The truth about the market rally

[SlowDownFast]

Run time: 09:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj0gg3rmpj0   Posted on YouTube: August 03, 2009 By YouTube Member: Views on YouTube: 0   Posted on DU: August 04, 2009 By DU Member: SlowDownFast Views on DU: 1189

 
Also, another excellent commentary by Karl Denninger of TickerForums:

How To (Unlawfully?) Blow A Market Bubble
http://market-ticker.org/archives/1290-How-To-Unlawfully-Blow-A-Market-Bubble.html

Dollar chart for this last month:
http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=d1

[Ozymanithrax]

1. "Grow our bloated government..."

It appears that Mr. Denniger may be one of those small government fanatics. If we can just shrink government small enough to drown in a bathtub, all will be well. The idea that government is like an enlarged prostate that makes us piss away the wealth of corporations is wrong. An economic system designed to transfer wealth from the middle-class and the poor to a hyper wealthy investor class is the problem.

[Grinchie]

2. I'd like to shrink the Corporate Cancer that is growing in the Guts of our Government

The Corporation has more rights than the Government in most cases, and when it doesn't, the wholly owned Concer Cells that have metastisized in the Government regulatory system thrart anything that would harm their liveliehood.

You can shrink Government to essentials while very easily keeping essential regulatory, social services, legal and defensive systems in place.

The whole Drowning in a Bathtub meme is designed to destroy confidence in the Government, by enacting overbloated beaucricies, populated with inept cronies, and ridiculous laws. Then underfund them and cause them to fail due to sheer ineptness and Corporate giveaways. We've seen it in the USDA, FDA, EPA, SEC, FCC, etc..

When the Hyperwealthy are somehow the only ones selected for a Government job, then something is terribly wrong, since we only see a few individuals tapped for Government Executive jobs. Look at Obama's Hillbilly Hoedown with ex-clinton and Bush supplicants..

Michael Taylor, litigator for Monsanto now back inside the USDA. Vilsack, another GMO fanboy, yet we do not see anyone that has had the ethics to actually follow their soul, ethics, or the science on the dangers of GMO and force a real scientific review, or even Labeling to occur.

No, gotta keep our stock in Monsanto, DOW, Conagra and ADM artificially elevated... Plus, we might need them in the next war to switch over to conventional weapons chemicals...

[Guero]

3. Why listen to radical 'free market' economists analyze

the 'recovery' when they are usually wrong about everything else? Both Schiff (advisor to Ron Paul) and Denninger are right-wing Libertarian economists and seem a 'little' out of place on this site.

Admittedly, I haven't followed them closely and Schiff is wary of the strength of the current recovery, which is most likely more realistic that the surge in the market we are seeing.

But the real issue has to do with their prescriptions for improving the economy and what their priorities are. This is clearly where they would be expected to part company with the crowd on DU.

Maybe this is just another Libertarian post boring us from within.

[Grinchie]

4. Why read a History book.. It's old..

You listen to people that state factual events, and are able to tell the truth. That's why you listen to them.

Of course, most people would rather believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the infallibility of the Federal Reserve instead of actually thinking for themselves and learning how "these" people actually arrived at their conclusions.

Too much to ask from 90% of the Malnourished, psychicly diseased, dependant people that live in this country.

Welcome to DU, but you may want to stick around for a while and actually learn something before you try to poison the well.

[liberation]

5. Hu? Whaaaa....

care to explain what exactly was your point?

[TheWatcher]

6. That is exactly the kind of reaction I would expect from someone who values the False Paradigm that

CNBC wants you to believe in, more than actual reality.

You don't understand the point he was making because you don't have the first clue what the economic realities are in this country.

You probably believe this current rally is based on actual fundamentals, and dramatic changes to the REAL Economy, which would make this rally legitimate, instead of the fake, manipulated fantasy it is.

My suggestion? Quit drinking the Kool-Aid, stop listening to the Propaganda and taking it at face-value, Think for yourself and learn something, instead of posting smug little comments like this, ACTING like you know something.

We are being LIED to about the state of the economy in every single facet imaginable.

Just because you feel good about all the Propaganda you hear, does not mean things are actually getting better.

Hate to Burst Your Bubble (pun intended), but that's all this current rally is. A bubble that is not sustainable, and based on nothing fundamental and real.

As for his point, your post was a pretty good example of the 90% he was talking about.

You're one of them.

[truedelphi]

7. In a society where librarians spent time throwing out

"Old" books, the poster's attitude is unsurprisingly far too prevalent. We are living in a TV society, with only last night's news meme to worry our pretty heads over. So it is not surprising that most of our populace is dumber than nails. (Nails being the items used to build houses, ships and what have you, before Velcro and adhesives became the norm.)

You did a decent defense of Schiff, grinchie. He is not perfect, as he is selling gold to people. And so he needs a crisis to help him build his sales clientale.

In that sense, it is almost like Bernanke and Geithner are working for Schiff. I believe that Obama is going to have to rue the day that he naively (At best) or cynically (Perhaps criminally?) took on that crooked duo of scamsters. And that duo is doing Schiff a huge favor.

[Grinchie]

10. Their are things about Schiff that I disagree with, but he does repeat tings that are relevent

He's a capitalist, and believes that Oil is going to rise, and that Commodities will inflate as well. This is not so far out of the question, since it's basically the only system the Economic system has left to try and get some return. Thats ok, but the fundamentals are not there for me personally.

I am in a different postion than most people, and that is that I have made me preparations years ago, when I was knocked senseless by the Enron crisis and the DotCom bubble. I am no longer concerned with Fiat money, but on wealth in general. That means agricultural land, and the ability to create nearly everything for myself (Easier said than done, but not impossible). I no longer care so much about the price of Oil or Gold, because I am well fed, have enough means to afford Internet, electricy and a self determined lifestyle of study, work and invention.

I really don't know what people in the cities are going to be able to do for themselves, as they are totally dependant on imported food and water to even survive. As I am living in the Bay Area for a few more weeks, I'm taking note of all the increases in empty shops, reduced trafic, and general fear that is appearing in the general populace. I think people are finally coming to grips with the reality that without real jobs, food sources and economic stability, the cities really don't have that much to offer. There is so much industrial capacity going to waste in the Bay Area right now, it's hard to believe that anyone can be talking about "Green Shoots" or stimulus, or whatever, especially since this has been going on for 8 years. It will be very expensive to restart Industry here, as it has all been sold off, and the proceeds given to the Vultures on Wall Street, who have long since invested it in China or Mumbai.

I would not buy Gold, first off all, who will redeem it? Can I eat it? Will it purify water for me? Who has had the ability to manipulate the Gold Market for the last 40 years? Why in 2005 did they announc that Gold Futures could be resolved using assets of "Substantial Economic Equivalence"? Ok maybe I could use it electrically, but I can use Copper for that, or fish an old circuit board out of a dead computer.

Oil? The junkyards are full of machines that could be recycled into any machine we can imagine, and I can run any engine on any hydrocarbon using GEET technology, or the Pogue Carburetor, but I believe the Water Fuel Cell is the real threat to the Oil Industry, and they know it.

Nuclear? Why on earth would we use such a toxic and dangerous mechanism to Boil Water? I can do that with renewable resources or sunlight with less danger to the environment, or better yet, fall back to the Water Fuel Cell.

Schiff's analysis however are taken from hard facts and data that I have reviewed myself. I tend to agree with his analysis, although his capitalistic motives have to be taken into account. He is not allowed to include Alternate energy, or resource based Economy due to conflict of interests.

I personally think that Obama made a mistake with Geithner, and it will fail because the system is too far gone to reinflate. It's really too bad, but the facts are plain to see. The best thing is to prepare for the coming winter, and be joyful if they do somehow succeed, but it's doubtful. I could think of better ways to spend money than the Cash for Clunkers program, like helping out states like Hawaii and others that are in a tough spot right now. No matter, cause everyone will have a new car! Yay!

[Guero]

9. Nonsense ....

if you actually read my post you'll see that I questioned whether these clowns analysis would lead to policy prescriptions fitting the "progressive" interests of members on this site. Sorry, but they don't.

Please read below you leap.

[Grinchie]

11. Then why didn't your write that in the first place?

His Analysis is welcomed wherever their is intelligent discussion and review. You made a blanket statement alluding to Progressives not being able to make a judgement based on fact, and that it was incompatible with "Progressives"

You can think whatever you want, just don't expect everyone to agree with you, and don't think that you can make bold, unfounded statements for the members of Democratic Underground.

You call them Clowns, and we are supposed to agree with you? That's pretty funny.

How about you describe what makes him "Clownish", or exactly where he was wrong in predicting this collapse years ago.. Please, I'd like to know where you got your point of view.

[Guero]

12. I said what? I never said progressives were not able to make

a judgement based on fact. I just thought it odd that a progressive (what ever that means these days?) would promote 9-10 minutes of rambling commentary by a right-wing economist.

Again, you can twist what I say, but it doesn't make you right. I don't believe their ideology that focuses reifies 'free markets' and no government has much to offer in terms of understand the causes of the crisis or how to get out of it. You're certainly weelcome to disagree for whatever reason.

And I really don't care what you post, it's not like you're wasting paper and ink.

[Grinchie]

13. Ty[ical attempt to bail out on a losing post.. You can't relate anything that Schiff said

In fact, you ask me "What you said" Incredible.

Schiff basically tells it like it is, and you called him Clownish. He doesn't say a word about "Free Markets" as you assert, but speaks at length about the Economic Fraud foisted upon us to Keep the Bush Regime going.

Nice try on skating out of you own post, but I doubt you'll be able to say anything regarding this video that even relates to the point you feebly tried to make.

[edc]

8. Look for lead in the pipes and in the wine

It's not rocket science. It's simple: political and economic corruption, overpopulation, environmental degradation, climate change, natural disaster, endless war and an insane ruling elite who make their living from all of the above. It is nothing less than the traditional economic formula for the collapse of civilization. The pattern has repeated itself at least 20 times in the last 10,000 years. The difference is that this one will be global and unprecedented in its destructiveness.