When Abbie Hoffman and crew threw dollars down onto the floor...

[mitchum]

of the New York Stock Exchange and watched all of those stockbrokers scramble for the money, what commercial venture were they promoting with their prank?
That's right...none.
THAT was true guerrilla theater which highlighted a societal absurdity. They weren't promoting a brand of rolling papers, headbands, or amplifiers.
And that is the difference between a truly pointed prank and the actions of the "renegade" corporate errand boys.

[EstimatedProphet]

1. And?

[mitchum]

5. I don't understand your "response"

[EstimatedProphet]

23. I apologize. That was short. and rude

I have a question about the whole thing though:

Have either of these guys come out and stated that what they were trying to do was guerrilla theater? Only thing I have heard from them is about hair.

[mitchum]

31. I'm just a bit flummoxed by the number of people on this board...

who INSIST that was what the two were doing during the pranking and the subsequent press conference.
Look, I understand that so many people have been breastfed on marketing and contemporary subversive heroes are in short supply, but seriously...

Also, your apology is unnecessary. You were not rude.
peace,
mitchum

[goodhue]

40. Placement of brite lite displays was not a righteous prank IMHO

But the press conference surely was subversive, and for no discernible commercial motive.

They are members of the Glitch Crew collective, and that has nothing to do with Adult Swim.

[mitchum]

41. Man, they are the Fidel and Che for the barista class!

Yes, that WAS snarky

[goodhue]

42. no doubt

[EstimatedProphet]

49. Alright. Here's the way I see it:

And whether it is actual guerrilla theater isn't one of my concerns. Sorry, after writing all of this out I find I'm not really answering your point. I'll try to at the end.

I think that what these guys were doing was trying to come up with a snappy novelty ad, which frankly they did. And that's all they were doing.

It seems like people are trying to argue the hoax line from what I've seen, as if what they were trying to do was foist a bomb scare by guerrilla theater and thereby get much more attention for their ads. I don't buy that at all. I can't believe anyone would actually look at the things and think 'bomb!' They don't look anything like what would normally be taken as a bomb. To expect that would be to expect that someone would mistake city workers installing a fireplug to be planting a bomb. No one is going to jump to that conclusion, save the truly paranoid.

So, if they aren't going to be doing the whole thing to shock people and magnify the effect of their ad, then all they were doing was trying to place an unusual ad. That's it.

Now, I do think that it is possible, after they saw how the police and the media reacted, that they thought the whole thing was absurd, and that would explain their press conference. In the same case, a lot of us would be really angry (myself included), but the truly smart among us would do exactly what they did. As much as the press hated what they did, they made all the reporters look like fools.

I really doubt that any of this was planned to come out as it did. I just can't see how it could be. As far as what they did, it's a minor infraction. They did no real damage, and all the overreaction from the media and the police was their own fault. Apparently they had a media blackout for several hours yesterday - that was absolutely stupid of them; I immediately recognized the character for what it was, and I don't even watch the show! Had they just released a few pictures it would have come out much faster that this was indeed not a terrorist plot. Instead the Boston police acted paranoid.

If what they did was against a city code, fine. Bill them. Write them a ticket. It's no more severe than that.

Is this guerrilla theater? Not in the same vein as Hoffman, that's for sure. This was about an ad, you're right. Certainly I don't believe they planned it to really mess with authorities, because I don't think they would have even thought it would have caused the authorities to take any notice. I do however think that what they did at their press conference was about taking the power of the press to dictate the conversation away.

My more than 2 cents.

[Fierce]

2. Yup.

I find it odd that so many on this board are whooping and high-fiving over a marketing gimick.

[KittyWampus]

77. Indeed. Smells of hypocrisy. But I think the main thing is trying to look smarter

on a message board. Or something.

[mitchtv]

3. of that,

we could use a lot more.
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows...

[JeffR]

4. Quote in my sig line says everything I want to say about this

[goodhue]

6. Or were they promoting "Steal This Book"?

I think you miss the seriousness of 70s hair styles.

[mitchum]

17. Must have been a long range marketing plan...

since that came out a few years later

[goodhue]

24. no doubt

who knows what marketing plans these terrorists have for the future . . .

[ktlyon]

96. I think almost everyone is missing all the seriousness of the 70's

flower power = environmental movement
free love = womens rights to say yes and NO
anti-war movement = bring the troops home to their families
civil rights = gay rights = Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness

and hair

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Hmm.

And what do you suppose Abbie Hoffman would think of this latest brouhaha?

[mitchum]

14. If the Ouija board works...

I'll PM you

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. You're right. There's no way to tell.

For all we know, he would have sided with the police and city officials.

:eyes:

[immoderate]

83. Abbie? -- Neither.

He'd have something to say about all parties involved.

--IMM

[nealmhughes]

8. Is this modernistic poetry? "When Abby through dollars down ..."

A bit too T.S. Eliotesque for my taste, perhaps a unknown hommage to Ginsburg?

Dude, lose the Freeper spell:

I throw. You throw. He throws.
I threw. You threw. He threw.

Strong Germanic verb. Through is a preposition.

Sorry, but did you actually try to misspell that purposefully?

The spelling of such a simple word changing its meaning from a verb's past tense to a preposition is something that had to have been done on purpose.

So, go throw sum money on the stock exchange. I think pig blood or those skunk scent sacs that trappers use to disguise their scent on the floor would be better theater, myself.

[Fierce]

11. An unknown homage.

And I won't even go after your punctuation.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kdpeters]

85. These kinds of posts irritate me like sliding down a cheese 'greater'

When your typing and posting their all kinds of grammatical and typographical errors that won wouldn't notice if red aloud.

And that's how many of us think of these discussions here -- discussions, not essays. If you want to critique someone about the errors you find in their posts -- ask them first if would appreciate it. Most likely they don't even know who you are.

[givemebackmycountry]

9. STEAL THIS BOOK

Read this and you will understand.
GOD!

If only we had Abbie and his ilk around today.

Bill Orally and Sean Hannity's heads would explode live on TV!

Where are our American radicals?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Hey, didn't they make a movie on that?

One that was distributed by a big evil corporation?

[americanstranger]

And didn't Jerry Rubin become some Wall St. Bigshot?

And even Abbie cashed in after his years underground were over.

Even the purest of the ideologically pure are, umm, not so pure.

- as

[calzone]

76. I just re-read that again the other day

I have an old, faded copy, and read it thru again for the 3rd time. I agree completely, we need someone like Abbie here today, he was a genius when it came to protest. I remember a docu called "All u need is love" a 20 year Beatle revue about Sgt. Peppers, and various celebs were asked "Is all you need really love?" Some answered yes, but when asked, Abbie said "All you need is justice."
Damn right Abbie.
He once got arrested while forming a hand-holding circle of hundreds trying to exorcise the pentagon. He was trying to make the bldg levitate. Too bad he was arrested before he could complete the ritual.
Maybe alot of misery could've been avoided.
I'll also miss the strength and clarity of Hunter Thompson's voice.

[Wiley50]

10. When I Win Powerball, I'm Gonna Do It Again

and yell

" You're The Same Fuckin' Whores
Like When Abbie Hoffman did this"

Or has security gotten stiffer since 9 11

[mitchum]

20. Can't do it any longer...

the observation balcony was glassed in as a result of the stunt

[smalll]

13. Exactamente.

And if it was Tony the Tiger up on those litebrites doing some "guerrilla marketing" for an oil company rather than a "mooninite" hyping a movie based on an insta-cult "adult" cartoon, the pro-pranksters would see that.

For too many, leftism is nothing more nor less than a fashion statement. "Capitalists of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your yellow ties, you need nothing to gain but dreads and a snarky attitude!"

[americanstranger]

21. Tony The Tiger = Sugar Frosted Flakes.

Yeah, I'd be really offended by that.

- as

[scarletwoman]

60. I guess you probably need to be of a certain age to get the reference.

Back in the day, one of the big oil companies used to advertise their gas with the slogan, "Put a Tiger in Your Tank!", complete with a cartoon tiger.

(Sorry, being old, I can't just now recall which oil company that was...)

Anyway, I assumed that was what the poster was refering to, and the conflation of the gas station tiger (who had no name that I recall) with the Frosted Flakes tiger was likely inadvertant.

When you get old, you sometimes get things a little mixed up. ;-)

sw

[KittyWampus]

78. I am so fucking old I remember Sinclair Fuel (it was a dinosaur mascot)

[americanstranger]

81. Remember the color green they used?

Same color as BP green - Sinclair eventually morphed into PB.

Remember Atlantic? That was a big one in PA when I was a kid.

- as

[scarletwoman]

84. You DO know that your post just cries out for a punchline...

I'm so fucking old that I remember when Sinclair Fuel's fuel WAS a dinosaur!

(Ba dum pum)

:D

sw

[ktlyon]

97. yes sinclair had dino and I think Standard Oil was a tiger

no sure though

on edit
Esso

[americanstranger]

80. I remember the ESSO Tiger.

Before they became Exxon. I don't think their tiger actually had a name.

The gas stations used to give away stuffed tiger tails that you could string around your gas pipe, and when you closed the fuel tank door, it looked like there was a 'tiger in your tank.'

I'm old, too. :)

- as

[scarletwoman]

82. ESSO! Thank you! It was driving me nuts that I couldn't remember!

Here's another one: which oil company/gas station franchise had a red flying Pegasus as their logo? I even had a little plastic "charm" of that logo when I was a kid.

sw

p.s. -- I don't remember the tiger tail thing, but maybe it was a regional promotion? I grew up in St. Paul, Minnesota.

sw

[Manifestor_of_Light]

86. Mobil Oil had the red Pegasus, now part of Exxon

Also, Humble Oil became Exxon. Humble had subsidiaries called Esso.
The town of Humble, Texas, is named after the company.

They still have Sinclair stations in Denver I believe. My dad worked for Harry Sinclair as a pipefitter in a stinkin' refinery, for nearly 30 years and hated every minute of it.

Started in 1936 at SIXTY FOUR CENTS an hour. Unbelieveable.

When I was a kid we had an inflatable Sinclair green dinosaur.

[scarletwoman]

89. Wow! Thanks for the memories. I remember the blow-up Sinclair dinosaurs, don't remember if I ever

had one myself.

I thought Sinclair was bought out by Texaco some years back -- but I must confess, I didn't pay a lot of attention to the machinations of Big Oil until the Coup of 12/21/2000.

sw

[pamela]

87. I loved those!

The tiger tails, that is. I had one when I was a kid. It's funny to think of all the stuff that gas stations used to give away. Can you imagine going to a gas station today and having them fill your tank, check the oil, wash your windshield and then give you a gift? Lol.

[killbotfactory]

16. They were just hired to put up blinking lights of (previously) obscure cartoon characters

There was no malicious intent involved. Just an LED throwie, made from a few dollars of electronics, of a couple characters flipping the bird.

That an LED light of a cartoon character flipping the bird can cause such mass panic is insane.

[Fierce]

19. Who cares about intent?

I just think it odd that so many on this board think the action and resulting press conference were somehow "speaking truth to power" -- a ridiculous idea, in itself.

[mitchum]

22. Exactly

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Speaking of ridiculous ideas...

Does anybody really believe that Turner had anything to do with that press conference this morning?

[Fierce]

28. Of course not!

They were speaking truth to power!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. What they were doing...

is making the city and media look like a bunch of fools.

[Fierce]

32. Amazing how one can market that.

Makes me want to, I dunno, buy a made-in-China Lite Brite.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. That doesn't have anything to do with hair.

:shrug:

[Fierce]

38. Touche.

Truthiness hurts.

[americanstranger]

26. I find the whole thing pretty amusing.

I have no dog in the fight re the marketing campaign. I thought their '70s hair' press conference was a pretty clever way to avoid repeating 'no comment' 4 or 500 times.

I'm still pretty amazed that the City of Boston over-reacted to the degree they did. I'm surprised more people aren't pissed about that.

- as

[killbotfactory]

30. The police care about intent

Since they are trying to convict these two guys (but curiously, not the people who's idea it was and who paid them to do it) for promoting a bomb hoax of some kind. Their press conference was funny because it just underscored the absurdity of it all.

What kind of terrorist would make a bunch of bombs with LED lights of cartoon characters flipping the bird? Any inspection of the devices would have revealed them to be harmless. Sure, maybe some cartoonish supervillian, or insane obscure cartoon fan, might do something this crazy, but it's way down on the scale of possibilities.

[Fierce]

35. I think it's stupid to charge them as terrorists.

But I think it's equally stupid to hail them as heroes.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. And I think it's equally stupid...

the idea that these kids employment by an advertising agency which is in turn employed by Turner broadcasting somehow diminishes their actions.

[TheModernTerrorist]

98. I for one wouldn't say it was speaking anything

except how fucking paranoid this country is getting. Total communication breakdown. Orson Welles would be proud. Let's start rationalizing again, please. :)

[Ignacio Upton]

18. Or Orson Welles when he broadcast War of the Worlds

If someone like Welles tried to pull that off today, they'd be arrested.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Oh, sorry, that doesn't count.

Orson Welles was working for CBS.

[killbotfactory]

36. It really wasn't funny

Welles caused mass alarm with his fake newscasts of aliens invading from space.

Now, if he was talking about mooninites...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. No, it wasn't funny.

It was fucking hilarious.

[killbotfactory]

43. But, good ol' Orson was a corporate whore

Here he is, shucking wine and peas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3qg4i22x9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3B3C5hR1lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH1PJTY9AVA

All those movies he's made? Throw them out, he was employed by an advertising agency!

:sarcasm:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Citizen Kane was made by RKO, the evil corporate juggernaut.

You don't like Citizen Kane, do you? Tsk tsk. Abbie Hoffman would be so disappointed.

[mitchum]

46. Strawman...a big fat strawman

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. Hey.. why so upset?

It's your strawman.

[mitchum]

51. No. it's your pathetic refusal to see that they are just pitchmen...

errand boys sent by their corporate masters.
Welles was given total control in the making of "Citizen Kane" I doubt the errand boys were granted that type of autonomy.
And, of course, Welles never had that type of control again.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. These kids had total control over that press conference.

Your whole argument is that since they worked for a corporation, it invalidates their message.

What corporation do you work for, mitch?

[mitchum]

55. I work for no corporation...

I teach intellectually disabled children.
And no, that's not some snarky way of saying that I'm trying to get a point across to you guys. I'm a prick, but not that much of a prick :)

That really is what I do.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. Oh, so you work for the government.

:rofl:

[mitchum]

58. And you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. I also worked as a teacher.

But I didn't make a big to-do about it.

[mitchum]

63. You asked me...

and I was kind enough to reply.
I'm waiting.

[mitchum]

65. I'm still waiting

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. For what?

A clue?

[mitchum]

67. Your reply about your current employment

You asked me what corporation I worked for and I graciously honored your request (my "big to-do about it" notwithstanding)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. I told you.

I used to be a teacher.

Now I'm retired.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

73. Oh, that's because I'm experiencing my second childhood.

What's your excuse?

[mitchum]

74. Or maybe it's because the time is drawing so near that you can almost

see the color of the Reaper's eyes and therefore you desperately want to get down with the kids. It won't keep him away.

I told you...I'm just a prick

[JVS]

94. The fucking feds!

[Az]

53. Principia Discordia is published by a Corporation

Not all Corporations are the same. Some are still governed by ideas derived from human foibles.

Subsidiary companies have a lot of leeway in how they do things in various Corporate systems. They can be guided by nearly anything including counter culture messaging. The people that publish Ad Busters are a corporation. But they are avidly counter culture. They practically invented culture jamming.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. I was just thinking about this.

If something is on television, does that mean it's not counter-culture?

[JVS]

95. Yes. I invoke the medieval work ethich, whereby economic activity is inherently bad

The Good simply have or are given to through tribute. Travail is for the base.

[Az]

47. Um they announced it was a fake at the top and at each break

It was people who were not really listening that got it screwed up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. Hey, that's right.

He even interrupted his performace for corporate breaks, completely destroying the illusion.

What a corporate whore.

:rofl:

[Chulanowa]

91. Wells issued a disclaimer before the program begain

Problem was, people "channel surfed" into CBS after listening to a popular NBC program, and wound up catching the War of the Worlds piece from the middle - missing the title announcement, author credits, and such.

Entertainers should not be punished for the idiocies of those htey try to entertain.

[TheModernTerrorist]

99. exactly

Not to mention within the first couple hours, once Turner, a huge fucking corporation, caught wind of what was going on, they fessed up to all the LED "Light Brites", but the city wouldn't have any of it and said they were "looking into other possible leads", not once stopping to consider the fact that these things A) have no explosives in them (doesn't the city have at LEAST one bomb-sniffing dog or robot???) and B) these "ads" have been all over for at LEAST 2 or 3 weeks without causing any alarm. If we're seriously going forward and trying to charge two guys with terrorism then I think this country has lost it's fucking mind, and it's ability to be rational.

[JVS]

69. Don't forget that a good deal of art from the last milleneum is invalid...

because it was commisioned by THE BIG OLD CORPORATE CHURCH

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. LOL

[KittyWampus]

79. But at least the last millenium saw corporations PAYING for their fucking ad space

and not foisting their garbage onto vital public infrastructure and trying to get over like their some 'counter-culture' guerilla activists.

[undergroundpanther]

44. Abbie Hoffman is one of my heroes.

May the shame of the system be seen.

Do you think the Pentagon needs another levitation?

I think we got enough members on DU to do it. :evilgrin:

[byronius]

90. I met the man, shook his hand, looked into his eyes.

I got a little bit of the hero-worship from it, admittedly --

He was a Good Guy.

[scarletwoman]

50. Man, I can't believe I'm only the 2nd person to recommend your post!

You're absolutely right on.

sw
( :hippie: )

[mitchum]

57. Well, it is the era of diminished expectations and people seem to...

feel thy have to take "heroes" as they find them

[scarletwoman]

75. People ain't never going to truly free themselves until they stop looking for "saviors".

Like, grow the fuck up already and look at reality.

I totally understand, however, we'd all love a deus ex machina to show up and put everything to right. Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

sw

[KittyWampus]

92. well, I was glad to contribute as well. IMO, the focus on this whole stupid thing

has been totally misplaced.

[Rex]

61. The difference? One group does cocaine and the other smokes dope.

nt

[mitchum]

64. You may have a point there

[americanstranger]

71. Not for nothin, but

I have a feeling that Abbie did his share of Bolivian Marching Powder. Call it a hunch.

- as

[mdmc]

88. the real deal of yore and present day corporate teens

[sniffa]

93. oh fucking yawn