The MSNBC faked abduction

[malaise]

seeing howmany people wuold help a child being abducted by a stranger.

Here is the little girl being grabbed by this man (a cop in real life) and several people ignore her screams - help, help, you're not my dad while struggling. People walk by - parents, singles, some with kids but mostly just people going about their business. They look - they look away - they move on. Eventually two guys come over to challenge the man - two young African American guys. Why am I not surprised. Quite touching.

Interestingly, one older woman was on her cell phone calling the cops but did not intervene which is reasonable at her age.

[MissB]

1. Sheesh. The child is even screaming exactly

what she is supposed to. :scared:

[xultar]

16. It could have been her step-dad. I don't think that scream works.

[Teaser]

2. The actor is lucky he didn't get his ass kicked.

I would have tried to injure him. Badly.

[MADem]

5. Can you imagine a situation with some Chuck Norris wannabee

coming on the scene? Or a Dirty Harry wannabee? It could get UGLY...

[anarch]

14. yeah, I can see this whole thing ending up very, very badly

I get their point, but jeez...what were they going to do if somebody just shot the dude?

[Lasher]

8. Would not be a good move around here in West Virginia

The actor might have gotten himself blown away. Some of us pack heavy, and are not tolerant of people who want to hurt children.

[redqueen]

3. Words can't even describe

how absolutely, staggeringly sad that is.

:(

[cynatnite]

4. It seemed like people weren't sure to intervene...

I only caught a little bit, but the impression I got was that people thought maybe it was a kid who was acting up with his/her parent. It's something to be careful of these days. You're damned either way.

[SeattleGirl]

13. I would still intervene, though

I'd rather err on the side of caution. I don't mean I'd rush over and try to grab the child away, because kids DO act up. But I'd definitely check the sitation out.

A number of years ago, in Eugene, OR, I was downtown, and this little kid was throwing a fit. He was obviously getting on his mom's last nerve, and she yanked his arm really hard. Children's shoulders can be dislocated quite easily when that is done. I went over to the woman, and said, "Wow, your little guy is having a bad day at the office, huh?" She was near tears, and said, yes. I invited her to sit down with me for a minute on a nearby bench. The little boy had calmed down, and was looking at me. The three of us sat down, I chatted with the woman and made faces at the little boy (he started laughing), and both of them calmed down. They soon went on their way.

I never mentioned the arm-yanking, but if she had continued to do it, I would have called the police. Fortunately, it all turned out well.

[cynatnite]

23. You're right...

Better to be safe than sorry. I probably would have intervened in some non-threatening way to assess the situation.

[EFerrari]

25. Maybe I'm an idiot but I've gotten between a raised fist and a kid

on several occasions.

I know, having raised two, uhm, ACTIVE boys, that kids can melt a parent's heart into smoldering rage. It happens. But the deal is, that rage needs to be dealt with by the adult who owns it.

Last time, I loudly and slowly told one woman right in front of God and our laundromat and everybody that if anyone on our block EVER saw her strike her son again, we would turn her in immediately. And I said that as I was dialing the police's number. She had clubbed the kid on HIS TWO YEAR OLD HEAD with her closed fist in broad daylight on our block. It was just unbelievable.

Usually, I try to get the parent to talk to me -- because the kid goes home with them, not me. That day, it wasn't going to happen. She had three on or in that stroller. Oh man.

[elehhhhna]

27. We spent a week at a resort where a young Mother was really nasty

to her 2 y/o daughter. The mom was a chippie married to a MUCH older and obviously very wealthy man. My 2 y/o played with theirs on the beach. The mother would push and taunt her child when she got fussy--even mock her, sometimes smack her. People at the resort were talking about this ignorant woman all over the place.

On the third day, despite a total language barrier (they were Argentinian) I nicely interrupted her and showed her (using my daughter) how to hold her very close when she was fussy or frustrated. She got it. The child LOVED it. Calmed IMMEDIATELY. The mother was obviously relieved and very, very appreciative. When the father showed up and saw his wife gigging and cuddling with the kid, he looked shocked. For the rest of the week they were like a different family.

A witness to our exchange later told me "You made a miracle." One of the greatest compliments I've ever recieved.

[Alamom]

6. I saw that this morning. I was touched also as the two young men

showed genuine concern and reacted appropriately. I saw a lot of other people just looking.

[pitohui]

7. didn't see it but "you're not my dad" you hear that every day

you hear that all the time from kids who don't like step dad or step mom

call the cops and let them sort it out if it looks suspicious, otherwise, can't really see how you can take it on yourselves to intervene

so i vote w. the older lady, that's what the cell and the cops are there for

[valerief]

9. I saw this, too. I wonder how many people actually processed

the girl's words. So many kids have public tantrums that you tend to tune them out. Although, I think I would have been somewhat curious in this case, because it was a man and not a woman dragging the kid. Most men just don't usually trouble themselves with whiny kids.

Of course, don't forget the real villains in this scenario. Not the onlookers but the kidnapper.

[hedgehog]

10. Oddly enough, we had that case here in Syracuse -

a woman spotted a kidnapper and stopped him in the act.

[jedicord]

11. People simply don't want to get involved.

A few years ago my husband and I were caught up in a sort of road rage. It was a Sunday afternoon at a busy intersection. We were waiting to turn left at a light, and two guys in a pickup truck taking a turn almost hit us. My husband gave them the one finger salute, the U-turned and jumped out, as did my husband. I then jumped out to stop the madness and one of the guys had a gun pointed at me.

My husband (the wise one) had already gotten in the car. Well, my little boy was in the back seat with the new aquarium fish we had just gotten, so I got feisty. I told them to get in the truck and leave, I had a little boy in the car. The guy pointed the gun at my son. Long story short, I got lucky and they eventually got back in the truck and took off.

During this relatively long discourse, there was a lady in a car behind me and cars went back and forth, surely seeing the pistol in the guys hand. Not a soul called 911 from the safety of their car. Not a soul.

[pitohui]

17. good lord

once i saw a man being walked down the street by another man w. a gun, this was before cell phones were even invented, but i ducked into a bar and called the police

they said they were aware because many others had called and they were on their way, in fact i heard sirens almost immediately

the only reason i can think to be afraid to use your cell to call is you want to report anonymously but when some whack is waving a gun around, time to get the cops and worry about preserving one's precious anonymity when there is no chance of bullets flying around

i'm glad your family came out okay!

[Kierkegaard]

12. I didn't get to see that, but I have a question...

what was the venue? Did it take place right out in the open, like a city sidewalk?

If that's the case, it probably didn't register with the 'average Joe.' I doubt most people would try to discern a difference between a child pulling a 'stunt' and someone trying to nab the child in broad daylight in front of lots of witnesses.

[MissB]

18. On the sidewalk with the child screaming "Someone help, you're not my dad"

She repeated it several times each time. Over the course of a couple of hours, only two guys stopped. One lady was on the cell phone calling the police at the time the guys ran down the "abductor" but other than that, everyone else ignored the guy and the child.

It is one of those chilling videos - as a parent, you tell your child to scream "stop, help, you are not my mom/dad" instead of just randomly screaming. The theory is that those words will attract attention and people *won't* ignore the child, whereas just screaming looks like a temper tantrum.

[Kierkegaard]

31. I'm wondering

if the reponse had as much to do with the scene being in such a public area as it did with societal apathy? I would have liked to have seen the facial expressions and body language of the people around that scene. Something to give insight into whether they just didn't care, were confused, scared, or what.

[malaise]

33. They'll repeat DanAbrams later

do have a look.

[Marie26]

36. I think it's societal apathy.

There was a famous case years ago where a woman was murdered in full sight of a crowded apartment building. She was crying for help, but not a single person came out to help. Psychologists have done studies that show that the more people that are around, the less people are willing to help. Everyone assumes "someone else" will step in, so they don't have to. It's an easy way to abdicate responsibility. I think, if there was no one else on the street, people might have been more willing to take action.

[Alamom]

22. Yes, open plaza - like area. Wide sidewalks, day time and

many people around watching. The kid (maybe 10, not a toddler) was screaming like crazy, trying to pull away and the guy was literally dragging her away.

The two young men were walking away and turned when they heard the commotion. They did not run and attack....they skipped or walked briskly toward the incident and did not get in the man's face but circled a little, stood back and it appeared asked what he was doing. At that point he let go of the kid and explained it was an act, he was a cop.

The cop later said the two men acted completely appropriately. Don't attack, approach carefully, keep the child in your sight and find out what's going on. Also, an elderly woman was calling 911 and if this had been an actual abduction, the two men had stalled the abductor and drawn more attention to the situation.

I think that was the point...don't try to fight or attack. Try to stop the incident and get more people looking and around. And someone call 911.

[malaise]

28. Yep

city sidewalk - New York I think.

Still I remember decades ago in Brooklyn, one of my friends had arrived in the US to do his residency and we picked him up to have Sunday dinner. Just as we got on the street from the subway, there was a woman who collapsed and eager beaver went over to help. He identified himself as a doctor. People who were gathering told him to leave the woman since if he helped and she died, he could be sued. We were both pretty damned shocked since that would never happen in the Caribbean. Most doctors would help.

Gosh live is hard since money overtook humanity - you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Still I would have gone to the kid's assistance. Better to err on the side of her safety.
Edit -sp.

[Kierkegaard]

34. I agree. Better to err on the side of what's right.

In this situation, even if I wasn't too sure it was legit, I would never have just walked away and pretended the child was acting out. I couldn't sleep at night if I did...

[SomewhereOutThere424]

15. It's sad that it's true...

In places like long island I've seen things like that happen when I was real young. I asked my mom why no one is helping them, and she would reply something like 'oh we can't always tell when a child is telling the truth'. Apparently most people ignore other kids' because they assume they're just trouble makers...reminds me of another topic here on DU floating around.

[MadMaddie]

19. Kitty Genovese syndrome anyone....

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/kitty_genovese/


This is a complacent lazy and I don't want to get involved society.....this is the Reagan and * society....don't care about your fellow man society....

It's pathetic.....

Good job to the two young men that stopped it!!!

[MadMaddie]

20. Self Delete dupe...

[varkam]

21. The Bystander Effect

The Bystander Effect is a well documented social-psychological phenomenon that explains why things like this happen. It was first demonstrated in 1974 (I think) with the (in)famous Kitty Genovese case. Kitty Genovese was brutally attacked outside of her apartment complex in New York City. It took quite some time for her to bleed to death following the attack, during which time she screamed for help. 38 people heard her screams - no one called the police.

The Bystander Effect holds that the further you are removed from the incident and/or the more bystanders that there are also viewing the incident with you, the less likely you are to help. Think about it - if someone slips and falls in a restaurant, and there are a large number of people around, the less likely that person is to help. However if they are the only person around, the motivation to help is quite strong.

This has been demonstrated repeatedly in experiments published in peer-reviewed scientific journals. The upside is this - if one is informed of the bystander effect, then one is more likely to help in such a situation. So the next time you're out somewhere and see something going on, remember the bystander effect.

And by the way, I think it's pretty messed up, but it's the way we are.

On edit: Someone posted about this as I was typing it, but this just distills it down to a few paragraphs.

[Alamom]

32. It is true. I was grabbed on a busy street one day at lunchtime.

There were people everywhere. I was grown, 22, but I'm small and @ 22, looked much younger.
A large man in the crowd grabbed my arm. I thought he wanted my purse and I was trying to get it off my shoulder and give it to him. He wouldn't let go and started pulling me toward an alley.
I started screaming and no one stopped or even looked. They looked down at the side walk and kept walking. He managed to pull me about 10 ft. We were at the entrance to the alley, I got my balance and kneed him in the groin. He let go and as I turned to run, he slapped me hard across the face.
He disappeared in the alley. I ran until I could see my building and people I knew returning from lunch and stood in shock. Someone I worked with saw me standing there barefoot and with a hand print on my face and took me in. (as he was dragging me, my shoes came off)

No one helped me.

32 years later, I still don't understand why no one looked or helped.



FYI, I was dressed in a business suit. My office had a very conservative dress code.

[varkam]

35. One interesting thing...

about emergency situations is that we tend to look at each other's faces to figure out what's going on. If we look at everyone and everyone else is freaking out, then we freak out too - we assume it's an emergency. If everyone is calm and stonefaced and looking straight ahead (which is the norm for the US anyway), then we too are calm and stonefaced.

I can't say anything like that has ever happened to me, though I have to think it's a horrible experience to have had (in need of help and no one helping). I'm glad you socked him one good though - he deserves a lot more.

[malaise]

37. Good grief

that must have been frightening. Sounds ridiculous to say, but you were lucky.

[Alamom]

38. Yes, I was. I always wondered if it was a one time thing for

this man or if he was a predator and some other young woman or girl may not have been so fortunate.

[stopbush]

24. I was struck by the arrogance of MSNBC to believe they had the right to

pull this kind of shitty stunt. It's right up there with their "we're trapping sex offenders" crapola
they aired last year. It gives NBC a sense that they're part of the moral police, when in fact, they're
just inoculating the public to taking such cries for help seriously.

But, hey! They got their intended reaction from the public, including DUers - people are
BAD, the world is SCARY, no body CARES, you're on your own. Bullshit!

I find the NBC trap-the-bad/good-guys stunts smarmy.

[EFerrari]

26. Smarmy AND they are not law enforcement pros.

They continue to blurr the line between entertainment and real life where there is that little thing, the law.

[malaise]

29. People did care n/t

[berni_mccoy]

30. Isn't this kind of stunt ILLEGAL? That's like yelling "Fire" in a theater

isn't it? Granted, you aren't going to cause a trampelling rush out the door by faking an abduction, but imagine the distress on the witnesses... WTF is wrong with the media today?