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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:50 PM
Original message
U.S. is almost ready to attack Iran.
 
Run time: 01:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSdNFk9EWY
 
Posted on YouTube: August 17, 2008
By YouTube Member:
Views on YouTube: 0
 
Posted on DU: August 31, 2008
By DU Member: balantz
Views on DU: 773
 
They're getting their ducks in a row right under our noses.

Is the media keeping us up to date on this very important and growing development?

If this happens everything else we are concerned with will get tossed aside.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can't take the crappy music, but yes, it's coming.
As we debate Sarah Palin's pregnancy, Dick Cheney is lining up a big-time attack on Iran.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I think they were rubbing it in our faces
whan they threw us Palin to gossip about.

They aren't going to let go of power and we can see they are fine having a couple of meat-puppets at the helm for Cheney and co. to see us into WWIII and martial law.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. Pooo! Anyone who's ever played Risk knows that a bad move.
Better to consolidate your forces in Greenland, Alaska and Mexico, while waiting for the other guys to beat each other to pieces.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. lol
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bluesmail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Palin's a media distraction. Iran is going to get it from U.S.
and all the others. Here comes WW111.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. This has been said over and over for the past four years...
While I'm sure they would love to invade Iran, I'm pretty sure they know they won't get much from it and the consequences would far outweigh any perceived benefits.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It's more than Iran
It's about who will control the world and the resources.
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Regret My New Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That's easy to know...
it will be the cockroaches.
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jimlup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. yes
But an attack just before the US elections seems incredibly low handed, even for them. It would have one desired effect: fear, but really are they this insane?

OK, I'll bite, what will be the trigger?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think the Bushwhacks have been checkmated on Iran.
Yes, I think they most definitely set things up to take Iran, thus, the "surrounding" maps.

However, the vid ends with "the U.S. and its allies" about to attack Iran. What allies? The so-called "coalition" countries in Iraq couldn't bail fast enough. The U.S. is on its own.

Secondly, the EU doesn't want to be upwind of Cheney's Armageddon. So, attack Iran with what? And, attack Iran, then what? They'd have to nuke it and nuke it good--to subdue such a big, well-fed, prosperous and well-defended country. Say, they nuke a quarter of it. They've still got millions of people to subdue. With what troops? Our already exhausted troops in Iraq? If they nuke it, neither the EU nor England will participate. How do you control Iran, with Iraq still very volatile, and Afghanistan nearly lost, and the U.S. military maxed out already?

These realities are why our military itself is against attacking Iran. If you use conventional weapons, you can knock out a lot of infrastructure, and kill a lot of people, and take losses, but then what? You have to have a boffo occupying force. We don't have it. If they don't use nukes (and don't just devastate the place with mushroom clouds and radiation spreading everywhere, creating millions of sick and dying refugees, for one thing), they might have a few allies, but not many--none willing to commit whole armies, or even significant numbers of troops. What do you do with millions of sick and dying refugees (the burden will likely fall on the EU!), and a hornets' nest of millions of others, not sick and dying--and not just Iranians--prepared to do literally anything to get back at you?

How are you going to swipe their oil in these circumstances? How are you going to keep Iran, after you attack it?

Attacking Iran is not viable. And I haven't even mentioned China or Russia yet. China owns a big portion of our debt paper. They don't have to respond to an attack on Iran with weapons. All they have to do is call in our loans.

As for Russia, I think Georgia was punishment of Russia for its part in a coalition of countries who are the main deterrent to the Bushwhacks attacking Iran. The coalition includes Russia, China and India, at least. They are using economic levers, for now. All three are nuclear powers.

I admit that the maps began to look very compelling, with Georgia added in--and were compelling before that. But I think the evidence and arguments against an imminent attack on Iran are also compelling.

Finally, our own Corpos don't like this nutso plan. That's why Rumsfeld is gone, in my opinion. Maybe somebody got the goods on him, too. (Of all the Bushite evildoers, he is the worst.) But I'm pretty sure that the main reason he resigned was because the war against Iran was nixed, and Bush-Cheney were curtailed on this issue, or he was pushed out because he wouldn't give it up. Curtailed by a combination of Corpos, military and other mucky-mucks in our political establishment, as too insane (can't use nukes), too unviable, and bad for business. Can we handle a boycott by the whole world? No.

There are a lot of other bad things that could happen--Bushite horrors--before they're out, or if they won't go--which I don't think is viable either (we're too big a country, too difficult to control)--or if they Diebold McBush and Dingbat into puppet positions (very possible), and even if the Corpos permit Obama to win--and among these are a Bushite plan to split off the oil rich state of Zulia, in Venezuela (on the Venezuela-Caribbean coast), by using their client state of Colombia--its compliant military, its death squads, Blackwater, and local fascist militias, and the newly reconstituted U.S. 4th Fleet (now roaming off the coast of Venezuela), to support a fascist secessionist movement there (secession from the Chavez government, taking the oil with them). Colombia might simultaneously move against the leftist government of Ecuador, to the south. Thus one big fascist oil state would be created. They have fascist cells in Venezuela and Ecuador, planning such a move--and an active, on-going secessionist plot in Bolivia (among the white separatists in the gas and oil rich provinces).

None of these countries is well-defended. They are improving defenses, and the continent is becoming very united on goals not only of social justice, but also self-determination, and Latin American independence and sovereignty, and they seem to have each others' backs. The only outliers are Colombia ($6 BILLION in military aid thru Bushite fingers), and Peru (a 'free trade' mess--the next government will be leftist). The whole region is going leftist, up into Central America. And the South Americans are swiftly moving toward a South American "Common Market" (not including the U.S.), which might well extend quickly into Central America (already signs of it). A "Common Market" with a common defense, recently proposed by Brazil. But they are not well-defended yet.

The Bushites and our Corpos really, REALLY want to stop this whole thing--Latin American sovereignty (control of their own resources and economies; democracy; cooperation, unity). The Bushites have failed--and failed miserably--thus far. Nothing worse for the Corpos than democracy, and it is spreading all over the place, to the south of us, in our own hemisphere. They can't really attack and conquer South America, but they could possibly "divide and conquer," stoke some civil wars, cause a lot of trouble, suffering and grief, and hack pieces of it off, or try to--the ones with the resources they want, and the ones that are easiest to pick off.

They thought Bolivia would be easy pickens (white separatists in the gas/rich states want to secede)--especially with rightwing Paraguay next door as a staging area. Then Paraguay elected its first leftist president, ever--this year. He has a 92% approval rating, is aligned with the Bolivarians and wants the U.S. military out of his country.

So, Bolivia--deeply embedded in the continent, land-locked, and now surrounded with leftist democracies--is likely going to weather that Bush-blown storm.

There are a number of possibilities for the Bushites first big hostile move in South America. I think the very intense, long standing, propaganda campaign against Chavez--more intense now than ever--and several other factors (including proximity of the 4th Fleet right off Venezuela's oil coast) points to Venezuela. The Bushites tried to start a proxy war between Colombia and Ecuador earlier this year, but Chavez (a very savvy guy, with very savvy advisers) headed it off (--for which Lula da Silva, president of Brazil, called Chavez "the great peacemaker"). (Lulu also recently said, of Chavez: "You can criticize Chavez on a lot of things, but not on democracy." The Bushite accusation that Chavez is a "dictator" is total bullshit.)

I think location on the Caribbean will be the deciding factor. A defensible chunk of Venezuela--and its biggest oil state--would be a great prize, indeed. They'll have to kill a lot of Venezuelans, but it's a rural area, sparsely populated, and the fascists there are ruthless and would put death squads into action (with help from neighboring Colombia). It's a feasible--if entirely lawless, immoral and heinous--war plan. They might also try to grab--or at least disable--Ecuador at the same time. Ecuador, also a member of OPEC, with huge oil deposits, is a strong Chavez ally, and would, without question, help Venezuela in this situation, if it could, but it sits on Colombia's south border, very vulnerable, not well-defended. Ecuador's leftist president has vowed not to renew the U.S. military lease on its base in Manta, Ecuador, next year. In a move on Venezuela, the Bushites would want to at least neutralize Ecuador, and, at best, sweep it up at the same time, and create one large, fascist-controlled oil region covering the northern hump of the continent.

I don't think they will succeed. But I think that's the plan. And I think that Donald Rumsfeld--frustrated in his lust to attack Iran--is the master-mind behind it.

Why I think they won't succeed? The growing unity of South America. As with trying to bring the nazi boot down here, it's just too much trouble. Chavez's many allies will go nuts--Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Ecuador and Venezuela itself--PLUS even right and center-right governments in Latin American countries these days are into the notion of Latin American SOVEREIGNTY. It will be an unforgivable blow to Latin American dignity, and will alienate the northern and southern parts of our hemisphere, possibly permanently. If the Bushites grab Zulia, the other Latin American countries will not rest until it is returned. They may not be able to return Zulia to Venezuela with the weapons of war. But they will do it.

The Bushites may have their strategies, but they don't understand people. They don't understand--and can't understand--how passionate the South Americans are about their hard-won democracy revolution. They make a similar mistake about Iran, not regarding democracy, but regarding Iranians' pride in their ancient Persian culture, and their sense of coherence as a culture and a country. Iraq was a cobbled together country--by the U.S. and the U.K. It was very vulnerable to "divide and conquer." Iran is not. Nor is South America, as a whole--as a group of countries that are now in increasing accord with other, and have a common history, a common language, a common religion, a common problem of racial bigotry against the indigenous (which they are making great strides in overcoming), and have suffered a common fate at U.S. hands--dictatorship after dictatorship, brutality, murder and exploitation, for over a hundred years. They are determined upon their peaceful, democratic, social justice revolution. And they know--although the Bushites and most of our people don't know--that it's time has come.

As usual, the Bushites have only brutality to offer. They can walk all over an inherently fractured society like Iraq's, and a very weak country, after 12 years of sanctions and no-fly zone bombings--a somewhat artificial country held together by a dictator. They cannot do the same to a country like Iran, nor to a continent that is on the cusp of realizing Simon Bolivar's dream of a "United States of South America."

Anyway, that's my best guess as to where they're going to strike. Venezuela's oil coast may look like a sitting duck to them. But they are a notoriously stupid bunch of people, Bushites, for all their wealth and power. They can bribe some people (local fascist elites), and torture others, and kill many, and run rampant through the world, and steal us blind (until we stop them), but they are completely bankrupt when it comes to ideas that truly inspire most people. They are like the global corporate predators they serve--empty souls on a meaningless path. They cannot win against people with full, rich souls, who have got hold of the ideas of self-determination and unity.
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judasdisney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Bolivia may weather one storm, but Neocons don't stop, and July was fateful
for South America with the "miracle hostage rescue" in Colombia, strengthening and consolidating Uribe's power, ensuring that the Neocons have a base of operations for staging False Flags.

Don't be surprised if Obama gets lured IMMEDIATELY into supporting Uribe and coming into Neocon-contrived conflict with Chavez & Morales, with a False Flag crisis in February 2009. South America is the KEY to Neocon resurgence, and the gears of CIA drug trafficking are in the hands of the Neocon faction.

As for Iran, anyone would be stupid to dismiss Neocon rabidity and insanity. The imminent danger is not over until January 20, 2009.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Oh, I agree that the danger of an INSANE attack on Iran is real. Don't get me wrong.
I'm just saying that you can interpret a number of important developments differently, and I favor that interpretation. We're all reduced to reading entrails, in the "land of the free, home of the brave." We don't know what the fuck this 20% approval Bush junta, or our single digit approval 'Democratic' Congress will do. But I think there are enough signs and omens that Iran is "off the table" but that the Bushbots are free to go after OTHER oil, if they can get away with it, without a major military commitment, and without alienating more Corpo markets.

Both of these things present a strategic problem for 'mastermind' Mr. Rumsfeld. Thus, the strategy to instigate civil war, sell it as locals just wanting their "independence" from "dictator" Chavez, and use the forces that have been put in place (Colombian military/paramilitaries, Blackwater, etc.) and the billions of missing taxpayer dollars at Rumsfeld's disposal, and merely provide U.S. military "support" for the action--say, stationing the 4th Fleet right off the Venezuelan coast, at Zulia, to provide high tech surveillance to the rebels--systems that were tested out in the bombing/raid on Ecuador in March, and in the staged 'rescue' of Betancourt more recently--and use threatening USAF flyovers, etc.--also recently tested out--while funneling weapons to the rebels, etc.--and only use U.S. military directly if necessary.

In Rumsfeld's op-ed in WaPo in December, he urges "swift action" by the U.S. in support of "friends and allies" in South America. I think this is what he was talking about.

Rafael Correa (president of Ecuador) has spoken about this openly. He says the Bushites have a three-country strategy to split off the oil rich provinces with rightwing secessionists as the means (in order to create fascist mini-states in control of the oil). Correa is one of the good guys. I believe him. This Bushite plan is real--and it is a lot less costly (and less outright insane) than attacking Iran. Iran is well-defended. South America is NOT well-defended (militarily). Rumsfeld and the Bushites have the inherent tendency of bullies and cowards, to pick on the weak.

That takes care of the cost and military commitment requirements for grabbing more oil fields. The other requirement--not alienating more Corpo markets--is more complex. IF they were to succeed in creating a fascist-controlled chunk of oil rich South America (stretching from Zuila in the north, through Colombia to Ecuador in the south), this would be a severe blow to the currently overwhelming trend in South America against the World Bank/IMF loan sharks, U.S. dominated "free trade," and the corrupt, failed and murderous U.S. "war on drugs." The Bushites have two objects: to restore global corporate predator control of the oil, and to STOP the enormous leftist movement in South America, that is going for true independence (independence from Exxon Mobil & brethren). A successful war strategy--as outlined above--would put the left in disarray and be a sore burden on its democratic achievements. This would be the entre for the World Bank/IMF, ruinous "free trade," and "war on drugs" militarization to regain ground in South America (and stop losing ground in Central America--Honduras being the latest defector from Bushite "free trade").

Corpo markets are highly exploited markets--at the expense of the vast poor majority. If they were to succeed in the above war strategy, markets that create artificial wealth for the few would be given a big boost. Reason tells us that it would be bad to alienate the South Americans in their desire for control of their own economies, self-determination and sovereignty. But Bushites don't think reasonably--or, rather, they think very short-term. PROFIT NOW, at any cost--at the expense of the future, at the expense of the planet, at the expense of a million slaughtered people in Iraq. It will look good to Exxon Mobil and Monsanto and World Bank investors, and their ilk, for the immediate future. But it will, of course, be very bad in the long term for South Americans and for everyone else.

So the civil war strategy satisfies the two criteria that attacking Iran does not. It is much less costly, and the markets and resources are very close to hand, and undefended (militarily). I think the Bushites greatly underestimate the non-military defense that South Americans will mount, in defense of Venezuela's and Ecuador's and their regional sovereignty. But that shouldn't surprise us. Bushites do not understand people, and they are especially dense at understanding how democracy moves people, when they get that flame in their hearts.

All I'm saying is, be prepared for this. Oil War II: South America. If I am right--that Iran is now "forbidden fruit"--where else are they going get the oil? Massive oil reserves are right here, in our own hemisphere, but they are now in the control of leftist democracies who are using the oil profits to benefit the poor. These governments are not militaristic, and are not well-defended militarily. The Bushites have been actively trying to destabilize and topple them--to no avail--and their propaganda machine against them is very intense, to no avail in South America, but rather a success here. So, if our people hear of a rebellion against "Chavez the dictator," their brains will turn it off, and limited U.S. "support" for the fascist "independence lovers" and "freedom fighters" will not cause any serious trouble here, even for Obama. It's all set up. The pieces are in place. But I am fairly convinced that it will end up being yet another disaster of U.S. foreign policy--causing a permanent rift between the north and south in our hemisphere.

The long hard road of fucking with these democracies by other means--such as pouring billions of our tax dollars into rightwing political causes in South America, USAID "training" of nazi-like youth groups as a front for fascist coupsters, sabotage, dirty tricks, attempts at destabilization, all sorts of tactics to mess with South American elections, etc., is TOO LONG a road for Exxon Mobil, the World Bank and other Corpos. These efforts will no doubt be coordinated with the civil war strategy, and used in support. But they cannot gain the Bushites what they want soon enough. And their enormous expenditure of our tax dollars to arm the fascists in Colombia ($6 BILLION) and on "war on drugs" U.S. military installations and forces (more billions, into the pockets of Corpos like Dyncorp and Blackwater), has all along had this invisible purpose: to grab the oil.

To Bushites, it must look like easy pickins. The psyops part sure has been easy (here). But they are very likely going to fail, and the financial and foreign policy blowback are going to hit us hard. And it is also going to hit the Corpos hard. For one thing, it will likely tip the very close scales in Mexico toward a leftist success in the next election (the margin was 0.05% last time). The issue is the SOVEREIGNTY of Latin American countries. That is the issue in Mexico (where the Corpo president is trying to privatize Mexico's constitutionally protected oil resource), and that is the issue everywhere else in Central and South America. That is why the Bushites have "lost" South America (and are "losing" Central America). They are desperate to reverse this. (Personally, I think their immunity from prosecution for war crimes is at stake. The Corpos want South America back.) Their M.O.is war. That's all they know. They think it's low-risk/high gain. That is likely what they will try next.
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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. This current regime has been planned for a long time,
Edited on Sun Aug-31-08 11:22 PM by balantz
and they're crazy enough to go all out for the corporate agenda. They haven't gone this far to quit now. They have the fire power, and it's the most technologically advanced. Who knows what China will do? Perhaps they will sit it out? Does China want a stronger Russia? Maybe China will get in on it after things are at a certain point. Private militias that can hire from third world countries and a military draft can take care of soldiers on the ground. I see 911 as an inside job. People who don't see it that way don't seem to be of the opinion that these freaks will do anything they want to. I hope you're right and this is not a feasible thing for them to carry out.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-08 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I don't see them being able to occupy Iran with "private militias" and troops from
third world countries. (And which countries do you mean--that are aligned with the Bushites/Corpos and have more than token troops to contribute?) The Draft, maybe. That's probably why they let zillions of jobs bleed out of the country--to have more cannon fodder. But a Draft is a very dangerous route in the U.S. The American people are slow to rebel, but if they ever do, look out! is all I can say. It's going to be big. And a Draft is just the sort of thing to trigger it. And they don't have the troops NOW.

I see three possible attack Iran scenarios:

Bush-Cheney do it now: They don't have the troops. The military opposes it. They can't use nukes (military and many others oppose it). They attack Iran, then what?

The Corpos (s)elect McGoo and Dingbat as their puppets in the White House: They do a Draft. Civil unrest ensues. They inflict martial law, and drag young people from their homes, put a uniform on them, and ship them to Iran (after they bomb Iran, knock out its government, smash it up and start trying to occupy it). Possible--but NOT imminent. (It would take at least a year for this to unfold.)

The Corpos (s)elect the much more competent Obama-Biden team: They do a Draft. Civil unrest ensues. But they are more skillful at handling it. And they take their time (presuming Obama-Biden agree with the goal of invading Iran--I don't really know), until a real convincing "Gulf of Tonkin"-type incident can be concocted, and then they do it with ducks in a row--trained Draftees, the American people hoodwinked, maybe some sops to the working class in the meantime. This is also possible--but it is also NOT imminent. (I'd say it would take two years.)

The first scenario has Bush-Cheney urgency behind it--but it is nuts, and I think a lot of powerful people and forces know that it's nuts, and have curtailed it. The other two scenarios are NOT imminent. They will take time (maybe enough time for us to get our vote counting system back into the PUBLIC venue--an accountability measure, and the bottom line of our democracy).

My scenario--grabbing South American oil--is much quicker, much less costly, and much "easier" in some respects, although ultimately it will be disastrous for us. But the "quicker," "less costly," apparently "easier" part is why I think Bush-Cheney are likely to do it. They need a quick fix.

It could also be done some time in the next year, whoever gets (s)elected. No Draft. No big fuss. Virtually no cost, financially. And it's just that "dictator" Chavez, etc., is how it will be played. And it could even be done without U.S. military support--so, no controversy.

I think the money Rumsfeld controls, the mercenaries he can buy, the Colombian military/and associated death squads, and local fascist militias could do it, but I don't think this oil coup will last very long, with or without U.S. military support.

I guess what I'm talking about is TEMPTATION. A militarily poorly defended BIG oil resource, right in our own "backyard," with the added benefit that trying to grab it now will cause trouble and chaos for all the leftist governments in South America (and help scare the Central Americans who are leaning that way). It has a Bush-Cheney smell to it. They are really and truly incompetent at geo-politics. They are soulless and conscienceless. And what they want is easy "roadkill." But what they don't realize is that the "roadkill" is ALIVE, and it's not the deer they thought it was; it's a panther. I don't think the panther will respond with bared teeth. It can't win against U.S. firepower. It will be more cunning, but the upshot will be devastating to us, and to our Corpos. The U.S. will be evicted from Latin America.



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balantz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. That was a lot of writing.
Thanks for your thoughtful response. Let's hope none of the ghastly things occur!

:hi:
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suede1 Donating Member (770 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-08 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. I hope not. The CIA blocked them once.
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