everyone knows we think BushCo sucks, lets move on.

[iconoclastNYC]

39. Who's spinning anything I wrote?

Seriously. If I was plotting the DNC's national communciation strategy your critcisism would be valid.

[Sugar Smack]

88. Take a look at this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=490597&mesg_id=490597

and tell me what you think.

[oscarguy]

32. A sword day, a red day ! Ere the sun Rises! Ride, ride now. Riders of...

Democrats.Ride for VICTORY! I`M PARAPHRSING TOLKIEN, LORD OF THE RINGS AND ALL THAT. GEE WHIZ his words do resonate

[Raksha]

42. Another Tolkien fan here.

Ride now, ride now, RIDE TO GONDOR!!!

[Raksha]

36. I want to be hopeful...I really do. And I try to be hopeful.

But what frightens and depresses me more than anything is the seemingly uncanny ability of the "official" Democratic party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm just not sure any more they WANT to win. They never seem to go on the offensive and stay on the offensive when it matters.

Yes, we COULD easily move in for the kill, but what will actually happen in a few months, come election time? I am so afraid of another wimp-out on a national scale.

[RockHardCore]

38. I disagree

We move in for the kill on the wrong things. We need to move in on issues, not "Bush sucks". I think the party is severly mismanaged from the core base to the leadership. We need a positive Kennedy/Clinton type figure.

You remember, the GOP never won anything when all they did was try to make Clinton look bad (92, 96, 98), but when they were positive and upbeat they won, but only barely (minus 04 of course). When the party out of power whines and bitches all the time its easy to make them look petty.

[Raksha]

40. You left out '94...

...the year of the infamous Gingrich "Contract on America," when they took control of Congress for the first time in 40 years. The freepers I try to debate with on another forum are STILL gloating about that, their big moment of glory.

From what I've seen, whining and bitching work great for the Republicans. Hell, they even do it when they WIN!

[RockHardCore]

43. I disagree

Sorry I meant to say minus 94. And I think you have the totally wrong perspective oh how they win elections and how we should win elections. Nobody wants to hear the Dems just bitch about stuff Bush has done, they want to hear what we are going to do - healthcare, education, taxes, diplomatic relationships, environment, etc...

[oscarguy]

41. You are right,BUT we did bring down NIXON. Sometimes we do...

succeed. I do believe the opportunity is there now, let us both hope we do not screw it up. ...Oscar

[RockHardCore]

45. even if we could bring down Bush

Lets say we win in 06, impeach Bush. Great, President Cheney! - also the country just doesn't like impeachment proceedings no matter what.

I think we need to let Bush go, he is never running for office again anyway!

[magellan]

47. Let Bush** go?

My friend, Bush** will never be "let go". The Dems have already informed him that proper investigations will be carried out one day into his handling of various matters, even if 'one day' means after he's out of office.

[RockHardCore]

48. And that...

is going to get our asses kicked in elections. It's not worth it!

[Raksha]

50. It's starting to smell funny around here.

Anyone else notice it?

[oscarguy]

55. Can you be more clear, I will Respond. Oscar N/T

[oscarguy]

70. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you not the person who something ...

to the effect that you were willing to fight fellow Americans and I stupidly agreed with you ? If I am correct, what is your game? If I am wrong I apologize. I am going to go back and see . Oscar

[Raksha]

71. You weren't wrong to agree with me. And I'm not playing a game

but I think someone else is. Please check your PMs...I tried to explain.

[oscarguy]

73. Dear Raksha, a misunderstanding on my part. Please forgive me..

I in no way desire to offend you. You seem a very gutsy person and I respect and admire you for that. We are friends. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. ...Oscar

[oscarguy]

72. Dear Raksha,what smells funny to you ? I thouhgt we were in agreement...

on my posting. What is it I said that made you smell something funny? If it was refering to you as a comrade, that is what us Veterans of Foriegn Wars refer to each other as. I cannot imagine what else it is that may smell funny to you. Please explain. ...Oscar

[Raksha]

74. I was NOT referring to you or anything in the OP!!!

I mistakenly addressed my remark *TO* the person who had aroused my suspicions, and that's what caused the confusion.

[Raksha]

76. Please check your private messages.

I tried to explain what I meant by that remark...I really did! Don't worry, NOTHING you've said in this thread offended me.

[magellan]

52. Holding Bush** accountable isn't worth it?

I can't even reply to your statement it's so namby-pamby. Let a criminal off the hook so the Dems can win elections. Right.

But I will say you have mighty high hopes for those elections when it's been made abundantly clear that the machines are owned by the GOP. You may not like hearing that, either, but tough -- it's time Americans woke up and started paying attention to the disgrace the government has become through their ignorance and unfounded trust. WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT.

No one ever said having a great democracy would be easy. It demands attention. Start paying attention.

[RockHardCore]

54. Its like...

when you are playing basketball and the refs just have it out for you. You have to just accept it and play to such a degree that the refs don't matter. Sure we need landslides especially in OH and FL. But I think prosecuting Bush will hold us down and ultimately democracy will turnaround a lot faster the sooner we get our country back in Congress and the White House. I don't want to risk what happened to the reps in 96 and 98 when they thought they could beat on Clinton.

[magellan]

58. This isn't a GAME

Whether or not to prosecute a corrupt administration isn't meant to be a decision based on popularity or votes. It's a matter of the LAW, and Constitutional Law at that. You remember the Constitution, don't you? Just because the Republicans adhere to it only when it benefits them and are busy ignoring or finding loopholes in it the rest of the time doesn't make its contents OPTIONAL.

Too bad for the Republicans, there are plenty of Dems who still respect the Constitution.

[RockHardCore]

59. I'm not sure...

the case is even there, or that it would work. Then we will get our face shoved in the mud for the next 20 years. Yes, I do remember the Constitution - thanks.

[magellan]

64. If you're not sure the case is even there to impeach Bush**

...then you're in need of some serious education on the subject. Impeachment proceedings could easily have been started several times over by now, simply based on the lies he's told, if it weren't for the Republican majority in Congress.

You're in a good place to learn here. Look around, and welcome. I genuinely hope your stay lasts.

[RockHardCore]

66. Start Helping Then

I feel like I watch stuff pretty closely and I read stuff that is all over the spectrum - I try to stay open minded and know the enemy.

It seems like Bush has pretty good cover for the things he has said and done - at least enough to protect him from impeachment.

Is there anything professionally written that I can read on this?

[magellan]

69. What's your definition of "professionally written"?

Sy Hersch and Greg Palast are well-established journalists but some don't consider them professional. Many ex-Bush** administration and military personnel have written books and articles but some don't consider them professional.

If you want a start on suggested reading material then look in the non-fiction book forum. You can also scrounge around the Research forum.

The most important thing I can offer is to remain open-minded as you say you are, question everything, and do the research before coming to any conclusions. Unfortunately that's what it takes to get anywhere near the truth about this administration.

[neweurope]

53. ...ride to ruin and the world's ending...

I'm deeply pessimistic.

Still - you certainly are right.

--------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[oscarguy]

56. A seemingly hopeles situation when people with courage won the day!

We have good reason to have hope. We have to bring these bastards down ...Oscar

[neweurope]

67. Yes, you are right *smiles*

It's just that I don't put too much trust in the Dems.

-----------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[oscarguy]

68. I am sorry but your reference eludes me. "remember Fulluga" ?

I know there have been military actions there but what is different as to all the other actions. ...Oscar

[neweurope]

85. Not "Fulluga", but "Fallujah". Look: (graphic)

These are NOT the worst pictures by far.

-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[oscarguy]

75. Good morning to all, I have to go about my day,ergo leave forum.

I appreciate your interest in my posting. ...Oscar

[oscarguy]

60. Re:BUSHCO- BRING IT DOWN,BRING IT DOWN,BRING IT DOWN...

If not now when ? They are as weak as they will ever be . All the bigtime GOP`s are against him/them on this one. Regimes live or die at times like this. WE have to keep on it alive with every thing we can . He/They are going down over this one, stay on it and do not let up. He is a traitor ,willing to sell out our Nation`s National Security for fun and profit as did his namesake George Walker. This is the issue that will bring them down.The Republicans know it, stay on it. ...Oscar

[RockHardCore]

61. It's not the issue!

Avg. american won't remember this by election time. A lot of repubs are against it, so that balances it out and Carter, one of our leaders, is for it! That makes it hard too.

"They screwed up" isn't a winning message/

[oscarguy]

62. Carter supported Jihadis vs USSR. On this issue who cares what...

he has to say,no-one.He is not a player in ths one. ..Oscar

[RockHardCore]

63. Not a player?

He is a Nobel Prize winner and former President, he is ALWAYS a player!

[oscarguy]

65. Sorry, Carter screwed up when he supported Jihadis vs USSR...

AND it was his wimpy image that brought him down. This is American politics , not the Nobel Comittee. Get real, the rest of the Country is. Carter made a big mistake when he gave military support to these Jihadis and that is the way it is. ...Oscar

[OzarkDem]

78. Send the message to Dems in Congress

We need to remind them to crawl out from under their desks and fight.

[Independent_Liberal]

80. Hell yeah! I like that attitude!

You're right, let's keep it up.

:)

[KansDem]

81. Kick and punch them until they're down...!!!

...then keep on kicking and punching them until they've breathed their last!!!

Don't let up...!!! Keep kicking until the stench of death stings your noses!

No more "Lee Hamiltons" this time! :grr:

edited to tone down rhetoric

[Imagevision]

83. Bush/Rove are now eyeing the November elections and what must be done

in order to keep the country running GOP style. Plus, Rove needs to take away the spotlight from investigations/scandals in Washington -- This Iraq war is turning out to be extremely useful to Bush, first it was only the oil -- now he'susing it to play the War-prez game again. and just when there was "talk" about bringing some 3-4 toured US. troops home? -- nice jesture but we won't see that in 06.

[EVDebs]

89. The Fear Spigot can't be turned on/off continuously without damage

to credibility. Already Bush is less popular than Nixon during Watergate
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/08/22/bush-nixon/

and I'm hearing that he's lower in the polls than Clinton during Monicagate/Impeachment. The bigger they are...