OMG!!! This is SOOOOOOOO Good! "CNN: "Stomaching" Michael Moore"

[in_cog_ni_to]

"Repent, CNN. Judgment is nigh. Good night. Good luck."
Frank Dwyer| BIO
RSS

CNN: "Stomaching" Michael Moore

Posted July 10, 2007 | 07:58 PM (EST)


An empty-headed newsreader on CNN just invited me to watch the second part of Wolf Blitzer's interview with Michael Moore, "if," she added, "you can stomach it." She was doing her bit, I suppose, to defend Wolf and handsome Sanjay against Moore's attack yesterday, in which he vigorously demanded an apology from Blitzer for having trashed Fahrenheit 9/11 three years ago. CNN was wrong on every count, Moore raged, and so helped lead us into this terrible nightmare. Moore demanded that Blitzer and CNN apologize for having failed so dismally to do the crucially important job of a free press in a democracy: to find the truth, to disseminate it, to speak it unflinchingly to power.


The comely newsreader and opinion-purveyor (her primary qualification apparently her cheek bones) also referred with haughty disdain to Moore's "ranting and raving." She would have used just that tone, I think, if the story crawling in front of her had been about the rude way Jesus behaved with the money-changers in the temple, and I can only imagine her horror at having to report on Samson and the Philistines. She reminded me of a similarly vacuous partisan, a character in Jean-Claude van Itallie 60s play, America Hurrah, a cheerleader who chanted "Burn yourselves, not your draft cards, Burn yourselves, not your draft cards!" It's another war, another time, but the same battle lines have been drawn again. Whose side are you on? And if you're not for us, you're against us.

The newsreader and her employers should know that a large and growing part of the American public has no trouble stomaching Michael Moore, who is doing the journalists' abandoned work of speaking truth to power. What we can no longer stomach is the neocon fellow-travelers, people who attack Moore so sneeringly, the very people who from their positions of influence have done and continue to do this country such incalculable damage. Why would CNN position itself in opposition to Moore? What are they thinking, the pundits and poobahs? Whose side are they on?

Stomach Michael Moore? But Moore was right! CNN, like the rest of our craven, dishonored media, was comfortably embedded in the worst administration in history, CNN did trash Fahrenheit 9/11, CNN did help lead us into this nightmare, CNN did fail us, and CNN does owe Michael Moore -- and all of us -- a profound apology. All Main Stream Media are guilty of this abominable dereliction of duty. I used to think CNN was better than most, in the days before the execs decided to go whoring after Fox numbers. (How can CNN provide Glenn Beck a regular platform to dispense his bigotry and ignorance with cheerful self-deprecating bully-boy smarm?)<snip>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-dwyer/cnn-stomaching-michael_b_55666.html

[CatWoman]

1. let's keep this baby kicked up

:kick:

[EVDebs]

71. Wolf owes his career to Pat Robertson...

A Little Story About Pat Robertson, Wolf Blitzer, and David Corn
Does Wolf Blitzer Owe His Career to Pat Robertson?
October 21, 2005

By Katherine Yurica

http://www.yuricareport.com/Media/OnPatRobertsonWolfeBlitzerAndDavidCorn.html

"But it’s sort of strange to realize that Pat and Wolf Blitzer go way back together. Yep! Wolf used to work for Pat Robertson's CBN way back when Pat was setting up his news bureau and Wolf was the 700 Club’s reporter from the Middle East. He was a lot younger in those days, but in those beginning days Pat exposed Wolf Blitzer to a viewing audience that topped the Nielsen ratings at 28.7 million monthly viewers! That’s a great way to launch one’s career. But Wolf Blitzer likes to keep that part of his career kind of quiet. He doesn’t list the 700 Club’s news bureau in his biography. He doesn’t tell CNN’s audience that Pat was like an angel to him when he was just an independent reporter starting out. But those of us who watched Pat’s show could never forget Wolf Blitzer’s reports. He was presented to us as such an expert—we were just so proud of him! And look how high he’s gone. You’d think he’d give Pat a little credit. No doubt he says “Thanks” by inviting him on CNN!"

[Phrogman]

89. AIPAC put Blitzer where he is now

after he did such a good job working for them.

[Riverman]

77. CNN, FOX, CBS, ABC (Disney) and NBC (GE) are all Part of the

War profiteering cabal - that immorally club that preys on the rest of us to pay for their psuedo comforts! Is it not amazing that with six years of vigorous attempts to not show the real horror of war that 67% of our country's population have seen enough of what little we actually see on the corporate media to say End this War Now! Stop the Killing! We cannot afford one more life to wait for the next election to change things. If the Democrats and some republicans do not act NOW, then they are showing by their inaction that they are co-conspiritors in perpetuating this evil! I want to throw my shoe at the TV everytime I see Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi talking. Who said something to the effect that evil prevails when good men (and women) do nothing!

God Bless Barbara Boxer for stating it right "Do the Right Thing, Now!" I wish she would run for President instead of Hillary.

[babylonsister]

2. Excellent, as the truth always is! Kick! nt

[Bluebear]

3. "(CNN was ) comfortably embedded in the worst administration in history"

You said it!!!!

[hvn_nbr_2]

54. Yep. As for me, I can't stomach CNN or the rest of the CorpoPravda cartel. nt

[LoveMyCali]

85. I'm with you

I tried to watch Larry King last night but I had to turn it part way through because I really wanted to slap someone watching Gupta's smug expression. :spank:
I did turn back to it but it still made me want to :puke:

[Vanje]

4. kickety kick

[aquart]

5. "...the journalists' abandoned work..."

Beeeyoooteeefooool.

[mzmolly]

6. Recommended.

:toast:

[wildbilln864]

7. recommended! n/t

[Bozita]

8. Kyra Phillips is the same anchorewhore who tangled with Pelosi

[rodeodance]

11. is she the one who once slept with Rush L??

[Bozita]

13. No, that one retired from broadcasting and is now engaged in some kind of feel-good thing

Sorry, can't remember her name.

[in_cog_ni_to]

14. No. That was Daryn Kagan (sp?) n/t

[Beausoir]

9. Kira The Flush Mistress.

She's a pig.

[EVDebs]

73. CNN and PsyOps never shut down

http://www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html

This article is from 2000, so you can just imagine how things must surely have taken a further 'turn for the worse' since then. An unleashed domestic spying apparatus, harassment of political enemies (meaning progressives and 'liberals', who would dissent on any M/I wars) and anti-corporate-agenda folks in general.

CNN's not too far from Ft. Gordon, btw.

[senseandsensibility]

10. This is at least the third time I've posted

on DU that KYra Phillips is the worst of the worst. She has no equal when it comes to partisan sneering comments. She has been doing this for a very long time. Shortly after the 2000 selection, her breathless references to "our new President" made me abandon CNN.

[Canuckistanian]

12. K&R

What the Americans shouldn't stomach is the ravings of a partisan, out of touch newsreader.

The CNN newsreader (let's not separate her from her employers) has made these kind of remarks before.

Either she makes an apology for her remarks or she should give her title as an objective reporter of fact.

[glitch]

15. Perhaps she meant can't stomach CNN. I know I can't. nt

[Rex]

16. Sicko = stomach it.

Some stupid joke, she doesn't care.

[farmboxer]

17. CNN has lied about Moore,they lied about Gore

they did nothing about the coup in America. The said nothing about the rent-a-mob in Fla to stop the recount. The said nothing about the lies about Bush about the war, etc. H

[FourScore]

18. k&r

[Gabi Hayes]

19. great post, as are many of the comments, like this, from 'ceti'

I am heartened by people here (obligatory trolls excepted) who have rallied to Moore's defense. He has been kicked, slandered, and shit upon by the "mainstream" corporate media, who by demolishing him have tried to demolish all hope in this country for change. That is really what they are after -- to make sure despair is convincing, to shut down all dissent, as they go on to plunder the country.

The number of scandals and examples of malicious incompetence are so long now, that the entire system of government is collapsing. Every agency and department has been corrupted through and through. Seven years after the fact, we have folks like Powell and now Carmona blowing the whistle much too late. But will the media even bat an eye? They pretty much excused Libby's commutation, and Gonzales is still hanging on.

Instead, the media tries to destroy individual like Michael Moore who persist in fighting the good fight for all Americans. God bless him.

[frogcycle]

37. I am heartened by people ...who have rallied to Moore's defense.

Hey he even won an Algae Award!

See link below.

Select "Activists"

[Kool Kitty]

20. Kick.

:kick:

[badgerpup]

21. K & R

:kick:

[deacon]

22. CNN is as bad as fox now-- ugh - zero credibility, both of them.

[still_one]

88. really, then why do you think they even allowed this dialog to occur?

wouldn't it have been easier for them to just put up their corporate talking heads to spout the same old reason why socialized medicine is bad?

No CNN actually did something right, they actually presented an opportunity to discuss it. It doesn't mean everyone you hear on the subject you will agree with, but at least it is trying to present all points of view

Perhaps this may be the start of something new, and Iraq will receive the attention it deserves also

[grasswire]

23. comment about Kyra directly at this link

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?16

[in_cog_ni_to]

27. I emailed them immediately after that wench said what she said. She needs to be FIRED.

:(

[daveskilt]

63. my email

In introducing Michael Moore's interview - "if you can stomach it"? Way to show journalistic integrity. This is the type of snide partisan sniping I would expect at Fox.

As a CEO in a hospital - I applaud Mr. Moore's effort to bring a sensible health care system to the US. It is only due to uninformed people like Ms. Phillips and a complicit propoganda spouting media (Ms. Phillips again) that we do not already have universal coverage.

[calimary]

29. Here's what I sent her, rating it "positive" so she'd be more likely to look at it:

Ms. Phillips -

I greatly look forward to your kind and heart-felt apology to Michael Moore. You're right! It IS important to "stomach" how he took your colleague, Wolf Blitzer, appart on the air for having trashed and marginalized him three years later.

What actually has been hardest to stomach is the constant cheerleading for war and for Bush in the numerous years after aggressions began in Iraq, and how our many protests and objections since then have gone basically uncovered and unheard.

I look forward with great excitement to that apology!

Thank you, much!

[EVDebs]

79. "A little bit of sugaar makes the medicine go dooown, the medicine go down...."

Always liked that Mary Poppins ditty.

[Tyler Durden]

33. My comment on that line:

"My comment is positive only in that I am POSITIVELY looking forward to your apology to Michael Moore and to the American Public for your abdication of your SACRED duty as a journalist (if indeed you see yourself that way: if instead you see yourself as a "news reader," then I expect to see you keep all of your comments to yourself). People like you, Sanjay Gupta, Wolf Bitzer and your lack of professional journalistic ethics are the main reason that I not only watch CNN as little as possible, but I also make a point for me and my family to purchase the products and services of competitors to your advertisers, letting both them and your advertisers know why I have made such a choice."

Of course this is what I do all the time anyway.

[Broadslidin]

56. Clicked the "Positive" Response in referring to my CNN e-mail comment......!!

With a few joyous words describing,
far more preferred European News Sources as
having replaced long ago
a rather shallow, untrustworthy cnn.

[zanne]

58. Done. That felt good. nt

[immoderate]

59. I said:

I don't blame you for resenting Michael Moore. He is a journalist and you are a media whore shill for the Bush administration. Fortunately, he is doing your job very well.

I marked it as "positive." :)

--IMM

[marylanddem]

94. I emailed them - thanks for the link

She is so full of shit, so smug, and needs to be fired.

[vanlassie]

24. Kicked!

[K8-EEE]

25. America's 2nd most nauseating, full of themselves BS news team

They shouldn't really feel that great about losing the first spot to the likes of John Gibbons & Brit Hume!

I always cringe when Wolfe gushes, "so and so is part of the most respected news organization..." YEAH RIGHT!

[EFerrari]

26. Betcha this will be lost on the three people who still watch them. n/t

[cascadiance]

28. We just can't stop seeing cheerleaders everyplace!

[ClayZ]

30. K and R

[xchrom]

31. recommend with a vengeance

[Enthusiast]

32. Wonderful! Right on! nt

[leftchick]

34. Kyra is the same moron caught on audio in the ladies room

and her idiotic musings while she was peeing went on air! I was shocked to see see had the audacity to sit in front of a camera after that.

[laruemtt]

43. she's the one who teared up

on air and had to ask for a minute to compose herself when they once aired pics of the fallen u.s. troops after a particularly horrible attack in iraq. she in her most heartfelt facade said something to the effect of 'it really gets you when you think of all these young soldiers who will never be coming back,' as though this was the first time it had actually dawned on her, no matter for how briefly. her vacuousness is frightening. but they're all that way, aren't they..........

[zanne]

60. I think Kyra believes whatever she is told to believe.

If we had a liberal president in the White House and a liberal media, then she'd be a liberal, too. Kyra knows what's good for Kyra, as do most news reporters. It's not about politics; it's all about her.

[acmavm]

35. If only we had a way to shove articles and pieces like this up the

nose of the bottom feeders and the Kool Aid Drinkers...

[PA Democrat]

36. Spot on. Anyone on a "news" network that gives air time to Glenn Beck

has no grounds for criticism of anyone else.

Besides, if someone said ***I*** had "fudged" numbers that were well-sourced and current, I would be as righteously offended a Moore was. I'd suggest they look up the definition of the word fudge. It means "to fake or falsify." There was nothing fake or false about Moore's numbers. CNN reveals their agenda once again.

[malaise]

38. Beautiful

The gig is up!!!
K & R

[Wetzelbill]

39. the term "fudged" would seriously piss me off too

It's a sneering term meaning that somebody deliberately lied. Now, if Sanjay said "Michael Moore made a few mistakes," that would be different. But if you go on air and say somebody "fudged the facts" that's a pretty harsh accusation. He deserved to be taken to task for it, and so did Blitzer and CNN.

[Katherine Brengle]

40. K&R -- these people are NOT journalists anymore - they're ACTORS.

Puke.

[frogcycle]

41. sad

back when it was Ted Turner's startup all-news network it was actually good. I preferred it to the entertainment networks' "news," Ted Koppell and a couple of others excepted.

Now it is a faux news wannabe


all the so-called "news" outlets have turned to shit. MSNBC gets credit for carrying Olberman, but that's about it.


With the power of TV, we need somehow, some way, to get more "face time" for the folks on Air America Radio. I just love Rachel Maddow, Randi Rhodes. Thom Hartman is fantastic. I love it when he has a rw nutcase on and debates him/her. And of course Steph is a hoot. Any one of them - and the others - Press, Schultz, etc. are as appropriate to have a studio with camera in which to do their thing as is that beck toad.

Wouldn't you think, with KO's ratings success, that some program director would wake up that the 80% of America who do not approve of the way things are going just might watch someone who agrees? Yes, I know that orally and beck have loyal audiences. So what, if someone is selling a product on the street that one in 5 buy, are you going to set up next to them selling the same thing? Or are you going to go after the 4 that said no thanks?

The LTTE's are good; maybe eventually it will start to sink in.

[Pyrzqxgl]

80. I grew up with Edward R. Murrow, Eric Severied, Harry Reasoner, John Chancellor,

Mike Wallace, Chet Huntley, David Brinkley, Walter Cronkite, Clete Roberts,
and even John Cameron Swayze (I'm aging myself). I watched and listened to
them all on television. Now I only watch Keith Obermann and get the rest of
my news and politics on Air America, DU, and occasionally PBS. You'd think
that the people who buy air time on CNN, MSNBC, & the networks would
realize that folks don't agree with the caliber of so called news anymore &
just don't bother to watch it. I talk to so many people who feel the way I do.
I certainly wouldn't buy any of the crap that advertises on todays so called
news.

[bluethruandthru]

97. You're right!

Many AAR/Jones Network folks are fantastic. I've never seen Thom Hartman on TV, but he's great on radio! He's another really smart person. I love Randi as well. Funny how the righty talkers are all such mean spirited parrots regurgitating the days RW talking points. Compare them to Rachel, Thom and the others... What an IQ disparity!

[NotGivingUp]

42. CNN and all the rest of them...PROPAGANDA 24/7

:puke:

[FredfromSpace]

44. In 03 Philips criticized Iraqi boy who lost his arms for not supporting the war

Check this and MORE at her Wiki profile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyra_Phillips


Kyra Phillips was criticised for her perceived insensitivity during an April 16, 2003 interview with Dr Imad al-Najada, the doctor of Ali Ismail Abbas, a 12-year-old boy who lost 15 relatives and both arms when a US missile hit his home in Baghdad.<5><6> Joan Walsh, news editor of Salon.com, wrote:<7>

"CNN hit rock bottom on Wednesday morning, when anchor Kyra Phillips interviewed Ali's doctor in Kuwait, Dr Imad al- Najada explained that, although Ali told reporters he was grateful for his treatment, he also hopes no other 'children in the war will suffer like what he suffered'. Phillips seemed shocked by Ali's apparent inability to understand we were only trying to help him. 'Doctor, does he understand why this war took place? Has he talked about Operation Iraqi Freedom and the meaning. Does he understand it?'"

On a CNN segment aired on April 21, 2005, one of her guests said that research showed that it was "a proven fact" that "children in same-sex couple homes are 11 times more likely to be abused sexually." This claim has no foundation in fact. In an article explaining how dubious and misleading statistics enter the national discourse with little notice, the Wall Street Journal columnist, Carl Bialik, later determined the figure to have been derived from research published in Psychological Reports by Dr. Paul Cameron. Cameron's research has been criticized by other scientists for statistical flaws as well as for being both a researcher and an advocate for anti-gay agendas. Phillips called it a "bold statement" and gave the other guest with an opposing view an immediate opportunity to respond to the assertion.<8> Kelly McBride, ethics group leader at the Poynter Institute, criticized Phillips for failing to challenge the statement, and said it is the responsibility of the anchor to ask pointed questions when such numbers are stated as fact. "This is one of the faults of live TV," McBride said. "It is the anchor’s job to push back. You have to have the skills to question. The idea is not to say 'yes, this is right,' or 'no, this is wrong,' but to give the audience some kind of context of where the research comes from."<9>

[Moochy]

90. Amazing

thanks for posting this... what a nasty human being she is.

[NotGivingUp]

45. Hopefully, this will just make them lose more of their audience. nt

[Maestro]

46. I love it.

Kyra is such a blow-hard as is Wolfie!

[madmom]

47. kick,kick,and double kick!!!!!

[Bitwit1234]

48. I have an idea but

may be we should start our own activist group. Sign members up who will help us boycott these asswipe's sponsors.

We could send letters, most companies delete email as spam. Telling them we are an activist group and we are starting to fight back with the media bias with only promoting republican views, republican ideas, and republican talking points.

We should tell them they should be fair. If the democrats do something wrong, report it. That is necessary for an informed country. BUT they should also report on the republicans. This Vitter thing has been given hardly any press at all. BUT they went wild over President Clinton. And he had consentual sex, didn't pay for it and break the law.

Anybody interested.

[DearAbby]

49. Kickin this n/t

[Janice325]

50. Just sent the email requesting an apology from her.

k&r

[greyghost]

51. Great post def. K&R! n/t

[w8liftinglady]

52. your emails re:Gupta/Situation appeared to have some influence...CNN had several apologies/retractio

...keep on this one-Kyra Phillips is skating on thin ice at CNN,from what I understand.

[janetle]

53. I heard her say it!

And I was shocked. I thought it was highly inappropriate no matter if she agreed with him or not. It was tacky and unprofessional.

[greyghost]

65. I hope so, she's nothing but a neo-con TOOL! n/t

[DirtyDawg]

55. If Ted were dead...

...he'd be spinning in his grave. But since he's not, why in hell doesn't he come out publicly and tell it like it is at CNN? The vision he had...the baby he birthed and nurtured...has turned into a punk. Whatever standing she had in the hearts and minds of those that respect 'The Fourth Estate', has been hollowed out and stands as a n empty shell of its former self. They're surviving on their reputation and quite frankly I wish they would just go away...we certainly don't need another FauxNoise Network.

What's the matter Ted, you got too much TW stock to risk telling the truth about 'em?

[churchofreality]

57. He's foolish to allow this shit.

The country is turning left and CNN is still on a right tack. They lost the right, they will lose whats left of the viewers if they keep it up.

[Bucky]

69. I don't think Turner is still running CNN: TimeWarner canned him... will Wiki this and report back.

per Wiki:

On January 29, 2003, AOL Time Warner announced that Ted Turner would resign as a vice chairman.

On February 24, 2006, Turner announced that he would not seek re-election as director on the Time Warner board of directors.

[JPZenger]

78. Ted Turner - Fired by Company that Named Him Man of the Year

Ted Turner once said that he was the one person who was fired by the same company that named him Man of the Year.

(He was Time's Man of the Year before Time-Warner swallowed his company. When their stock went down the toilet after they merged with AOL, he lost billions and then they booted him out).

[emald]

61. I accuse wolf blitzer of complicity in the Iraq debacle

It is no wonder CNN wants MM denigrated, they are support in part by big pharmas advertising. These corps will never, never take the part of the people over their paymasters. Never.
Telling the truth is not the strong point of these "news" shows.

[jhrobbins]

62. Yeah, but I really like Anderson Cooper - I just can't help it.

[janetle]

64. Me, too!!

[greyghost]

66. I used to have more respect for Mr. Cooper until I...

learned that he donated to Bush in 2004.

The man is GAY, what the hell is he doing contributing to the Bush campaign?

[BrainGlutton]

67. Does anyone have a link to the vid?

[BrainGlutton]

83. Found it!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/10/michael-moore-vs-wolf-blitzer-round-ii/

[Beam Me Up]

68. They owe us far more than an apology.

I'm not going to accept any "apology". Apologies are for mistakes. Iraq was no mistake -- just as their attitude toward Moore is no "mistake". It is policy. And it is not the policy of a free press.

What they -- and every other corporate owned purveyor of official lies, distortions and outright propaganda -- owe us is their broadcasting license.

[EVDebs]

74. Underlined, exclamation point ! nt

[KurtNYC]

70. the choice of "stomach" is also an ad hominim attack on Moore

the usual schoolyard substitute for logic, eg. 'Moore is overweight and therefore his facts are wrong.'

They do the same thing with Al Gore.

What a poor excuse for journalism.

[DutchLiberal]

72. But... but... haven't you heard??

CNN is the America-bashing, freedom-hating Communist News Network.

[SammyWinstonJack]

75. Well according too smarmy wolf, *it's a business*. That remark killed me!

That he would admit was a :wow: moment.

[thegreatcause2]

76. Michael is brilliant

Michael is getting his message out. The public is smarter than you think. By making maximum publicity of the issue, Michael is putting the issue front and center on the American radar screen. And what if Michael makes some arguable points? Nietzsche said, " what man has learned without reasons, who can overthrow that with reasons? "

[Patriot Abroad]

81. Kick it !

I've taken www.cnn.com off my shortcuts . . .

[Tesla]

82. K&R

[spanone]

84. K&R

[november3rd]

86. Narrow Minded

Americans have always been narrow minded when it comes to understanding the experience of foreigners, the thinking of people from foreign language groups, and the iimportance of humility and respect in relation to strangers.

Now at least we can blame it on the media, along with almost everything else.

[still_one]

87. As bad as the MSM is, at least they are allowing the dialog

and that is far better than fox or even most of the others would do

Don't get me wrong, I seledom even watch the MSM or cable new shows, but this is not a bad thing, and CNN isn't cutting Michael Moore off. If you saw the Larry King interview you would have realized that Sanjay Gupta was mostly agreeing with Moore

And as much as people are trashing Blitzer, I would like to point out that he didn't cut Michael Moore off, and did allow an open dialog, which is unusal for the MSM today. In fact Moore appologized to Blitzer for laying the whole lack of critical thinking which led us into the war. He acknowledged it was the entire MSM.

No, CNN should be given credit for this, because it has been a long time since I have heard an open debate on an subject where BOTH sides are presented.

Agreed the snide remarks from dobbs or the other anchors/commentators was innappropriate, but still the dialog has started

[Moochy]

91. Roundhouse

Kick! :kick:

[Madspirit]

92. k&r! n/t

[rambler_american]

93. K&R

:kick:

[lakeguy]

95. i hate to say it...

but CNN doesnt care what any of us thinks. they dont care if we boycott because theyve got plenty of money coming in from other sources. they dont care if 50 million americans dont have health coverage because everyone at CNN (the 'important' ones at least) are so damn rich they dont even need insurance.

the msm is now a propoganda outlet. the best thing to do is to get people to stop watching. i know, its not going to happen. but emailing them is going to do the same amount of good. dont waste your time...better to bring up the truth as often as you can in public to get people thinking. let people overhear your coversations and maybe theyll start thinking for themselves and turn the msm off, for good.

[BrightKnight]

96. You have to get behind someone

before you can back stab them.