Conservatives who hate the ACLU, listen up.

[Skidmore]

The ACLU protects your rights too. They don't just go to bat for Dems or liberals, but for all citizens. Ask Limbaugh. Where was the first place he went when someone asked for his medical records? Not the Heritage Foundation. He went to the ACLU, as have many other conservatives in the past. Its time for you to understand that rights are for everyone, not just the people you agree with politically. The right to practice your religion is balanced by a right not to practice religion. It would seem to me that when you whip on the ACLU, you hurt yourself as well.

[SHRED]

1. That's true but...

...you are directing your comments towards a group that want a King.
People's "Rights" really have faded from their thought process.

Until they get in trouble of course!

[ZombieGak]

14. so what rights do Dems support?

Like the GOP, the Dems routinely ignore the 9th amendment that protected the unenumerated rights of the People and pretty much believe only those new rights won through the courts matter.

[No Exit]

16. Maybe that's because dems have been shut out of the other 2

branches of government (the legislative and the executive), and therefore turn to the one branch which is still technically not quite the property of the rePUKElican party... until, of course, the confirmation of monarchist Alito is finalized.

[ComerPerro]

2. They know. But since they are in power, they feel

that their rights and freedoms aren't under attack by this administration.

A conservative I know summed it up best, when discussing the NSA spying issue: "I don't care if they listen, I have nothing to hide."

Not yet....

[BOSSHOG]

6. How would he know whether he has anything to hide?

That would be deterimined by the hunters. And its also a way for a conservative to feel good about themselves by telling someone they have nothing to hide. My silly response; prove it?

[Arkansas Granny]

10. Exactly. Who knows what information is being collected or how

that information might be used. If they eavesdrop on a conversation between you and your doctor, for instance, or a debt collector, is there any guarantee that this information will never be "mistakenly" turned over to an interested third party? Just because I feel I have nothing to hide doesn't mean that I want to allow anyone to listen to my phone conversations. That, to me, is tantamount to allowing them to open my mail.

Then you get into the whole matter of the legality of the act. The office of the President is in the Executive branch of the government, not the Legislative. If the President is able to make the final determination on the law, this would make Congress and the Supreme Court superfluous. Isn't that called a dictatorship?

[Atman]

7. Until his daughter calls saying she's pregnant and needs an abortion

...because she slept with that Muslim guy at college.

Shit happens, you stupid conservative fuckwads. Shit you never dream of while your dancing on everyone else's rights. And it ALWAYS, always comes back to bite you in the ass. It is astonishing the depth of these people's ignorance.

[Atman]

3. The ACLU is just a hand demon for them

I doubt they even think when they parrot that nonsense anymore. Like the Hillary haters. It's a knee-jerk reaction.

[Surya Gayatri]

4. If I thought

he'd read it, I'd send this to my Neo-con brother. He's always banging on about those 'commie pinko leftist at the ACLU'. But, I've more or less written him off as a bad job. Certainly nothing I say seems to have any impact on his world view. SG

[ZombieGak]

15. I think the ACLU just seems to the left because....

I think the ACLU just seems to the left because both the Dems and GOP have routinely ignored the Bill of Rights and therefore anyone defending those unenumerated rights protected by the 9th amendment seem to be Left of even the Dems.

[No Exit]

17. Considering that the corrupt sewer pit that currently controls Washington

has sought to nullify several specifically STATED rights, it is hardly surprising that they would not defend unenumerated rights.

[ZombieGak]

18. situation predates Bush Junta

If you can find some general support for the 9th by the Dems or GOP prior to 2001 please post it. What I see is the Dems have never supported the literal interpretation of the 9th. If they had rights like privacy and the right to choose would not have to have been established through court cases... nor would they be so fragile today.

[No Exit]

21. I would rather spend time opposing the most immediate enemy

of our freedom: the "Bush Junta", as you call it.

You can vilify the democrats all you want, but the subject for these times is the nasty rePUKElicans who have had 10-12 years of power--which they obtained based on promises of "reform"--and which they have used to do the exact opposite of reform. Much of my life was lived during times when the democrats controlled congress. But these rePUKElicans have outdone the corruption of the dems' 40 year reign--and they've outdone it in a mere 10-12 years.

We also have before us a textbook case of exactly why monarchy is not the answer for our people: if we tried monarchy, what would we do if the monarch was a demented, brain-damaged, vengeful, petty person? We are getting a chance to find out, because that is exactly what we currently have.

[ZombieGak]

23. you avoided my question

You made a statement in your first post to which I responded:

"If you can find some general support for the 9th by the Dems or GOP prior to 2001 please post it. What I see is the Dems have never supported the literal interpretation of the 9th. If they had rights like privacy and the right to choose would not have to have been established through court cases... nor would they be so fragile today."

I stand by that statement and I'm STILL waiting for you to show where the Dems have ever championed the spirit of the 9th amendment and advocated for rights above and beyond those enumerated or settled in court cases.

The reality is the Dems have a pretty restrictive view of rights... only it's less restrictive than the Right.... and the unenumerated rights the Dems DO support are pretty much based in constituent groups in the Democratic coalition.

[No Exit]

26. For your convenience, here is the thread's original post.

"The ACLU protects your rights too. They don't just go to bat for Dems or liberals, but for all citizens. Ask Limbaugh. Where was the first place he went when someone asked for his medical records? Not the Heritage Foundation. He went to the ACLU, as have many other conservatives in the past. Its time for you to understand that rights are for everyone, not just the people you agree with politically. The right to practice your religion is balanced by a right not to practice religion. It would seem to me that when you whip on the ACLU, you hurt yourself as well."

The tone of your answers to the original post seemed to be the old "they are all scum, no matter which party." And you also seem to want very badly to get into an esoteric discussion of the fine points of the 9th Amendment.

I chose to respond to the tone of your posts. Although I have studied Constitutional law, I consider this forum to be a DEMOCRAT-run general political comments forum--not a forum for footnoted discussions about the 9th Amendment in particular, nor a forum for people to puff themselves up with how many footnotes and case cites they can list about a particular amendment. If you want to play "Constitutional lawyer", I suggest you get a law degree. Because then you would at least be paid for it when you went into detailed discussions of particular amendments.

I refuse to accept the "they all do it" routine. This is a red herring which is currently used to excuse the unbelievably deep and pervasive corruption of the republican party--you know, those guys who swept into the House in '94, promising to "reform" it. They have not only done the opposite; they have in fact exceeded any/all corruption of the democrats which I saw during the long democrat reign which preceded their accession to power. These republican poseurs need to be JAILED. Soon.

[ZombieGak]

19. original intent of 9th

James Madison might know something about the original intent of the Bill of Rights and especially the 9th which says: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Madison wrote:

"It has been objected also against a bill of rights, that, by enumerating particular exceptions to the grant of power, it would disparage those rights which were not placed in that enumeration; and it might follow, by implication, that those rights which were not singled out, were intended to be assigned into the hands of the General Government, and were consequently insecure. This is one of the most plausible arguments I have ever heard urged against the admission of a bill of rights into this system; but, I conceive, that it may be guarded against. I have attempted it, as gentlemen may see by turning to the last clause of the fourth resolution."

www.usconstitution.net/madisonbor.html#Sec5

I find NO evidence that the Democrats ever supported this original intent of the 9th.

[No Exit]

22. "Evidence" or not, somehow the thing foremost in my mind at the

moment is the continual and colossal abuse of power by the rePUKElicans, who now have 2, soon to be 3, branches of our government in their stranglehold. They need to be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail. They must never be allowed to gain power again.

That's the matter with which I am currently concerned.

[ZombieGak]

24. and you don't think that......

And as a strategy to divide the Right Dems should not try to play the Constitution card by exposing Scalia and Thomas.... as extreme radicals?

But the Dems play that card only as far as it appeals to constituent groups in the Democratic Party. The Dems, themselves, don't have an expansive/coherent enough view of the Constitution to play that card with conservatives.

[No Exit]

27. Scalia and Thomas are already exposed as such.

Additionally, Scalia is exposed as someone who has a lax view of ethics, considering that he went "duck hunting" with Crown Prince Cheney while in the process of deliberating a case which involved said Crown Prince.

Is their extreme radicalism grounds to remove them? I doubt it. Better to concentrate on those who have not yet been confirmed, such as the authoritarian Sc-Alito.

[ZombieGak]

25. so were you concerned about the 9th....

So were you concerned about the 9th.... say BEFORE 2000? Before 94? Ever?

[rodeodance]

5. anyone know if Rush had shut his trap about the ACLU since they

helped him? just curious how he handled this?--

[MemphisTiger]

8. They think that the ACLU is a NWO to implement communism

they keep repeating these "anonymously" authored emails the founders ideals. Yet they don't look at the current mission of the ACLU. It's been the conservative talking point for some time now just like making "liberal" a dirty word. If they keep repeating it people start to believe it. What a bunch of "morans"

[underpants]

9. Civil liberties/rights ARE liberal-The Bill of Rights is liberal

as conservatives they not only oppose civil rights and liberties they opposed the American Revolution itself.

[rustydog]

11. The ACLU defends our rights more than Bush does and he

took an oath swearing to preserve, protect and defend the "goddamn piece of paper."

[MemphisTiger]

12. The "god***n piece of paper" remark was not true

here is the article you refer to

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

It was a rant on Capitol Hill Blue

Not a mainstream paper. If this quote were true, it would have been everywhere. This is not a good argument to use against Bush. There are plenty of things that will bury him without fiction.

[ZombieGak]

13. it's all about the 9th

The reason the Right doesn't like the ACLU is because they don't really believe the 9th amendment means what it clearly says: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

They want to pretend that only enumerated rights exist.

Sadly the Dems are little better and only believe that rights like privacy and the right to choose won though the courts exist.

[Bridget Burke]

28. What specific Democratic actions have offended you?

At least this is a change from those fixated on the 2nd Amendment to the exclusion of all others.

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. Card carrying member of the ACLU here!

:hi: I have my ACLU sticker on my window too! I just DARE someone to make a snide remark about the ACLU.:grr:

[classic1]

29. Read what has been written on free republic

on this. Any by the way it has been this site that has made me view that site :-)

In any event,
ACLU is anti christian, especially around Holiday time
ACLU is defending NAMBLA (not sure if that is the right abbreviation)
ACLU has picked political sides and associate themselves with progressive democrats

I am sure if someone went over there they could find out more reasons why, but I have no interest in going over there..
thank you very much