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Mr. Gore: Impeachment Is About Citizens Becoming Involved in Democracy!

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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 12:49 PM
Original message
Mr. Gore: Impeachment Is About Citizens Becoming Involved in Democracy!
Edited on Fri Jun-01-07 01:04 PM by RestoreGore
http://www.impeachbush.tv/impeach/states.html

Alaska/ State Democratic party passes impeachment resolution NR7.

California/ San Francisco and Berkeley pass impeachment ballot measures in November 2006 election. Sebastopol passed 5/18/06. Impeachment forum held at Democratic Convention 4/29. Berkeley passes resolution 4/25/06. Fairfax 7/5/06. Koretz' AJR39 expired in 2006.

Colorado/ State Democratic party adds impeachment to platform on 5/20/06.

Connecticut/ Action in New London.

Hawaii/ Senator Les Ihara Jr. has introduced impeachment resolution SCR83.

Illinois/ Karen Yarbrough (D-Maywood) introduced HJR0125 in the state Assembly in 2006, Champaign/Urbana passed ballot initiative on Nov 7th

Indiana/ Lake Station rejects impeachment on April 13th.

Maine/ MaineImpeach.org is working on getting the state legislature to pass an impeachment resolution.

Massachusetts/ Amherst passes resolution.

Michigan/ National Lawyers Guild had a teach-in June 28th.

Minnesota/ ImpeachForPeach.org promoting Do It Yourself Impeachment

Missouri/ Jamilah Nasheed has introduced an impeachment resolution, HCR 46, on 3/29/07.

Montana/ Montanans for Impeachment leading the charge.

New Hampshire/ Hanover passes impeachment 111 to 42 on May 9th, 2006.

New Jersey/ North Jersey Impeach Group making good progress on state legislation.

New Mexico/ Senator Gerald Ortiz y Pino has introduced an impeachment resolution on 1/23/06. It passed Rules on 2/16.

New York/ Nyack votes unanimously for impeachment.

North Carolina/ Meeting planned for April 27th at Durham Main Library

Ohio/ Oberlin becomes first city in Ohio to pass resolution.

Oregon/ Lots of activity in the Portland Area. State dems pass resolution in 2005.

Pennsylvania/ State Senator Jim Ferlo launches impeachment petition campaign drive.

Rhode Island/ US Senate candidate Carl Sheeler calls for state impeachment.

Texas/ Representative Lon Burnam filed HCR 154 on 3/19/07

Washington/ Senator Oemig introducing a state resolution on 2/14/07. Olympia considering passing a city resolution.

Wisconsin/ 2005 Democratic Party Convention passed a resolution.

Vermont/ David Zuckerman and 19 others sponsored an impeach Bush resolution on 2/16/07.

Several cities and towns have also passed.


Firstly, THIS IS NOT A LEFT WING ISSUE but an American issue, so I wish those who are not for impeachment in the press, on blogs, and elsewhere would stop spreading that false meme. I have even talked to Republicans who want Bush and Cheney impeached for their crimes. This as well as the climate crisis IS A MORAL ISSUE. And it sure looks like the start of consensus to me. I am then honestly disappointed that Mr. Gore would write such a wonderful and prescient book as The Assault On Reason, and not come to the conclusion of doing what is morally right over what is politically expedient as I thought he was through with that.

He says we sit silent and people are not outraged because they watch too much television and that is correct to a great extent. Well, impeachment (WHETHER WE HAVE THE VOTES IN CONGRESS OR NOT) shows that we are not silent to their crimes and are taking this seriously enough to go forward with this because we love our country and because it is the right thing to do. What greater showing of the people becoming involved in their Democracy and working to take it back is there? And not out of some partisan political hatred, but for love of a country that we see being destroyed more every day that these parasites are allowed to continue in offices they have totally abused for their own purposes above the greater good.

So again, I am lost as to why as a free man now with the ability to speak truth, he backs away from the only logical step to take in regards to what he wrote in his book to keep these criminals from doing anymore damage to our country. Don't tell me with his current poll numbers and consensus out here that is growing that it is an impossibility because I simply don't believe it. It is clear that many Democrats in Congress are not going to do this because they think it will lose them the 08 election. So the crimes and abuses against our constitution and our children and those yet to be born along with the innocent blood being shed will go unpunished, which in my view will see us and our children losing so much more in not trying to regain our soul as a nation.

Sorry, but to me that is despicable and not at all like our Founders who I believe would never have suffered these traitors in the face of this danger. As Mr. Gore stated in Stanford at a speech he made a couple of years ago, "Right is right even if no one else is doing it, and wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it." But once again when faced with a challenge to do right, we will fail our charge. Political expedience once again trumps morality. And while I respect his right to have his own opinion, it is again very disappointing based on the words in his book. I'm really sad about this.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. I was surprised that Gore said there was no consensus for impeachment.
It appears to me that an awful lot of Americans want impeachment, and more are added to that list every day. So where's the confusion? :shrug:
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes, practically everyone I talk to in NJ wants it.
And I know NJ is not alone.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. out of that list -- how much bipartisan support for impeachment?
A partisan impeachment effort will produce three results, guaranteed:

First, it will energize and provide a rallying point for the repub base, which is divided and demoralized over the fact the war is a disaster, over their candidates' flip floppiness on issues like abortion, and over chimpy's pulling the rug out from under their ability to make immigration a purely partisan issue. Statements such the one's made by Feingold and Wellstone during the Clinton impeachment effort would become be repeated endlessly in the media and Democrats, instead of being on offense, would be playing defense.

Second, it will force dozens of Democratic representatives who six months ago weren't talking impeachment when they got elected in red-leaning districts, often by narrow margins, to deal with an issue for which support at home is mixed.

And third, even if enough blue dogs and moderate/conservative Democrats vote for articles of impeachment (and all it would take is 16 of them to defect to kill the articles), the repubs in the Senate will ensure that chimpy is acquitted, allowing them to claim vindication.

The Watergate model provides a good lesson -- you need to build the case independent of an impeachment effort. You need to get bipartisan support for the impeachment inquiry when it does start. And you need to get some bi-partisan support for the articles themselves.

We could get to that point, but the cold hard reality is that we're not there now.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
18. Then the question is: Are we even working on getting there?
Edited on Sat Jun-02-07 08:05 AM by RestoreGore
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree but the party has already made up its mind and we are getting put
down like we're conspiracy theorists now. Every argument Ive heard against impeachment has one of equal or greater value for it and at best there is nothing but hypos and guess work going on in what they say will happen if we start proceedings and investigations. Its their hypos against ours basically. So far what Ive gathered is that investigations wont change anyones mind even if their jobs depend on it for suppporting a proven liar and war criminal, that congress can focus on only ending the war (which we all know is not going to end any time soon at all) but not impeachment as well, that it will make us look bad (again not if you really believe they commited multiple high crimes and misdemeanors even if we lose the final impeachment vote in senate the rw will look like a bunch of mindlessly kow towing idiots, their loss our gain). I hav eyet to hear a good counter from them about what happens to dem prospects in 08 when we are still mired in Iraq and we havent done anything to hold those responsible accountable? The rest of the world sees this admin as criminals a growing segment of American society does as well it comes off as extremely suspicious when we accuse the admin of soooo many lies and crimes and then do little or nothing about it.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. yes, to me it makes them look complicit in the crimes
And it sets a bad precedent for future presidents who will then believe it is OK for them to do the same.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Municipalities, towns, cities and states
ALL must send recommendations for impeachment through their local gub'mints.
THAT IS ALL.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. Gore doesn't speak for everyone all the time. And sometimes he's wrong.
I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that.

I believe we need to stop looking for a leader and simply lead ourselves.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
7.  "I believe we need to stop looking for a leader and simply lead ourselves."
Exactly. That is what towns, municipalities, state legislatures, and citizens are now doing by calling for justice for the crimes committed against us and our country.
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il_lilac Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. so who is listening? nt
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. But what's it going to take to break this fucking dam?
There are people who can't wait any longer.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
16.  An attack here leading to Martial law or an escalation of the occupation in Iraq
Edited on Sat Jun-02-07 08:07 AM by RestoreGore
But if those things happened I am at the point where I still doubt people enmasse in this country would speak out. They would just continue to think it was all rosy. That is what really concerns me. People don't see where NOT doing this can lead us. Not good.
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il_lilac Donating Member (756 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I do believe that is what he says
He refers to "we the people" as the being the ones who must bring about change. We simply can not wait for a knight in shining armor to do it for us. I can see where he would not feel it was his place to call for impeachment, but I do hope he would acknowledge that if "we the people" demand it - it must be done!
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I think, in that context, he would agree, just as what he said about impeachment was contextual.-n/t
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Well, perhaps in a truly Jeffersonian Democracy he would call for it
But then, if we had that we might not need to in the first place which is the crux of it. Sometimes in the course of a representative democracy the people must do what they need to do to preserve it even though it is time consuming and not popular. For people to say there must be "consensus" is a vagus area, because it goes back to the core of Mr. Gore's book regarding people being uninformed due to the media caring more for entertainment than education. He also has a tv station that could help in bringing about that consensus. It is misleading to say there is not a consensus without noting the cause for that, mainly because many need to be made aware of the truth that would bring that consensus. But again, what is meant by consensus exactly when it is the moral thing to do according to our Constitution? That is one of the reasons the vote count in 2000 was stopped- because it was inconveniencing peoples' sensibilities. Democracy was tiring to the people who wanted to watch Survivor instead. Once Democracy becomes a burden to the people in exercising it then you know there is trouble ahead.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. yes, well, he is also one of " we the people"
And I think his calling for it regardless of any memes would bring about that consensus all the quicker. But yes, as I stated I respect that he has the right to his opinion, I just don't happen to agree with it in this case and I'm sure he would respect that too.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
13. More False Memes
1. "Oh no, we'd get Dick Cheney!" (Sen. Murray, Sen. Reid)

It's these flippant people that are in dire need of cranial-rectoscopy. It's as if they've been comatose for six years. What do they imagine we have right now? Is there something that the bushkid himself has fought valiantly against, that cheney could finally do? If anything cheney's more culpable than bush and there's nothing stopping a double impeachment, or doing cheney first to allow the GOP to move a caretaker in (Danforth, Warner) to finish the term.

2. "Darn, it's just too late." (Conyers)

The reality is that, unlike the Nixon and Clinton circumstances, there is NO disagreement as to the facts of the case. The regime freely admits its activities and merely "defends" them as lawful and unimpeachable. There is nothing to "inquire" about, no "smoking gun" to expose, and no witnesses to examine.

The Articles of Impeachment are alreadly written. All that remains is an up or down vote on torture, spying without a warrant, and/or terrorizing the American People into war. It need not even be taken up by a committee. The Senate trial need only last long enough for the monarchical "Urinary Authoritarian Executive Theory**" to be expounded as the regime's claimed free pass around the Constitution.

Then we find out if over 30 GOP Senators will stand before history to impose Authoritarianism over Americanism. I'm betting they can't. But even if they do, it's better we know where we stand -- and who's really on which side.

But it really can be done in a matter of days.

2A. Various and sundry rationalizations for inaction like: We must "instead do oversight" or "need to investigate first" or "must expose to the public in hearings."

These things are not technically memes, but they do travel from groupthinker to groupthinker with regularity. As noted above, the case-making is already done, but the case-makers are still running around like headless chickens.

When Sen. Kerry says something like it's better "to try to change their behavior" you might realize this as just a humorless version of "we'd get cheney." And of course if anyone actually says this to you in person you need only stare at them for 5 or 6 seconds before they say "Ok, ok ... I don't know what I'm thinking." But responding to media is nothing like a rational conversation.

This is what come when a culture of blather folds over on itself due to a large enough wave of non-deniable reality. The culture operates on the delusion that garnering information and transferring it to others (eventually the electorate/public) is actually acting or even leading. This notion that they can "teach" their way to a solution is just a more "cerebral" form of irresponsibility.


3. "mumble ... something icky ... Clinton impeachment ... mumble, mumble" (Sen. Harkin, entire parroting punditry)

Simply put, any comparison to Clinton is oxymoronic.

3A. "It would further divide the country." (Sen. Feinstein)

Which begs the question, "Further than what, exactly?" This one is usually (again oxymoronically) coupled with the lament of "how polarized" the nation has become. Well, if it's already polarized what are we avoiding?

The reality is that the nation is not any more "polarized" now than at other times. All that has happened is that a scary buzzword has been attached. That and the fact the polar-left has grown in the face of neofascism -- and more importantly gotten angrier and noisier -- thus interrupting the comfortable social life inside the beltway.

4. "It would distract from other priorities" (Sen. Feingold)

If there are priorities higher than stopping war crimes I'd like to hear about them. And even if so, I'd like to hear the magic potion that circumvents "Rule By Signing Statement." Without impeachment, no result can be obtained on any front without "dispensation" from the bushkid.

No pressure is actually being brought to bear at all -- let alome being "ratcheted up." The Dems continue to look like hapless pets and the bushkid allows (and takes credit for) anything they decide would help their side in the polls.

5. But everything is "All About Iraq." We've got to concentrate on "Stopping the War." (an entire movement)

Sadly, the "all about Iraq" meme did its job during the 2006 campaign. Its sole purpose was to distract from the reality that it was really "All About Anti-Bush" or as Curtis Gans put it:

Bender: Curtis, I'm holding the study in my hand right now, and clearly one of the things that all the exit polls showed was that Iraq played a part and your own work bears that out -- that Iraq helped propel some degree of an increase in turnout in this last election.

Gans: I think that it is not simply Iraq, although Iraq started Bush's downhill. But it is a gestalt around George Bush. it's being a pariah to other countries; it's people dying in what they increasing find is a vain fight; it's massive budgetary imbalances; it's a lack of compassionate conservatism; it's insecurity in jobs; it's the feeling that people have not been leveled with.

The mandate of 2006 was to impeach bushcheney. Polls showed that a majority wanted it before the election and that even more want it "just over" now. The public doesn't care what it does to who's chances in 2008. They even understand it might not lead to conviction/removal (they remember the Clinton farce too).


6. "We don't have the votes." (The Ziskey Doctrine)

Russell Ziskey: "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it."

This notion of only fighting if you know you can win is exactly what it seems: defeatism. The reality is that you don't know unless you try.

Are there 30 GOP Senators who will stand up for history to defend war crimes, illegally spying on Americans, and/or terrorizing the nation with a bomb threat of "Mushroom Clouds!"? If so, we really need to find out.

What we do know is that the Senate has already voted on this. They supported McCain's Anti-Torture Law by a vote of 90-9. Quite promising. Sadly, their vote was negated by "Rule by Signing Statement." Perhaps they'd choose not to repeat such a public display of impotence.

The American People simply want this never-elected, never-legitimate, war criminal regime confronted -- to have their objection voiced and noted for history. They want (and need) to be let off the hook -- publicly and officially -- for that which they never provided their consent.

This Congress and this once-great nation simply needs to get on with it.


============
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank you
Democracy is not a convenience sport.
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Cults4Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. This really really really needs to be it own thread.
Let me know if you make it so please:)

Thank you for that.

Id love to see you take into account all posssible blowback scenarios if we dont begin proceedsings, they dont seem to take into account how hobbled this party could be a year from now with a war still raging and no accountability to be had, nor what future government might have some problems stemming from the policy of not impeaching for the most heinous of crimes that there is. Would love to see you verbalize that up as well.


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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. YES! nt
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. ditto!
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. YES, YES, YES!!!--what you said my good senator.
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bbgrunt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-02-07 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
21. every time I think I might be able to
get behind some candidate, they do or say something to crush all hope. I was hoping Gore had left the DLC and had learned many lessons including ones about NAFTA and how to be a real populist.......rats.
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