How Much is Illegal Immigration Costing

[stepnw1f]

American Tax Payers? Are there any stats out there?

We know how much the billionaires are costing us everytime they go bankrupt. So let's compare that with illegal immigrants.

[Haole Girl]

1. Here are some stats:

They look a little old, but it may give a start:

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

[napi21]

3. They've failed to include at least one figure, and one I suspect is

very large! The people who are paid in cash off the records. I KNOW there are many because I saw them waiting on the corners in DT San Antonio each AM. Contractors would drive up, a group of guys would jump into the bed and off they'd go. At the end of the day, they'd get paid and returned to the same corner. Same thing happens in DT Atlanta, and most likely lots of other larger cities. They're taken to construction sites, landscaping jobs, and who knows what else.

I would guess that wasn't included in the calculations you linked to because there's no way to know how many people are in that catagory.

[Cleita]

17. So if these guys are doing a day's work for little pay

how are they costing anyone anything? It's not like they are taking money for nothing.

[napi21]

19. IF that's all they did, you're right! But in most cases, it's not.

People who employ workers under the table have NO workers comp insurance, the employees have no insurance of their own because they can't afford it, and the employers don't pay any attention to OSHA regs or worker safety! People get hurt on the job, WHO PAYS for that? You and I do!

You don't understand. The problem isn't the worker who's working for under the table wages, or the illegal gatting paid cash each day and ramains invisible, or the illegal who gives a fake SS # and is contributing to the SS system and getting no benefits. IT'S THE DAMN EMPLOYERS WHO ARE BREAKING THE LAW!!!!!!

Our Congress isn't willing to confront that! That's the real problem!!!!

[Cleita]

22. You've bought the neo-con line on this.

Unscrupulous people who hire desperate people under the table should be heavily penalized for this, but they are not because there are no enforcible laws to do it. And when you paint all immigrants as working under the table with that broad brush of yours be aware of the fact that most of the steadily employed do not. They pay taxes like anyone else and may even get health benefits. Be aware also that many Americans engage in the same practice of working under the table often at second jobs. If you are going to focus on this then make sure your backup stats and studies reflect the true demographics.

If there are no studies or stats for this then maybe some investigative reporter types should get in there and dig up the dirt. Just saying so isn't good enough and these points seem to have been gleaned from conservative and business journals who don't seem to have any real figures and studies to back them up.

Also, anecdotally, having spent a good part of my time when my husband was alive in emergency rooms with him, the indigent people who were treated there cut across the board from homeless to working poor, white, black and maybe immigrant because none of those people have insurance. So don't blame just one class of poor people for what is a breakdown in our system.

[napi21]

25. There are absolutely enforceable law against hiring illegals!

I know that! I worked for a company in two different states. SC and TX...same company. We were extremely vigilant on making sure the info on the I9 was correct! Hiring an illegal is a CRIME! Nobody is enforcing it! Surprise, surprise! All the people in Washington try to protect their $$ source,, so the crime goes unpunished and uninvestigated!

It's USING the undocumented people! If you really care about the illegal immegrants, you'd push for law enforcement to protect them.

[Cleita]

27. Yes, and who is going to do it?

Not this Congress and White House and most likely none in the future. Because every time the issue comes up the laws get watered down to protect the corporate interests behind them. What labor needs to do is bond with labor in unions against the exploiters instead of trying to blame the immigrants for all the problems of labor collectively.

This divide and conquer scheme has no doubt been handed down from board rooms in the agricultural and service industries so you don't band together to fight this together.

[El Fuego]

32. They consume social services but do not pay taxes

Their children place a burden on our schools. The illegal population puts a strain on law enforcement (they broke the law coming in here, they really don't care about our laws.) Prisons in areas with high illegal populations are overburdened because they house a disproportionate number of illegals.

WE ALL PAY.

[napi21]

2. I wouldn't know where to beging to calculate that.

There are so many different costs that go into that number, and most are nearly impossible to get.

[stepnw1f]

4. Thanks

That's what I thought, but wanted to ask anyways to be sre. Next time I hear the argument that it costs us, I can easily ask for proof. Then I can point to corporate crime and the military indistrial complex. The cowards in this country seem intent in gobbling up myth rather than face facts and do something accordingly. Nah... let's beat up on the brown people instead... it's easier.

[joemurphy]

5. Here's an article I found from Business Week

http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/apr2006/pi20060407_072803.htm

I think you have to be careful about what the statistics are (for a lot of the reasons mentioned in earlier threads) and also who is dishing them out.
The Center for Immigration Studies and FAIR are biased against immigration. La Raza is biased in favor of it. Sourcing has to be weighted accordingly.

[mandyky]

6. And how much would it cost

to track down and deport all these "illegals"? We can not afford that either.

I think we better enforce the laws we have on the books, before we start "dreamin that impossible dream"!

[stepnw1f]

7. I Agree

How about pressuring Mexico to lift wages in their country and adopt a Progressive Tax system, since it has proven to work for us, until Repblicans snuck into office and changed things without permission.

[sam sarrha]

8. dont forget the $30 Billion sent home to Mexico annually..

[serryjw]

11. Don't forget suppression of wages

I talk to these people all day long. Americans are getting the short end, especially in construction related industries.

[sam sarrha]

13. i used to live in El Paso, had to speak spanish, good pay was $6 hr, and

then the Mexican gangs that controlled the companies hiring thru terrorisn would run you off if you were white.. threaten you and hurt you car to get rid of you..

[serryjw]

14. Contractors and construction workers

are telling me the immigrants are costing them 40-50% suppression of wages.

[Ksec]

9. Simply enforce laws already out there

Nothing more needs done.

If they did anything to change existing laws, it should be to put these employers in prison for a month or so. Dry up jobs, dry up illegal immigration. Its costs are too much and we just dont have it right now. First we need to fix problems internally. Then we can help others.

[spindrifter]

10. Even if there are costs

in some areas such as working off the books and the remittances sent to Mexico--which are even greater than Mexico´s oil income, the turn-over of the dollars spent here by immigrant workers is phenomenal. Think of the sales taxes that are spent. I am just not concerned by people carping about the so-called cost of immigration to the rest of us.

[madmunchie]

12. How would you get stats of the supression of wages?

How would you get stats on the ramifications on the families that have to live on those suppressed wages? Such as the effects on marriages, childrens childhood years, children's chances of going to college, families healthcare, or lack thereof because of employers able to give less in benefits because illegals will do the work for less money and no benefits.

How about the ripple effect on the suppression of wages starting at the border states and then traveling away from them? People talk about construction being directly effected. Well down by the border states and where there is no union and many illegals to do the work at a rock bottom rate, the difference in wages could be $20.00/hour plus having benefits to not having them. The difference being middle to upper middleclass and poverty level. How do you measure those stats? The employers take advantage of the situation in every way. They hire illegal immigrants for cheap labor, use illegal immigrants to drive down wages as well as benefits to the American worker.

The illegal immigrants are the newest form of slave labor. It amazes me to see people that are treated like slave labor forced to live in the shadows marching the U.S. streets to be able to STAY and continue this atrocity. They don't seem to realize the negative message that they are sending to the American Public like, we want to stay here, we have the right to pull the rug out from under your feet by screwing with your wages by bidding for your jobs at cheaper rates and we have the right to break your law and be pardoned. So when it comes back to bite them I won't feel too badly for them. Usually when you ask for a favor (pardon) you have the dignity to use some discretion and ask with humility not just DEMAND the favor.

Look we are all getting screwed here by the fatass slobs in the Federal Government and employers. The employers should be put behind bars and the borders should be secure - - -PERIOD.

[serryjw]

15. DUers are outraged by outsourcing

but not outraged by insourcing being caused by millions willing to work for far less money.

[madmunchie]

16. So very true!

[QC]

20. That's because outsourcing primarily affects middle-class professionals,

while insourcing primarily affects blue-collar workers. DUers are, if we are to believe the income polls that pop up from time to time, a pretty affluent bunch. So, it's hardly surprising that more would feel directly affected by outsourcing.

[serryjw]

21. WOW! I thought we were the defenders of the labor party?

Silly me!

[QC]

24. Things aren't real until they affect the middle class.

Didn't you know that? :silly:

[serryjw]

26. I'm not sure how to find out

but I would bet the lower your income the less you vote. They are just so disenfranchised, they have given up. We know WHO VOTES but we don't KNOW WHO DOESN'T vote and WHY.

In 2006 we are eliminating precinct voting for 50 area voting locations in Denver. I walk 1 block to my church now....What hapens when seniors/physically challenged have to get on a bus? $3.00 is a lot money to some people.

[Cobalt Violet]

28. Most DUer aren't part of the 30 Million Americans working in poverty.

Most aren't part of the Millions more Americans working even near poverty.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=921448


We do how ever have Duers who are working in poverty. Just not many.

[Berserker]

18. A few stats here

No one has posted that these stats are wrong but they posted that this site is not pro illegal immigration.
http://www.firecoalition.com/

* There are currently at least 12 - 15 Million illegal aliens in the U.S. (Ref)

* 8% of those employed in the U.S are illegal aliens (Ref)

* 84 California Hospitals have closed their ERs between 1994 and 2003

* Illegal immigration costs CA taxpayers $10.5 Billion each year (Ref)

* <6% of day laborers entered the country legally(Ref)

* In 1954, Pres. Eisenhower's Operation Wetback deported 1,300,000 illegal aliens in 4 months with 700 BP agents

* No. of companies fined for hiring illegal aliens:
2001 - 141 companies
2002 - 73 companies
2003 - 15 companies
As of May 2004 - 1 company

* No. of employer investigations in U.S.:
1992 - 7,053
2002 - 2,061

* No. of arrests on job sites in U.S.:
1992 - 8,027
2002 - 451

* No. of U.S. employers fined
1992 - 1,063
2002 - 13

* Illegal alien costs to federal budget:
Medicaid - $2.5 B
Uninsured treatment - $2.2 B
Food assistance - $1.9 B
Federal Prison - $1.6 B
Aid to schools - $1.4 B
Other - $800 M
Total - $10.4 B

* 33% of America's prison population are non-citizens

* 36-42% of illegal aliens are on welfare

* In Los Angeles:
95% of outstanding murder warrants are for illegal aliens
66% of outstanding fugitive felony warrants are for illegal aliens

* In 1999, Pennsylvania's cost to incarcerate illegal aliens was $13.3 million

* Nationwide, the cost to incarcerate illegal aliens is approx. $2 Billion annually

* Nationwide, approx. 400,000 illegal aliens who have committed further crimes, and have been given a deportation order are "whereabouts unknown"

[Cleita]

23. This looks like your thinly disguised

white supremist hate site.

Look at the organizations they link to

http://www.firecoalition.com/advocategroups.shtml

I especially like the anti-ACLU link.

On edit: Also the people who made this website don't seem to want to say who they are.

[Berserker]

30. You don't know

shit about me and to call me a white supremacist and that I'm thinly disguised is a real well thought out post. Just because someone don't agree with you on Illegal Immigrants they are called white supremacist or racist. It's people like you need to wake the fuck up and take a look at what it does to some people while you are more than likely setting well protected from anything that the illegals can do like take your job away. What are you doing for the Illegals besides running your mouth on a forum? Show me where these facts are wrong? I will listen I never published them on that site. Like I said when I posted them no one has come forward with the facts to refute them. Just some whinny ass bullshit and accusations like you posted.
Oh and when you attack people with big words like supremacist at least learn how to fucking spell it.

[Cleita]

31. Did I call you a white supremist?

I said that the website you posted seemed to be a thinly veiled one considering the English only links they are tied to as well as the anti-ACLU link and the fact that they aren't telling you who they are. Remember we attack the idea not the person and in no way did I attack you.

However, if you feel that you fall into that category and want to self-describe yourself as such no one can change that. It's up to you.

Incidentally, speaking of attacks, as a rule it's considered bad form to attack a poster's spelling and grammar unless it's a site for writers.

[Berserker]

34. When anyone has this said to him or her

"This looks like your thinly disguised" You can expect a post in return that opposes your shallow view. I posted a link and asked the findings to be refuted. As of yet you have not refuted these claims and only posted a rebuttal to your accusations.
The link came from this site http://www.wehirealiens.com/default.asp
I firmly believe in what this site is trying to do. If you do not believe in punishment for the employers what category do you fall into?

[nonconformist]

29. Here is a link with some statistics

http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/immigrat/

According to this, there is a $9 billion annual discrepancy between the benefits and cost, and a $16 billion taxpayer burden.

[AzDar]

33. Between outsourcing and 'insourcing', the Middle Class hasn't a chance.