A question for those who lived through the Lyndon Johnson/Vietnam war era.

[Raven]

I am really memory challenged! I remember the marches and demonstrations and it seems that there was a lot more of that then than there is now and that many more students were involved than there are now. BUT what I can't remember is what Johnson said at press conferences like the one Bush had this morning. Were the tactics basically the same...we gotta get them or the world will end...I'm listening to the advice of my generals....? In those days it was William Westmoreland, who died in disgrace because of Vietnam.

[wakeme2008]

1. more all the time but most not as big as some now

but the big difference was THE DRAFT...

[Raven]

5. OK, yes...which is why this administration will continue to

abuse our troops, extend tours, anything to avoid having this war touch more Americans than it already has.

[Whoa_Nelly]

12. Absolutely it was the draft that pushed people to react openly

With hundred of young men being drafted, sent overseas every day and the death and injury toll mounting quickly, the call to end human fodder as fuel for politics was manic in its rage against the political machine.

Our young citizens were being forced to fight in a civil war that was not ours to fight, but was perceived by those leading our nation as necessary to maintaining political borders per the Cold War era.

Should the draft be reinstated for this war, I have no doubt that there will be opposition in the streets reminiscent of the '60s and '70s.

[NMDemDist2]

2. the students marched because their asses were getting DRAFTED

to go fight

the meme of the day as "Domino Theory" instead of "We'll fight em over there so we don't have to fight them over here."

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. In effect, they're the same arguments --

the commies will take all of asia, then Australia, then they'll be landing in Malibu. Sounds a lot like fight them in Vietnam so we won't have to fight them in Orange County.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. And being a young woman back then marched so none of the young men in our

country were drafted for an immoral war.

[H2O Man]

3. "The light

at the end of the tunnel."

[Richardo]

4. That, and the 'Domino Theory'

If Vietnam goes Communist the rest of SE Asia will soon follow.

[H2O Man]

7. Right.

LBJ also said the curious, "bring home the coonskin..."

[lazer47]

6. They claimed the whole world would fall to communism

by another theory that was called the Domino Effect,,,,Same same,, Fear Fear, the Godless hoards are coming to take you away, Same speech different year.

[Sapere aude]

8. Back then it was the domino theory. If South East Asia fell to the Communists so would all of Asia

and soon the rest of the world. We had to fight them there so they would not take us over. Similar to today's bull shit.

My thinking about the Vietnam war was that we wanted the oil that was in the Gulf of Tonkin and did not want Russia to have it. We lost and Russia got the oil. This was very soon after the Mid East oil producers nationalized their oil industries and formed OPEC.

My thinking is that most wars are about making sure a nation has the resources needed to keep their standard of living and way of life intact.

[southerncrone]

9. Draft was the driving force, plus

average citizens were better informed and engaged in the political process because there were less distractions & journalism still had some integrity. News was on all channels & you could not escape to "cable" to avoid it.

Citizens had not been robbed of their rights then & did not FEAR their govt. as much YET if they spoke out against it!

[BobRossi]

10. Red menace.

"If we don't stop them in Viet Nam they will be at our front door".

Draft was impetus for large anti-war movement.

[charlyvi]

11. The media covered the marches then.

Now they aren't covered as well, so I honestly don't know if the protests are less frequent now. I suspect not.

[HereSince1628]

13. Lyndon was also afraid of losing. And he knew he had lost

and that he had made terrible decisions that cost many people their lives.

On this point Vietnam and Iraq can't be considered the same. In the end Lyndon had a conscience and his outstanding failure absolutely ate him up. Bush has no sense of guilt and he sleeps well at night.

[EFerrari]

14. I was only a teenager but iirc, yes, Johnson said the same things.

The difference was, imho, that the press hadn't been co-pted yet so we got a variety of viewpoints.

[bdamomma]

19. and we lived seeing the war on TV news every night

the media was there, now you see nothing. I think PBS is the only station which shows reporters from ITN giving reports.

[EFerrari]

20. War has been sanitized. It's all about nationalistic crap now

not about a truly national experience. :(

[trashcanistanista]

29. This is what I think did it

watching the war and carnage every night during dinner. It was in your face. Footage of agent orange hitting people, people running in the streets injured and bleeding. Family fights erupted over it. Everyone was on one side or the other. Massive demonstrations were televised, everyone was involved in some way or had an opinion. It was constantly discussed at school. The draft loomed for high schoolers. It was a cultural phenomenon with a soundtrack and it still took so damn long to end.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. It was the same bullshit. Different bullshitter. And, LBJ was more cunning.

The same "support the troops", faux "patriotism", and ruthless murder...but it was done to "save" us from the red hordes instead of the "terrists".

[pink-o]

16. It is a little creepy that a lot of the same playahs in Vietnam are doing Iraq today

...most notably that criminal Henry Dr Strangelove Kissinger. And also journalist Sy Hersch, who exposed the Mei Lai massacre the same way he brought Abu Garib to light.

But it's true the biggest difference was the draft, and the fact that kids had a personal stake in stopping Vietnam. In 30 years, the Repigs have done their jobs well: they've made sure that this generation has been raised on Top Gun and video games that glamorise war, permeated their lives with propaganda, detached them from how government works and insured they get no social approval for fighting authority. Rebellion has become a trivial fashion statement, a passing phase that you grow out of after a certain age and become a big conformist. A good little soldier who'll do as your told, as long as you don't have to personally pay the price.

But the most glaring difference between then and now, the most insidious and evil way the Repigs have insured no one will protest, is that they've gotten the Mainstream Media to collude with them. The MSM, who're owned by companies making profits from the Military Industrial Complex. Back then, journalists could not be bought, there were no Novakulas or Judy Millers. The NYT had integrity.

I miss that most of all, I think.

[VP505]

17. I don't remember

any of the fear mongering like we have now, it was more like stopping communism in Vietnam to keep the rest of Asia from falling. That was a whole different time, we had those opposing the draft, and those opposing the war and those opposing both, but I just don't remember Johnson or Nixon spreading fear and telling us that some guy in black pajamas was hiding and waiting to attack.

[ramapo]

18. Then came Nixon

America love it or leave it
My country right or wrong

Construction workers beating up peace demonstrators

Kent State

The peace movement forced Johnson from office. Nixon was actually the peace candidate! Humphrey screwed up (kind of like Gore). Then Nixon used the war to make sure he got reelected (Peace with Honor!).

It's deja vu all over again.

[ChickMagic]

22. Plus Nixon's secret plan

to end the war, which turned out to be escalation.

[Arkansas Granny]

21. The draft had a lot to do with the anti-war protests during the

Vietnam era. That alone got a lot more people involved, especially those who were facing the draft.

A big difference between Johnson and Bush is the fact that Johnson felt responsibile for the death and destruction of the Vietnam war and it showed in his face. Bush has no empathy and no feelings of remorse for a war that he started.

[Raven]

26. I was thinking that Johnson didn't live very long after he

left office. I guess he may have had a conscience and it caught up with him. I suspect that GWB will live a long, happy, prosperous life.

[bdamomma]

32. and who ever thought of pre emptive war, striking them before

they strike us, what total BS that is, I hate it....sigh

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. I was a teenager then and never listened to his press conferences. I just wanted us out of Vietnam.

I marched and I demonstrated.

[Hubert Flottz]

27. I remember how awful it felt watching the boxes come home...

and I'll never forget it, the waiting for my turn to come up, to go over there, you want to go, but then you don't want to...and now I can imagine how much more trapped the people fighting in Bush's war must feel. Trip after trip BACK to Iraq, has to be maddening.

[mrcheerful]

28. Thats just it, after 1967 Johnson's speech's were not listened to for the main reason was

that during TET Johnson was telling us everything was fine yet we saw on the 6 o'clock news that it was a lost cause.
But remember also, people 30 and 40 years ago were not brain washed by TV or war movies, remember only John Wayne made a movie about Viet Nam that was pro war. I remember that when Johnson and Nixon gave speeches on TV, the TV was turned off, dad said presidential speeches weren't worth the paper they were written on so why listen to someone that was going to tell you what you wanted to hear and not what action needed to be done. Some times I am amazed at the way people hang on every word a politician says. Reality is, only a small percentage of what they say will happen if elected will happen. That was true in 1780 and nothing has changed that fact.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

30. Communism!

It's gonna take over and we'd better fight them to prevent it from spreading!
Now look, I have a jacket and the tag says "Made in Vietnam" :wtf:

[demigoddess]

31. one other difference is that the war was covered nightly on the news.

We all saw it was a hopeless war. They were trying to scare us with the line that all the world would fall to communism if vietnam fell. They too, tried to sell the idea that america should chose who ran another country, elected or not. That we could spread democracy with war.