Of COURSE Nancy isn't going to support impeachment!

[Chichiri]

Because after the Chimp and the Dick, she's next in the line of succession, and all the pukers in the MSM will point that out every single fucking chance they get, and it will be seen as a power play by Nancy and the Democrats. We'll lose a great deal of support from the moderates, and may even blow our chances in the '08 elections.

Whatever talk there might be of impeachment, Nancy HAS to distance herself from it as much as possible. She must support impeachment very reluctantly, and at the last possible moment, if at all. When the time comes to draw first blood, she won't be the one holding the knife. She won't even be in the room.

That's not a reflection on Nancy's character -- that's just basic politics.

When the time comes to draw first blood -- and I suspect it will come, and hope it comes very soon -- look for a guy named John Conyers to be holding the blade.

[WCGreen]

1. They would go after Dick first, if it were to happen, and the

a new VP would be picked by Bush, vetted and voted on by the Senate...

It's how Ford became VP...

[rodeodance]

3. Dick will have surgery this summer, so it will be a while.

[Chichiri]

5. News to me. What for?

[rodeodance]

10. valve replacement or packer work--In either case, he will get symphathy and

dems will not go after a sick man----which I think is the right thing to do.

[never cry wolf]

42. I thought I read his pacemaker needs a new battery

I hope they get one from China.

[Rabrrrrrr]

7. Then we pull a Gingrich, and serve his impeachment papers at his hospital bed

:rofl:

[ThomWV]

35. He doesn't have to be in the room to be impeached

[Chichiri]

4. True, but it's getting a bit late in the day . . .

. . . to do them one at a time. If Dick is impeached, I don't believe the Chimp will be.

[defendandprotect]

17. No -- it should be removal of both -- supend them --

New elections -- immediately --

And, Nancy Pelosi would have to remove herself from any possibility of being a 2008 candidate.

[earthlover]

23. Oh...so in order to preserve the constitution, we just throw it out because we don't want Pelosi in?

The Constitution plainly says that if the Pres and VP are gone, Speaker of House is Pres.

In order to have full elections immediately, that would take an amendment to the constitution, requiring 2/3 vote in both houses, then ratification by 3/4 of the states.

I think you have your work cut out for you to get immediate elections...

Of course you could always just throw out the Constitution. Just start the precedent for monkeying around with when elections are held.

Never mind. What ever.

[creeksneakers2]

30. There's an amendment that deals with vacancies

The president appoints and its ratified by the House. The only way Pelosi could wind up president is if both Cheney and Bush go at exactly the same time, and there's nobody left to appoint a successor.

[earthlover]

36. Pardon me, I thought impeaching Bush AND Cheney was one plan

If you just convict Bush, Cheney becomes president. Ugh.

If you just convict Cheney, Bush appoints his successor. Probably a New England liberal....sarc

If you later convict Bush, what happens is Bush gets to in effect name his own successor.

Face it, if Pelosi is arguing for impeachment....the only way to prevent her and the entire process from being painted as a power play is to take impeaching BOTH bush and cheney off the table.

Seems like this table is getting worn.

Quite frankly, there are a lot of other Dem congresspeople who can lead the impeachment battle. Pelosi, by not joining in, is doing what she has to do. Pelosi arguing for impeachment at this stage would be the kiss of death for any chances of getting an impeachment, and it would also damage Democratic chances for Congress and probably president in 08.

[aquart]

2. Fine by me. Hope it's sharp.

[Chichiri]

9. I don't. I hope it's a spoon.

As in, "Locksley! I'm going to cut your heart out with a spoon!"

"Why a spoon? Why not a knife, or..."

"Because it's dull, you twit! It'll hurt more!"

[CitizenLeft]

39. LOLOL!

That is my favorite scene, and I quote it all the time too! :D

[Dogmudgeon]

6. Good point

Of course, we should still clamor for impeachment. It will allow her to wield the "big stick". And it will give us a stick of our own.

This is a two-way street. The more power Nancy Pelosi gets from US, the more Democracy we will have. People forget that aren't just there to obey our whims, but to manage the details that we can't.

--p!

[Chichiri]

8. Of COURSE we should keep clamoring!

That's how our government derives its power, from the consent of the governed. We just need enough people to withdraw their consent.

[Control-Z]

11. I tried to point this out

in a single sentence.

'Had Nancy put impeachment on the table straight out of the gate, the "power grabbing Speaker vies for higher seat, etc..." puke spin would have demeaned her authority, and diminished her capacity, as Speaker, to effect change, imho.'

Better luck with your fuller more eloquent version. I agree with you. She will support impeachment very reluctantly, as she should.

[Dogmudgeon]

31. I saw your thread and commented in it

The pack-of-howling-wolves mentality is pretty common in general. I don't blame them, but it can be discouraging.

I'm also frustrated. I personally feel that Nancy Pelosi could take more liberties with her power than she has. But SHE is the Speaker, not me. But, yes, it makes sense that it is she who should present the face of restraint. Conyers, Waxman, and the rest are doing an excellent job of turning the heat up. Two years from now, it will really be paying dividends.

--p!

[calimary]

33. Just as long as she finally comes around to supporting it, or

maybe recusing herself to avoid appearances of conflict of interest.

I don't care. Just as long as IMPEACHMENT is back on the table. To keep it off is to give away our ONE big bargaining chip. Not to mention the tacit approval that telegraphs to all future presidents who would presume they could run amok with power.

[mudesi]

12. What is it with this fear of the Republican spin machine?

It sounds like more excuses to me. "The Republicans will spin it to look like so and so...." Who cares what the Republicans do?

The Republicans have become irrelevant. When will this cowardice end? The Democrats have an opportunity here to show America that they are capable of leadership.

[Chichiri]

13. No, the Republicans have not become irrelevant.

They still control the White House, SCOTUS, many other courts, and the MSM. And while Democrats have strong, positive messages for the American people, the pukers are the ones who control message distribution.

For now.

[mmonk]

14. Have you checked the latest approval ratings of congress?

They are sinking like a rock. Among democratic voters, it's dropped from the 40's to around 21 % since May. Seems the current path isn't very popular.

[Chichiri]

15. Then we're close . . .

Almost there, perhaps . . .

but like I said, when first blood comes, Nancy won't be the one drawing it.

[mmonk]

18. Kucinich already put articles of impeachment forth.

[mmonk]

21. Here's the process.

While the Constitution outlines the basic process for impeachment, the specific procedures are determined by the internal rules of the House of Representatives and the Senate. To begin, the House of Representatives refers the investigation to its Judiciary Committee, which reviews the evidence and may conduct hearings. It determines whether an official impeachment inquiry is warranted and, if so, asks the House for permission to proceed. An official investigation follows, with the Committee deciding whether to offer articles of impeachment to the full House. The House then votes separately on each of the articles, with a simple majority needed to impeach the official. Articles of impeachment approved by the House are then presented to the Secretary of the U.S. Senate for trial.


Source: American Bar Association

[Swamp Rat]

16. She's been reluctant enough...

and the pukers in the MSM will point out anything and everything until the cows come home... or the chickens roost, or the lizards do something...

[wiggs]

19. Have you seen this?

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html

I think the case is made pretty strongly by a dem and a republican that country has to come before politics and that impeachment is necessary.

[Chichiri]

26. I haven't seen it yet, been meaning to.

If my position changes, I'll say so in GD.

[Tom Joad]

20. she is not distancing herself, she is intervening to prevent it.

thanks nancy.

[snappyturtle]

22. Madame Speaker took an oath to protect and defend the

Constitution....she is instead allowing politics to dictate her position....not good. That's all she has to say when she puts impeachment on the table; the Founding Fathers gave us the Constitution to help our leaders lead.....all politics aside.

[Chichiri]

25. I don't know if you've noticed . . .

. . . but the Constitution hasn't been very popular since 9/11.

It's only now starting to rebound. These things take time. I wish to god they didn't, but they do.

[2Design]

24. impeachment - and then who ever is put in forgives them

and does the same thing we need to work on getting more things done and getting out of the freakin war

[Vincardog]

27. "who ever is put in forgives them" BULLSHIT that is what got us into this mess

They should completed the impeachment of NIXON.
Ford should never have pardoned him.
IRAN/Contra sewed the seeds that blossomed into the current mess.

[Ghost in the Machine]

34. We're not going to get out of the 'freakin war' until we remove the warmongers

What don't you people understand about that??

It doesn't make a damn *what* kind of legislation the House and/or Senate passes, if Bush doesn't like it, he's going to veto it. If it was passed by a veto proof majority, he'll just render it moot with a signing statement.

It's that damned simple, why can't you understand it???

IMPEACH NOW!!!

[phildo]

44. HUAHH!!!! Good Root Cause Analysis.

[earthlover]

28. Great point!

Pelosi is the LEAST likely person to support impeachment. It would make it look like the issue was Nancy Pelosi. The issue is Bush and Cheney, and we shouldn't be STUPID enough to give the Reps an opening to divert it to trying to make it look like it is a power play by Pelosi. Pelosi is doing exactly what she should do. If she spoke in favor of impeachment, this would HURT the chances for impeachment. I guess there are some exciteable lug nuts out there who can't understand this. But think about it. Someone else has to take the banner. There are lots of other Democratic congressfolk. Centering on Pelosi for inaction is naive in the extreeme. How about pressuring some of the other Congressfolk who actually would help the impeachment cause by their speaking out? Impeachment is serious business, and so is the 08 elections. We have a moral imperative to prevent 4 more years of Republican rule. Bush is out anyway. If we are STUPID enough to make it look like we are impeaching for political reasons, we deserve whatever fate we so stupidly make ourselves vulnerable to.

[Kokonoe]

29. Well listen up

Nancy is smart enough to know that bush would rather go down in US nuclear Holocaust, rather than admit he's a miserable failure. So we need to remember all that we love before risking pernicious behavior. She is outsmarting a madman. And by the way, in the event described above he would surely cancel all elections, and remain president. How many people died in Katrina because the Governor didn't sign some piece of paper before Rove would help. It's not about helping America. Bush is now a GLOBAL problem, and he thinks he's Napoleon.Napoleon had the world military power. But the main street media wasn't invented yet. Now Bush owns the media from top to bottom, and it's his edge over NAPOLEON! Bush has replaced the booze habit with power, and now he's on the booze. God help us and God bless the United States of America.

[AntiFascist]

32. Go after Cheney first, then with any luck Bush will just resign...

then, politically, it was Bush's action placing Pelosi into power. Even if Bush remains in office, he will truly become a lame duck without Cheney, meanwhile the system of government we enjoy gets returned to normal.

[earthlover]

37. Bush already is a lame duck, even with Cheney

[AntiFascist]

45. Not so fast, they are still trying to build support for bombing Iran. n/t

[GeorgeGist]

38. Ah the wonders of ...

Noble lies that give rise to ignoble truths.

[Jade Fox]

40. Well, we all can't be perfect like you.....

Perfectly self-righteous, that is.

[KharmaTrain]

41. Henry Waxman As Well

Sadly, we have a byzantine political system that can't change in a heartbeat to the wishes of many here. I always find it ironic that some who are highly critical of the lock-step Repugnicans and their kool-aid drinking habits expect Democrats to act as a monolith...a my way or the highway attitude. If a Democrat votes the wrong way on one bill or if they appear to be "appeasing" (insert broad definitions here), then they are sell-outs or DINOs or worse.

It's been pointed out here many times...and on other blogs as well, one of our greatest fights with impeachment won't be for the "people" (another abused term) but with the corporate media who will endlessly look for ways to divide and paint an impeachment as a Democratic coup-de-etat. They'll distort and divert from the crimes and turn it into a personality contest...we won't hear about torture or outting a CIA agent or tapping phones and email, the "debate" will be about "boooosh haters"...like we're convulsed purely on this fukstick's "personna". The GOOP spinnners and their cocktail party buddies in the beltway media will have a cause celebre and the Mighty Wurlitzer will play loud and strong 24/7.

Pelosi has had to run several gauntlets since last November. First, to consolidate power within a very diverse party that would give her a working majority to pass legislation. Also, this was a party that had been out of power...TOTALLY cut out...for 12 years. It was like the crew finally getting up to the ship's bridge and trying to figure out "how to steer this thing". There was a learning curve that would be natural for many representatives who were all but gagged for most of their terms. Call it getting comfortable in their skin.

Pelosi is damned no matter what she does. Be it her jet or if impeachment is on or off the table. In the meantime much of what she does get accomplished...like a grant to colleges that will help keep tuition from continuing to climb and make more money available for government grants...went totally un-noticed. Also many of the bills still sit adrift in the McConnell gridlock in the Senate.

If and when compelling evidence comes of real crimes, the concept of impeachment being on "the table", will be a moot point. Pelosi can't prevent a Maxine Waters or other member of the Judiciary Committee from introducing articles into the committee...and if Conyers says it's a go and the committee agrees...Pelosi can't stand in the way.

Another person whose voice should be headed is Henry Waxman. He's long followed the corruption of not just the booosh regime, but Repugnicans across the board. He's been working overtime since January to investigate various crimes and complained that the problems wasn't what to look for, but where to start. If this man says he has evidence of an impeachable crime, then watch how the worm turns.

We're frustrated...we're angry and we're spoilin' for a fight. I just advise to pick your fights to ones you can win...and set the foundation for winning the bigger battles ahead.

Cheers...

[mzmolly]

43. Recommended.

:hi: