Should they at least pay the immigrant workers minimum wage?

[Philosoraptor]

Some are legal, some are not, but can't America afford to at least pay these people the paltry minimum wage that they insult us with? Isn't it just cruel to pay someone who is hard up and down on their luck BELOW the minimum wage?

Not to mention insurance, worker's comp. etc. Am I just too nice? Too idealistic?

I know I don't know all the ins and outs of this complicated issue, and I have no direct knowledge of these matters, and maybe I'm way off base or just incorrect, I'm just asking.

[LeftishBrit]

1. As an outsider...

this is something I've been wondering. Why not go after employers who deny ANY of their employees mimimum wage, insurance, etc.? If it worked, it would prevent exploitation; in itself stop the 'cheap labour' problem, and would also reduce the incentive to hire illegal immigrants. Or do the laws not deal adequately with such things?

[Philosoraptor]

4. That would make way too much sense.

I can only assume there's a larger profit in having it the way it is.

I see it as exploitation of the desperate.

[TahitiNut]

14. For a number of reasons.

First of all, the laws are NOT enforced. The de facto immigration laws are laissez faire - permitting companies to almost completely ignore laws that are themselves carefully designed to be nearly unenforceable.

We play a game of delusion and denial in this country. We pretend that passing yet another law is the way to solve all our problems. (If the only tool you have is a hammer ...) When we make the sausage that's a law, we arrive at a point where NOBODY wants to fund its enforcement. That's the result of "compromise" - laws with which nobody is happy, and that lack of satisfaction gets represented when it comes to paying the piper. We just don't do it. That creates a void - a vacuum into which the moneyed interests flock. Corporations regard laws as a "cost of doing business" and do a risk assessment - a risk assessment takes the cost of being found guilty of a violation and multiplies it by the probability of being found guilty. We then compare that to the economic advantage of many instances of violation ... and come up with a risk/reward ratio. Right now, the profits from exploitation of cheap labor far outweigh the costs of doing so, including the overall costs of fines and penalties after due process (including interminable appeals, if necessary).

Let's remember that "enforcement" includes the willingness of individuals to both comply with a law and their willingness to report violations and offer evidence. When we disrespect our own laws, we fuck ourselves!!

It's a form of mass insanity ... a political neurosis, if you will.

[fasttense]

2. When I worked alongside illegal immigrant workers, we were making

about 50 cents over minimum wage. I was picking flowers in Florida. If one of them got injured or sick, it was so long charlie. Even when the injury was caused by the work, they had to suffer in silence or lose a day of pay.

[madrchsod]

3. yes

they should pay taxes and social security also.if a company is so desperate to hire people for jobs that "americans" won`t do then they should do the work to have their employees become citizens. shit now i`m becoming idealist about this issue...

[WinkyDink]

5. What about the word "illegal" is difficult? And no, they ought not get the MW automatically.

Ask any CITIZEN who doesn't get it (like a waitress).

[Marrah_G]

6. If they aren't working here legally....

How would could you expect those companies to abide by labor laws? These companies hire them because they will shut up and not cause any trouble by expecting fair and safe working environments. Even if we legalized every one of them today, unless there is a serious effort to go after the employers those employers will replace the newly legal with the new illegals coming over the border.

It's not about America needing workers for jobs americans won't do. It is ALL about the money. Illegals aren't in the position to demand anything from corporations.

[LeftishBrit]

8. Yes, that's what it sounds like...

But isn't there a way of enforcing labour laws more strictly? It sounds as though some companies are getting away with murder. Also, it sounds as though employers are only hiring so many illegal immigrants because they can exploit them; so if they felt they couldn't get away with it (i.e. frequent inspections and checks to make sure that companies are following labour laws), they would not have such a motivation to hire them. And they would have to treat EVERYONE more fairly. But I admit that I don't have a full knowledge of the American system; are labour laws very lax in general?

[Marrah_G]

9. Enforcement of existing laws is very lax by this administration

They need to set VERY high fines, add a system to verify workers status and multiply the office that over sees employers by about 100.

Stop the employers first, Close the border second, legalize the ones here with citizen children or spouses third, send the rest home without penalty and allow them to come back in a legal way if they choose to.


That is my two cents

[Critters2]

10. This is what I've been saying,

If labor wage and safety laws were enforced, there'd be no advantage to hiring illegal workers. The incentive would go away, the jobs would dry up, there'd be no reason to swim the Rio...presto change-o! Problem solved!!

Next, I'll turn my attention to world peace.

[kath]

13. Exactly it's an ILLEGAL EMPLOYMENT problem that we have, not so much an illegal immigration

problem. Let's call it what it is, and punish the corporate lawbreakers (and others who violate labor laws)

[madokie]

7. I think the ones who hire undocumented workers no matter where they're from

should be paying huge lawyer fees,IHMO

[TahitiNut]

11. Figure out how to ENFORCE any relevant laws and the problem is more than half-solved.

I think it's time we on DU get it through our collective heads that it's NOT about how the laws are written, it's about how the laws are enforced! As the chasm between the "intent" of our laws and the manner in which they're enforced gets wider and wider, we progressively lose democratic control over our own governance and surrender to a regime where we're ruled by autocrats rather than a purported "rule of law."

I'm losing my patience with the addle-brained crap about some alternative reality on some planet as yet unlocated. There's absolutely NO SENSE in yet another BLIVET of legislation when there's no evidence that the claims regarding the impact of that legislation will ever come to fruition when ENFORCEMENT is the fundamental issue. We played this game 21 years ago. It's time to stop playing the game.

[EFerrari]

12. That would be too much like social justice. n/t