Help me understand how the Dem's didn't take money from Abramoff?

[southernleftylady]

please..
thanks

[ret5hd]

1. what is there to help you understand? ...

Dem's didn't take money from abramoff.

did that help? maybe i'm dense...i don't get it.

[truth2power]

16. Oops! Never mind. I should read more closely before I post...

Was thinking OPer was "OldLeftyLawyer".

Cripes! Need to make the coffee stronger next time. :dunce:

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Indian tribes have traditionally donated to DEMS

and continue to do so. Abramoff and the Repugs went after their money by cheating and lying and got the tribes to start spending on Repugs as well.

Abramoff did not give any money to Dems. All his money went to Repugs.

[blm]

19. The tribe's money wasn't dirty UNTIL Abramoff USED IT for his briberies.

.

[1932]

dupe

[1932]

3. Why would they?

Republican money bought majority control of every branch of government. They don't really need to buy off Democrats anymore.

Also, only an extreme idealogue would have taken things as far as Abramoff did, and Abramoff's extreme conservative ideology apparently was to destroy the party that didn't orient its entire identity around creating a very economically polarized society in which the few people on the very top had total power.

[Lars39]

4. From what I understand, the Dems received contributions

directly from the tribes.

[1932]

6. And the tribes were his victims.

[Lars39]

10. Yes.

From what I understand, the tribes did nothing wrong.

[KittyWampus]

24. The Tribes Began Contributing MORE To Republicans After Abramoff

the Tribes, while being defrauded, knowingly made a pact with the devil.

[emulatorloo]

5. as I understand it

Abramoff gave money to Republicans in exchange for votes

OTOH Abramoff's clients (Indian Tribes) gave legal campaign donations to Dems.

Quite simply, Abramoff's clients are not Abramoff, just as I am not my lawyer, even though I am her client.



Abramoff was also cheating his clients and stealing from them.

GOP and media seems to want to blur the difference, for some reason or another. Bet you can guess why.

[Mossadeq]

7. A list of the tribes would be helpful.

Do we know exactly which tribes Abramoff delt with ?

[Cerridwen]

9. From wikipedia: (proceed accordingly)

much more "fun and entertaining" information at the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abramoff-Reed_Indian_Gambling_Scandal

Alleged spending irregularities

In 2004, Abramoff resigned from Greenberg Traurig amid a scandal related to spending irregularities in his work as a lobbyist for Native American tribes involved in gambling, namely The Mississippi Choctaw, the Louisiana Coushatta, the Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians, Sandia Pueblo, the Saginaw Chippewa and the Tigua of Ysleta del Sur Pueblo.

The Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians paid $15 million to Abramoff and Scanlon's organizations. The bills were heavily padded. For example, in April 2000 he padded 2 hours with over 60 hours to achieve a "$150k minimum". <3> The funds were diverted to a number of projects, including the Eshkol Academy, an all-boys Orthodox Jewish school set up by Abramoff in Maryland, and to a friend who ran sniper workshops for the Israel Defence Forces.<4>

[Mossadeq]

12. Thanks. looks like 7 tribes

[TahitiNut]

17. Here's a list of Abramoff lobbying clients.

from http://www.capitaleye.org/abramoff_lobbying.asp

Agua Caliente Band Of Cahuilla Indians
Alleghany Corp
American Casino Entertainment Services
American Classic Voyages Co
American Intl Center
American Pelagic Fishing Co
ATOFINA Chemicals
Battelle Memorial Inst
BNSF Railway Co.
Brown-Forman Corp
Business Software Alliance
Cash America Intl, Inc
Channel One Network
Cherokee Nation Enterprise
Chitimacha Tribe Of Louisiana
Coastal Transportation
Commonwealth Of The Northern Mariana Islands
Court TV
Coushatta Tribe Of Louisiana
DH2
Dredging Contractors Of America
Dry Prairie Rural Water
Elottery, Inc
Envirocare Of Utah
Estate Of Kurt Nottenbohm
Flight Intl
Fluor Corp
Foster Wheeler Corp
Future Of Puerto Rico
General Council For Islamic Banks
Grant County Public Utility Dist No. 2
Guam Intl Airport Authority
H.D. Vest Financial Services
Hazardous Waste Action Coalition
Hill Betts & Nash
Hills, Howard
Intermodal Assn Of North America
Intl Interactive Alliance
Lake Carriers Assn
Magazine Publishers Of America
Microsoft Corp
Mississippi Band Of Choctaw Indians
Mormac Marine Group
Natl Center For Economic Freedom
Natl Produce Production
Neptune Orient Lines
Northern Telecom
Omi Corp
Pitney Bowes
Port Of Seattle
Prime Time 24
Primedia Inc
Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe
Saipan Garment Manufacturers Assn
Sandia Pueblo
Shaw Environmental & Infrastucture
Simpson Investment Co
Southeast Alaska Regional Health Consortia
Suncruz Casino Llc
Sunmar Shipping
Tate & Lyle North American Sugars
Transportation Inst
Tyco
U S Maritime Coalition
Unisys Corp
USFHP Conference Group
Voor Huisen Project Management
Voor Huisen Project Management Service Bedryt B.V., Ltd
Westerman Shapiro Draghi & Miller, Llp
Western Pacific Economic Council

[Cerridwen]

8. Here ya go:

Link to donations made by Jack Abramoff at the Feceral Election Commission website:

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/qind/

Not one Democrat in the bunch - go ahead, click link after link of repub candidate or organization to which he donated

Abramoff had some clients he and his pal ralph reed were ripping of "two ways to Sunday." Those clients, organizations which have traditionally contributed to Democratic candidates and causes, contributed to Democratic candidates and causes.

Here's just one link of many out there with their sordid little tale:

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20040712&s=newfield


Corporate media is trying to paint the money given by abramoff's clients to democrats as abramoff's donation going to Democrats. Quite a stretch, but it seems to be working.

[NMDemDist2]

11. here's a snippet of a Jack-off email that shows the tribes didn't always

do what the Repukes wanted

Then Abramoff turned right around and offered his serv-ices to the Tigua Indians to lobby to get Congress to open the casino back up. "I wish those moronic Tiguas were smarter in their political contributions," Abramoff e-mailed Reed. "I'd love us to get our mitts on that moolah!! Oh well, stupid folks get wiped out."

[phillysuse]

13. The Democrats have no power

in Congress.
The Republicans control the House and the Senate.
Bill originate in Republican committees and Republicans control what bills come to the floor.
He didn't need to give money to Dems.

[oasis]

21. Delay's "K-Street Project" was designed to eliminate money to Dems.

The mainstream "liberal" media is under-reporting the history and the implications of the K-Sreet Project.

[TahitiNut]

14. Abramoff's personal contributions were 100% Republican.

Here are the facts ...

• Jack Abramoff made (individual) contributions to Republicans only.
• Jack Abramoff was a Bush/Cheney "Pioneer" - brokering over $100,000 in contributions from other individuals for the Bush/Cheney campaign in 2004.
• Jack Abramoff had many lobbying clients in the last 7 years, predominantly because the "K-Street Project" has been largely successful in excommunicating Democratic and non-partisan lobbyists, requiring that lobbying firms employ Republicans and contribute to Republicans in order to have access to a Congress that's majority Republican. (This is contrary to the First Amendment guarantee of the right to petition government, abridging that right for ideologically dissenting people - the very people for whom such a right is most important!)
• Abramoff's clients included Microsoft and Unisys, as well as Native American tribes.
• Abramoff defrauded the tribes - they're his victims. It's called extortion.
• The fraudulently-obtained money extorted from the tribes went to Republicans as quid-pro-quos for favors.
• Abramoff's clients, including the tribes, made other contributions not extorted by Abramoff in return for favors from Republican legislators.

The false memes being spread by corrupt Republicans with the assistance of the media depend upon people with limited mental skills, either unwilling to or incapable of comprehending the extent and nature of the appalling corruption.

[AlCzervik]

15. Abramoff didn't need or want democrats, he himself contributed 0 to them

some of his clients did but they were other peoples clients as well.

[blm]

18. When some FOX employees donated to Gore and Kerry was it equal to FOX

network catapulting the proBush, proGOP propaganda the last ten years?

[Ready4Change]

20. Someone correct me if/where I am wrong?

Abramoff gave money to Repubs. Accounted for and legal.
Tribes gave money to Repubs. Again, accounted for and legal.

Abramoff gave no money to Dems. None. Zero. Nada.
Tribes gave Dems money. As with Repubs, this accounted for and legal.

No foul up to this point. Here comes the problem. Follow the string.

Tribes gave Abramoff money. He then gave that money to the (RNC?), which then gave nearly identical amounts to Repubs, in amounts that violate election laws and in a way that avoids proper accounting, which is another violation.

That is the illegal action and it ONLY effects Repubs, since the (RNC?) isn't likely to donate to Dems.

How'd I do?

[Mossadeq]

22. yep, yep, and yep

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. Good point - it is the RNC that funneled the money illegally

When does the special investigation start?

[Zen Democrat]

25. Because Abramoff didn't give a single cent to Democrats.

Democrats got contributions from Indian tribes. The fact that many of these tribes hired Abramoff as a lobbyist has led to the dump of donations.

However, Indian tribes have traditionally given to Democrats, since Democrats have been the party most sensitive to their issues. There's nothing wrong about receiving this money.

Abramoff gave his money to Republicans exclusively. There shouldn't be any confusion here. No Democrat got Abramoff money. But, in an election year, lots of Democrats are returning tribal donations so they won't be dogged about it during their campaigns this year. Some are standing on principle and keeping the money.

The problem for the Republicans is bribery, or as I call it, quid-pro-felony.

[Maestro]

26. Abramoff

only gave individually to rethugs sometimes in exchange for votes or perhaps all the time. I don't know and I do not know what exactly he said he did in his plea bargin. Anyhow, the Dems, as has been stated, received large sums of money, at times, from the tribes which is legal. The repukes are trying to make this a bipartisan scandal as spin. Check out this great thread by im10ashus. Not a bipartisan scandal