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ITN Correspondent John Irvine and Cameraman Sean Swan in Misrata, Libya (GRAPHIC WARNING)

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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 09:38 PM
Original message
ITN Correspondent John Irvine and Cameraman Sean Swan in Misrata, Libya (GRAPHIC WARNING)
 
Run time: 05:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQcDbhJw5Hc
 
Posted on YouTube: April 12, 2011
By YouTube Member: ITNWashington
Views on YouTube: 301
 
Posted on DU: April 13, 2011
By DU Member: al bupp
Views on DU: 1431
 
This is a powerful & disturbing report. Warning: it contains graphic content of injured children.
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. At 1:18 you can see a M40 recoilless rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M40_recoilless_rifle
Type Recoilless rifle
Place of origin United States
Libya: Libyan People's Army (Anti-Gaddafi forces)<1>

I wonder where it came from?
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That's a good question, sir
I imagine such things are available on the arms market. How it got into Misrata is anybody's guess. Could it have been part of Gaddafi's arsenal captured by the rebels? I realize that as Soviet client state for much of his rule, this seems unlikely. However, as a weapon designed apparently for shooting at tanks, it makes a lot of sense to have in a desert environment such as Libya. You seem knowledgeable about such things, what think you?
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. It looks like the US isn't allowed to sell lethal weapons legally
Edited on Wed Apr-13-11 01:35 AM by jakeXT

After 37 Years, the U.S. Arrives to Do Business in Libya

The group includes the defense companies Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems and Raytheon International Inc., as well as major manufacturers like Motorola, Boeing and others producing satellites, medical equipment and pipelines. The return of the Lockerbie bomber may have enraged U.S. officials and millions of Americans, but, says Assistant U.S. Secretary of Commerce Nicole Lamb-Hale, this week's trip is aimed at moving on from that bitter history. "We're certain this marks a new chapter in our relationship and that it will help to strengthen economic and political ties," she said in Tripoli.

U.S. firms have good reason to rush to Libya. The oil-rich nation is sitting atop a giant cash surplus, with foreign reserves of nearly $140 billion. Muammar Gaddafi, who has ruled Libya for four decades and was once described by Ronald Reagan as "the mad dog of the Middle East," has said he intends to spend a lot of that money overhauling his country's creaking infrastructure, which was barely updated through more than two decades of international embargoes. (U.S. sanctions were lifted in 2004 following Libya's abandonment of its nuclear weapons program.)


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1967079,00.html



Libya army transport deal frozen after US approval

ASHINGTON – In the months before Libyans revolted and President Barack Obama told leader Moammar Gadhafi to go, the U.S. government was moving to do business with his regime on an increasing scale by quietly approving a $77 million dollar deal to deliver at least 50 refurbished armored troop carriers to the dictator's military.

The old M113 troop transports are typically outfitted with a single machine gun. U.S. officials said the now-scuttled deal would not have added new cannons or other guns because of strict rules that all defense sales to Libya had to be "non-lethal" defense products.

...

On the whole, U.S. defense shipments to Libya under the Obama and Bush administrations have been tightly screened in recent years. U.S. sales were dwarfed by a tide of arms sold by European allies. European Union nations approved sales of $470 million in weapons to Gadhafi's military in 2009 alone — a rush of Italian military aircraft, Maltese small arms and British munitions, according to a January EU arms control report.

By comparison, the U.S. peak was $46 million in approved defense sales in the final year of the Bush administration in 2008 — up from $5 million in Libyan defense sales the year before. The $46 million included $1 million in explosives and incendiary agents, and Toner said the State Department approved shipments of blasting cartridges used in oil exploration. Other U.S. officials cited concerns that such explosive agents could be converted to crude battlefield munitions.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/ap_on_bi_ge/us_arming_libya




That's judging from the AP article saying only non-lethal defense products can be sold.
Now we have this UN embargo and many say it's still illegal, even if they say the rebells are somehow a new entity not bound by it. Looks like it was illegal to arm the rebels before the conflict and it is still illegal now, even using Egypt or Saudi Arabia as a conduit. Egypt seems to posses the M40 so they could send them to Libya.



Arming Libya rebels not allowed by UN resolutions, legal experts warn US

The US is likely to be in breach of the UN security council's arms embargo on Libya if it sends weapons to the rebels, experts in international law have warned.

After Hillary Clinton said it would be legal to send arms to support the uprising, lawyers analysing the terms of the UN's 26 February arms embargo said it would require a change in the terms for it not to breach international law.

"The embargo appears to cover everybody in the conflict which means you can't supply arms to rebels," said Philippe Sands QC, professor of international law at University College London.

His view was backed by other experts in international law who said they could not see how the US could legally justify sending arms into Libya under the current resolutions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/30/arming-libya-rebels-america-warned


This video showed a lot of weapons even ammo..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DJapluertM



America's secret plan to arm Libya's rebels

Obama asks Saudis to airlift weapons into Benghazi

Desperate to avoid US military involvement in Libya in the event of a prolonged struggle between the Gaddafi regime and its opponents, the Americans have asked Saudi Arabia if it can supply weapons to the rebels in Benghazi. The Saudi Kingdom, already facing a "day of rage" from its 10 per cent Shia Muslim community on Friday, with a ban on all demonstrations, has so far failed to respond to Washington's highly classified request, although King Abdullah personally loathes the Libyan leader, who tried to assassinate him just over a year ago.

Washington's request is in line with other US military co-operation with the Saudis. The royal family in Jeddah, which was deeply involved in the Contra scandal during the Reagan administration, gave immediate support to American efforts to arm guerrillas fighting the Soviet army in Afghanistan in 1980 and later – to America's chagrin – also funded and armed the Taliban.
By Robert Fisk, Middle East Correspondent

...

The Saudis have been told that opponents of Gaddafi need anti-tank rockets and mortars as a first priority to hold off attacks by Gaddafi's armour, and ground-to-air missiles to shoot down his fighter-bombers.


Supplies could reach Benghazi within 48 hours but they would need to be delivered to air bases in Libya or to Benghazi airport. If the guerrillas can then go on to the offensive and assault Gaddafi's strongholds in western Libya, the political pressure on America and Nato – not least from Republican members of Congress – to establish a no-fly zone would be reduced.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/americas-secret-plan-to-arm-libyas-rebels-2234227.html




Egypt Said to Arm Libya Rebels

CAIRO—Egypt's military has begun shipping arms over the border to Libyan rebels with Washington's knowledge, U.S. and Libyan rebel officials said.

The shipments—mostly small arms such as assault rifles and ammunition—appear to be the first confirmed case of an outside government arming the rebel fighters. Those fighters have been losing ground for days in the face of a steady westward advance by forces loyal to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

The Egyptian shipments are the strongest indication to date that some Arab countries are heeding Western calls to take a lead in efforts to intervene on behalf of pro-democracy rebels in their fight against Mr. Gadhafi in Libya. Washington and other Western countries have long voiced frustration with Arab states' unwillingness to help resolve crises in their own region, even as they criticized Western powers for attempting to do so.

...

"Weapons are getting through," said Mr. Souflakis, who says he has regular contacts with Egyptian officials in Cairo and the rebel leadership in Libya. "Americans have given the green light to the Egyptians to help. The Americans don't want to be involved in a direct level, but the Egyptians wouldn't do it if they didn't get the green light."

..

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704360404576206992835270906.html
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. That's very impressive research, sir
I'd say, you have found evidence of Egyptian arms having gotten into rebel hands. My question then becomes, how did they do it. I suppose a smuggling operation via the port would be the obvious answer. If so, that's impressive given the conditions, and may indicate that there's been some winking at the embargo by blockading NATO forces.
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ports or border
I wonder how the departure of Mubarak has affected the relationship with Libya, or if Mubarak had accepted such an operation to arm the rebels.


Trade between the two countries grew 39% in 2007 to $267m. There are now plans to establish an Egyptian-Libyan border free trade zone that would include industrial, warehousing, trade and tourism projects.<39> In July 2008 Hosni Mubarak and Muammar Gaddafi met in Tripoli to discuss ways of promoting Egyptian-Libyan relations, especially in oil, gas and investment sector.<40> The Egyptian Minister of Investment met with Libyan counterparts to discuss ways in enhance trade and investment between the two countries.<41>



Movement of people

...

In March 2007, Libya said they were deporting 32,000 Egyptian workers who did not have papers showing they had been inoculated against avian flu, which would cost 70 dinars.<54> In June 2009, 6000 Egyptians were stuck on the border because Libyan authorities demanded 500 dinars before allowing them to return to Egypt.<55>

In July 2009, an outbreak of Bubonic plague was reported in the Libyan town of Tobruk. This caused Egyptian authorities to declare a state of emergency along the border, conducting health checks on everyone returning from Libya. The border town of Sallum was already under quarantine due to concerns about transmission of swine flue.<56>

Cross-border crime

The borders between Egypt and Libya are porous, and cross-border crimes are not unusual. According the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency, in 1993 Egyptian agents abducted a prominent Libyan dissident and U.S. resident in Cairo and turned him over to the Libyans, who executed him.<57> Libya is rich in ancient Greek and Roman ruins. Recently there has been a growing trade in looted coins, statues and other artifacts found by Libyans who sell them to Egyptian middlemen for eventual sale to rich American and European collectors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt%E2%80%93Libya_relations

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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Wiki
The equipment of the Libyan People's Army comes from abandoned Army depots, Libyan military defectors and the Egyptian Armed Forces.<9> It is not exactly known what equipment are currently in use but an analysis of pictures revealed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_People%27s_Army

Also, see

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/04/08/qaddafi_s_great_arms_bazaar?page=0,0
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jakeXT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Egypt sounds like the candidate No.1 nt
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. 1st, EXCELLENT EYE catching the M-40 in the 2 seconds it was in frame...
I was about to reply that it more than likely came from Egypt but kept reading...That has to be where they got it...Or Gaddafi got it off the black market & the rebels captured it.
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wordpix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-12-11 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. why is Misrata so important strategically? Oil shipments to the sea?
Those poor people and kids, especially. :cry:
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al bupp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-13-11 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. It is, ma'am, the 3rd largest city in Libya...
and the only major city in the western half of the country not under Gaddafi's control. It has a port, but is not a major oil terminal, as far as I know.
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