Question to the 50+ members: Did it ever get this bad under Nixon?

[Up2Late]

I was only 11 years old when Nixon left office, and was being "educated" in the Indiana Public Schools, so it's hard for me to judge, but did it ever get as bad under Nixon as is it has gotten now under the Bush Cabal?

[SharonAnn]

1. No, it wasn't this bad, but it was bad. Price controls, Vietnam, and

then Watergate. That was really frightening.

[Virginian]

56. WIN buttons.

Whip Inflation Now -- Your mention of price controls reminded me of them.

Nixon was a smart man, not a greedy man. He wanted the presidency and worked hard to attain it, he didn't think it was his royal entitlement.

Looking at it in hindsight, I wonder if the Neo-cons talked him into resigning so that they could get a foothold on the Republican party and on the presidency. Nixon had already been elected twice. Incumbents are re-elected unless they mess up. A republican would be the incumbent again in '76 if Nixon resigned and therefore, they would have a continuation of the republican presidency. It was logical, but the neo-cons didn't take into consideration that Nixon had already soured the voters and the pardon of Nixon would be Ford's mess up.

I expected Carter to be the beginning of a generation of Dems in the WH because Nixon had messed up so badly.

I couldn't say then, whether the pardon was a good thing or a bad thing, but it does look like the beginning of a long line of Republican crimes that went un-investigated, untried and unpunished. I want to know more about Iran/Contra. I want to know how it tied into the October Surprise of 1980.

At the time, I didn't think the Ford presidency was so bad, but now, when I look back and see that Cheney and Rummy along with other lesser known neo-cons, got their start then, I realize that was the beginning of a very bad time for our nation and for the world.

[JHB]

81. At that point the (proto)neocons were still as much Dem as Republican...

...and they (the congressional "hawks", of both parties) were more likely to back him than get him to resign. What they really did was take advantage of the power vaccum left in the Republican party in his wake.

But one thing they learned from Watergate and other post-Nixon esposees of abused power was to hide it better, and to create a media environment more to their liking and treat their view as the norm.

[graywarrior]

2. Yes, but we weren't so "afraid" back then.

Nixon had his enemies list, but it didn't seem as sinister as this administration. If was great watching them all get taken down. Feels like it's heading that way again.

[Neil Lisst]

20. Nixon was never as evil as Bush

And he certainly didn't think he was some kind of messiah.

[still_one]

3. Don't get me wrong, Nixon did some very serious things

but when push came to shove in the end Nixon admitted he was wrong

In addition, internationally Nixon was a genius. He opened relations with China, he created the EPA, he pushed for more fuel efficient cars, and alternative energies. He still had the best interest of the country at heart. bush and company only have their corporate interests at heart.

[serryjw]

14. I agree with you

He was paranoid and misguided BUT he did have the best interest of Americans at heart. Bushit & Co care about nothing more than their rich buddies whom will donate to the the next campaign

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Yes you are right

I had never thought of it that way before. Nixon did seem more interested in actually helping the country than in serving corporate interests, like el pretzeldente.

[Sal Minella]

37. He was also the first one to present the idea of a reverse income tax --

I mean, that very poor people would be guaranteed a livable income, not that very poor people would be TAXED to give money to the rich.....

[American liberal]

51. very good distinction. Thanks!

[oasis]

4. The media was "fair and balanced" back in those days. eom

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Amen - man I get sick when I see what has happened to Bob Woodward.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. Bob Woodward hasn't changed....once ONI, always ONI....

ONI = Office of Naval Intelligence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. Well we sure could depend on him to expose Nixon

I seriously doubt he will do the same for *.

[mike_c]

5. no-- I'd take Nixon in exchange for the neocons ANYDAY....

eom

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. Me too

[July]

95. Me three.

I almost miss that bastard.

[leftstreet]

6. The whole country was talking about Vietnam, Watergate, etc.

Pffft.
Today's corporate media won't even cover Iraq or the illegal spying.

Nothing to see here.
Go back to shopping.

In that respect, it feels much worse.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. My mom never took her vacation time from work until

The Watergate hearings were televised. She took off the entire summer and stayed in front of the TV watching those hearings. And every night at dinner, that is what we talked about.

[antonialee839]

62. My mom was glued to the set also. She actually took

notes, and not too long ago gave them to me. She cannot remember a president more awful than Chucklenuts.

[July]

96. Yep, war on the teeveee every night. nt

[annabanana]

7. Nixon, as bad as he was..

and as paranoid as he became, really believed he was doing what was best for America. I do not think that B*sh cares, one way or another.

[datadiva]

8. Heck no

It was never this bad.

[tom_paine]

9. It is my opinion that the worst crimes of Watergate, wouldn't even fill

a chapter in the massive volume of corruption, criminality and fraud that is the Bushevik Imperium.

(disclaimer: I am not over 50)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

53. We've only...

...seen the very tip of the iceberg where BushCo's crimes are concerned. We won't know the full story for years.

[radio4progressives]

57. John Dean said 3 Years Ago, this was Much WORSE than Watergate

and wrote a book about it... i think it's called

"Worse Than Watergate". ;)

[Catchawave]

92. Here's a chapter excerpt from that book:

http://www.twbookmark.com/books/15/031600023X/chapter_excerpt18541.html

[morningglory]

10. No, but we did NOT have the internets, so we scrambled home from work

every day with 'bated breath, tongue hanging out, and snatched the paper open and there, by gawd, someone would be fired, jailed,confessing publicly, or paying for their crimes in sundry ways. It was gratifying to see people held accountable. The press did their jobs.

[morningglory]

11. Oh, yeah! the campus police shot student(s) during a peaceful campus war

protest.That was the end of the repug's for a long time.

[mtowngman]

12. I was a junior in high school during watergate

I don't remember Nixon being so hated by so many.

[NYC]

13. We still had politicians who represented us, and journalists who

exposed the truth.

That is a major difference. Now, it seems everything is slanted against us.

[jwirr]

15. I think the difference is in the fear factor and the danger of

losing our entire nation to the repugs and corporations. Then it was more of an equal fight. We need to remember that some of these guys in there now did their practicing for today under Nixon/reggie. They had not learned how to steal as much then.

[tsuki]

16. It was like this under McCarthy. During Nixon, we had a press.

[AndyTiedye]

55. Joe McCarthy Happened the Last Time We Had All-Rethug Fed Government

But it only lasted 2 years, and then the Democrats retook Congress.

This time they have been in power for over 5 years, with no end in sight.

[Liberty Belle]

17. No. Nixon abused power, but Congress held him responsible and didn't

give away powers to let Nixon become a dictator.

[Neil Lisst]

18. Bush is a whole nuther things beyond Nixon.

Nixon was smart. Nixon knew history. Nixon understood and respected the limits of the presidency, even as he abused them. Nixon understood the balance of power and the rule of democracy.

Nixon was dastardly in a lot of way, but he was lightyears smarter and better than Bush.

[Melissa G]

35. What Neil said....n/t

[EFerrari]

66. Nixon also wasn't an insider.

Junior is the navel lint of the BFEE. Nixon was much more isolated. He didn't have a whole apparatus around him to develop his criminality.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. No not even close

We had a war but the antiwar movement was motivated by the draft. So we had tons of opposition.

And Nixon wasn't a total fuckup. He was a despicably dishonest man but a brilliant statesman. He actually managed to accomplish a few important things while fighting us who opposed him.

[Glorfindel]

25. No! The difference? Democrats with spine and a free press...

now the press is the lapdog of the Repukes, and the Democrats cower in
fear. I can't understand it at all, but I hope it's not too late to retake our country.

[Journeyman]

26. Richard Nixon took us to the brink of a nuclear conflict . . .

with the Soviet Union over developments in the Middle East. October, 1973. Height of the October War, in the midst of the Sinai tank battle. I was in Minot and so saw first hand the rush to war. The crisis quickly ebbed; we'd learn later he was drunk. What distinguishes it for me was how little those who weren't in it knew about what transpired. It solidified, to my mind, the knowledge that in the nuclear age the difference between the front line and the home front is simply a matter of perception. Have the Bushistas taken us so far towards annihilation? Hard to say here from the home front.

Politically. Socially. Constitutionally. BushCo has the Nixonites checked and mated, but largely because the people have allowed it. Are we on the "Eve of Destruction"? Depends on what the people do.

[Jack Rabbit]

27. This is quite a bit worse than Nixon

In 1973, Deomocrats controlled Congress and had some spine; the White House couldn't tell the press what to say.

[troubleinwinter]

28. No.

When his crimes became apparent to all, people were shocked and disgusted.

Today, people seem to just go merrily along as if crimes and cheating is meaningless and expected. Parr for the course. Whatever. Go along til something 'important' is revealed. No crime seems big enough, scandalous enough or shocking enough today.

Back THEN, knowing your president was a criminal was horrific enough that he was forced to resign in shame. Today, it is taken for granted and chimp just commissions new Disney-style backdrops.

Answer, I guess, to your question is that people were so shocked and outraged that the public opinion was electric enough to force him out. Today is much worse, in that the crimes are worse and nobody seems to give a shit enough to force them out.

This is much worse.

[July]

98. Good point. It's sad how low we've sunk, isn't it? nt

[JohnnyLib]

29. Nixon

The anti war movement exploded under Johnson, a Democrat, then encouraged skepticism of Nixon. So, the country was greatly polarized but not so much along party lines. I see the current administration as far more dangerous and manipulative.

[JohnnyLib]

30. poll

Oops, that was a NO vote

[July]

99. I do see some similarity in the polarization among us regular folks.

I remember well the "love it or leave it" crowd, parents and children at odds over the war, construction workers vs. "hippies," etc. The difference today is that the nutty side is organized.

[norml]

31. The seeds of this were in that and so on before, but to be brief, no.

By the way, I'm 48, and I remember the Nix very well.

[ContraBass Black]

32. Wow, that's a pretty damning poll result.

[NastyRiffraff]

34. One word: PNAC

Rather, four initials.

Nixon was a paranoid, bigoted, shifty man. But that was the extent of it. I'm definitely not a Nixon apologist...I remember those days too well. But he and his administration have NOTHING on BushCo for pure corruption, extreme secrecy, the messiah complex, and lying to the country. Lying about WMDs to get his pet war and the NSA spying alone trumps the DNC break-in and the coverup.

And unlike Chimpy, Nixon knew how to handle foreign policy. At least he didn't embarrass the nation every time he met a foreign leader!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. Nixon was amoral but unlike Bush, intelligent, and therefore

capable of mingling with world leaders without insulting the people of the countries he visited.

Also, we were still living in the wake of the 1960s reforms. The Great Society had not been dismantled.

[eallen]

38. Nixon was worse than Bush, but GOP 2006 is worse than GOP 1973.

The GOP in 1973 was not nearly so unified and cultish as it is today. At the height of Watergate, a small group of GOP Congressmen, led by Goldwater, told Nixon it was time for him to step down, or face impeachment. Today, it is hard to imagine leading Republicans doing the same with Bush.

[mikehiggins]

46. Nixon wasn't as bad as Bush because Nixon was much smarter

Nixon at his worst was better than Bush at his best. If Dick had the advantage of a complacent public and a complicit media and Vichy Democrats then he might have gotten away with what he tried, but things were as they were.

But, could you imagine Bush resigning? He's already ADMITTED to breaking the law and defied Congress and the Courts to do anything about it. On his worst day Nixon wouldn't have dared do something like that, and he most certainly wouldn't have gotten away with it if he did.

[eallen]

103. Nixon resigned only because he had no choice. For reason I explained.

If Nixon had had the GOP united behind him, in control of both Congress and the courts, he might be president still.

:hippie:

[Redstone]

39. In the end, Nixon, twisted bastard that he was, put his country before

himself. He had that last shred of patriotism and decency, no matter how defective he was as a human being.

bushyboy and them do not. This is MUCH worse.

Redstone

[July]

101. That is how I see it.

Bush and gang DO NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE NATION. Their "patriotism" is a disgusting front for their organized criminal enterprises.

[mcscajun]

41. No. We had an engaged electorate, a representative Congress,

and an activist press. Together, they brought Nixon down. We've got very little of that now, unfortunately.

Nixon at least thought he was doing what was right for the country, and when it all came apart, he resigned for the good of the country.

Nothing I can imagine would cause Bush to lose a night's sleep over what he's done and IS doing to the country, much less cause him to resign for the good of the U.S.

His administration came crashing down shortly after his re-election, Nixon's resignation occurred just eighteen months after his second inauguration; Chimpy's "second act" is going much, much differently...many more scandals, far less impact. I'm not counting on a summer resignation this year.

Ugh.

[Warpy]

42. As horrible as Nixon's abuses were, he still cared about the

country. Yes, he was paranoid and spun into madness, seeing enemies of the state in every crowd. However, he didn't make enemies around the world, he didn't dismantle social programs, he didn't attack social security, and he didn't give away the whole country to the multinational corporations.

I would take a Nixon in a heartbeat over the scum in the White House now.

[American liberal]

54. What a terrible thought: "I would take a Nixon in a heartbeat over

the scum in the White House now."

[July]

102. It is a terrible thought, and yet if it were possible, I'd go for it.

Going on what we know of Nixon, I'd have to say it would be an improvement.

[no_hypocrisy]

43. Nixon was stopped before god-knows-what-else he could do.

I still can't get over how he allowed the National Guard to shoot at students at Kent State. Students! It was a message to other dissenters against the war.

But no, to answer your question, he wasn't even close to this corrupt administration.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

44. Nixon was not half the criminal this Bushit is nt

[Bullwinkle925]

45. NO - and I'm surprised that I would ever say that.

There was a much freer press then - or at least a much more responsible one than the milquetoast quacks we have now.
There was a feeling that goodness would prevail and did.
Now - who knows?
I find it fitting that Sandra Day O'Connor has recently made a speech that alluded to this country being on the verge of a dictatorship - or something close to those lines.
Hopefully more people will begin to speak out.

[dragonlady]

47. No, at least it doesn't feel that way

It was a constitutional crisis, and the Vietnam War was bad, but now it seems like the whole American way of life is falling apart.

[Montauk6]

48. The thing about Nixon...

As ornery as he could be, in a way, at least he grew up poor, so he had some kinda grasp on what it was like to struggle, unlike Ol' Silver-Spoon-Up-His-Nose.

[TreasonousBastard]

49. Nixon and Shrub are different kinds of scum...

Nixon understood what the job was even though he was a paranoid, sniveling little crook. He seems to have tried to do the job, and avoided selling the country down the tubes.

He gave us a voting rights act, the EPA, opened China, and maybe a few other things. He was working on national health care, too, but by then he was too far gone to get anything accomplished.

Shrub dosn't have one single accomplishment in his entire Presidency to claim. Jeebus, even Harding did better than this one!

We may have despised Nixon, but back then we always knew things would get better some day. I think we've lost that dream. And that's the worst thing Shrub has done-- taken away our dreams and our futures.

[Divernan]

50. We THOUGHT it was very bad, but it was child's play compared to Bush.

Once Nixon was out of office, even though Vietnam continued for years, the feeling was that we still had our basic freedoms here at home, and that the system had worked in stopping Nixon and exposing his actions. It will take generations to reverse the economic and systemic damage Bush et al have wrought on every single governmental agency in this country, in a trickle down economic drain which has severely damaged us at the federal, state and local govt. level.

[July]

105. It's so hard to believe the system no longer works.

I can't get over that. These creeps have dismantled the system the Constitution set up for us, and nobody's raised a peep. I agree with you that it will take a long time to try to get us back to some kind of real democracy. They've parked their cronies throughout the bureaucracy and changed regulations in every sector. We're well and truly screwed.

[Old and In the Way]

52. Republicans were different back then.

They put Country before Party. We sure could use some William Cohen's and Pete McClosky's in the Republican Syndicate. My "moderate" Republican Senators (Snowe and Collins) are obviously terrorized into submission.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

58. Pete McClosky's runnning again for Congress.

[Old and In the Way]

60. I thought I heard that.

Seems like he'd be pretty old to make much of an impact on this breed of corrupt Republicans. Not a bad thing, though, I'd like to see more liberal Republicans fighting to take back their Party.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

61. He's 78. He wants to 'take back the Republican Party'. Here's

a link.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-09-capitol-comeback_x.htm


:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[Up2Late]

59. I wonder if there is anyway to publicize THIS poll? That would be cool.

I can just see it,

"94% of Democratic Activists say that Bush is worse than Nixon ever was..."

[no safe haven]

63. Nixon did not bring religion into politics

He didn't allow the religious wackos have free rein in dictating social policy, as is the case now. If Nixon was once regarded as the ‘used car salesman’ of politics, Bush can be regarded as the pusherman (apologies to Curtis Mayfield).

[Raine]

64. NO

Nixon may have been twisted but he was very smart, he wasn't an idiot like chimp. Nixon was also more progressive, he created the Environmental Protection Agency and I think he would be sick about what chimp has done to it. I'm not saying Nixon was a good guy but compared to chimp he actually looks good.

[B Calm]

65. I served in the Navy under Nixon. His son-in law David was a

young officer aboard the ship I was stationed on. I hated Nixon with a passion. But... it never got this bad..

[EFerrari]

67. Nixon was a president. Bush is a placeholder for corporate

interests.

They're not even the same animal.

As awful as Nixon was, you still had to respect his accomplishments.

Bush has none.

[H2O Man]

68. Other.

It's a great comparison, but it is important to recognize some of the weaknesses in it. Let's look:

(1) Nixon didn't start Vietnam, though he was VP when the investment of American military advisors really began. (Still, the economic commitment was there from Truman.) Bush did start the war in Iraq, though he believes he inherited it from his Dad.

(2) Far more American soldiers died daily in Vietnam, than thus far in the MiddleEast.

(3) Both wars cost the country its ability to make ends meet domestically.

(4) Nixon was not amoral, as someone else posted. He was decidedly immoral. Bush is amoral. Both had sociopathic tendencies, but it would be far more difficult to make a serious case that Nixon was a true sociopath.

(5) Nixon had good qualities. He cared about young people, the environment, and America. He actually did more good for traditional Native Americans than any other president. Bush is lacking in good qualities.

(6) Nixon believed that the presidency was imperial; Bush that it is revolutionary. Neither were able to accept the balance of powers demanded by the constitution. Both were willing to trample the Bill of Rights.

(7) Nixon had a major psychological break towards the end of his presidency. It is curious that he was one of only two who is well documented to have had such a break, the other being LBJ. Bush on the other hand has shown little evidence of having much contact with the "real world" as such. He has lived a sheltered existence, from childhood to presidency.

(8) Nixon admitted he was "wrong," but never that he was leading the group of criminals. Rather, he implied that he was wrong to trust others who misled him. Bush lacks the capacity for insight to even be as deceitful, in this manner, as "Tricky Dick."

(9) There was a hopefulness in the late '60s and early '70s that is generally lacking today. It would be wrong to think, as one of my DUer friends does, that the Nixon-era generation "solved" or "resolved" problems, then stopped caring, and the country went back to being bad. Everything is a progression, a direct consequence, in fact, of that which came before it. And that is the real value in comparing Nixon and Bush.

[EFerrari]

69. The fundamental difference seems to me to be, Nixon was a person

where Bush is a brand.

I wonder if we will ever have a statesman in the presidency again or if we're locked into purchasing brands that sell.

/ack

[H2O Man]

76. Kep point.

It is difficult to picture a statesman having a chance right now. Certainly, the playing field favors the brand man/woman these days. It is sad to see some who have the potential to be statesmen have to become packaged when they reach the national level.

Carter attempted to become a statesman after the packaging allowed him to become president. The results may be what has discouraged others since.

[EFerrari]

82. Because nationally, the media has become so compromised --

in the sense that you must fit a template to be covered -- I suspect that a lot of interest and energy will become very local. Our town council, our county officials.

It's odd because the pasteurizing of the media seems to be resulting in a fragmentation of a national consciousness when one might expect the opposite outcome.

We have a wonderful supervisor here who initiates things like withdrawing from Iraq, censuring Bush, asking Fox to terminate O'Reilly. He hasn't bought in to the template in the way our mayor has. But he would be impossible in a national venue.

[H2O Man]

86. In a very real sense,

we do not have anti-war leadership that is comparable to the Nixon era, including among students, for the very reasons that you mention. I suspect that eventually, the grass-roots/parochial base will be the foundation that statesmanship is (re)built upon. It will be in spite of the corporate media, of course, and not due to it.

[Oeditpus Rex]

70. I think it was this bad under Nixon, *but*

Americans weren't nearly as aware as they are now, since there was no 24-hour news and no internet. But what was known was trusted, because the reporting was just that — reporting. We weren't told different stories, or different takes on the same story, by as many different news sources. If Walter Cronkite said it or the New York Times printed it, by God, we believed it. We may not have agreed with it, but we believed it.

We don't have that anymore, because instead of telling us what happened, the media now tells us what to think about it. But we're told one thing by one source and another thing by another source, so we trust none of them.

As for Nixon himself, people have said in this thread that he cared about America. Maybe he did; it's hard to know because it's easy for a politician to fake that. But he was very concerned about how his presidency would be perceived in history, and that — if that alone — led him to do some positive things.

I don't think * gives a Republican rat's ass how he's seen by anyone, with the possible exception of his "base." The Freepers labor under the misconception that this is a good thing, as it allows him to make decisions unfettered by public opinion. But those of us who don't have to make excuses for gross negligence understand that if you're accountable to no one... well, let's let Lord Acton finish that:

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Nixon hadn't the power of * because he had powerful enemies and relatively little in the way of protection from them. The GOP learned well from Watergate and has so isolated and protected its "golden boys" (including Reagan and *41) that their enemies cannot/could not get close enough to inflict more than superficial damage, if they aren't/weren't disempowered altogether.

I think we remember Nixon's crimes as less heinous than *'s, but I think Nixon was every bit as corrupt. He just wasn't given nearly as much rein as *, and I consider that — the aiding and abetting of the most corrupt administration this country has had to endure — the greater crime than those committed by the Wregime.

[Kali]

113. Ok here is the response, finally.

;-)

I tend to agree with what you say EXCEPT that I really think dumbya has issues with his parents and does care (in a sick way) about what someone thinks - daddy. I think this clown is mentally ill and I buy the long distance psycho-evaluations about his drydrunk state, and I suspect he isn't all that dry either. (I have some experience with it and too much of w's behavior causes a deep gut reaction in me - thank goodness I don't have television and don't have to watch him very often!)

[MrBenchley]

71. Worse under Nixon in every way....

You don't have cops and National Guardsmen shooting down protestors, for one thing...

[EFerrari]

72. Gitmo. Katrina. Iraq. 9/11. Abu Graib.

Kent State was terrible. But it wasn't institutionalized.

:(

[MrBenchley]

73. Cambodia. Laos. Cointelpro. My Lai. Plumbers.

Trust me. Nixon was much much worse.

[EFerrari]

75. I have a friend who flew AirAmerica.

And, I wouldn't mind being wrong on this one.

Nixon didn't have the infrastructure that Junior has. You got the feeling there was a there, there.

Today, it's more like we're being f#cked by committee. I hope you're right, Mr. Benchley. I have two sons who will have to deal with the fallout.

[MrBenchley]

77. Nixon was a good public speaker

and most of the stuff from that era was swept under the carpet....cointelpro, for example. By contrast, Chimpy's outrages are being dragged to the surface quickly..

[H2O Man]

78. Interesting.

The thought that Nixon was a good public speaker might surprise people, because watching him on film today, we areaware of his crimes and humiliation. Yet he had the ability to communicate, and that is supported by the series of books he wrote in his later life. One can hardly imagine Bush writing anything of significance on American foreign policy after he retires.

[July]

106. He was also a self-made man, something Chimp could never accomplish.

Yeah, he was slimy from the beginning, but his own efforts got him ahead, even after he'd been written off. I'm still waiting to learn of one thing Bush has done without the help of Dad or Dad's name, money, and friends.

[Up2Late]

109. Most likely, he'll write a book on "clearin' brush" and fooling people...

...into thinking that a Connecticut born, prep school educated, Ivy League slacker, is actually a "Texas Ranch" owning "Good ol' boy." :evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

110. He was a tremendously effective public speaker

because he was utterly dishonest and willing to say anything, no matter how presposterous, with fierce conviction.

The Checkers speech is a perfect example....he bamboozled millions of Americans with it. You will notice he never answers any questions about his slush fund in it. The speech is all about his wife's cloth coat and his dog.

[EFerrari]

84. Junior's missteps do get out quickly but, even so,

they are piled on.

It's so strange but the strategy seems to be, set fire after fire. We run around trying to muffle the last one and, poof! There's the new one. Karl actually gets mileage out of his own screw ups.

/k-> l

[bunkerbuster1]

83. Agreed, if mostly from a humanitarian standpoint.

Younger people don't really comprehend the scale of human slaughter committed by Nixon's phase of the war in Southeast Asia.

I agree there are some aspects to life today that are much more troubling--the institutionalized support, and the alarming theofascism--that weren't there under Nixon.

[Minnesota Libra]

74. Under Nixon it got bad, BUT there wasn't ......

....the overwhelming fear in the air that there is today. Plus, it was obvious from the start that he as going down. It was just a matter of time and who or what would the the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. PLUS, at least Nixon didn't try to turn all areas of life into a dictatorship. Oh, Nixon wanted power, no question about that and he had his "enemies list" too. One thing about Nixon, he knew when to get out. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the press was still in tact and they did true reporting too instead of these puff pieces.

[LizW]

79. Two things make Bush MUCH more terrifying than Nixon

1. The ability and willingness to steal elections.

2. Control of the press.

The raw grab for power is the same. The Repugs were forced to reign Nixon in because the press was exposing his crimes and he was going to take the party down with him. The Repugs aren't afraid of Bush/Cheney taking them down today because they know elections can be rigged and the press won't expose it.

:scared:

[EFerrari]

85. Bingo.

:scared:

[BlackVelvet04]

80. We didn't have the technology that we do today.....

so we didn't read and hear about everything as much as we do now.

[EFerrari]

87. That's very true. We got news in a completely different way

in 1974 than we do now.

In fact, the Watergate hearings were groundbreaking because they were on all day. I was as pregnant as possible that summer, lol, and spent a lot of it in a recliner watching the hearings. It was special because usually, you only got news early in the morning or at 6 o'clock.

[BlackVelvet04]

91. Not to mention

many of us were too busy going to concerts, smoking funny cigarettes and making love,not war.

[EFerrari]

94. Well, there was that, too.

:)

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

88. No. Too many people hated Nixon before he was president

for us to trust him once he was elected.

Also, back then "populist" was the default position. People could be conservative in a lot of ways - cultural, economic - but if they had experienced the Great Depression, they were generally pro-New Deal and helping your fellow man. John Birch types were considered cranks and kooks.

How did that change? Civil rights. The GOP won a lot of middle class and working class people and got them to work against their best interests by playing on their innate bigotries and fear of falling property values. Those voters started falling in the GOP's lap in the 60s; by the 70s the party realized they had a goldmine to exploit and started putting the PR in place to work it. Once the country had experienced a recession, many were eager to embrace Reagan's fantasy get-rich schemes.

It all boils down to, nobody learns from history. The coming Grand Depression will help restore the balance after a lot of terrible, terrible suffering. Phoenix from the ashes. And then it will all start again.

[0007]

89. The folks had some balls and protested.

Here is a short list of their actions.

1. Eight hundred Peace Corps volunteers protested the war to President Johnson.

2. Thousand of people refused to pay taxes.

3. Hunger strikes for peace.

4. Three men and two women calling themselves "The East Coast Conspiracy to Save Lives," sabotaged rail equipment near a factory making bombs in the war zone and diverted to to neutral Cambodia.

6. Various demonstrations at college commencements. At Brown University, two-thirds of the graduates turned their backs on Henry Kissinger during the 1969 commencement ceremony.

7. Fifty writers and publishers, at a Nation Book Award Ceremony, walked out of a speech by Vice President Hubert Humphrey. One of them, a novelist, call out, "Mr. Vice President, we are burning children in Vietnam and you and we are all responsible."

8. Distinguished writers, invited to the White House, refused to go; the poet Robert Lowell and the playwright Arthur Miller. On the other, the singer Eartha Kitt attended a lawn party given by Mrs. Johnson at the White House and used the occasion to make a public statement against the war.

9. Young Americans in London crashed a party at the American ambassador's elegant Fourth of July reception, called for everyone's attention, and proposed a toast: "To the dead and dying in Vietnam."

10. Teenager's called to the White House to accept 4-H Club Prizes shook hands with the president and asked him to stop the war.

p.p. 143 & 145 "Passionate Declarations" Howard Zinn

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

90. Bush is working on it, but Nixon was worse.

The difference was that opposition to Nixon was far more pronounced and defiant. Not by the politicians, of course, but in the streets.

[mandyky]

93. Other - The 4th Estate actually did their job

during Nixon. Nixon wasn't as "good" at PR as this krew is.

I think this bunch is outdoing Nixon by far.

[enid602]

97. escape

But we had disco then! Seems like there's no respite these days.

[mattclearing]

100. Reading through this thread, I get the distinct impression that

all of the people pointing out the impressive parts of Nixon's legacy are pointing out reasons why he was booted from office.

After all, we know Nixon did tons of the things that were impeachable, as Bush has.

But forming the EPA, looking at tax reforms to benefit the lower classes?

To the people capable of doing such things, those are impeachable offenses.

Ask Bill Clinton.

[Atman]

104. There was no cable news back then...all networks covered hearing all day

It was amazing...every diner or drug store you'd go into had their black & white portable with rabbit ears, showing the hearings all the time. News outlets were actually covering news, not celebrity gossip. The big difference was the volume of criminality coming at us. With Watergate, we had a couple big, big issues. With BushCO, not a day goes by that there isn't even MORE evil-doing revealed about the cabal.

This period now is absolutely stunning in its scope. BushCo makes Nixon look like a piker.

(stare at this picture for about ten seconds...amazing optical illusion!) ;-)



(edited to point out the fact that I am not over 50!)

[Independent_Liberal]

107. The Bush era should be called "Watergate on Steroids"

It's virtually a carbon copy of the Nixon presidency. Except with lots more crime, corruption, cronyism, abuse of power, miltiary industrial complex, new and improved intelligence agencies, and a corporate controlled media. Another thing we have that the Watergate era didn't have is the Internet. Blogs like Brad Blog and Daily Kos are the Woodward and Bernsteins of this era.

[lectrobyte]

108. This era feels much worse. With Nixon, I didn't have the creepy

fear that seeing someone like Ashcroft in power gives me. Also, Nixon would probably seem like the most extreme liberal on environmental matters.

[KAT119]

111. I DON'T REMEMBER THINKING HE WOULD LIKELY BLOW UP THE PLANET!!

[In_The_Wind]

112. It was bad with Nixon but this is worse!

[Kali]

114. What do you mean?

50 + members?

and


"this bad"? do you mean were the crimes this bad, or were the reactions by citizens or press? Not sure of the intention of your questions.