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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:54 AM
Original message
I may leave.
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 06:55 AM by lildreamer316
QUALIFYER: FOR MY CHILD'S SAKE.

But, you say, how could that be right? Wouldn't your child think you are a coward? Etc. etc.

Here's how I see it. IF it gets to the point that I think the idea of democracy and personal freedom is, for the time being, unsalvagable, I will retreat to one of the fledgling democracies in Brazil or Peru or maybe a more established one in northern Europe, so that the quickly fleeting all-important FORMATIVE years of my child's development are spent somewhere where he can get the RIGHT ideas of how this is SUPPOSED to be done. I will go somewhere where I am free to teach him my beliefs, or no belief at all, without ANY interference from the state. Where I can get him an education that is based on SCIENTIFIC principles; not religious myths. Where he has a chance to grow up with a free mind, an inquisitive mind, an inclusive attitude; a realization that there are intelligent people outside of his country. I want him to be able to EXPERIENCE democracy in action where the people still have SOME effect in its' working.

Sorry if you think that's cowardly, I think it is the least I can do for my child; and the next generation of fighters for the true American way. I promise, he will know what America stood for, and that she almost fulfilled her bright promise-and may still, someday. Maybe he will help her do that............but it is MY job to give him the foundation to do so, WHATEVER IT TAKES.

I don't really care if you think I'm a coward, I've got more important things to do. Obviously.
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Taxloss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think you're a coward.
But I do think that it might be a more valuable education for your kid to raise him to see the problems and injustices in America's system, and to want to work to resolving them. Sadly, all democracies are flawed - and I think the next generation of American campaigners should have that full connection with the country that they are tasked with saving.

It is, however, your choice and your child, so it's up to you.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. I hope
that what you see, the fact that I would even be able to show him flaws ("there's nothing wrong with our system! And you can't tell your child any different or you will be punished!") will happen...if things improve somewhat I do not think I will have to leave. But it is quite possible we will descend into a very controlled state....that is what I am worried about.
We'll see; I'm not giving up yet.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. If I were in your shoes and had the opportunity
I sure would. In a NY minute.

The US doesn't have a very bright future- and the far right is only part of the reason for that.
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. I might too
Canada is looking mighty good right about now.
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FloridaPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. You're no more of a coward than the Jews that left Germany
before & during WW2 or the millions of immagrints that come to our country. One of their main reasons is for a better life for their children. So their children can have a future that is denied in their ouw country. It takes a LOT of guts to move to a foreign country. It isn't easy. Especially if you go to one where English isn't the national language.

It's pretty obvious the gov't of the USA has spent the last 50-60 years destroying our nation as we knew it. It will not be pretty when the "bills come due" for terror that our gov't has done in the name of "self-defense of the economy". Best of luck to you and your family.
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SlavesandBulldozers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. coward
just kidding. i agree totally.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. Obviously you do care or you wouldn't be advertising you're
intent. So you're gonn do WHATEVER IT TAKES! Then do it you do not need my permission or blessing.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Just showing some support
for some ppl who posted here earlier about the fact that they were upset about being called coward for wanting to leave.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Argh!!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. I plan on taking my boys out of this country
as soon as I can and for the same reasons as you. It is not cowardly to want a future for your children. The do not have one here.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. I can't say as I blame you
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 07:08 AM by DemonFighterLives
But I wish you would stick it out. We have more power in numbers.
Don't let them grind you down!
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. We are ALL connected
I understand the thought behind leaving. I've entertained the notion myself. My problem with going is that since America is dependent on many other countries and they on us it would be disastrous if this country falls. I think a domino effect would then ensue. The only places with a chance would be smaller countries and places that weren't as dependent on others. Personally, I'd find a backwoods retreat and stay there for the next 30 years and then peak out to see what really occurred.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. You are right
in many ways; I just am hoping that if America descends into chaos of a sort, that it would not "domino" too much until it righted itself. It's all a gamble.........
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yawn, I don't think you're a coward.
I don't care. I'm utterly bored with this stupid little spat about the virtues of leaving vs. the virtues of staying. It's about as important to me as an announcement that you took a shit this morning.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. ...
Why bother posting then or even reading for that matter? So you could feel good about how "superior" you are? That is all it looks like from here. Sorry but that was out of line, imo.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I posted to express
what I think. Why else does anyone post on DU? The question why post is always a red herring.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I wondered if it was just to
say something mean? :shrug: I could have misunderstood.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
28. I tend to agree with you
Is it hip now to try to garner sympathy and not be called a coward to have someone post here that they are "leaving"?

I don't care - this happens all the time. Since when did we create our OWN PERSONAL POLITICS at DU anyway? It's kind of funny actually, we are a country onto ourselves with our own political strife!
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. I'm sorry it's boring to you, perhaps you're bored because you have
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 08:32 AM by converted_democrat
the safety of a home to flee to outside of the country.

"I don't care. I'm utterly bored with this stupid little spat about the virtues of leaving vs. the virtues of staying. It's about as important to me as an announcement that you took a shit this morning."

People are discussing this issue for a reason.. Many are scared of just how bad it could get, and they want to keep their family safe.. I'm sure it's easy to be bored with a topic, when you no longer have to worry about it one way or the other, since you have a house outside the country. Many here are trying to make important decisions here.. Decisions you no longer have to worry about..



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=346107#352404

Post #'s 76,78, 81, 83
Your post about having a house outside of the country was deleted because there was some pretty nasty things things said in it, but if you look at the posts below, you can see where a couple people quoted it, before it was pulled..
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Americanism is spreading like a cancer.....
Europe has wal marts now...
The US is spreading *ahem* Freedom (read - Sicko christian consumerism) around the globe. Corporations are GLOBAL.

You can run, but you can't hide.

Actually, my wife and I have talked about leaving the US. Our son, our only son, is 10 and we will not give him to the PNAC junta for thier perpetual war.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
17. People move from country to country all the time....
Some permanently, some just for a while. Please spare us the drama. The jackbooted Nazis are NOT at the door. But you are NOT a coward for leaving. It's quite possible that you & your child might happier elsewhere. But don't look down on people raising their children in the USA--quite a few of them are up to the challenge.

Rather than thinking of running away, please focus on where you might go. Do you have family or friends elsewhere? Do you have job skills that will transfer? Or--is money not a problem for you? Have you visited your possible new home(s)? Can you speak the language?

Please calm down & make some serious plans. However, you will not find perfection anywhere.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:25 AM
Response to Original message
18. Why not Cuba or Venezuela?
:shrug:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Lucy is my favorite psychiatrist
:rofl:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
20. A family's wellbeing comes first.
I have a backdoor plan I'm putting into place. Better safe than sorry.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
22. Why don't you just move north?
I can understand why you might want to leave, but I notice from your profile you live down south.

If you live in a very blue area, some of the personally intrusive stuff -- like the forcing of religion down your throat -- happens "over there".
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Phrogman Donating Member (940 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. Normally I'm just a lurker here
But for this post let me respond, I left Texas to live here on Negros Island in the Philippines. Its my Wifes home provence. I would strongly suggest that anyone with a desire to live outside the US should give it a test run for at least several months before making a permanent move.
Sometimes it sounds easy, but for some people the novelty runs out quickly and it can be very expensive, not to mention embarrassing, to have to move back to the States after shipping all your goods over to another country, and telling everybody you're leaving for good.
But if you got what it takes to relocate and prosper, more power to you.
I'm very happy with my decision to leave. I also have children and I was also thinking of what would be best for them.
And they just love it here on the island.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Welcome, Good Advice - and a request for both the "leaving" and the "gone"
You can still help take back our (once-great) nation. Wherever you are.

www.democratsabroad.org

--
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
24. I understand, but I'll stay.
I have grown children who have children of their own, so I will stay because they do not have the means to leave, also if it comes down to a fight, then I'd rather be here to fight for what I believe
in.

In WWII, German Jews did leave Germany, unfortunately they didn't get far enough away, those that were able to escape to other Western European countries, just got picked up when those countries were invaded by Germany.

Even if you and others leave, what makes you think that a US dictatorship won't start invading other countries to the north and south to secure it's borders and to bring the Americas under one roof. Then just like the Jews, you and your family will be rounded up and placed in some camp or holding area, and the results will be the same, only you will have lost everything without even being able to
put up a fight.

Those men that helped to create this country had wives and children as well, they held property, and yet they were willing to give it all up for a belief, and in some cases they did lose everything including their lives.

If something is worth having, then it has to be worth fighting for. How will you explain that to your child when you didn't want to fight.

As several have already stated, you don't need anyone's permission, you have to do what you think is
right for you and yours.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. Global warming is going to get us all, I'll worry about that.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. We come from restless people
and perhaps that has filtered down to us. It's human nature to look for something better.

I just happen to think I won't find it anyplace else. To each his own. Godspeed!
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
30. Do what you think is right. I left. No regrets.
I hope you have experience living abroad though, some people don't adjust well.

I love living in Japan, and miss very little other than certain comfort foods from the states. I sure as hell don't miss the cynical, self-absorbed culture or the horrible attitudes it instills in children from an early age. We've only been back to Japan for 2 weeks and my older son's attitude and study habits have already made a HUGE improvement, and he has more self-confidence and independence. He's 8 years old and rides the subway to school and back. In the states, kids have to be chaufferred and kept in a bubble until age 12 in most places. Kids weren't even allowed to ride a bike to school in his last school in the states.

We are a bicultural family with extended family in Japan, so coming here was natural. I can't really imagine leaving the country for exclusively political reasons, unless things got much worse. But then, the next few years don't look too rosy...
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. you could write an interesting book
on the differences you experience, and how they are reflected in your children. I'm sure that parents here could benefit and it could be a real contribution to changing things for the better.

I agree that kids here in the US have a cloistered and restricted childhood now. Everything is programmed and prescribed. They live with so much fear. I heard a kid of about 10-11 talking to his friend on a cell phone the other day and they were arranging to get together and he happened to say words to the effect of, "my dad told me that when he was a kid, you could just go out anytime and play in the neighborhood..."

I think the effects of such a restricted childhood could produce problems in the future.
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. In some ways, Japan reminds me of the US in the late 50's/early 60s...
Edited on Tue Apr-18-06 08:57 AM by Yollam
...in that most people still dress with some sense of decorum, the income distribution is more equal (most CEOs here only make SIX FIGURE SALARIES!), it's more homogenous and racial and sexual attitudes are a bit backwards in some ways. Of course, at the same time, Japan is dealing with the same pressures to offshore manufacturing, youth culture is becoming more nihilistic and kids and parents are more isolated from one another by their techno toys, but the idea of cooperation, unity and teamwork, self-sacrifice for the sake of the group are also deeply ingrained here and people seem to help others out more here.

I can say it's better for me and my family, but it's probably not better for everyone. God knows I've heard enough women's studies graduates who came over here to teach English ranting about the rampant sexism from the boorish salarymen, etc. They tend to see things through a western lens, and are unaware that usually those same salarymen are practically neutered at home by a wife with strict control of the purse strings. People who think Japanese women are submissive and powerless could not be more wrong. They are not, and I don't believe they ever have been. The submissiveness is strictly on the surface.

Yeah, it is interesting, but due to the homogenous and conformist nature of the culture, I doubt that my observations would be unique enough or make for a book that would be any more interesting than any of the multitude of other books out there by "Gaijins" comparing and contrasting Japan with their home countries. It's been done to the point where it's almost trite.

Maybe I should make some tentacle porn. Apparently there is money in that...
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. What's that?
I'm afraid to ask; well, not afraid to ask, but maybe afraid of the answer... anyway, what's 'tentacle porn'?
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Yollam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. I only know from seeing the boxes at the video stores, but...
...it's usually animated and involves, well, phallic tentacles...

Oh, what am I doing - go ask Google!
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. well if you could write it
specifically from the perspective of American parents raising kids overseas it could be a different angle. What are the positives, what are possible negative effects, the trade-offs as your children grow up. This might take awhile :) Not just descriptions of differences, but the subtle effects of differences. You seem to be a very sharp observer. But then you might not care to be a sociologist. It's just that parents might benefit--and parents do buy books. We hear a lot about people wanting to move overseas "for the children." I would definitely read anything on the subject. Just speculating...don't take it seriously (I see you didnt). Thanks for your interesting comments about Japan.
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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. I AM leaving, in June
thank the universe that I had the serendipity to marry a wonderful northern European. We have a beautiful house (albeit at present with no furniture) with a view of the Alps, as soon as I unload this house in Jesusland, I'm on the plane, cats in tow. My daughters are 22 & 24, and if it gets drafty, they'll be relocating as well. The youngest took a German course at college, just in case.

This country has gone into the sewer since Bu$hCo stole the pretzeldency, the infrastructure is failing, the middle class is disappearing. I hate what's happening here, but after returning in 2002 from Europe, realize that until we get these f*ckers out of office, and have a responsible govt. we are SCREWED.

Where is the outrage??
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Where is the Outrage?
Seems like that ought to be the Democratic mantra. Certainly it's one of the most puzzling questions about this whole thing...

(and it makes me start thinking all sorts of bizarre things... such as are we all drugged? is that what those unexplained 'contrails' contain? is it just some unrecognized side-effect of tv and/or the ubiquitous electronics? or perhaps just that we're so overwhelmed along so many dimensions in the modern world most just can't prioritize? or is this a result of the cultural obsession with entertainment and related activities designed to escape from reality for a bit? or all of the above? or perhaps any of dozens of other potential explanations? perhaps, like a user of narcotics, we've just developed a 'tolerance' for lies and it would take something stronger to move us? then again, it seems vast numbers of people are so poorly educated (in government, history, critical thinking, etc) that they're just clueless or misguided. many people seem trained or is the word 'conditioned' to obey authority and not to question anything. many people seem to take the quality of being able to believe anything without any evidence--which is cosidered desirable in religion, as being a positive quality in everyday life. too many people are taught to be selfish and self-absorbed so they don't care about societal issues except as to how it impacts them personally (so politics isn't an interest). too many people seem to suffer from the delusion that if they feel or think some way--then that is the right way and anyone who disagrees deserves to have their character smeared? (that's the "i feel it, therefore it's right" fallacy). then again, perhaps modern media is just so biased and advanced in it's powers to manipulate thinking that most people believe that things are mostly okay--except for those troublemaking Democrats...)(ideas welcome).
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converted_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
34. I may leave too.. I'm looking at Mexico, and several other SA countries..
I want to stay and sell my business to start a soup kitchen, but I think I'm going to keep those plans on the back burner until I figure out for sure what I want to do.. (If I sell my business I will have plenty to move on, and start a new life.. If I go ahead with my soup kitchen idea, I wouldn't have nearly the amount of liquidity I would need to get out quick..)
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
36. I absolutely commend you. I feel the same way.
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
37. To Go, or Not To Go....
Is that the question? Every individual must make their own choices. Seems to me, it would be most keen if one could arrange a second residence in another nation that has favorable conditions (decent economic growth/future, reasonable public health and healthcare available, good schools, healthy food supply/good water etc...). A sort of vacation home (modest would be okay) that could act as a refuge should it become necessary.

Will it become necessary? Who knows, the point is that given the rise of totalitarian thinking in this country (right-wing facists/corporatists, theocrats, neocons), and the increasing collapse of our governmental structures (Congressional apathy and failure to perform Oversight duties, the perverted Conservative domination of both the Supreme Court/Federal Courts and Congress, NeoCon control of the Executive/abuse of power/seeking "unitary" powers, dissolution of Separation of Church and State, Loss of Civil Rights and Legal Protections and the weakening of the Rule of Law, increasing resemblance to a Police State, etc), it's just possible that we will face a real decision in the coming decade. That decision may well be involve either facing a terrible struggle (potentially involving violence) for restoration of our Republic/Democracy/Freedom or enduring an indefinite period of darkness, oppression and abuse.

In either case, from the perspective of the individual, it may very well be preferrable to be elsewhere--to avoid either the hostilities or suffering (really, both in either case).
Obviously, we can't all run; if there's to be hope for America, most must stay and join the struggle. It's also the case, if these anti-Democratic forces do retain a more permanent hold on power, that many other countries will no longer be safe--as imperialism seems to be a component of the mindset of those who would take power.

I'd like to think that since our military is composed primarily (more or less) of regular citizens who are well (enough) educated and cherish American ideals and our Democracy, that they would refuse orders involving making war on their own fellow citizens. However, stranger things have happened. They are trained and conditioned to follow orders and the psychology of groups, of belonging to an exclusive or preferred group which prides itself on discipline... well, if our economy well and truly collapsed but the nefarious leadership ensured that the military was relatively immune and treated preferrentially, it's just possible that pragmatic concerns could lead soldiers to do whatever they had to to keep their positions (and thereby feed their families or in the more shallow cases, feed their egos and retain their privileged situations). Even so, I would predict things won't devolve to that point. We're going to face truly serious and intolerable encroachments on our rights and probably have to endure what amounts to economic collapse/universal poverty (excepting the wealthy) which will try our souls as never before... but we will recover.

Civilization has it's ups and downs, but Democracy is an idea that works better for more people than any other approach to governing--and we're basically addicted to it. We're not going to stand idly by when it becomes painfully evident that we're about to lose it. The operative word there is "painfully". We're going to need some pain; a bit of a shock to the senses and the suffering that will provide the motivation to keep going when it gets hard.

Would it be better to sit it out and watch it all happen from a comfortable, safe place? Maybe so. Is it the noble, corageous way? Probably not. Would it be the best thing for one's family? Perhaps; then again, such trial by fire often brings out the greatness in people and/or creates the greatest people. It imbues people with a real respect for life and reverence for peace and in the end the people will truly appreciate their freedoms and Democratic form of government. Then again, there will be great suffering and if the struggle involves violence, some won't survive. While it may be said that "people are never so alive as when they're facing death", it's a difficult existence. Simply put, though, if you consider survival and/or comfort to be of primary importance, the obvious choice is to avoid the situations by leaving. I suppose it could be said that if you instead value courage and sacrifice for others and want to save America because you cherish her ideals, freedoms and form of government, you'd choose to stay and accept the challenge whatever it may involve.

As for making that decision for your children, it should be pointed out that the goal of saving our Democracy very much is as much for the future of our children as it is for ourselves; that, of course, is if you are considering all of America's children as opposed to just your own. However, your child is likely to be relatively happy wherever they are; children adapt to their environments--if anything--easier than we do. They'll be happy in some foreign country and oblivious to what they're missing or avoiding back here, just as they'll probably find a way to be happy enough here--even facing some privations and hard times. Then again, if it's truly bad here, and truly bad means things like starvation, violence or death--then they might survive elsewhere while they wouldn't here. Under such conditions they wouldn't be very happy here and probably be scarred by the experience if they did survive; and that's if they don't face the loss of you, their own parents. Escaping/avoiding such as that would have to be considered wisdom, if you can manage it. Remember, though, had many Americans decided to leave the country for the sake of their children back in 1775, we might still be speaking English! ( :grin: ) The point there, if there is one, is that patriots didn't avoid the struggle for freedom for the want of their children's comfort and safety. Families are probably made all the stronger for the shared hardships and danger (again, those that survived).

We probably face far greater danger from nuclear or biological war or even more likely the Bird Flu, in terms of lives lost, than from some revolutionary or civil war for restoration of Democracy. Admittedly, though, it is deeply frustrating and profoundly fatiguing to witness our current political regression--especially when by virtue of ruthless politics (with outright vote fraud) we're the effectively helpless minority in our own government.
What bothers me the worst is the simply unbelievably large percentage of the population that is apparently so ignorant, so selfish, so intolerant and misguided. How could they have come to be that way? Isn't this the United States of America and isn't this the 21st century? Are we not beyond such stupidity? Apparently not. Alas, the wealthy are in power and care only for their own privilege and "the People" are merely fodder to be used and abused according to their whims.
In any case, we're nowhere near the point we should cut and run if such a time is even possible. Even so, it would seem wise, however, if you're personally able to, to at least consider your options and think about your preparations. Any decision involving a move, though, should involve some long, hard reflection. You may well regret it if you leave, even if you do enjoy relative safety and comfort. You and perhaps your children too may experience a sense of guilt or shame for the rest of your lives for having taken the easy way out--especially if you leave, the struggle is played out and works out for the best and you then return. Other kids will ask "where where you when...", and the answer will be "we moved away before..."; hopefully they will understand. But even if they do, and even if they wish they had left or been able to leave, it seems likely they're resent the fact that they suffered and you didn't--or even feel pride that they withstood the challenge and you retreated. Who knows.

Still, the thought has a certain appeal; I'm not sure even whether I would choose to stay and fight if I had the option to avoid it all. I know what the wealthy would choose. I suspect I'd be stupid enough to stay, but even if I didn't use it, I'd have to say I think it would feel very good to know I could leave (had a place to go) if it became most necessary (even recognizing that leaving might be difficult or impossible if things go really bad). Funny how that works.

As for cowardice, 'twould seem there's but a fine line between cowardice and wisdom. So long as you're true to yourself, you really do have the freedom to do whatever you find most appropriate/desirable. Those who value ideals such as courage, patriotism would probably feel they've run away and let down their friends, family and country; they should probably stay. Those who prize the safety and quality of life of themselves and their families above such considerations as Democracy, nationalism and community should do right by their concerns and relocate. So long as you do what you believe is best for yourself and those you care about; whether some would consider themselves superior (according to their own values) and so consider your actions cowardly, is not a matter for real concern. So, "to thine own self be true" and be satisfied with that.

Hmmm... I seem to be trying to write a book or something, going on and on and on like this. Oh well.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-18-06 06:08 PM
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42. I'm with you.
Though... I don't know if we have the resources. If there's a draft and my kids are within a couple years of age, we'll flee no matter what.
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