Arab Wafa Sultan Clashes over Islamic Teachings & Terrorist...

[bridgit]

Run time: 03:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOp_9xQ3gak   Posted on YouTube: April 17, 2015 By YouTube Member: YouTube Help Views on YouTube: 6917388   Posted on DU: November 24, 2006 By DU Member: bridgit Views on DU: 1335

 
'LA Psychologist Arab Wafa Sultan Clashes with Algerian Islamist Ahmad bin Muhammad over Islamic Teachings and Terrorism'

[PsychoDad]

1. Wafa Sultan has drank deeply of the kool aid....

She is the mouth piece of the American neo-con anti-Islamic agenda. She is loved by Islamophobes everywhere.

Peace.

Edited to add:

She upsets a number of liberal Muslams also. Notice, she doesn't speak against radicalists who have hijacked Islam, but against all Islam. Note this article from Alt.Muslim:

http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1674_0_25_0_C

Dr. Wafa Sultan: A Lost Opportunity
By Hesham Hassaballa, March 13, 2006

...
Although I hoped she meant that the "clash" we are witnessing is between civilization and religious extremism, in listening to other statements made by the good doctor, I realized that the "Middle Age mentality," the "backwardness," the "primitive," the "barbaric" to which she was referring was Islam itself. Her response to a question about who started the Crusades left me near speechless:

"The Crusader wars about which the professor is talking – these wars came after the Islamic religious teachings, and as a response to these teachings. This is the law of action and reaction. The Islamic religious teachings have incited to the rejection of the other, to the denial of the other, and to the killing of the other."

Are you kidding me? The Crusades were a response to Islamic teachings? Does not the good doctor remember that the Crusades started more than 400 years after Umar (R) first entered Jerusalem? And to what were the Crusaders - who slaughtered both Jews and Muslims until their blood was knee-high to the Crusaders' horses - exactly responding? What did the Muslims and Jews who were killed in Jerusalem in 1099 do to those European Knights?
...

Does the good doctor not realize that simply because some Muslims horribly twist the faith of Islam for evil ends, it does not follow that the whole faith of Islam is evil? Does the good doctor not realize that simply because some criminals murder in the name of Islam, it does not follow that Islam itself is criminal? Does the good doctor not realize that simply because barbarians have usurped Islam for their bloody barbarism, it does not follow that Islam itself is barbaric? Apparently not, and this makes me truly sad indeed.
...


Ms. Sultan, in what she is saying is much like saying that because of the wrongs done by some "Christians" or "Jews", that the teachings of both are wrong and the root cause of the evil.

Throwing the baby out with the bathwater as it were.

In all fairnrss, If I had walked in her shoes, I would probably also feel the same hurt and anger that she does.

peace

[bridgit]

2. peace...

[bridgit]

3. oh yes, i'm seen your edited links at altmlusim still, the looks on the various...

clerical faces she encounters suggest to me as well that they wish she would shut up, as might other muslim women that disagree with them; there's no shortage of debate in the muslim world as to which path to follow: peace, or war...the shortage is perceived by they, as is the case even in free societies, who control the words being spoken, or not spoken

peace...still :)

[PsychoDad]

4. I'm sure they would like her to Shut Up...

Much the same as we would like Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh to also.

While I may agree that many Muslim leaders get uncomfortable when the Sisters begin to speak, This isn't about a woman in Islam speaking out. There are plenty of sisters who do speak out for reform in Islam.

This is about the message.

Ms. Sultan's message is that there is nothing about Islam to reform. It is all evil to the core. Meanwhile she praises America, Christianity and Judism.

Heck, even the Crusaders did no wrong ....

She is the Ann Coulter/Rush Limbaugh of the Arabic world. She seeks only to stir up more hate toward Muslims, and she is aided in this by Memri and the western media.

Peace.
:)

[eallen]

5. Where does she praise Christianity and Judaism?

Every time I have heard her speak, she is outspokenly secular.

[PsychoDad]

7. Ms. Sultan's praise of Jews.

"The Jews have come from the tragedy (of the Holocaust), and forced the world to respect them, with their knowledge, not with their terror, with their work, not their crying and yelling. Humanity owes most of the discoveries and science of the 19th and 20th centuries to Jewish scientists. 15 million people, scattered throughout the world, united and won their rights through work and knowledge. We have not seen a single Jew blow himself up in a German restaurant. We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. "

http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1050

No mention of the wrongs done to Palestinians which continue to this day.

It's only Muslims who do wrong....


peace.

[eallen]

8. Interesting. And where does she praise Christians?

[PsychoDad]

9. She excuses the crusaders...

"The crusaders wars about which the professor is talking about- these wars came after the Islamic religious teachings, and as a response to these teachings. This is the law of action and reaction. "

In other words, they were just "good Christians" fighting against the aggression of evil Muslims.

No mention of the slaughter of both Jews and Muslims, not to mention many of their fellow christians.

How dare Wafa Sultan even try to defend the Christian Crusades. Either this is outright revisionism, or she is lacking in an understanding of history.

They were butchers…


THE CAPTURE OF JERUSALEM.

Resting at Antioch for the remainder of the summer and early fall, the Crusaders set out on the final leg of their journey in late November 1098. Now they avoided attacks on cities and fortified positions in order to conserve their forces. In May 1099 the Crusaders reached the northern borders of Palestine; on the evening of June 7 they camped within sight of Jerusalem's walls.

The city was at this point under Egyptian control; its defenders were numerous and well prepared for a siege. The Crusaders attacked briskly. With the aid of reinforcements from Genoa and newly constructed siege machines, they took Jerusalem by storm on July 15; they then massacred virtually every inhabitant. In the Crusaders' view, they purified the city by washing it in the blood of the defeated infidels. (http://www.holysmoke.org/sdhok/crus04.htm)

And that is just the tip of the Iceberg.

The Crusaders' committed horrible atrocities, raping, murdering and plundering Jews, Muslims and other Christians en route to Palestine. When they reached Jerusalem in 1099, blood flowed freely. Jews fled to a synagogue and Muslims to a mosque. Crusaders burned the synagogue, killing about 6,000 Jews, and stormed the mosque, butchering an estimated 30,000 Muslims. They left a legacy of fear and contempt in the Muslim world. (http://www.probe.org/content/view/114/162/)

Why doesn't Ms. Sultan judge Christianity and Judaism by the same criteria that she judges Islam? Shouldn't she find all three as worthless and vile?

peace.

[eallen]

13. The Islamic conquests also were brutal. I think it quite fair to point out....

That was a short quote, but I think it is quite fair to point out that the Christian crusades and the spread of Islam were <i>both</i> brutal wars of conquest, and that those who try to condemn one but not the other are not making much sense. The Crusaders did commit atrocities. I don't read that short quote as saying that Christians were "good," but as saying that in the dark centuries when these religions battled one another, the Crusades weren't distinctly different than that which preceded them. And they weren't.

[Jim Sagle]

17. OMIGOD, she praised the joooooooos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whuddrwe gonna doooooooooooooooooooooo????????????????????

[bridgit]

6. when Sultan cast herself as a 'secular human being' she has placed...

herself outside such rigors, and when she intones, "Brother, you can believe in stones as long as you don't throw them at me." she has imo reestablished the tenet of the separation of church & state...and while that may seem hard to believe, that is an american notion as well; one i for one wish we'd return to without any further delay

to cast such images, however & in my further opinion, is to cast them all the way back around and onto islam itself, and islam's certain & specific, if while so-called, right-wing neocon purveyors

peace ~

[PsychoDad]

11. you can believe in stones as long as you don't throw them

Indeed a philosophy to live by.

Ms. Sultan, like Rush Limbaugh, has every right to state what she will. I take no Issue with that. I take issue with her statement that all of Islam teaches (not simply the radical nationalists which is a fairly modern phenomena), and by extension all Muslims, are terrorists and evil.

She doesn't state that some use the teachings of Islam to promote evil, she stated that the teachings themselves promote that evil.

Make no mistake, this is what she is saying, "All of Islam promotes terrorism". You may agree with her, and paint Islam with that broad brush, and to any who do, nothing I or any other Muslim can say or do will ever change that mindset while the lies Ms. Sultan continue to state will simply reinforce that thinking.


BTW: That is a beautiful cat in your Avatar. Do yo belong to her?
Peace.

[bridgit]

15. HA! too true, that little cat runs this show round here...

it is not possible for anyone to state so flatly, not even Ms. Sultan, that all of islam promotes terrorism, no more so than anyone is able to state christianity as such, or hinduism, judaism, etc; her point is well taken though, that certain religions are simply not seen out there performing any ill-will,

her larger, umbrella theme may well have been that when held in the palm of a nefarious hand: scripture is too able to become misaligned with even itself,

are christians susceptible to this misalignment of scriptural meaning? in some cases clearly so. are muslims? yes, i believe that to be possible. are jews? i believe that to be possible as well.

it is perhaps the point that we are all humans, and some of us secularly so :)

peace ~

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. She has one part wrong

at the end where she says that the US government was not involved in the genocide of the Indians. Ask the Lakota people about who was responsible for Wounded Knee...and that's just the start.

Thank you, Psycho Dad, for your putting this woman in perspective. Another attempt to portray all of Islam like the terrorists.

[bridgit]

12. i'm not sure that was her point, what i took from that was that muslim's...

and that was clearly a snippet from within a contentious, larger debate; but my sense is that she was al well referring to a very real notion that muslims feel conversely...that only america can do wrong in this a world where muslims take each other out on a daily basis, while i do hear what you are saying

peace ~

[PsychoDad]

14. in this a world where muslims take each other out daily

Yeah, I wish more Muslims would say something about that also...

Doesn't mean that they don't. Just means it isn't reported, so we never hear about it. :(

Peace.

[PsychoDad]

16. It did sound as if...

She was trying to give America after 1776 a free ride.

As if it were only Chris Columbus and those pesky spanish who were responsible for the slaughter and attempted genocide of the folks who were found living here when they arrived.

Sorry, even after 1776 and our wonderful constitution wherein All men are created equal and endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights (and no truer words have ever been said), we still managed to get a lot of innocent blood on our hands.

Good to see you again Ayeshahaqqiqa. :hi:

peace.

[gtar100]

18. That was not a debate that refined any arguments

Ahmad kept using the horrific crap done by the US - the Indian genocide, the use of atomic bombs, Vietnam, etc., etc... - but they were pointless arguments in what Wafa was talking about. It was like they were both shooting over each other's heads and not connecting on point. Rarely in a debate or argument is there only one person all right and the other all wrong. A healthy debate usually sorts that out. I'm glad to see Al Jazeera airing these debates. Even if the two "guests" don't get it, maybe it will stir some debate among some of the more intellectual types.