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Do you think that we are witnessing the end-game in America?

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:18 PM
Original message
Do you think that we are witnessing the end-game in America?
I was reading this thread: "Pundits Still Dumbfounded, Even As Workers' Share of Gains Hits 40-year Lo(w)"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x802045
and the many replies to it and was reminded of a brief exchange I had with another DUer, on a related topic, a few weeks back.

In thinking about a point made in another post I started to inventory the events relating to the evolution of our economy in the last few years. This led me back to the watershed of 1981 and the imposition of raygunomics on an unsuspecting world. I will assume, for the purposes of this post, that we all know pretty much what happened, even though the significance of many of those actions may not have been clear at the time.

My posit is that we may be witnessing the end-game of a strategy, by the ruling class, to kill the concept of America. Destroying the country alone would not be sufficient, the very idea of a nation of, by, and for The People, must be eliminated, or discredited, in/from the global consciousness to ensure it will not rise again in another part of the world.

The Game: From its very inception America has been under attack by those that would force their will on others, for their own gain. The Constitutional Convention itself was fraught with proposals to install a monarchy, oligarchy, or some form of caste system, as the absolute, permanent rulers of this new nation. The forces working against this mindset prevailed (more than ever before) and we got the Constitution and the original 10 amendments.

One of the most bitter battles was over section 8, clause 5; "...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures", this was, like the country itself, a revolutionary idea at the time. In response to the usurious interest that was charged by the European banks to finance the war against the British, the founders reserved the power to coin money and set values and standards exclusively to the congress. This was bad news for the European Banking families as they were, in effect, excluded from this new market, and they immediately set out to wrest this power from the legislature. We all know how difficult it is to get those with power to give that power away and it took a century to accomplish but, by the creation of the Federal Reserve Bank through the scandalous (underhanded re:puke:) passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, accomplish it they did.

Fast forward to 1981 and beyond; We embraced, as a nation, the notion that "what is good for GM is good for America" and supported the deconstruction of the safeguards that were put in place to prevent the repeat of the debacle of 1929, and the ensuing depression. We applauded the de-regulation of essential services and industries. We ridiculed the objections to dismantling the safeguards that hindered management's ability to pit worker against worker. We allowed the worlds most stable financial system, the savings and loan industry, to be subjected to the vagaries of the "marketplace" and subsequently looted by the predators of the banking, insurance, and finance industries that took them over and destroyed them. Public infrastructure was given, completely free of charge, to private companies without even the courtesy of public debate who, in turn, allowed them to deteriorate while increasing the fees they could charge (more looting). We approved the general amnesty of an estimated 10 million illegal aliens and opened the sluices to further suppress our wages and standard of living. We cheered for the bull market of the 80's that solidified the idea that the stock market is the economy, even though most people still didn't own any stock nor understand how it works, and the standard of living for the working class continued to decline.

During this time of hostile take-overs, factory closings, entire industries disappearing over-seas, companies bought, closed, chopped up and its constituent parts sold off for short term profits, we learned to ignore our neighbors and fellow citizens pleas for help. Remember the steel workers? Farm-Aid? The huge pay and benefit concessions that the unions made to allow every industry from automobile manufacturing to the airlines to textiles to become competitive? For that matter, do you remember unions?

So, here's the pay-off. For the last quarter century the ruling class have been the recipients of the greatest redistribution of wealth in the history of America. They have transferred most of that wealth, along with the means of production to other, more "compliant" nations. The American Citizen has been demoted to the amerikan consumer. The real wealth of our nation has been looted and replaced with fiat currency backed by foreign debt and empty promises. We feel, and that feeling can be documented, that things are far worse than we're being told. We can't even have confidence that our votes are counted and our wishes complied with, by those we hired to represent us. So I ask, is there anything left for them to do, beyond one last shearing, before allowing the bottom to fall out while they watch from their safe havens in other parts of the world?
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400Years Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. good post

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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. The tragic part is that they have every poor sob believing
that if he works hard enough and toes the line, that he can be rich too.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
42. The insidiousness of the "American Dream" has always been the
remote chance that you too can have a piece. It was true too, until the real powers decided to repossess it.
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gunsaximbo Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think we [b]could be[/b]
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 02:28 PM by gunsaximbo
If the neocons and the fanatical right wing continues to lead AND if the United States remains divided. Even us liberals can't be right 100% of the time andI think we need to either concede or rethink some of the wedge issues we have decided to embrace.

Gunsaximbo


Alms for the poor??
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I would point out that, while it is primarily a repuke driven agenda,
it is really about class and the democrats have done all of their share, and possibly more, to accomplish it.
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gunsaximbo Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
68. I agree, absolutely.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fait Accompli
All that remains to be answered is if they will offer us the courtesy of a final cigarette.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. What happened to ENRON is what will happen to AMERICA...
I'll take a "Camel" cigarette please, I'd like to die with a little irony.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. OMFG!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Abso-fucking-ly brilliant!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
5. i'm not with you on the immigration thingy
but as a generalization -- it has some good points -- most is attempting to understand we're are witnessing the dimunition of representative democracy.

that the corporate oligarchy is as powerful as our state and federal governments.

we have to understand corporations as a ''branch'' of government -- one we do not elect.
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RufusEarl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Gov. Richard Lamm
Take a moment and read this speech by former Governor of Colorado Richard Lamm, it's pretty well stated.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/lamm.asp
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. wow -- that speech is pretty funny! -- it's always been mexifornia.
i've been here off and on my whole life -- and it's always been a brilliantly active multicultural place.

love it!
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
65. Jeez...
Just read it. Shew.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. Dilution of the workforce is essential to maintaining the decline
of the standard of living, thus the first amnesty, and the current difficulty in getting the next one through.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
45. this country raped africa to dilute the workforce.
we moved a third of europe to our shores for the same purposes.

immigration -- illegal or otherwise isn't the center or even a major leg of what's wrong with our current situation.

here's a couple of other percpectives.

http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Enc/Immigration.html
The Impact of Immigrants on Native Earnings



There are two opposing views about how immigrants affect the labor market opportunities of American natives. One view is that they have a harmful effect because immigrants and natives tend to have similar skills and compete for the same jobs, thus driving down the native wage. The other view is that the services of immigrants and natives are not interchangeable, but rather complement each other. For instance, some immigrant groups may be unskilled but particularly adept at harvesting crops. Immigration then increases native productivity and wages because natives can specialize in tasks for which they are better suited.

The first view is more likely correct. Economists who have rejected this view on the basis of evidence have looked at somewhat superficial data. These economists speculated that if the services of natives and immigrants are interchangeable, natives should earn less in cities where immigrants are in abundant supply, such as Los Angeles or New York, than in cities with few immigrants, such as Nashville or Pittsburgh. Although natives do earn somewhat less in cities that have large immigrant populations, the correlation between the native wage and the presence of immigrants is weak. If one city has 10 percent more immigrants than another, the native wage in the city with the most immigrants is only 0.2 percent lower.

i'm not a libertarian but this piece does some justice to dispelling the myth of ''illegal immigrants and wages.

http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration.shtml

In 1989, the U.S. Department of Labor reviewed nearly 100 studies on the relationship between immigration and unemployment and concluded that "neither U.S. workers nor most minority workers appear adversely affected by immigration."

very detailed evidence about ''illegal'' immigration, over all wages continue to rise -- with of course complications in specific sectors.

http://are.berkeley.edu/courses/EEP39C/Immigration.htm
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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. And Smirky has probably looted the treasury much more than we know.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. He has and I've got a wonderful article that documents this.
unfortunately, I'm not at the right computer to access it and give you the link, but I fount it in the economy forum. If you undo all the number rigging that our government has engaged in for the last 45 years or so. We have real unemployment rate of over 13%, inflation >8%, and here's the kicker, a $3.5 trillion! annual deficit.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
66. You Betcha.
Everytime he's in WVA it makes one wonder - - that is where the $$ is. Last I heard, it might have been past the 100th visit.

Brinks on the job, would have been nice. By now, it appears its done on purpose but what do I know.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pretty much..
the American worker is now obsolete. That's the only way I see it at this point. I guess I'm just not as smart as those economic gurus out there who keep telling us this is all good.

:wtf:
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PVK Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. So we are just the market and the low-wage workers.
IOW, slaves.

They just need to reduce more of the population now...by starvation, disease, genocide, whatever.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Not even a market anymore. The only markets being discussed
in the boardrooms anymore are China and India, coincidentally the very locations of the assets looted from us.
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MrPrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. more "compliant" nations?
I won't bother with the 'soft money/hard money' rap and the obsession of 'fiat money'...

BUT this one: "They have transferred most of that wealth, along with the means of production to other, more "compliant" nations."

Your entire essay shows that one of the MOST compliant nations is in fact the US of A. If Ron Raygun had wraught all these economic changes, how come the US faired so poorly in the long run?

Canada (like others) are getting investment largely because of it's stability, fiscal management and socialized 'perks' like universal medicare which reduce corporate labor costs.

Among western nations, American workers rank very low--except in the 'cash at the end of the day' sweepstakes, which, given the 'wholly' privatized nature of the US economy, extra money/extra debt is necessary to buy 'private' goods and serivces at prices far far higher than anywhere else. The American worker has been very very compliant in his acceptance of lower expectations, a 'service-based' export model, union-busting and massive debt based largely on Military Keynesianism (the other Raygun legacy).





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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #11
88. Anyone who has worked abroad, knows American workers ROCK.
And several other nations have "nap time" in the middle of the day for a couple of hours. :shrug: Nice, huh?

American workers are focused, productive, discerning, well-educated and willing. If there's a large project that needs to be accomplished, I'd take a team of my good ole American buddies any day of the week. We're a country built by barn-raisers, and we've never stopped being that way. We pitch in together to move mountains.

It's the REPUBLICANS that put down American workers.
It's the REPUBLICANS that are shipping our jobs overseas.
It's the REPUBLICANS and their corporate masters that are encouraging illegal immigration.
It's the REPUBLICAN press and message that says Americans are all "welfare queens" and that we're useless -- so useless in fact that they "have to" bring thousands of people a year in from India to take our jobs.

The problem isn't with American WORKERS. It's with ANTI-AMERICAN REPUBLICANS, who wave their flags to try to pull the wool over their followers' eyes, while they trash our PEOPLE.

REPUBLICANS want to pay our kick-ass American workers pennies, and turn us into slaves. American workers ARE the LEADERS, the barn-raisers, that made this country great. Immigrants that came here and were assimilated LEARNED AND AIDED the barn-raiser mentality -- because THAT was when and where they were assimilated...working hard, shoulder to shoulder with other Americans, showing off their stuff, and competing in a friendly way (much like sports teams) to push the project forward. HEALTHY, prideful competition, NOT cut-throat, trash-your-fellow-teammate-to-make-yourself-look-good republican competition.

REPUBLICANS SUCK. This country needs to OUTLAW republicans and republican related attitudes.

:kick::kick::kick:
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
12. They will get the message
when the "Unwashed Masses" start climbing the walls of their gated communities. They will learn firsthand how Marie Antoinette felt!!
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. Considering a Bush has been on the GOP ticket in 6 of last 7 elections
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 02:49 PM by KansDem
I do believe you're correct.

Let me repeat: A member of the Bush family has been on the GOP ticket in 6 of the last 7 general elections. My wife, who first voted in 1976, has only seen one election in which a Bush wasn't running. And that was 1996 when the GOP ran Bob Dole as a sacrifice.

The wealthy have been well represented. They've gotten their money's worth.

It's all part of a plan to eliminate the middle class, social programs, the Constitution and democracy, and turn absolute control over to the financial elite.

Six of the last seven: It's no coincidence.

On edit: Actually, my wife saw two elections that didn't have a Bush on the GOP ticket: 1976 and 1996. But both of these times did have Bob Dole.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. The B*sh
family want to model themselves and America on their buddies who run monarchies in the ME.
Once you realise that most of what they do will start to make sense (although obviously it will be a fundamentalist christian version rather fundamentalist islamic).
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. Have you forgotten that the BFEE is descended from European royalty?
it was a story during the first reign of terror for about a week.
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CJCRANE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Yes
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 03:44 PM by CJCRANE
but European royalty do not promote religious fundamentalism, protect the oil industry at all costs and seek to create a nation of only two classes the have-mores and the have-nots.

on edit: then maybe they believe they believe they're entitled to rule over America with absolute power.
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, absolutely!
I cannot see an end to the current trend that is not essentially feudalism. A tiny ruling class, and a huge mass of serfs beneath them to do their bidding and exist at their discretion. This trend has been moving at a fairly rapid clip since the assassination of JFK, whether or not the two are related is a matter of personal persuasion.

The Reagan/Bush I years really did take some large steps forward toward this end. Clinton seemed to be a slow down in the pace, still moving forward just more slowly, and many things were put in place to make it much easier for the ruling class to have their way, NAFTA, welfare reform, the mere idea of national health care being demonized to the point of no return.

Now, Bush II, the government no longer exists to serve the people that pay for it, but rather it exists to serve the corporate mafia, and the wealthiest 5%. They unabashedly say so on a regular basis, and nobody seems to notice. People do understand, I think, that they cannot depend on the government to protect them from anything at all.

Have you contemplated that someday you, if you are not obedient enough, will be considered a terrorist/insurgent/unlawful combatant? :tinfoilhat:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Considered and concluded.
I have no doubt about it, but I'm going to be in good company.
See you in the camps. :tinfoilhat:
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adigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 07:00 AM
Response to Reply #14
72. I don't think it is hopeless quite yet
If we get a Democratic Congress, and a Democratic President, and they do the right thing: raise taxes on the ruling classes to where they were under Clinton, and we have a surplus again, as we did under Clinton, so we can pay down the debt as was planned before Junior came in with his tax cut for his buddies, then we can get our country moving along again.

Now, if the sheeple keep their Republican representatives and vote in John McCain, we are doomed. I don't think this is hyperbole - I cannot believe how far we have sunk in 5 years and cannot imagine what another 2 1/2 under Bush, and 4 years under another Republican president would do to us.

God help us.
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
16. We are truly living on borrowed time and a dream of being.................
...an economic power house. It's a dream those in power want to sustain as long as possible too, at least until they get every last resource in their possession.

It's only going to take one little push, such as someone tightening the oil supply, or some country calling in part of an IOU they hold on us, or any number of other possibilities. When that ripple hits, this country will instantly go from dream to reality. That is when we will instantly turn into a third-world economy and the results for us will not be pretty.

Only then will people wake up to the hazards of continuously diluting our work force, providing medical care for our own citizens and any other country who wants to dump its population on us, and so much more.

Personally, I don't think it's that far away and I don't think we will recover for at least a couple of generations, if ever.:cry:
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
21. both witnessing the end game..
.. and experiencing it.

And it aint nuthin nice....
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Prison States
The new world is a series of cattle pens. In one pen,
they feed the cows hormones and slop them out once
a week. In japanese pens, the cows are better fed,
but very racist. In the corporate pens, the prison
empire seeks to control its markets, as what is the
perfect market but a prison, where demand is constant,
and the victemization of corporate reductionism total,
that they can even afford to toss in free healthcare
for prisoners who do slave labour.

The prayer is that the whole corporate morass goes bankrupt
quick and takes the evil empire with it. Methinks the
prayer is right on target, unfortunate that the target
gets rather damaged, but the alternative is a global
thermonuclear war, and between the two, the suffering
of 300 million americans as the empire collapses will
be less than the suffereing of the 6+ billion human
beings in the global war that will check their power
otherwise.

Many prayers to the enlightened, wise and powerful,
that this unfettered wild bull in a china shop fall
asleep before it breaks anything tragic.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. To answer your question: Umm....YES.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. the party's over
The party's over
It's time to call it a day
They've burst your pretty balloon
And taken the moon away
It's time to wind up the masquerade
Just make your mind up the piper must be paid

The party's over
The candles flicker and dim
You danced and dreamed through the night
It seemed to be right just being with him
Now you must wake up, all dreams must end
Take off your makeup, the party's over
It's all over, my friend
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
37. If only we'd been invited.
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melissinha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
28. I do, however think that all Republicans are not part of this
game... they are so happy ot have power that they are letting the powerful pull this off, and for that, they should be ASHAMED. I really don't think Specter or Graham are part of this cabal, nto Hatch.... WAAAAAAAAYYY down the Hatch....
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. Yes, I think we will become a nation of elites or poor and
NOTHING in between. The middle class just ain't what it used to be as we slowly but surely lose pay and benefits and yes, our rights.

Ever since I read the post below I can't help but wonder if the ultimate goal of the BFEE is: United States + Mexico + Canada = United COUNTRIES of America or the North American Parliamentary Group or whatever in the hell they plan on calling it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=796414&mesg_id=796474

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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I assume that they'll keep a small middle class around...
including their toadies and shills who will continue to blow smoke up our collective ass(es).
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. That is "The Plan" that I've been looking for for years now.
I saw it in print form a long time ago, and have been trying to find it since. Ironically, the post doesn't provide a title and the link is no longer any good.
That is the real end-game, one world, ruled by the elite (about 7000 people), to pursue their dreams at our expense. Five powers to rule them all and in the darkness bind them.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
30. America will live on to see better days (soon)
I truly believe if you back up a few steps and look at what's going on...
you'll see the last gasps.. the violent death throes of conservative republicans
and fundamentist christianity. Everything has been pointing this way for the last century...
it's not that they are gaining power but more likely that they are getting backed into the corner.
These fascists (as with all fascists) are on their way toward extinction on the rubble heap of history.]
As they ought to.

Of course this is all debatable... and my half full glass may appear half empty from another angle.
Whatever... it's my hope and belief... and I'm sticking to it... hahahhahahahhaha.
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. I love your optimism :) n/t
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. It all depends what's in your glass :-)
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 04:06 PM by C_U_L8R
it makes me sad when DUers get discouraged or frustrated...
we ARE going to win this one
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
58. Not discouraged, just observant.
I have little doubt that the Democrats will make gains this November, I just don't think the current crop will make any difference. Too many Lieberman's, too few Kucinich's.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
31. There's a related post, "The Republicans ARE TRAITORS".
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
32. it's conservative, not new

Look, this variety of economic and political behavior started with the Virginia Land Company and has a name- colonialism. It has had corporate form from the very start. The predatory American corporation is the great surviving institution of the Colonial Age, into which all residues of monarchism, theocracy, caste/classism, slavery, aristocracy, genderism, and racism have retreated and built it up as a fortress.

As long as it worked for average white Americans- i.e. the people who were victimized by the system involved were largely black, Native American, Asian, or Latino, or recent undesirable European immigrants- and average white people could be the opportunistic preferred participants, it was widely called "Capitalism". Nowadays it passes for "free market capitalism", and substantial numbers of average American white people with the culturally ingrained desire to prostitute themselves and engage in grossest opportunism, aka Republicans, are no longer needed due to ever advancing technology.

All this whining about an America that we want to go back to because it benefited the right kinds of people (white blue collar and middle class, principally)...is conservative. That America also never really existed except perhaps for the arms buildup/WW2 reconstruction phase of the Cold War- it was built on a situational foundation, on a huge amount of one-time spending/misspending. We've now seen Republicans try to reimplement this economics three times- Vietnam, the 'Star Wars' Reagan era, and the first Bush years. It's cargo cultism of the worst kind.

The corporate elites have set the American working classes a challenge. It's: get educated and productive/creative and become a post-Industrial economy fully, re-industrialize carefully and succeed. Or try to re-create the Agrarian and Industrial Age and Colonial Age economy, of entitlements and uneducated labor- and undergo a decline into poverty and dieout.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. Not sure what your point is. The facts you point to are, indeed, true
and some of us have been trying to point it out for a long time. The formula for the realization of the American Dream (the real dream of liberty and self direction, not the consumerism that has replaced it in most peoples minds) is to expand it to include everyone, and the amerikan corporation, as you've defined it, is what has stood in the way since the beginning, and why the dream must be discredited, not just America.

The last two paragraphs is where you've lost me. I'm not whining, nor advocating a return to the "good old days that never were". Those of us on the bottom are, and have been, well aware of what is really going on. Though many aren't aware of the details, we live it every day.

The part about corporate elites setting obstacles makes no sense at all, especially in light of what has happened in the last ten years. Get educated? Where have you been? There are literally millions of highly educated, technically adept, highly skilled workers that are now working the counter at your local Starbucks. Be creative? We are the creative force that has brought all these toys to you, the problem is that corporations are vehemently anti-innovation. Innovation disturbs their profit models, and therefore, must be stifled at any cost. Has Microshit ever brought one single innovation to the software industry? No, they kill innovation and convince you that is how it should be.

Perhaps I've mis-interpreted your thoughts here. I would like to understand, so maybe you can elaborate.
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. okay
The part about corporate elites setting obstacles makes no sense at all, especially in light of what has happened in the last ten years. Get educated? Where have you been? There are literally millions of highly educated, technically adept, highly skilled workers that are now working the counter at your local Starbucks. Be creative? We are the creative force that has brought all these toys to you, the problem is that corporations are vehemently anti-innovation. Innovation disturbs their profit models, and therefore, must be stifled at any cost. Has Microshit ever brought one single innovation to the software industry? No, they kill innovation and convince you that is how it should be.

You see the individual trees clumped together, I'm calling the situation a forest. We're not actually in disagreement.

The corporate elites of the present do stifle the evolution of the economy and Microsoft is a perfect example. (It's been called 'the Ford of software' for a reason.) Microsoft started off as typical postindustrial business, then started doing things in an ever more industrial age (and now colonial, i.e. "outsourced") fashion.

I haven't thought much about how it's done, but the Microsofts of the world endure because of protectionisms of certain kinds. Someone is going to have to end these protectionisms eventually. Which takes political action against excessive corporate privilege, excessive copyright and intellectual property and patent rights. It also takes an economy with more stabilized and serious demand for these gizmos than we have now, the present is a market of continuously fueled fads and "upgrades".

The question is who is going to do this, and when, and how. How we all know, and who is obviously going to be the slowly building postindustrial workforce (which is not purely identical to tech workers, btw) once it creates its own leaders. The when is the tricky part.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. OK got it, just being dense today, and we are in total agreement
The when is a tricky variable, and the how is truly scary (at least from a historical perspective), I'm just sorry it has to be us that goes through it.
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
33. I fear you're right, but hope not...
I hope the actual case is that Bush is just the first President ever to not have the best interests of the country in mind.

I know you theorize that this has been going on for the last 25 years, but things were going quite well during Clinton's administration, and if it had continued, with a less environmentally unfriendly over-indulgence, we could have now been living in what America was supposed to be.

What I hope is that surviving Bush will be a testimony to the strength and resiliency of Americans.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
52. While I hate to disagree with anyone that is willing to take the time to
read my diatribe, the Clinton administration is a prime example of what is really going on. All of the accomplishment of his administration falls into one of two categories, pro-corporate sell-out of the people and their interests, or illusionary window dressing to placate the base.

Health-care: Hillary goes into closed sessions with everybody (Insurance, Big Pharma, Doctors, medical equipment manufacturers, etc.) except the patients represented, and comes out with a clusterphuck that had no chance at all of getting through the political process. This in the face the real answer, obvious to anyone that is honest enough to really look at why our system is so fucked up, the corporate extortionists. That is where the $ that should be going to those that need health services is going.

The Economy: Fortunately the rise of Information Technology gave the needed cover to yet another pro-corporate, anti-worker agenda. They said unemployment went down, they lied. They, like every administration since Kennedy, simply changed how it is counted to make it look like it was down. The hard fact is that if you were a victim of the "displacement" of the 80's, you were just as screwed in the 90's and, if you listen to the whispers in the halls of power, you might hear about the "permanent unemployment" numbers. The market boomed, not because of the .coms, but because of the influx of trillions of retirement dollars that were forced into the market through the demise of real retirement plans that were replaced by the 401(k). Don't think this is true? Ask someone that thought they were going to retire in '99 or 2000 or 2001 or 02, 03, 04. Where do you think all those wallyworld greeters in their 70's came from? Do you think they work there to get out of the house? What liberal, Democratic, principle was served by granting and continued re-authorizing of MFN status for China? Clinton was the number one cheerleader for NAFTA, remember the rising tide? Go look at some pictures of the Maquiladoras today. Are cars cheaper? No. Are the Mexican workers better off? No. Who has benefited from this scheme? Same with GATT and all of the other despicable crimes perpetrated on the people of the world in the name of "free enterprise".

Social programs: Can you say welfare "reform"?

And on and on and on. I don't intend this to be a bash Clinton post, but lets not fall into the "good old days that never where" trap, and acknowledge that the rise of The Corporate Party has progressed unimpeded through both Democratic and re:puke: administrations to the detriment of all but a very few.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
36. Unless we, the "rabble", start organizing ourselves to defend our own
interests, yes, this is the endgame and we lose.

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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
38. End game since New Deal: Concentration of Wealth and Power into
the hands of fewer and fewer people, worldwide.

You're right...Hard to argue with most of what you say.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #38
74. I don't think the End game started with the New Deal,
the End game started with the murder of JFK. Those shots were the physical start of the 'elites' attack on the people.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. End game?
No, I'd say the 'game' is just beginning.

These guys held-off until FDR died and they were able to buffalo Truman. They quietly moved in and began to resurrect the pre-FDR game.

By 1963, they felt they were strong enough to start the game and killed JFK, then MLK and Robert K.

LBJ, well he still had a little conscience, but he quit the 'game'. The Nixon, ho boy, he was in it up to his eye-balls. But he was busted.

Ford was and always has been on the dark side.

As for Carter, he tried to stop them but again he misunderestimated (to use a Bu$h term) and trusted. You know, if it's possible, I think he was too honest. Too good to be a DC politician.

Then Raygun, he was their wetdream come true. But it was actually Booosh 1 that was yanking the strings in both of Rayguns terms. Then there is Booosh's time in the sun.

Clinton? More cheap labor advocates, but in Dem clothing. Then Booosh II and we find ourselves at where we are today, well on our way back to the mercantile monopoly days of the 1890's.

How did we get here from the FDR times? I think it started in high school history class and the dumming down of education, specifically regimenting students and forcing ways to look at things into good little citizens heads. Messing with the kids ability to think independently.

The kids they couldn't fit in the mold? Well, they tried to kill us in Vietnam, did a pretty good job at that.

But the deal is this. The 'game' these monarch wannabees are playing have been running for thousands of years. They cannot win in the long run. They will be stomped flat again, just like a hundred of times before. In a way, they are stupid in that they keep trying to beat a dead horse yet they try and try somehow thinking it will be different this time when they get in power.

The thing I wonder is why we allow them to continue to live. It would be a simple thing to just do away with them and make sure they can never come back with their ideas, but we don't. I guess we just don't have it in us, to be like them. So the 'game' continues.
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DaveJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. There are ways they could get a permanent choke hold on us
As I mentioned earlier I think another major attack on the U.S. would put them over the top. While we're distracted * will sell the ports to the UAE. We would be persuaded to fork over what little money we have left to security companies to protect us internally. The few renegades we have left could be controlled given the improved communications technology we have today vs 100 years ago.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. You raise a good point. It always mystified me why, during the riots
in LA (the most recent ones), they were only about 2 miles from Beverly Hills, yet they just burned and looted the poorest parts of town. people:shrug:
FDR is another issue I'd love to get into, but that's another thread.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
43. AWESOME analysis. We have accepted bread and circuses,
Edited on Fri Mar-31-06 03:55 PM by WinkyDink
and now LAUGH at a show with BILLIONAIRE scions vs. indebted schmoes!!!
Including REV. MOON'S DAUGHTER!

To quote Bill Bennett: WHERE is the outrage?

As for the masses uprising, a la 1789, nope; TPTB have MUCH better weapons now.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
48. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. I resent that remark
America is her people, and having been born here I've met a lot of them, new ones and ones that have been here since birth, we are primarily very, very good people. We do not have a corner on the racist, bigot, warmongering market. It's the powers that be, a handful of folks who believe they should be royalty because of their Percy bloodline IMO, that need to go. I'm certain the rest of us could stay and easily find and make a prosperous peace with our fellow man in a heartbeat, left to our own devices.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. Oddly perhaps, I can, and do, agree with both of you.
The American Government has behaved despicably for most, if not all, of its history. OTOH the citizens of this country do tend to be well meaning, even if they are mostly ignorant of what their government does in their names.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
49. Pretty much sums it up for me...
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
57. make no mistake about it ...we are Fucked....
I'm 47 and despite working towards a pension for the last 25 years, I know beyond a doubt that some motherfucker has already spent it....there are plenty like me too....what we do when that time comes is God's guess......it may not be pretty.
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. nice guys always finishing last
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YouthInAsia Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
60. My mom went off on a rant today saying we've returned
to the time of the robberbarrons. I totally agree. The middle class os totally screwed.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
61. back even further. Nixon
took us off the gold standard and gave us worthless dollars and opened the door to China.
Even further back the Bushes etc backed Hitler in a quest for global domination.

But end games? Who knows, we seem to keep ratcheting tighter and tighter. Maybe it can go on for years more. I don't know.

Sometimes the anxiety is almost overwhelming, isn't it.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
62. We're changing from a dollar-based currency to Kleenex-based currency eom
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-31-06 11:57 PM
Response to Original message
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
64. Twice, power was wrested from the oligarchs.
1776
1932


Third time's a charm? :shrug:

My actuarial table tells me it will be in 2088. :cry:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #64
91. What about Teddy Roosevelt? He was a class traitor
of the worst sort, and screwed the Robber Barons pretty good.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
67. wow.... still recovering from that....
First may I say, Excellent Post!

And second, you have solidified my own feelings on the matter, simply and (almost) dispassionately.

Thanks!

:thumbsup:
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theobscure Donating Member (206 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 04:29 AM
Response to Original message
69. We gave them the rope for which to hang us
We gave them faith. The inability to eradicate religious faith from our conscious minds is all those who rule have ever needed. Faith has devalued our lives, denigrated our self worth, divided our wills, diminished our numbers, dampened our curiosity and ditched our capacity to reason. Their manipulation of our masses was no greater challenge than what a shepherd wangles from his herd.
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
70. If 'da puke bastards want MY Country, dey hafta pry it from my cold dead h
..... you get the drift. It may come to that, but that fat lady ain't sang yet and just cause this is their end game they have been planning for all this time doesn't mean they win by default.


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nonconformist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
71. I couldn't agree more. K & R. nt
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
73. We will have to hit rock bottom with this before anything is done
If anything can be done. If I'm right about that, then the soon the better.
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Danascot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
75. Wait, wait, are you saying
it's not enough to sell each other $4 coffee and home equity loans?
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
76. If the Repub mafia holds onto power through 06 and 08 through crooked
voting machines, and everyone pretends like nothing happened, then we will complete our transition into a full-on Ferdinand Marcos rich gated mansion robber barons and everyone else is a serf third world dump very quickly.
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
77. My only question
Is there actually a conscious effort by the ultrarich ruling elite to destroy the poor and middle classes? Or is what we're seeing simply the inevitable end result of both money and power being concentrated in the same people? That is to say, the rich are the powerful, and their only concern is to get richer. But are they consciously trying to kill us? I'm not sure, they very well may be. But even if they're not, the end result would likely be the same.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #77
85. Vast conspiracy? I doubt it. Agreed upon common goals
and an assortment of small conspiracies for narrow motives (i.e. Oil industry), leading to an unspoken conclusion? More likely IMO. You're also right about the end results.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
78. Absolutely.
As I have said repeatedly in the past,
the ONLY thing we have to look forward to
in our lifetimes, is watching the bushbots
come to their moment of reckoning with the
fact that they voted for their own destruction.

America, as we have imagined it our entire
lives, does not and can not exist in the
"new world order."

BHN
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
79. 1920's all over again. Dig a hole in your backyard
Edited on Sat Apr-01-06 09:49 AM by BullGooseLoony
and bury all your money in the next three or four years.

While you're at it, check out this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688119123/002-0413397-3238452?v=glance&n=283155

It's been almost 80 years since the Depression. This country goes in four-generation cycles. Same shit's happening all over again. It's all going to crumble.

Keep direct control of all of your money.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #79
81. Convert it to gold first... Money's going to be worthless soon...
As the dollar keeps sinking with this president!
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
80. Smedley Butler, where are you now when we need you!
We need more of his kind to stand up to thoses fascists trying to take over now! He kept this from happening back in his time.

How long before we're going to be measured as part of the ruling class or not if we have pictures of Mussolini over our fireplace!
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. They won't let a hero arise like Smedley Butler again.

They've got the "swift boat vets" for that now.
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
82. Quite possibly it is an endgame-the new "USA" might be in South America.

The people of South America are finally waking up to these assholes, just as we in the USA are letting them take total control of everything here.

It's quite possible in about 50 years, we'll be the new "wetbacks" trying to sneak into their country for a better life.
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-01-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
84. Well, they need to finish the Homeland Concentration Camps
And get the Slave Labor production going.

Arbeit macht frei.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
86. It's not just the US, all of Western civilization is disintergrating
Edited on Sun Apr-02-06 06:26 PM by Odin2005
Some of what this web site seems is BS (a bit too socially conservative for my taste and seems somewhat too universalisitic than pluralistic from using "Civilization" in the singular instead of in the plural), but there is a lot of interesting points:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.darkage.fsnet.co.uk/WorldContradictions.htm

Transnational corporations transcend borders and find it easy to defy national governments, avoiding tax and regulation. The biggest firms can practically dictate policy to weaker nations.

The world's money supply is now out of the hands of any government, which has been a boon to organised crime. Private financial interests have access to huge funds that overwhelm the resources of individual governments.

Existing countries are breaking up. About a third of the world's nations face some kind of separatist demand.

Frustration with existing political institutions is helping the popularity of politicians who present themselves as outsiders while embracing authoritarian and nationalistic platforms.

Private security firms are undergoing a boom, indicating the failure of the political authority to guarantee order.

Gated communities (residential areas surrounded by 'city walls' with guarded gates) are increasingly common, even in some developed nations. These also reflect government failure to keep order.

Despite statistics suggesting great economic growth, people in many countries live worse than they did a few decades ago. According to the UN there were 70 countries in which average incomes in 1995 were less than in 1980.

Absolute living standards may have grown overall, but the gap between rich and poor has expanded massively.

In the rich countries, there is evidence of penny-pinching in such areas as school meals or the pay and conditions of public officials. This is dressed up as thrift and economic good sense.

Private and public debt has grown, so that there is a growing gap between fantasy (debt) and reality (productive activity).
The financial markets are getting larger, more complicated and less stable. Pension funds are huge pools of footloose capital that slosh about the system exaggerating economic movements.

In Europe, pensions represent a growing burden that will become acute in the coming decades and that has been said to be capable of bankrupting the continent.

The government bureaucracy has grown far faster than population. It is not entrepreneurial. Some government expenditure is beneficial, providing order and regulating economic activity, but the developed countries seem to be moving into an increasingly parasitic regime.

Throughout the world, unemployment is higher than it has ever been, indicating a failure of entrepreneurship. Large numbers of people are on sick pay for stress-related illness.

Although people generally imagine that technology is changing with increasing rapidity, the great days of innovation are long over. Modern gadgets are mostly superficial and do not compare with things like radio, aircraft and the motor car.

Space exploration is failing to live up to its promise. Some technologies, like genetic engineering and nuclear power, are failing to make headway in the face of active opposition. They are condemned as unsafe despite being far safer than more familiar things that people accept every day.

The quality of education is increasingly under threat. Teachers are becoming hard to recruit and the sanctions they used to maintain order in the classroom have been all but completely removed. Even at university level, among the staff as well as the students, there is evidence for deteriorating standards. Literacy is declining and science courses, which pass on some of this civilisation's most characteristic knowledge, are proving hard to fill.

The 1980s saw individualism promoted as a political creed, and selfishness and social irresponsibility were almost held up as virtues. This may have been toned down lately, but selfishness persists in less ideological forms. Putting oneself first is seen to be desirable and something to be proud of.

The amount of effort people invest in helping each other has been declining (although this sociological finding is disputed). People are less likely to socialise with their neighbours.

Citizenship has been reinterpreted as being about rights rather than duties. People are no longer bound together in a framework of mutual and morally constraining duties, but set against each other in a framework of competitive and morally liberating rights. They are encouraged to feel aggrieved and seek redress.

Selfishness is evident in the growth of personal injury litigation. Far from accepting suffering for the good of the community, people do not even expect to suffer for what they have largely brought upon themselves.

Welfare entitlements are being cut back. Museums are less likely to be free. Philanthropy is in decline.

The individualist philosophy dictates that the star players, in business, football or the arts, receive a larger share of the rewards.

Every kind of social pathology--suicide, alcoholism, murder, mental disorder--has been on the rise over the last twenty years. These reflect the alienation, purposelessness and generally low respect for other human beings that go with individualism.

Laws and taxes are increasingly invaded around the world, showing a sense of irresponsibility towards fellow citizens. Corruption among public servants is on the increase. In every walk of life, dishonest and venal behaviour is increasingly familiar. There has also been a rise in general crime.

Technologies like recorded music and the home video have replaced more communal activities. The internet brings people together from all corners of the world but reduces the need for them to interact with their own household.

There has been a weakening of the bonds between adults and youngsters. The family, the starting point for all social ties, is being discarded and downgraded. Illegitimate births have been increasing almost everywhere. The breakdown of the family is related to a whole host of other social defects, such as child poverty, child abuse, and juvenile crime.

Competitive individualism has encouraged the notion that the poor are to blame for their failure.

Separatist sentiments threaten what once seemed to be homogeneous populations. Most of these movements are barely a hundred years old. They are self-consciously regressive and not lingering hangovers from the past.

Racial conflict is rising throughout the world. In many European countries, right wing parties are thriving again.

People still need spiritual sustenance but they are finding it in a myriad of cults rather than in a communal church. Individualism has spread to religion.

Western civilisation is being delegitimised as hopelessly oppressive and corrupt, being blamed for racism, sexism and imperialism. Past heroes, who made the west what it is, are demonised. Traditional institutions are less likely to be seen as a source of pride and more as bastions of shameful elitism.

The United States is increasingly less keen to bear the costs of global hegemony.

The coherence of the western bloc is in question, with NATO being weakened by Europe-only defence initiatives.

Contrary to common perception, the interventions in Kosovo and against Iraq's occupation of Kuwait reveal the limitations on western power. These operations against small, weak states both required a significant fraction of NATO assets and did not end with the west achieving its original demands.

While the west has recently used aerial bombing to achieve (apparent) successes, it has had a hard time dealing with small, out-of-control militias, in Africa and elsewhere, that do not abide by known rules of warfare.

Subordinate regions, especially East Asia, are increasingly ready to challenge western authority. Japanese people are dissatisfied with their status. China is growing rapidly in capabilities and self-assertion.

The world is not standing still. Non-western countries are continually learning from western operations, developing their arsenals and tactics so as not to be the Serbias or Iraqs of the future.

There is a less easy peace throughout the world. Many countries in Africa and elsewhere are tearing themselves apart while the western powers make little or no effort to intervene.

Private soldiering services are a growth industry in an increasingly unstable world.

The United Nations is no substitute for a peacemaking hegemony based on geopolitical power. It has no independent authority and no military forces other than those that are loaned to it. Its members can apply opprobrium rather than force. The UN could not discipline the US and other prominent members.

The UN is essentially a way of leveraging American power--instead of dominating the world directly, the US dominates the UN agenda, which is an easier task. NATO, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund operate in a similar way.

Western technologies have spread to every corner of the planet, eroding the west's advantage. Information technologies, which are commercially and militarily important, are inherently cheap and ubiquitous. They are also peculiarly vulnerable to small-scale, terroristic groups.

Nuclear weapons are beginning to proliferate. The US and China are working on more usable forms of nuclear wepaons. The enthusiasm for missile defence shows that nuclear war is perceived as a returning threat.

In relative terms, i.e. taking into account population size and overall national product, most countries are less economically interdependent today than they were in the nineteenth century. A proliferation of regional common markets has made trade more compartmentalised, less global.

The west's prosperity is increasingly based on credit and the entrepreneurship of others. Some countries are losing faith in western credit-worthiness.

Crises in Russia and East Asia have revealed deep strains in the system of international finance. The world may have bounced back from recent threats of economic meltdown but George Soros argues that this has only left the underlying situation deeply unsound.
Businesses are treating the liberalisation of trade (removal of tariffs and of restrictions on capital movement) as an opportunity to get rich quick. Instead of creating jobs in great new industries, they export old jobs to where labour is cheap. The trends that critics denounce as 'globalisation' are really attributable to this lack of international entrepreneurship.

The economic co-operation zones inhibit trade as much as promote it. Like Imperial China, the European Union imposes safety restrictions and standardisation in a way that stamps out diversity, initiative and originality. Its Common Agricultural Policy quite deliberately pays farmers to destroy crops and leave land idle.

There is an underlying tide of protectionism throughout the world, despite the existence of the World Trade Organisation. Tariff barriers have fallen dramatically but trade is restricted by quotas, technical standards, and health and safety regulations. Trade sanctions are an increasingly popular instrument.

The wealth gap between the richest and poorest nations is large and growing larger. The third world's relative poverty is a recent phenomenon and is by no means inevitable.

Despite decades of concern with development, at the United Nations, World Bank and other organisations, little progress has been made and poverty, famine and civil strife persist. Western aid has been of questionable value and motivation, being used as an instrument of foreign policy and with the real beneficiaries being western contractors.

The poor countries now owe enormous sums to the rich. They have little to show for the massive influx of funds, which were largely stolen by dictators or spent on white elephant projects. All the major debtors are in default. Debt forgiveness helps the western financial institutions by giving them a face-saving way out of the situation created by their own ill-judged lending decisions, at the expense of western taxpayers. It does not help the third world populations for whom debt is not forgiven completely but simply made less ludicrously disproportionate.

The long-standing tendency for the size of social units to increase has stalled. Despite their membership of the European Union, France, Britain and Germany show no signs of merging into a common form with a common language and common tastes. Countries may be queuing up to join the EU, but not to lose their national identities--some aspirants (e.g. Slovakia) have only just broken away from larger units.

Associations that have bound nations together across cultural boundaries are becoming less convincing, and nations are reverting to type. America's ties with Japan, South Korea and Pakistan are all weakening.
Relations between nations at the United Nations have become increasingly conflictual as membership has grown.

The spectacle of Muslims allying with the west to turn back Iraq's occupation of Kuwait suggested international cohesion. However, Muslim populations were actually equivocal about western involvement despite the victim being Muslim as well as the aggressor.
Ethnic conflict has been rising steadily around the world. Old enmities are flaring up--Greek/Turkish; Malay/Chinese; Islamic/Christian; Arab/Israeli.

East Asians are growing resentful at the patronising treatment doled out by the west, while China and Japan are increasingly serious rivals.

Contrary to popular assumption, the spread of democracy and the free market does not make countries inherently pro-western. When the west seemed all-powerful, countries did indeed adopt its values as they adopted its techniques. Yet they have no desire to be permanently subordinate and they have been gaining renewed confidence in promoting their own cultural values.

The west's ability to apply moral pressure in the international system is undermined by its transparent hypocrisy. Its ethical record is deplorable, not only in the era of colonialism but also more recently when it has tolerated oppressive regimes so long as they pursue policies broadly favourable to western interests and destabilised popular ones for not doing so.

A mutual enmity between the Islamic and Christian worlds is increasingly felt on both sides. Westerners regard Muslims as brutal, violent and repressive. Muslims, with arguably greater justification, have much the same view of the west. Islam is not inherently extremist. Its modern fundamentalism is a form of cultural resistance.

There is a divergence of interest between relatively rich and poor nations. As Francis Fukuyama observes, people in rich countries seem to care more about baby seals than mass starvation in Africa. Aid is shrinking as a proportion of national product. As the disadvantaged countries become better off in absolute terms, their ability to defy the west is growing and the clash of interests has potentially serious consequences.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #86
89. Outstanding post. nt
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pinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-02-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
87. No.
We are not witnessing the end game of America.

The "class warfare" model presupposes a collapse and ignores the depth and resiliency the American economy, labor and society in general, imho.

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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #87
90. Not the end of America, but the abandonment of America by
the corporations and the ruling class that controls them, in favor of the larger emerging economies of Asia. I don't believe this strategy will work in the long run as they are operating under many false assumptions, but the result here will be the same.

Class warfare is a misnomer, IMO, as it implies a conflict between two participants. If only one side is engaged in the struggle, is it still a war?

My question is whether this is the last cycle of looting, or is there enough left to justify another boom-bust shearing of the flock? Before you answer, you might want to look at this;
http://www.weedenco.com/welling/lilogo.asp
Hardly a radical publication and the numbers are :wow: especially the real deficit. :scared:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-03-06 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
92. One more factor to consider; While major corporations have reported
record profits year after year, there has been virtually no investment in infrastructure, in conjunction with continued massive layoffs and contraction of domestic production facilities. If they were preparing for any future in this country, does this make sense?
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