HANDCUFFED UCLA STUDENT REPEATEDLY TAZED BY COPS!!!

[StraightDope]

Run time: 06:53 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JGlvEcPmug   Posted on YouTube: November 16, 2006 By YouTube Member: turbanhead Views on YouTube: 213244   Posted on DU: November 16, 2006 By DU Member: StraightDope Views on DU: 10219

 
Yeah, the kid was a little over the top. But this is just some sick, sick shit right here. If you go to the following website http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960 you can get more info.

Apparently, he refused to show his ID in the library, either on principle or because he didn't have it, and as he was leaving, a cop grabbed his arm, provoking the reaction from the student that you see in the beginning of the video.

[lovuian]

1. That was freakin Horrible

This is extremely scary stuff

[mcg]

46. Daily Bruin: Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers

The comments at youtube suggest that the student was Iranian, I don't know if that's true.
If it is true, that just might have something to do with this.

The incident hit the local news stations in the LA area.

The Daily Bruins article:

BREAKING NEWS: Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers

Incident occured around 11:30 p.m. in the Powell Library CLICC computer lab

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well. ...

http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958

[Emillereid]

117. This should lay to rest any doubt that we live in a police state!

I don't understand why the other students didn't come to the kid's aid. They certainly could have overwhelmed the police. Sure they probably would have ended up arrested -- but they would have made a powerful statement against the abusive actions of these so called cops.

In the LA Times I read the mealy-mouth reaction from the UCLA administration -- they should have unequivocallly come to this kid's aid -- they are supposed to protect the students, not permit pigs with tazers in the library.

UCLA students should shut the school down and demand changes in policy so that something like this NEVER happens again.

I hope the kid wins a gazillion dollar lawsuit against the pigs and the school!!!

[David Dunham]

2. These cops ought to be tazered after what they did.

[lazyriver]

3. I saw this at C&L a little while ago and one thing really

stuck with me. How many times did the cops demand that he "stand up"? There were at least a half dozen cops on the scene and they could easily have carried him out once he was in cuffs thus avoiding an ugly scene that could have even led to rioting by many of the obviously disturbed students witnessing the whole thing.

But no. Instead they tazed him at least four times and maybe as many as six based on his frantic screams. The whole time they kept demanding that he "stand up or you'll get tazed again". To me it seemed like an attempt to break his will and get him to do what they wanted. Their goal should have been to remove him from the scene and put him in custody but instead they wanted him to say he saw five fingers held in front of his face when they were holding up only four.

Sickening display of abuse of power. Say hello to YouTube "officers".

[Sweet Freedom]

4. And then

they ended up carrying him out of the library anyway.

[lazyriver]

8. Exactly

This was not about making an arrest. It was not about enforcing law. It was about making a point...a horribly painful completely excessive point that they own him and all of us as well.

[lovuian]

19. I don't think he could stand up

after being repeatedly tazered
The muscles are stunned thats the purpose of a tazer to immobilize

[Sweet Freedom]

57. I wondered about that...

and surely the cops (security guards?) knew that. So they tortured him for five minutes, and then carried him out.

[mcg]

47. They were torturing him.

The guy was going to leave anyway, but they grabbed him.
He couldn't get up because they were tasering him and
they had the gall to say 'stand up' and use that as an
excuse while they were preventing him from standing up.
They could carried him out, which as you said, they
ended up doing anyway, or they could have simply let him
leave in the first place, which he was about to do.

The comments at youtube suggest his is Iranian. Is this true?

[TheBaldyMan]

48. His name looks Iranian but he had US accent

he could be Iraqi or from around that area.

It sounds like he was repeatedly tasered for being brown-skinned in a library.

[Sweet Freedom]

58. Yes, Iranian. And now pressing charges (saw on DU this a.m.) /nt

[lumpy]

107. He is a United States citizen.

Iranian ethnicity.

[Sweet Freedom]

113. Correct

I apologize. I knew that and obviously I did not make that clear in my post. Duh.

[peace13]

5. I agree with you, it was sickening

Half way through I thought they should call an ambulance and be done with it. So sad, Kim

[StraightDope]

6. Not to metion that he COULDN'T stand up!

You ever been tazed? Yeah, me neither. But I HAVE gotten hit with a 440v mutiple-amp jolt on a four-phase commercial power system. I must have the world's strongest heart, because the electricity fused & melted my wire cutters into a blob, and yet I didn't die. The guy I was with said that I was laying on the ground smoking. But that's beside the point... The point is, not only could I not get up, I couldn't move a muscle. It was even hard to breathe for a few minutes. If getting tazed is anything like that, then there is NO FUCKING WAY that the kid could have stood up under his own power.

Fucking Pigs!
:mad:

[AndyA]

9. That's what I kept thinking during the video.

Perhaps the guy COULDN'T stand up. I heard it takes more than just a couple of minutes to recover from being slammed with a tazer. He would have been shaky at best, and could have only stood up with help. Plus, those big ole officers that were abusing/torturing holding him couldn't lift him up anyway?

[lazyriver]

11. I've never been tazed or even seriously shocked...

thankfully. However, my best friend's brother is a cop and volunteered to get tazed in a demonstration during training on use of that equipment. He said it was so horribly painful that he would only use it to defend his or someone else's life. He also said he lost all voluntary muscle control for a minute or so after they hit him with it. It didn't look like that student was going to kill anybody.

Sorry to hear about your near death experience. Glad you're still with us.

[file83]

40. I'm right there with you StraightDope!! This dog in my video says "Fucking Pigs!" too...

...hopefully you'll dig what I put together:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZCqezdKWog

Just for jokes, but I heed the message!

[Joe Chi Minh]

7. All for an ID card in a public library! What a bunch of idiots.

How did they ever get accepted by the police force?

As you point out, lazyriver, not an ounce of common sense or discretion.

[lazyriver]

14. How would these cops react in a real emergency

when confronted with someone who was actually dangerous? Makes ya feel real safe, huh?

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. Probably sh*t themselves.

[sasha031]

15. when Michael Moore had his show on CBS yrs ago

he did a segment on a test cops have to pass n the academy. He had this one man turned down because he was too intelligent. So Mike was teaching him how to dumb down, it was amusing.

I don't want to be prejudice against the police force, but things like this keep happening....

I hope this thug cops go down big time!

[Divine Discontent]

102. WOW, ME TOO!

I was NOT hired at a grocery store in rural Ohio because my answers to a new psychology test they decided to implement showed that I was too knowledgable about safety/security/theft, and I was told, "sorry, your answers aren't what we're looking for".

The "retarding" of America. I told the idiot middle manager that I won 1st place in district competition in DECA (high school) and that's why I know my stuff.

Little did I know I'd be "rewarded" for my excellence in learning the curriculum.

HA! America's law and business situation right now is such a f'n JOKE.

[marshall]

67. not a public library

This is not a public library, it is a university library. The focus and the clientele is much different. This situation is horrible and what happened was definitely excessive, but personally I would have been very frightened if I were one of the other students. The campus security has an obligation to protect the student body.

I'm not sure what I would do in my university library if a student started ranting and screaming. We have had students refuse to be quiet in study areas, saying they pay for the library and they will do whatever they want in it.

Perhaps training in conflict resolution would be something the university should look into. Unfortunately the video doesn't show what lead up to the police being called, and I would like to hear what the student worker who asked the patron for his ID in the first place has to say.

[Crim_n al]

69. Yes, the students would have ended up terrified ... of the police.

When PIGS act like that, no-one seeing them will be able to trust them or turn to them for help again.
Having thugs in control pushes the population into thuggery.

[marshall]

77. I wish the video had started earlier

I would have liked to have seen the exchange between the student worker and the patron when she asked him for his ID and he refused and then refused to leave. What happened that prompted her to call the campus police? Did she feel threatened? Did she feel other students were in danger? Was he being noisy and keeping the other students from studying? The video starts in the middle of the story.

[Crim_n al]

81. By the time the police arrived with tasers,

this guy was already quietly walking out of the library with his backpack.

(according to the Bruin newspaper.)

It he'd done anything threatening or illegal before then, I'm certain it would have been reported.

If he told the librarian to go f... herself, when she singled him out to ask for ID while he was quietly using a computer, (and there is no reason to believe he did,) that is no reason to assault and torture him.

[marshall]

83. He looked out of control to me

At the beginning of the video, before the tasering began, he was screaming like a madman.

I'm with everybody who doesn't understand why it had to come to tasering. Why can't they just pick him up and carry him out? Maybe he was clinging to furniture or fighting them, he is not visible in the first part of the video. I suppose student testimony will bring more details to light.

[Crim_n al]

91. He had already been tasered before the video began.

that is both why the student started videotaping, and why he was "screaming like a madman".

When those police arrived at the library, the victim was quietly leaving the library, carrying his backpack. They didn't need to do anything, as he had committed no crime.

The trouble began when a cop grabbed him and would not let him go. He objected, verbally, and they began tasering him. Then they handcuffed him, and continued to taser his backside, using the fact that he was not getting up off the floor as an excuse to keep tasering him.

Tasers are designed to immobilise the muscles and make a person incapable of moving for anything up to 15 minutes ... when they don't kill, as any cop should know. But, incapacitated, lying on his front, and with his hands cuffed behind his back, they saw the fact that he didn't jump up and leave as an excuse to keep tasering him, over and over.

Some of us here object to torture, some here will go to any lengths to justify it.

[marshall]

99. How long does it take him to leave?

I am not condoning torture, and I do think things went too far. I don't know why they couldn't just pick him up or even drag him out so that the other students would be safe.

Can you give the link to the information about the tasering before the video began? I am most interested in hearing what the other observers have to say. I would like to know why he was still in the process of leaving when the police arrived. He should have left when the library worker first told him to leave, and after that point he was breaking the law and the police when they did arrive were justified in arresting him (but not un-necessarily tasering him).

[Ka hrnt]

118. Agreed for the most part

He was behaving like a lunatic. As to why they didn't pick him up, I'd guess the screaming like a madman and the "DON'T TOUCH ME!!!" might have had something to do with it. If you choose to disobey an officer of the law, you better be prepared to accept the consequences. I'll wait for the internal investigation before passing judgment.

[Canuckistanian]

68. Good thing he didn't have an overdue book

If people can be tasered for these tiniest of infractions, imagine what they would do if they were told a group of protesters were trying to take over the country?

The cop with the taser should be fired, sued into bankruptcy and forbidden to enter the untiversity again.

[Crim_n al]

17. Tasing removes your co-ordination.

After tasing you are unable to stand up, because of the disruption to the nerves controlling your muscles. Add the shock and the intense agony you have just experienced, and co-operation is no longer possible. Any policeman using a taser should be aware of this, and, if not, has no right to be touching the damn thing.

A taser is a non-lethal self-defense weapon that uses compressed nitrogen to shoot two tethered needle-like probes at an assailant in order to deliver an electric shock.

The probes travel at a speed of 135 feet per second (41 meters per second) with a maximum reach of 15 feet (4.5m). When the probes attach to the attacker's clothes or skin, an electric shock passes between them, through the body, incapacitating the assailant's neuromuscular system. The attacker will lose all control and coordination. The taser will continue to apply the electrical charge in an auto-timed sequence of an initial charge of several seconds followed by many short bursts. This prevents the assailant from recovering from the initial shock and removing the probes. During this event the user can abandon the taser on the ground and escape.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-taser.htm

And tasers are far from safe. Since 2001, more than 70 people are reported to have died in the USA and Canada after being struck by M26 or X26 tasers, with the numbers rising each year.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR511392004

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. Could the devil himself have thought up a more twisted, cruel and evil

method of restraint? Difficult to imagine he could.

They put these in the hands of people, many of whom (though not all of course) are drawn to the kind of position of power afforded by membership of the police force, for all together the wrong reasons: sadism and/or self-aggrandisement. Yet - I don't know what the situation is in the US - in the UK, women are not allowed to carry anything like Mace to ward off a rapist assailant.

[Roland99]

112. That was my first thought. Just carry the guy out! He wasn't a threat!

[sasha031]

10. what county is this? our we in central America in the 80's

this s so sick, the cops should be put in a cage and tazed for an hour then prosecuted and sued to the max!

[ixion]

12. this is what happens when you give law enforcement unbridled power

it's freakin' unconstitutional, and it should be stopped. :grr:

[indepat]

39. It's what happens in totalitarian societies and tens of millions of Amurikkkans love it

:mad:

[Steepler0t]

13. Terrible screams

Why did his fellow students stand around all passive and ask for officers info?


It would be time to make some fucking bacon.

This shit makes me so mad, I kinda wish I didn't watch it now.



^^ That's what those fascists deserved

Seriously, if the college kids will not fight back anymore what chance is there?

And here I was in a good mood today :mad:

[Bonobo]

16. You should see all the apologists in GD talking about this...

[StraightDope]

20. Do you have a link to the thread?

n/t

[Bonobo]

21. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2733164&mesg_id=2733164

[StraightDope]

23. Thanks, and while I still have the chance, check my thread in GD

"Some of you disgust me."

[Felinity]

28. I checked out that thread

Hard to believe it is on DU.

One comment said "My opinion of the incident in the library is that the police didn't handle it very well but the student was very foolish and brought it all on himself. He'll live." posted by DemoDemoCratCrat

BULL FUCKING SHIT!

I knew a woman who was substitute teaching in a High School when a large, male student came up to the front of the class and started losing it, threatening her. She remained calm, spoke to him about needing to be in control, and instructed him to return to his seat and they would just move on. No one was hurt, no help was needed.

This situation escalated because the officers were either mean bastards, violent by nature, or steroid users (you know how they like to bulk up at the gym). Or, possibly just highly incompetent and/or untrained. At no time did they attempt to de-escalate the crisis that they engendered. They should have known better, and tried to quiet and calm the whole situation down. They had no reason to believe anyone was in any danger, except from them.

But I guess this guy's going to think twice about unauthorized use of a (partially) public-funded library. Imagine if he had overdue book fines, they would have bashed his head in.

What the hell is going on here at DU?

[athena]

53. He's suing big-time.

I just posted the LAT article in LBN. He's Iranian-American and very conscious of his rights as an American citizen.

Also, his use of the library wasn't unauthorized. It turns out he had his ID with him but refused to show it because he felt he was being singled out for his Middle-Eastern appearance. He has a constitutional right to refuse "unreasonable search and seizure."

[AX10]

94. Great graphic!

:thumbsup:

[Gidney N Cloyd]

18. These campus cops are the guys who weren't good enough to make LAPD.

[smoogatz]

38. Yep. And that's saying something

given LAPD's long history of racism and brutality.

[BlueStorm]

22. Bookmarking

It was hard to see the video but I am glad that whoever filmed this had the incentative to do so.

Blue

[soulcore]

24. Kicked and bookmarked

Cuz this is what fascism really looks like.

"Papers please. No? Fine, we'll just taze you. *zap."

[understandinglife]

25. Ditto. ...

BE AMERICA. ---

[Crim_n al]

70. I'm sorry they had the incentive (cause) to film this ...

It's a good thing they had the initiative to film it, though. ;)

[smiley_glad_hands]

26. Conservative's influence on higher education.

Don't have a student id, get tazed. The fruition of horowitz's (sp) dream, he must be happy today.

[AX10]

90. Conservatives are too blame for this.

[Yukari Yakumo]

27. Is this the LAPD again?!?

Isn't it like the THIRD time they've been caught on tape using excessive force in less than 6 months? There's no telling how many incidents that weren't caught on tape and uploaded to Youtube.

Something tells me that band of pigs is rotten to the core.

If I were there, I would've kicked their asses, even if the effort were completely futile. But to Hell with the consequences, enough is enough and something must be done.

[cui bono]

45. It's not LAPD it's UCPD, the campus police. n/t

[Felinity]

29. Too bad there weren' a couple of Iraq veterans in the crowd

I have a feeling they would not have stood by for this crap after risking their lives for "our freedom.'

[progressoid]

32. "To Protect and Serve"

:sarcasm:

[slowry]

33. Real-world training exercise...

... by the NWO :tinfoilhat:.

[Greyskye]

34. "Move back or you'll get tazed too!"

"Move back or you'll get tazed too!"

Comment by one of the 'police' at the very end of the video. These guys are real winners.

[file83]

41. Those cops are insecure children hiding behind granted authority...

...they aren't being beaten to death NOT because we are afraid...only because those college kids are civilized. That's the ONLY reason.

[mom cat]

35. This is an outrage!

Police brutality for not showing a God dzmned library card!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

36. youtube is fascism's worst nightmare.

they are going to have to do something about these brutality viral videos, and fast.

police brutality depends on silence and lack of exposure.

this is the only time you'll ever find a cop in a library by the way.

[Ignacio Upton]

119. I'm surprised UCLA hasn't threatened to sue YouTube for showing the video

n/t.

[meuniermr]

37. Typical LAPD, no news here IMO..

..:SARCASM:

[Daphne08]

42. This is unforgivable! n/t

[Left Coast Lynn]

43. That may as well just be audio

I hear cops say 'stand up' about 200 times and someone scream once in a while. You can't see a damn thing.

[baldguy]

44. How should an officer of the law enforce his authority?

First of all, it's not HIS authority. It's the authority of the people he has sworn to protect. The symbol of this authority is the badge he carries, not his weapon.

Using a weapon against someone who poses no threat to you or the people around you is the action of a thug.

[tbyg52]

49. I knew stuff like this was gonna happen

as soon as Tazers came on the market. They were marketed as an alternative to guns, but I knew they'd be used for general control of people, at least in some cases. Lack of proper training, in part, I'm sure. Plus it's just so *easy* to use them. People who use them like this need to have the book thrown at them. Thank god for YouTube. Thank god for anything that sheds some light on what's going on.

[Supply Side Jesus]

51. i can personally count 4 lives saved by a tazer.

knife or gun wielding suspects tazed not shot. If those tazers were not carried in my jurisdiction, they would be dead.
Instead they are alive and well.
One serving Life
One serving 15
One serving 10
One serving 12

[Casablanca]

85. Yeah, and ... ?

The student didn't have a gun or a knife. He was trying to leave when they first tazed him. The campus cops were intending to harass and torture him before carrying him out, which is what they had the opportunity to do in the first place.

The campus cops don't have a case, and I hope the victim becomes a millionaire at their expense.

[Supply Side Jesus]

93. and.... I was responding to a post

saying that tazers have killed peolpe. I wished to counter that by say I personally know 4 lives saved by a tazer. yeah?
He'll be very rich.

[tbyg52]

115. Actually, I didn't say Tasers kill people

Although I'm sure in some cases they have. I said that I knew as soon as they came out that the temptation to use them inappropriately would be very strong. I plead guilty to taking up a couple of posts to state the obvious... ;)

[rman]

125. Amnesty International counts 150 taser deaths since 2001

Police Taser, kill Boulder man
http://www.campaignagainstthetaser.com/police_taser_kill_boulder_man

Shouting teen shot with stun gun, dies next day
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/31/stun.gun.death.ap/index.html

Another Taser Death - In Clearwater
Since 2001, more than 150 people nationwide have died after they were shocked by Tasers, according to an Amnesty International report released last week.
http://tampabay.injuryboard.com/defective-products/another-taser-death-in-clearwater.php

The Taser Gun's Physical Effect
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4571976

Multiple tases may kill
http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/story?oid=oid%3A283069

[Supply Side Jesus]

50. In my Department, Tazer usage while suspect is handcuffed is a no no.

There are lot more viable methods to get cooperation while one is handcuffed.
Now, of course their use of force scale might allow this.
I would have applied a mandibular angel, or infra-orbital pressure point control. Also clavicle notch is very effective. These cause intense pain with no injuries or nerve damage. Or the good old iron wrist lock works really well. That being said I felt the officers needed to secure the situation better. You want my badge number? Ask after I'm done with this uncooperative asshole and then I'll have my Sgt. chat with you. In the meantime get the hell back. When dealing with those situations you need to secure the scene including the suspect. That shit wasn't secured. I would have been afraid that some students, friends, a significant other would intervene resulting in more unpleasantness. You never know who'll jump in. Now that being being said, those are college students and I usually deal with street gangs, none the less the number one priority is securing the public's safety, and making sure your ass goes home alive. Whatever the result, they need to review their policies, make the appropriate changes, and make sure that shit don't happen again. As for the suspect, he needs to stop acting like an asshole and bring his fucking id card with him in the future and stop giving such a hard time to the cops who are doing their duties. Yes, alot of cops are pricks about their jobs, more than likely they acted like ones.

We're not all dirty.

[Felinity]

54. I appreciate your comments

But in this particular situation, the student was in the process of complying when an officer grabbed him by the arm, an aggressive act in the context of a library full of students (this is not a gang member on the streets of LA). The kid did not handle the situation well, but the officers should have backed off and had everyone calm down. Instead they tazered and hand-cuffed him. That was bad.

What was really BAD and STUPID was their allowing the situation to escalate from there. What was the big rush? Why all the screaming to get him to stand up and get him out of there. You would think he had a bomb strapped to him. What was the big hurry? Why was everyone screaming? If you want to defuse a situation, you speak in a calm voice and STOP assaulting someone with a lethal weapon.

The student was recalcitrant, but the officers were way over the top. They never made any attempt at civilized communication with him. They failed to handle the situation with the dignity and civility that was called for in a Official University Library ID Card Investigation (sounds silly, doesn't it?)

[Supply Side Jesus]

92. It doesn't sound silly

You are right, these officers (if the story is true) totally overreacted and created a really bad situation. YET, I dont fault them for enforcing the rules, even if it is just an id card. Think of all the creepy crazy shit that goes on at colleges. The guy might have been a rapist for all they know. Yet, they were idiots for tazing a handcuffed person, and will probably face criminal charges.

[Felinity]

114. You are right about the need for diligence

It's true, he could have been a bad guy.

Now that further information comes to light, it is obvious he was asked to show his ID while all the white (potential terrorists) were not. I had originally thought that all students were ID'd.

In my opinion, if the rule in the library is that ID's are required after 11 pm, it should be routine for ALL students to show ID's at that point. They could ring a bell of make an announcement; then students could display their ID's as the Community whatever people do a quick run through. What's the point of spot-checking? THAT is silly, I say.

What has also come to light is the reason they tazered him is that he went limp, in a effort to appear NON-THREATENING. Would you use a lethal weapon on someone who offers ZERO resistance? If so, it would be an effective means of getting homeless people off the street. "You can't do nothing around here, Bud." ZAP

[StraightDope]

59. Did you even watch the Goddamned video?

I'm guessing not, otherwise I would hope that you would agree that a few burly officers were certainly capable of carrying this kid out of the library without having to taze him repeatedly whilst handcuffed. The only danger that these fucking pigs were in was from the crowd as a result of torturing this kid for all to see. So, is it common for you to threaten violence on a concerned bystander, OFFICER? Do you usually force someone who has just been electrocuted to get up and walk under their own power, when you could have just as simply removed the offender from the premises without using weaponry, OFFICER?

I'd like to hear what you have to say, because from where I stand, it sounds like you're MIGHTY dismissive of the egregious nature of this abuse.

[Supply Side Jesus]

87. actually i did watch the goddamn video

and it was nothing but peoples backs and a lot of screaming.
I'm guessing you didnt even read my post. I never excused these officers for what they did. Re read my post and get a clue.

[StraightDope]

95. So, if you watched the video, then it shouldn't be too hard to answer...

The following questions.

Was the repeated tazing of an individual who refused to walk under his own power justified? Yes or no? Why or why not?

Was it appropriate by your standards for the officer at the end of the video to threaten concerned bystanders with violence for attempting to get his employment identification information?

I don't want to hear any bullshit about how "A cop's life is on the line", or "He could have been armed", or "He was acting like an asshole."

This is VERY simple. Now, are you going to be a man and answer me honestly, or are you a coward?

[Supply Side Jesus]

101. not to hard.

Was the repeated tazing of an individual who refused to walk under his own power justified? Yes or no? Why or why not?
Absolutely not, unless there is a perceived threat towards an officer. Pretty hard to justify considering he was cuffed.

Was it appropriate by your standards for the officer at the end of the video to threaten concerned bystanders with violence for attempting to get his employment identification information?
The officer should have just referred them to a commanding officer. "Speak to my Sgt." would have sufficed. The Sgt. would know who the officers were, because I can guarantee a report was written on this. Threating violence escalated the situation. A stern "stay back" is how I would have handled it unless the situation change for the worse.

I don't want to hear any bullshit about how "A cop's life is on the line", or "He could have been armed", or "He was acting like an asshole."

I doubt a cops life was on the line until the point a crowd was forming and yelling at them. Thats some scary shit. I saw in another post where a person advocated violence to help the suspect. After handcuffing he should be searched to insure he wasn't armed. Even if the suspect was acting like an asshole it doesn't excuse the officers actions. YET, does acting like an asshole help the situation?

This is VERY simple. Now, are you going to be a man and answer me honestly, or are you a coward?
I deal with street gangs, murders, rapists, child molesters,...blah blah. I sure I wouldn't back down from a simple little exchange on the internet.

None the less, I am happy to give some insight on what peace officers have to deal with and how they should deal with it. NOW, I am still considered a rookie, so I definitely don't know everything. But if you have any questions I am always happy to answer to the best of my ability. A Peace officers job is probably one of the hardest to have. A Law officer's suicide rate is <b>very</b> high compared to other occupations along with divorce rates. We have to hold the child after CPR failed to revive them. Pick up body pieces from a car wreck. Deal with the drunk idiot who wants to fight everyone. Try to make sense of a drive by shooting. Enforce insane and ridiculous drug laws. And return home and are told to act normal. BUT it <b>doesn't</B> excuse us from abusing powers trusted to us.

[StraightDope]

110. Amen.

SupplySideJesus, I egregiously misjudged you, and I sincerely apologize for that. You are not the person that I hastily and erroneously assumed that you were. I truly apologize, from the bottom of my heart.

You are definitely right about one thing... Policing is one of the most taxing duties. I know from my own previous research that your job does indeed entail the highest suicide AND divorce rates of any profession. You are 100% correct in stating that none of these officers' safety was threatened until they chose to escalate the situation of their own accord.

Perhaps most importantly, your calm, measured reponses speak volumes about your character. Pardon the expression, but you are one of the "good" ones. The men who tortured this student for all to see most certainly are not in the same category.

Does acting like a grade-A asshole help the situation? No. But neither does the public exhibition of sadism help the situation. I'm very glad that you admit that these men, sworn to uphold the safety of the public broke their oath, in the worst possible way. My only hope is that you realize that situations such as these are all too common; in the same vein, I hope that you realize that this MUST NOT be tolerated in a society predicated upon the rule of law.

I think that you do know these things, and I also think that you have the most true desire to serve the public in the correct manner. Again, I apologize for having rushed to judgement, and I would be proud to call you a friend.

SD

[marshall]

111. Isn't that the point being made?

Because we just see their backs, we don't know the answer to those questions. I wonder too why they didn't pick him up. But the officers repeatedly told him not to fight--maybe he was resisting too much and they felt if they picked him up he would be a danger to them, himself, or others. While the patron does say "I'm not fighting", he also says "I'm leaving" and continues to stay in the library. It's hard to tell what exactly is going on, which is why I'm anxious to hear eye witness testimony, and from both those who entered into the fracas by arguing and those who stayed behind.

I did find it almost paradoxical tha the whole thing started because an individual refused to show his ID and devolved to the onlookers demanding the ID of the officers.

[slowry]

120. I've watched this video countless times and...

... the guy is clearly in a state of panic and terror, his worst fears about how he might be treated as a brown man being realized to a large degree, some of it perhaps a little paranoid. That being said, if you listen closely, he handles himself remarkably well, even trying to reason with the officer's and those around him -- hardly inciting anyone. Time after time, if you watch this video closely, the officers escalate a situation which was defused from the start. The man is on the ground for the entire duration of this horror.

[marshall]

121. I agree with that

The officers do seem to escalate the events, but in a sense that is part of what they are tasked with doing--getting him out of the library and away from the students. They have to act in some way.

There are ways to approach a person to avoid making them even more out of control, but even so sometimes they have to act aggresively to contain someone who may become a danger. I don't have a problem with anything the officers did other than the tasering, and perhaps with later testimony there will be an explanation that makes some sense.

[slowry]

122. Nah .

My point is they didn't take the steps necessary to have a peaceful solution. They, for whatever reason, whether they didn't like his attitude, or felt he wasn't satisfying their ridiculous demands ("COMPLY WITH THE ORDER! COMPLY WITH THE ORDER!"), decided to punish him brutally and repeatedly. They were enflaming a situation which was innocent from the start, even assuming the student originally refused to leave. They acted violently towards someone who whose most dangerous action was to sit still, or scream in terror.

[marshall]

123. I'll have to reserve judgment on that

Until I know more fully what happened before the video began I can't make a judgment on what exactly the police and the student did that lead to what we see in the video, since it does appear to begin in the middle of something.

[Heywood J]

62. Huh?

"As for the suspect, he needs to stop acting like an asshole and bring his fucking id card with him in the future and stop giving such a hard time to the cops who are doing their duties. Yes, alot of cops are pricks about their jobs, more than likely they acted like ones.

We're not all dirty."

You may not be "dirty", but the attitude of 'show me your papers or I'm justified in tazing you, now stop being an asshole' attitude tells me a lot.

The fact he has a login ID (as most university systems I've ever seen require) should be proof he has reason to be in there - someone would have to prove he was there without authorization. If he was stumbling around drunk or trying to steal shit, they're justified in approaching him and detaining him. The last time I checked, using a computer was not illegal - nor was it justified in using force. I have not heard from any report that he attempted to endanger any officer or any bystander.

Campus security is composed of glorified rent-a-cops. Unless they have badges given to them when they are sworn in as peace officers or officers of the court, they have no authority beyond what any ordinary citizen has. Ordinary citizens are not allowed to assault other citizens with tazers unless there's a self-defense issue - and even then, only in certain states.

[Supply Side Jesus]

88. agreed....but

We have a saying where I work. "you going to bet you house on it?" These guys weren't. Are they going to bet that he wasn't some rapist hanging out after hours hoping to get his rape on? The fact is, just because he was using a login doesn't mean he was a valid student. Would you bet your house on it? I wouldn't. They probably lost their house now anyway for a clear case of excessive force/assault.
I never said they were justified. In fact I said the opposite. They probably were pricks, and the suspect reacted.

[martymar64]

124. So what is the responsibility of citizens witnessing police breaking the law?

These campus "cops" were committing assault and battery on this student and threatening assault on students protesting their illegal actions. Because thes "policemen" had badges does not give them carte blanche to assault and batter and TORTURE people and violate the law themselves. IMO, the students should have taken physical action to subdue these thugs and prevent them from further torturing this student whose only crime was protesting his racial profiling and then trying to peacefully leave.

[Crim_n al]

71. This "unco-operative ass-hole" was leaving the library

before the police even touched him.
And, as he was then quietly leaving, and there was no reason to believe he had committed a crime,
there was no reason to even touch him, let alone handcuff him.

As you go on to list the ways you would have caused pain to him after handcuffing, I really can't see you an being any better than the jerks shown on film.

It sounded as though he had a phobia of being touched, and there was no need to touch him.

By the way, I've known wonderful cops who cared about the public and worked hard to do their jobs well.
They all left the force. The corruption and hatred of the public amongst their fellow officers became more than they could endure.

[Supply Side Jesus]

89. right.......

"IF" the suspect was passive resisting then the officer needs to use appriate amount of force to gain cooperation. "IF" the suspect was leaving and cooperating then this is tantamount to assault.

How exactley am I not any better? If a suspect is passive resisting, what I am suppose to do, just let him sit there? Let him do whatever the hell he wants because thats what he wants? Why bother having any police at all then? "Beat the cops? Just passive resist!" Pressure point is the safe way to gain complaince. I "went on in ways" to show there were better ways to handle the situation, guess it went over alot of heads.

And you are right, alot of cops have a disdain for the public. Some become so jaded they forgot why they became cops. I took a note from Ghandi and became a cop to protect and serve my fellow man, becuase I believe it is the highest reward one can have. Helping your fellow man. But I'll be god damn some guy who doesnt want to cooperate endanger my fellow officer or the public. I was never smart enough for science and I couldn't become a doctor because I hate the sight of blood (which makes my job hard at times as you can imagine).

[StraightDope]

96. "If a suspect is passive resisting, what I am suppose to do, just let him sit there?"

Gee, I don't know, pick him up and carry him out? Y'know, kind of like how these prick pigs did after they had their fill of sadistic jollies? What's so goddamn hard about that?

[Supply Side Jesus]

97. mmmmm....

I can't vouch for their policies. As long as you have back up, then you can carry/drag a suspect where I work.

[StraightDope]

98. Supply Side Jesus, that's all I wanted to know.

Thank you, and sorry if I came off a little too antagonistic. What these sick fucks did to that kid was WORNG WRONG WRONG, and I'm gettin' mighty sick of some of the fucks on this board trying to justify it.

Having received a straight answer from you, you're not on my list any longer. :)

[Supply Side Jesus]

100. cool

I never wanted to justify what these guys did. I just wanted to give some prespective on what law enforcement dealt with. One thing is for certain, those guys are fucked!

[Felinity]

116. Here's an idea.

The student claims he went limp to protect himself from an escalation of aggression.

If the officers had stepped back, taken a breath, and asked everyone to calm down, they could have asked him if he would please leave, and he probably would have agreed to. Then, if he did not get up and leave the library (as he was in the process of doing when they assaulted him) they could take further action. These officers treated him as if he had been caught in a criminal act and posed a probable threat. What was the big hurry, was it the end of their shift?

Supply Side Jesus, I want to acknowledge that you are walking a very hard road. I do not believe that there are enough people in our culture who are motivated as you are to fill the majority of the ranks of our Police Depts. I wish there were more of you, but I know that few, even so motivated, are willing to exist within an establishment of "authoritarianism with guns" as a "white sheep;" when after a few brushes with the worst humanity has to offer, it is a slippery slope to succumbing to a very jaded and violent perspective.

Last night I viewed for the first time the video of an LAPD officer punching a suspect in the head while another officer held him down. I understand that the officials there condoned their behavior. Like I said, a very hard road you are on.

Here's a suggestion: The Austin Police Department is hiring, they were recently just crying for officers. We have a low crime rate, good schools, and housing prices that a public servant can afford. We'd love to have you. Please PM me if you would like to consider that.

Edited for clarification

[kdpeters]

52. So? This has been happening all along.

If you're suprised, outraged, shocked, or stunned, you're damn, damn, dman naive. Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims and gays know this to be nothing more than business as usual. Why so angry about it now? They let Rodney King's abusers off more than 12 years ago. Where have you been?

[Crim_n al]

72. Some of us were not around back then.

Do you really think the fact that terrible behaviour has been habitual for years
is any reason to ignore it?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

55. This is just going from bad to worse. Remember the state trooper who shot the family dog in TN?

Stopped the family, made them kneel at gunpoint at the side of the car, didn't close the car door so the dog got out, shot the dog in front of the family and then turned the gun back on those poor people when they reacted to that horrific act.

This, after they had been at tourist attractions in the state and all based on a single phone call by a motorist making sh** up about them.
(saying they'd robbed a bank, or something similar with zero evidence)

Abuse of power is just escalating everywhere. MKJ

[emald]

56. torture is acceptable. period. Prove me wrong.

here we have duly appointed and trained police using terror, TERROR folks, to bring a human being into submission. This was not about controlling the situation or protecting anyone. This was about TORTURE being acceptable. What a fucked up country we live in now. I guess the phrase "to protect and serve" don't appear anymore in the police guidance book. To bully and subdue, thats the game now and it comes down from the top, the president.
These "officers" should be in jail themselves for they are nothing more than sanctioned criminals themselves now. But no one except a few real patriots that remember the feel of real freedom care. Now days one needs to be afraid, be very afraid.

[Pithlet]

60. There had better be some criminal charges file against those cops.

There is no excuse. If that wasn't police brutality, then nothing is. I hope those assholes face both criminal and civil charges.

[dipsydoodle]

61. Large screen google video is here :

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3062309358819413815&q=tasered+student

[Exultant Democracy]

63. wow kick

[Divine Discontent]

64. JUST PICK THE YOUNG MAN UP THERE'S TWO OF EM!

there's no need for a taser - just pick the over-reacting (the first 10 seconds, I'd been screaming like him after they tazed me) kid up if he's being trouble... they need sued for millions, and every damn taser needs removed from cops if they're not going to use them right!

[mirandapriestly]

66. weren't there FIVE of them?

I think they get a sadistic thrill from things like tasers..

[Felinity]

73. I think the suits will start flying soon

The fact that this kid has not granted any interviews to the media tells me that we'll be viewing a press conference headed up by a civil rights attorney very soon.

The University Chancellor should be getting his checkbook ready.

[Casablanca]

84. That's what they ended up doing anyway.

It proves that all they wanted to do was to do a little "abu-Ghraib" on the darkie. Because they saw it on TV. :mad:

[Divine Discontent]

103. YEP!

I can see em laughing about it now, drinking too many beers, and masturbating about it. Son of a bitches only had to remove him, they were all about HUMILIATING him for being a darkie, and showing their LIBRARY AUTHORITY!



I SAY ----

If this is NOT handled harshly by the school and the law, then this will be a green card for all rentacops to tazer people and say, I did what I felt was necessary.


Reminds me of that video of the lady in Miami marching against the war, and the cops shooting her with those hard ass rubber bullets, then LAUGHING about it in their meeting the next morning! (youtube it!)



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[mirandapriestly]

65. Police threatened bystanders

"During the altercation between Tabatabainejad and the officers, bystanders can be heard in the video repeatedly asking the officers to stop and requesting their names and identification numbers. The video showed one officer responding to a student by threatening that the student would "get Tased too." At this point, the officer was still holding a Taser.

Such a threat of the use of force by a law enforcement officer in response to a request for a badge number is an "illegal assault," Eliasberg said. "

[Heywood J]

75. See, that's the thing.

I don't know why the kids didn't jump these guys - they can't taze everyone and this was clearly assault. If anyone would have done it, I would have figured the college kids would.

It's extremely unacceptable to assault a sworn officer of the law in the line of duty, or to attack one. It's quite another to rip a clearly-abusive security guard off a victim in danger and detain the guard until legitimate police can arrive.

[Casablanca]

86. So when the rent-a-cops are asked for _their_ ID, they don't get tazed.

What if the campus cops weren't legitimate cops, but frat boys playing a prank? Not that there's _that_ much difference.

[Divine Discontent]

104. these "men"

are f'ng jokes... I'm sorta pissed off at the crowd of young intellectuals... because there were so many of them, and I think they should have started screaming "PICK HIM UP! STOP TORTURING HIM!" or something like that, I heard one guy asking for their names, but they needed screamed at by the large crowd watching, and frankly, the thought of rushing them and taking the tasers away and holding them down and calling the police would've crossed my mind. Did they have guns or just the tazers, do you know?

[cjmastaw]

74. unbelievable

Simply unbelievable. How can they get away with that? Hope they end up in jail for that crap.

[mrbscott19]

76. maybe I'll go buy one of those things

Too bad there wasn't a student there with a taser or stun-gun in their back-pack and the willingness to use it.

[ismnotwasm]

78. Ugh

I've put off watching that, but I've been following the arguements in GD. It's bullshit, excessive use of force, and quite frankly very strange behavior from the police officers. If they didn't have the tasers, they would have handled it very differently, and that's what's so sad and sick

[ohtransplant]

79. *'s police state is becoming a reality.

People learn by example - and it starts at the top. If the message is that absolute compliance is the order of the day, that's how the troops act. It starts at the top.

I know cops personally and most would have better judgment. These guys are wrong and they should pay - with their jobs and their liberty. Abuse of power such as this should be severely dealt with.

Once and for all - we don't torture here!

[byronius]

80. This video really, really, pissed me off.

I could not have acquiesced, as a spectator. I would have been arrested.

[StraightDope]

82. How I wanted to reach through the screen and throttle the nearest pig...

But one can dream, one can dream. Normally, I'm not violent, but if there is ONE thing that I'll ALWAYS fight over, it's stopping bullies from victimizing someone, wheteher they have badges and guns or not.

[Divine Discontent]

105. At 6 minutes 33 seconds

don't you just wish you had a giant tazer to shove up that evil piece of shit's ass???

sorry, I am, but I just got the rest of the video, it goes on FARRRRRRRRRRRRR too long. What fucking losers these "men" are pushing around and torturing the one young man repeatedly when they could've simply escorted him out with force and called for police backup for him not showing his ID.

[Divine Discontent]

106. wow

the comments on youtube are horrendous-

"the little prick got what he deserved"

"I hate those smug self-righteous college students"

"next time he'll listen to what he's told"

etc. etc.

[Crim_n al]

108. Just like some DU members ... n/t

:evilfrown:

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

109. Bloody hell. I don't think I breathed for almost seven minutes.

Like I heard someone shout early on: "This is your abuse of power."

That was obscene.