TYT: Pathetic Attemps To Defend Israel In Flotilla Attack

[spiritual_gunfighter]

Run time: 12:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTcGmyIGKHY   Posted on YouTube: June 05, 2010 By YouTube Member: TheYoungTurks Views on YouTube: 312   Posted on DU: June 06, 2010 By DU Member: spiritual_gunfighter Views on DU: 3443

 
Pathetic indeed.

[theFrankFactor]

1. There are two Democratic parties, one that votes and one that gets paid to ignore those votes.

Pathetic Barney.

(can you find the typo?)

[ForeignSpectator]

6. the "ic"? Not sure though....

:shrug:

[izquierdista]

10. He dropped an "l"

As in Blarney Frank

[Capitalocracy]

15. "pathetic attemps"

it happens

BP STANDS FOR BALLOT POISON

Pledge not to vote for any candidates receiving campaign donations from BP in 2010.

Petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/bp2010/petition.html

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113423272036102

Twitter: @bpballotpoison

[truth2power]

2. Kabuki theater if I ever saw it - that exchange between Matthews and Frank...

someone had a come-to-Jesus moment with those guys,

But here's something even more disgusting...I walked by the TV just now, bringing my coffee into the computer room, and Sen. Cornyn is on, regurgitating EXACTLY THE SAME THING BARNEY FRANK SAID IN THAT CLIP, IN ALMOST THE SAME WORDS, ABOUT HOW EGYPT HAS A BLOCKADE, TOO. blah blah blah..

Like they got it off a fax machine. In fact, I think they do get their marching orders off a fax machine, and morons that they are, they don't even have the brains to put it in their own words.

I turned the TV off because I don't want to vomit up my cereal this morning. Excuse the reference, for those having breakfast right now.

Worthless, detestable, sycophants!! :nuke:

[Lena inRI]

3. Embarrassingly S H I L L I N G for the right-wing Israelis. . .W H Y ?

Barney Frank, Chris Mathews, Speaker Pelosi, President Obama, Secretary Clinton, Susan E. Rice, Anthony Weiner. . .W H Y ?

They're all logical people normally.

Can't just be M O N E Y incentives. Their compromised principles are so BLATANTLY OBVIOUS.

If the right-wing Israelis openly attack and kill civilians, you just know they are threatening our above so-called leaders covertly.

And to think conventional opinion trashes Italians for their uncontrolled mobsters.

I see N O difference between current Israeli bully tactics and mobster shakedowns.

What a terrifying stronghold our world is under . . .how are we and justice going to prevail?

Cenk, P L E A S E watch your back . . .always.

My utmost admiration and protective thoughts are with you.

Pace in terra. . .


:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[USA_1]

4. Blockade

Interesting how the far right traitors defend Israel's blockade which is the same shit the Soviets did to Berlin.

As for who is suffering, consider this:

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=643652

800,000 kids bearing brunt of Gaza blockade

Humanitarian agencies are being kept busy throughout Gaza in the wake of the blockade imposed by Israel in June 2007, which is now approaching its fourth year. The ghetto-type conditions in Gaza have been exacerbated by the three-week-long war that took place in late 2008 and early 2009, which according to UNICEF killed more than 1,400 Palestinians, of which 350 were children. Thirteen Israelis also died during the hostilities, including 3 civilians.

"Thousands of families are still living amid rubble and crumbling infrastructure due to the blockade that bars everything but limited supplies of essential humanitarian goods. Only 41 truckloads of construction materials (0.05 per cent of pre-blockade flows) have been permitted entry since the Gaza War," says UNICEF.

"Throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territories almost 12,000 children under five years old still die from preventable causes each year, as do more than 1,800 children under 12 months old," UNICEF said in a statement on its Web site. "Two thirds of households are not connected to a sewage network, meaning water is discharged into the environment partially or totally untreated. The education system has suffered with learning outcomes plummeting for the past two years."

The United Nations has been critical of the blockade saying it violates articles 33 (prohibition on collective punishment) and 55 (duty to provide food and health care to the occupied population) of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

[olegramps]

5. It a tragedy that religious convictions can blind a person to the truth.

[yava]

17. Frank's comparison with loss of life on S. Korean ship sunk by N. Koea

The difference is that the killed were armed soldiers of S. Korea military.
Doesn't make it right but the comparison with civilians shot in the head in international waters is inappropriate.

[docxray]

26. The sinking took place

in a protected South Korean inlet, where the SK ship and American ships were conducting a joint naval
exercise. Including undersea mine laying. The SK ship was actively pinging the area before being struck.
It didn't report any soundings.
There was an all out submarine hunt after the event by both the US and the SKs and they couldn't find
anything.

The pattern of damage of the SK ship suggested that it had been broken in two at the middle,
snapped like a twig from underneath. The fragments sank immediately. It was not the pattern of damage of a single torpedo, which holes the
hull and the ship sinks more slowly, listing toward the end which was holed. It could, however, be the pattern
of an undersea mine, far more powerful than a single torpedo, which got loose from its preposition on the
sea floor and started floating upward. The US Navy in fact had a special undersea mine tender in the area for the exercise.

This version of the story was reported
in the Japanese press, which reported that SOS Hillary Clinton in Japan at the time used the incident to pressure the former
Japanese prime minister to break his campaign pledge and allow the Marine base to remain on Okinawa.
He did so, and was forced to resign shortly after. This version was also known to the Chinese, who refused
to pile on NK although the US govt was pressuring them.

The SK President has stated that there will be no war on the Korean Peninsula. They do not have unequivocal
evidence that a midget submarine evaded all the US and SK defenses in this inlet, fired its torpedo while the target
ship was actively pinging the area, and miraculously evaded capture thereafter. The evidence points to something far different.

[hardtravelin]

55. "The pattern of damage of the SK ship suggested that it had been broken in two at the middle"

Modern torpedoes are designed to do just that. They explode underneath, creating a "bubble jet" that cracks the hull.

This is much more effective, and negates the heavy armor belts found on older warships.

Whoever fired that torpedo, it worked as designed.

[Bullet1987]

7. Can't believe this...but not at all surprising.

[Douglas Carpenter]

8. kick and recommend!!

[20score]

9. K&R

[abubalboola]

11. this is rather an emotional turmoil clip..

I watched the clip... (never really saw this guy, Cenk, before)..
I don't think Israel is innocent, but I think this clip is an example of too much emotion and just not enough facts.
He is very charismatic, very emotional, very cynical, very flowry in his talk, and I can't say a bad word about him... but guys, this is more of an emotional turmoil display then fact-based journalism...

[ooglymoogly]

13. s wrong place

[EFerrari]

22. No. His facts are solid, his analysis is spot on as are his conclusions.

Maybe you should go back and watch it again.

[sabrina 1]

60. People tend to get a bit emotional when human beings

are gunned down when on a humanitarian mission to bring relief to people who are being kept in a large ghetto and the world's governments up to now, have turned a blind eye.

Things do appear to be changing now since this atrocity by Israel against unarmed humanitarians. Some of those governments have found the courage to begin to take some long needed action to right this very wrong situation.

As for Cenk, he is right. I would like to see as much emotionalism on the side of right as we see on the side of wrong. Too many people worried that if they speak out they will be condemned. It's happened before in history, Cenk is on the right side of history on this and thankfully the world outside the U.S. appears to be moving in the right direction also.

[ooglymoogly]

12. I have always defended Barny through thick and thin;

That, expelled, just flew out the window on very crooked wings. His lack of logic and sock puppetry on this drastically important matter, I know, stems from adherence to a religion of, above any allegiance to nation, that is far beyond the dark ages and leads me to dismiss him as any kind of fair arbiter, of any kind, for justice; That which we elected him for. By this crooked supplication to another country, above his own country, he has become an asterisk in history, as nothing more than a soldier for powers that are so un-American he has become an enemy of those who hold justice dear. Goodbye Frank, it has been a rocky road defending you. I have just tossed those rocks to the ill wind that has overtaken your soul and pulled it into darkness.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

14. I think this should be it's own OP n/t

[ooglymoogly]

18. Thanx, done nt

[Crowman1979]

35. I knew Barney Franks was finished ever since he called last year's gay rights march in DC...

...a waste of time.

[Laughing Mirror]

56. Yes, that's what finally did him in for me too

I am grateful to have been able to participate at that event, and it was not a waste of time for me. Perhaps for ole Barney, too lazy to get his fat ass out there on that warm and beautiful fall day and show his support.

[Capitalocracy]

16. Flimsy excuses are all they can come up with because what they did was wrong!

That's the price of defending Israel 100% of the time, even when they're wrong, you have to become a hypocrite. K&R

BP STANDS FOR BALLOT POISON

Pledge not to vote for any candidates receiving campaign donations from BP in 2010.

Petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/bp2010/petition.html

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113423272036102

Twitter: @bpballotpoison

[WileEcoyote]

19. Clubbing Israel in the media will send huge donations to Republicans here.

Don't see anything particularly unreasonable with either what Frank or Mathews said. Think the world needs to tone down the rhetoric here. They will anyway in a week or two.

Shit happens. Israel will from time to time kick some serious butt. Women children, innocents, peace advocates? All caught in crossfire from time to time. Sometimes in the cross hairs.

Like the USS Liberty. Now THAT was a scandal.

But like I said it blows over because no one really wants to see the destruction of Israel. Not outside of Hamas which is a total fiend anyway.

Even Cenk who should know better and turn down the heat on Israel. He will soon i predict. His statements about Barney Frank are very regrettable. In fact up to this point Cenk's condemnations of Israel appeared to be routine. Like he was going through the motions and didn't really feel that into it.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

20. Nice try

But it's not working.

[Bullet1987]

21. He will soon because the MSM will not let him on being so critical of Israel

Israel deserves the criticism it is getting. The world is just now waking up to what is going on in Gaza. The incident itself is not the major controversy (outside of the people on board who were killed), it's what they were fighting for. It's not about being pro-Israel or anti-Israel...it's about Human Rights. Something the talking heads and apologists don't seem to care too much about. Even though people may not want to admit this here, Cenk is probably a little biased because he himself is Turkish. Does shit happen? Sure, but Israel has to stop doing things to shoot itself in the foot. No matter how you look at it, this was a bad move by Israel and made them look REALLY ugly. If people weren't killed, I don't think it would've caused that much of an outcry.

[EFerrari]

23. You're very free with the lives of others. n/t

[WileEcoyote]

24. Hamas is the lowest form of political leadership on the planet

And D/U posters have been playing right into their hand.

Plus, you keep pushing this issue and you will appear to be married to Hamas in November elections. That what you want?

Eventually Cenk will come around. I predict that in about a month he'll make up with Barney Frank. Frank is one of the best Congressmen we have.

This flotilla attack is all small potatoes. The Democrats dissing Israel do not speak well for us. Which is most of them. Time to take a time out and remember who your friends are.

Hamas ain't one of them.

[EFerrari]

25. And I predict you will be proved wrong on all counts.

The only entities not "dissing Israel" over the indiscriminate slaughter are Israel and Obama.

Time to take a time out and remember how small this planet is -- if for some reason your conscience, which should tell you that extra judicial executions are wrong, isn't kicking in.

[WileEcoyote]

27. Think about the past;

Did the bombing of Iraq's nuclear facility in 1981 have a lasting negative effect? I'll answer that one:

No

Give me time and i could point out a dozen cases where the Israelis engaged in what most would call "illegal military activities". Yet in all cases it quickly blew over.

Logically you'd think that the obliteration of Gaza neighborhoods in December 2008 would be the more severe "illegal activity". Yet today less than two years later we hardly mention it at all.

This one will blow over quickly too, and i fully expect Israel to do something similar again and again. Maybe I'm calloused. Frankly I don't much care how they handle the war between themselves and the Palestinians. I certainly trust them a lot more than Hamas.

In fact ALL Hamas has to do is to acknowledge Israel's right to exist. Even that asshole Arafat understood that. Meantime? All Hamas understands is force. The press may be treating Israel harshly today but rest assured that Hamas understood the "message" sent by the Israel commandos.

[EFerrari]

32. Nope. This won't blow over because the nutwing Israeli government is trying to paint this man as a

terrorist:



This doctor, that after he tended to downed IDF troops was shot multiple times in the stomach.

And, btw, Hamas has already offered to negotiate multiple times.

Not only Hamas but the world heard the message sent by the IDF. And the world is repudiating it.

[kas125]

45. The picture that haunts me is this one -

He was the same age as my youngest of three sons and he looks so much like my kid's best friend. My heart just breaks...

[rpannier]

31. Your subject line is laughable

So...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ramulux]

34. What are you talking about?

"Shit happens" isn't an excuse for anything at any time. Civilians got illegally murdered, this wasn't a case of accidental death, the Israeli navy murdered people in international waters on purpose.

The problem that Cenk has and everyone else here has is that Israel gets special treatment from us when they have proven over and over that they do not deserve it.

The reason this event is so important and is causing such a big outrage is because this is just another horribly obvious example of Israel acting like it is above the laws that the rest of the world have to follow.

[avaistheone1]

43. Let them send their blood money to the Republicans

as if the Republicans aren't ludicrous enough already.

Then the Republicans can fund their racism,their homophobia, their creationism and their ignorance with filthy bloody AIPAC money.

[ooglymoogly]

57. Color me dumbstruck. This is about the oddest comment I have

read on DU. This is not about Israel v Hamas. It is about, murder, piracy on the high seas, oppression and international law but most of all it is about dictatorial, apartheid and oppressive powers being defended by the U.S.

[ejbr]

28. Hamas sympathizers?

People are starving, babies are dying and he relegates these people of good will to that? What an ass.

[WileEcoyote]

29. Children starve as a direct result of Hamas, not Israel

And yet you implicitly support Hamas while dissing Israel.

Why the insanity?

Doesn't even do Democrats any good.

[ejbr]

54. The blockade results in the starving of children

why are you defending evil?

[SILVER__FOX52]

30. Thank you Cenk !

Excellant report. Please, keep up what you're doing.

[EFerrari]

33. Cenk has been very clear. Better than just about anyone. n/t

[subsuelo]

36. gotta love Cenk n/t

[AsahinaKimi]

37. [phone]

Cenk is the best!

[umtalal]

38. THANK YOU FOR TELLING THE TRUTH.

we will kick their ass indeed.

[abubalboola]

39. Cenk \ TTY are hardly any serious reference point

I'm watching Cenk at the TTY once in a while. quite entertaining. full of passion. flowry in speach. I see his point of view as a very personal one, very emotional one and I treat it with respect as such. But guys... please don't say this is NEWS or a serious reference point!
Cenk to political news, is like MTV presenters to Mozart! (they look good, they can talk about Mozart etc... but how much do they really understand it...)
He is young, good looking, charismatic.. but from here to really taking his opinion as a reference point that should be discussed seriously in a DU forum there is a long way.

To give an example of what IS an interesting reference point: See interview with Tony Blair: http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/06/06/g...
Watch it and see his knowledgable and balanced approach towards israel and palestine.

[ihavenobias]

40. Quote

"There’s nothing wrong with opinion media...we are opinion media. Unlike Fox, we don’t pretend our anchors and hosts are newsmen with no opinion. We never try to deceive the audience into thinking they are receiving neutral news when we are giving our opinion. There is truth in advertising." - Cenk Uygur

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/24/221124/993

[abubalboola]

41. Quote indeed; yet not directly relevant quote

I'll try to clarify.
I am familiar with this (and appreciate their honesty about this) but there are still issues with this statement:
1. when a TTY clip appears in DU, this statement is not attached and highlighted.
2. To find this statement, you need to look for it

but the bigger issue here is NOT this.
the bigger issue is that putting a TTY clip in DU automatically attaches Cenk\TTY to become a reference point for a serious discussion (I atleast treat DU as serious discussions).
Cenk to political news, is like MTV presenters to classical music he looks good, he is charismatic, entertaining, I enjoy seeing him talk... BUT... he does not really do any analysis but does mostly "hand-waving" which is a term that mathematician\scientists call non-satisfactory explanations that do not get to any concrete point.
He isn't getting to the bottom of anything. Just dealing with "exotic" tiny details.

so what IS a WORTHY reference point?
again, to give an example of what IS an interesting reference point: See interview with Tony Blair: http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/06/06/gps.blair.intv.gaza.cnn?hpt=T1

[ihavenobias]

44. I'm incredibly amused by your posts.

Very entertaining!

[abubalboola]

46. exemple of a SERIOUS reference point

please reply to this question: what do you think about Tony Blair's opinion?
See http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/06/06/gps.blair.intv.gaza.cnn?hpt=T1

[spiritual_gunfighter]

47. I am trying to understand what your post are trying to say

and I am a bit confused. But I do know you are dead wrong about Cenk and TYT. TYT is probably one of the most thoughtful and intelligent news programs out there, period. So again I am totally confused by what you are saying. You may not agree with Cenk (which is what I think is the real issue for you), but I dont think you can deny that he is intelligent and can break down complex issues, (like what he has done on the economy) so someone like me can understand.

[abubalboola]

50. this is what I am tryint to say:

I agree with all you said, except that I don't think this is a serious news channel.
My point is that a good DU discussion can probably evolve when an opinion expressed here (see Tony Blair and see the difference: http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/06/06/gps.blair.intv.gaza.cnn?hpt=T1) is the starting point, rather then Cenk\TTY.
I truly think that DU is a place where people can engage in a serious discussion (and not just vent out). As such, I would like to see the discussions evolve around more SERIOUS reference points.

I have only good things to say about Cenk \ TTY. but I just don't think that a discussion in DU can be constructive or serious when it evolves around Cenk is providing true passion and cynicism but not much more.

Would really like to see a discssion starting around Tony Blair's interview in the home page of DU... anyone can start this?

[rpannier]

62. Watched the video

Once again, he lies
The Hamas are the elected government of the Palestinians -- they won the last election
He claims the Hamas illegally occupy Gaza -- as the elected government they legally occupy all of Palestine
It was the opposition that refused to accept the new government and made demands

When bLiar was elected Prime Minister, had the Tory Party refused to accept defeat and made demands what would he have done?

[avaistheone1]

42. Makes sense to me.

Cenk is a consummate professional. I look forward to his opinions and I think he is quite fair minded. Cenk always makes his case based on a great deal facts and always provided valuable context, and facts in his news stories.

I am a big fan and very proud of his courageous stand in speaking out against the Israeli commandos slaughter of the innocent activists on their humanitarian mission to Gaza.

Cenk has stepped up to the plate where other liberal media seem to have lost their conscience and their voice regarding these atrocities.

A big shout out to Cenk. I've got your back.

k&r

[abubalboola]

48. undoubtedly a professional. but...

he is undoubtedly a professional. I look for his opinions too.
BUT... he is not a serious reference point when it comes a political discussion.

just like MTV presenters... professionals, opinionated... but would not take them as a serious reference point...

[cascadiance]

59. As a Turkish American AND one who's been informed he's NOT a serious reference point?

As someone myself who lived in Turkey for many years of my younger life, I find that offensive.

I find Cenk's comments a great insight in to why people like Chris Matthews and Barney Frank are diminishing themselves as a "serious reference point"...

Turkey an "Islamist regime"? COME ON!!! Do you know of ANY other real "Islamist regimes" that outlaw both women's head scarves and men's fez's that arguably were put in place to enforce secularism? If people were told they couldn't wear crucifixes, and someone else were to call our state "Christofascist" or something like that, they'd have a right to say that person was an idiot!

[EFerrari]

49. Tony Prufrock Blair, apologist for the empire?

Sweet jesus.

[rpannier]

52. Tony bLiar

That's way too laughable
bLair is one of the last people to turn to for anything...
Unless you want to reference a war mongering, nitwit

[abubalboola]

51. how to start a new DU discussion thread (Tony Blair's interview)?

Hi all,
I think the interview with Tony Blair deserves a discussion thread in DU, which appears in the home page.
Can anyone please help in creating this?

See http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2010/06/06/gps.blair.intv.gaza.cnn?hpt=T1

Thanks!

[ejbr]

61. Here's how you start a post

Go up to the pencil picture, "Post" in between "My DU" and "Mark" in the menu at the top of the page. Then decide which forum you want to include it in. Generally, it asks you to include (cut/paste) the first four paragraphs of the article, share the link, and give any comments you want prior to posting.

I also have to disagree with Cenk being a good reference point. He is one of the few commentators that at least ATTEMPTS to look at both sides of an issue prior to committing to a side. And he will also admit when he is wrong. Anyhow, I hope this helps. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[howard112211]

53. So Israel wants to be treated like North Korea?

Really, that is what they want? :shrug:

[KansDem]

58. Man, what a dumb-ass fest!!!

I agree with Cenk for all the reasons he cited, but I was particularly baffled by Matthews' statement at 4'12" about how the Israeli forces were getting beat up with citizens with clubs.

Really?

So highly-trained Israeli military forces with state-of-the-art weaponry can get clobbered by civilians defending themselves with sticks?

DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH. ASSHOLES!!! :grr: