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Angriest I've been reading news: Private Loans Deepen a Crisis in Student Debt

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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 08:49 AM
Original message
Angriest I've been reading news: Private Loans Deepen a Crisis in Student Debt
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 08:53 AM by 1932
Unlike federal loans, whose interest rates are capped by law — now at 6.8 percent — these loans carry variable rates that can reach 20 percent, like credit cards. ...while federal loans come with safeguards against students’ overextending themselves, private loans have no such limits. Students are piling up debts as high as $100,000....While federal loans also allow borrowers myriad chances to reduce or defer payments for hardship, private loans typically do not. And many private loan agreements make it impossible for students to reduce the principal by paying extra each month unless they are paying off the entire loan.

{None of this was inadvertant. This was part of a plan to make profits for the financial industry and the government helped them do it.}
...

“It’s a huge problem,” said Barmak Nassirian, associate executive director of the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers. “When a student signs the paper for these loans, they are basically signing an indenture,” Mr. Nassirian said. “We’re indebting these kids for life.”

{Lessons learned from the way the IMF and Wall Street and the rest of the financial sector has treated developing countries over the last 40 years, I'm sure.}
...

For the last 15 years, the limits on the most common federal loans have stagnated at $17,125 for four years. They will increase slightly starting next month. In addition, loan companies have also come to realize that such loans can be hugely profitable.

{I wonder who lobbied the government to keep that number low, allowing for a gap that could only be filled by private loans?}
...

Janea Morgan, 25, a 2006 graduate of California College San Diego, said that college officials had her fill out the federal financial aid form but never tapped federal loans. Instead, she said, they steered her to a private loan with KeyBank, at an interest rate that could rise four times a year, with no cap. Now, she is carrying $46,000 in private loans at 9.22 percent interest, which she fears may rise beyond her ability to pay. Ms. Morgan said that when she asked college officials why they bypassed federal loans, “They said it would take too long.” Barbara Thomas, vice president and chief operating officer at California College San Diego, said that she could not discuss Ms. Morgan’s situation because of privacy laws, but that generally students sometimes took too long to fill out the federal financial aid application properly. “It’s a time thing that kids have to work with,” Ms. Thomas said.

{That is an absurd explanation. I wonder how much money lenders paid to get her college to steer applicants away from federal loans.}
...

Sometimes marketing is at work. Last September, the United States Student Association complained to the Federal Trade Commission that a major private lending program, Loan to Learn, made “false and deceptive claims” in a brochure called “Demystifying Financial Aid.” According to the complaint, the brochure stated inaccurately that “most government loans are need-based,” suggested that federal loans could not be used for education-related costs like computers and books, and that there were “strict deadlines” on applying for federal loans. In fact, students can get federal loans to pay for educational expenses, even retroactively.

{So what is the consequence for lying and stealing thousands of dollars from these students?}

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/us/10loans.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=education&pagewanted=print
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
1. I've seen lots of CitiCorp "student" loans advertised on TV this week.
It is nothing more than another high-interest revolving credit scam. One commercial even says "a co-signer may reduce your interest rate." That, in itself, should be a big, bright-red bullshit flag. Verb sap!

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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. no shit
since i have nothing to do but watch a lot of tv and post here, i`ve noticed these commercials on hell of a lot of dish channels within the last few weeks.."get your parents to co-sign and borrow up to 40,000 dollars"!

i remember in the early 70`s when the bank of america was flush with saudi oil money was mailing out 500 dollar credit cards to just about anyone who signed up....no one noticed the interest rate and the penalty fees was actually worse than todays. that was the first great "credit" scam on a national level.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The last hurrah before Andrew Cuomo's activism derails the gravy train?
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 09:25 AM by 1932
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have seen TONS of ads for Astriva and Chase in my area
ALL of them using the premise *it's NO big deal to apply for up to 40K PER YEAR for school! It's going to make your life EASIER, you can buy ALL the toys you need -- oh yeah, but you have to have your PARENTS co-sign - but THAT'S not a big deal"

ALL of these ad campaigns are played during adult swim on the cartoon network, Comedy Central - any possible programming for teens and young adults. Playing UP that instant gratification thing (get YOUR money in a WEEK!!!).

Astriva has set up hyperlinks to numbered websites, probably to figure out which timeframe and show brings in the most *fish*.

I'm using these ads to teach my kid about predatory lending. And the ads are just popping up everywhere. :grr:
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. As the article says, these students are trusting their college loan officers to direct
Edited on Sun Jun-10-07 09:16 AM by 1932
them toward loan products that aren't going to ruin their lives (and the colleges are violating their duty to protect and educate by giving them these products).

However, your post reminds me of an ad I got in the mail for a credit card: "Take a vacation. You've earned it."

Uh, if I EARNED it, I wouldn't have to put it on a credit card!!!!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. npr did a program about the college`s and the feds complicity
in this problem of loans. the federal official blamed the colleges and the colleges blamed the feds..meanwhile everyone else gets screwed..
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. all owned by Viacom....
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm sure it was financial industry lobbyists convincing compliant government
to pass the laws that allowed them to extract so much wealth out of college graduates.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. I've seen many ads lately for this and here was one of their "sell" lines:
"Better than paying for college with a high interest-rate credit card!"

Wow no shit!?! LOL

When the bar is set at going to college on high interest-rate credit cards, it's not hard to top.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. One of Bill Clinton's very first acts was to institute Government loans with very low rates
for college. Republicans hated that because their banker friends lost a bunch of money. College admission rates soared under Clinton. One of Bush*'s first acts was to reverse that policy and put college loans back into the private sector. We have seen the results of that..
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
11. It should be the college's job to direct students to Federal loans first
When I applied to college 10 years ago, all of the colleges that I applied to, gave me the deadline for admission and the deadline for filling out financial aid forms. They promised to send the award letter before the deadline for making a deposit. All three of these colleges did that. If they had not, they would have been off my list. Luckily, one of the colleges gave me an excellent aid package. If I would have only been accepted by the one that gave me the worst package though, I still would have gotten the full federal loan amount and only had to borrow $8,000 privately per year instead of over $20,000 per year.
Potential college students need to be better educated about college admissions and financial aid. It should be done by high school guidance counselors, but from what I understand, they are overworked.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
12. Good god. I'm so glad my kid is in a union electrician's apprenticeship--
he gets to work, and school is at a community college and costs us about $1200 per YEAR. And, when he graduates, he actually will have a highly-paid job! Forget college, everybody! Most degrees, sadly, aren't worth much anymore anyway.
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Athens30603 Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. That's not a good way to look at it....
I went back to school after dropping out 13 years ago simply to LEARN things. Not to get a job. Part of the problem in higher education is that people treat it like it's trade school and only value learning insofar as it will get them a job. Learning and higher education is an end in itself.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 05:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Athens, you are certainly right if you look at college simply as a way
to learn things as an end in itself. Thirty years ago, I put myself through college for exactly that reason--to learn things I was interested in, to broaden my understanding of the world, etc. But I put myself thru a state university (FSU) on my earnings as a drugstore clerk. This is impossible to do today.

A student who takes out $50-$100,000 in school loans MUST look at the "earnability" of whatever degree he is seeking--the cost is so high that there is no other rational approach. And don't get me started on how college classes have been watered down to almost nothing these days. I know I sound like an old fart, but I see plenty of college essays at work, and they would not have held up in my high school 35 yrs ago. College-level courses are now HS, and that's being kind.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. There is no doubt that increasing your knowledge increases your earning potential
If you have no capital, and only your labor to sell, increasing your knowledge increases the value of your labor.

The problem here is that the financial sector has implemented a system which extracts almost all that increase in value.

If you don't go to college, you can avoid the debt, but your lack of knowledge will lower your earning potential in the vast majority of circumstances.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. It only gets worse when you see how the aid is calculated
for example, I am 25 and pay for my own school. Am independant on taxes, have a home mortgage, etc...

Whatever money I make is counted toward my estimated contribution. That is, if I make $20k in a year after taxes, they estimate that I can pay $20k out of pocket for my college, as though there were no other expenses. So the more you work, the less money you can recieve. However, even if you have no tax obligation and no estimated contribution, you don't get jack to live on and barely get enough to pay for 12 hours per semester (which is not enough to graduate in four years).

Its bullshit, and rigged so you will be in debt forever.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. You're so right
And the system also seems to be rigged against independent or nontraditional students, as your example shows. I remember back in the early 90s, a friend of mine who was about 30 at the time trying to convince the financial aid office that despite the fact that she'd lived with her parents for the prior two years (after her mother had a stroke), her parents income (mainly pensions and SS at that point) should not be included in financial aid estimates because they weren't contributing anything to her college.

The model the government uses to calculate financial aid is outdated and assumes that college students have mommies and daddies behind them contributing to their college funds. Why should parental income be included if the parents aren't helping out?
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Two things to say about that:
1 - You have to do something to keep people from going into debt that they'll never be able to repay.

2 - (at the other end of the spectrum) obviously, the government was trying to leave a big gap that could only be filled by private loans.
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Nikia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Because it can be hard to prove that they aren't helping out
Some colleges who offer scholarships to low income students depend on a certain of their students paying full tuition in order to fund those scholarships.
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oregonjen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
14. Our local newspaper, The Oregonian has had a few articles this week
on the tuition for state colleges and the loans students are getting. In today's paper, this is the latest story. Record debts for students.

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1181350517255380.xml&coll=7
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. From that article:
More than half of 1,280 graduates in a 2002 national survey sponsored by Nellie Mae Corp., a student loan provider, said loans weighed down their lives, forcing them to change career plans or to delay milestones such as moving out of their parents' homes, getting married or having children.
...
Today, 88 percent of students work, according to an Oregon University System survey of the class of 2005. Of those surveyed, 14 percent worked full time, 58 percent part time and 16 percent only during breaks. Many students work 30 hours or more a week, leaving less time for classes and study and prolonging their time in school.

----

How are we going to have a healthy middle class (and, therefor, a healthy democracy) if this is what is happening to our country?
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oregonjen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Links to the previous articles from last week
Dollars often decide grads' college choice
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/1181186717282800.xml&coll=7

State universities set to raise tuition
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/exclude/11812803528240.xml&coll=7

Rising tuition worries school leaders
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregonian/stories/index.ssf?/base/news/1181361319226200.xml&coll=7

My husband and I are in sticker shock regarding this. We have two children and high tuition is THE main reason we stopped at two children. We wanted to be able to send them both to college without putting them and us in too much debt and have retirement funds for us. Some of my neighbors have 4 or more children and I can't even begin to fathom how they will all get degrees.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
18. If we keep letting our people get college educations...
...who will be the foremen for the immigrants who do our landscaping and roofing? Who will manage our restaurants? Where will we find prison guards?

We need to think long and hard about helping our "promising" young people get a college education. It isn't even necessary now that we can hire degreed people from India for the important service jobs...software, accounting, radiology, tech support. Why should the American taxpayer be forced to subsidize student loans for people who probably won't be able to get good jobs anyway?

I think the GOP model is a lot cheaper for taxpayers, an America not unlike Mexico or Bangladesh. We baby boomers can just coast into retirement on the last financial nutrients from the dying economic tree of socialist education policies. Then we can hire these would-be college grads to do our yard work and wheel us around in our wheelchairs. Please, let's just leave the colleges to the foreign exchange students. We need cheap, desperate workers who speak decent English here in the U.S.A., not a bunch of smart-ass college pukes.

Now where's my coffee and oaties, pool boy?
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Athens30603 Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-10-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. OK, I KNOW that had to be a joke.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
23. What they want is kids to sign up for the Military
so their education will be free but you become a servant to Bush

or a indentured servant to corporations

and yet we need college educated people

and yet their wages are going down

it is a No Win No Win situation

America and its youth are going to rebel and the anger is going to be huge
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-11-07 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
24. TV commercials
for these companies are all over the place.
They are using come-ons like low attendance requirements and quick delivery of the money. They are targeting people who can somehow install someone as a student so they can use the money.
They are so obviously scams that the tv stations should share some liability for them. They are collecting advertising dollars and taking no responsibility for what they are airing.

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