Larry C Johnson : Deep Shiite, We've Driven Off the Cliff

[RedEarth]

The ethnic cleansing of Baghdad is well advanced and the United States does not have the military force in place to alter the course of these events without engaging in a full scale war against the militias of Moqtada al Sadr and Abdul Aziz al-Hakim. By the end of September the various Shia militias will control close to 90% of the city.

So what? For starters it is no coincidence that the Green Zone has sustained multiple mortar bombardments in the last couple of weeks. The bombardment comes in the wake of stepped up U.S. military assaults against Shia targets in eastern Baghdad. The simple fact that the mortars can be fired seemingly at will into the Green Zone without effective counter battery highlights the limited operational capability of the U.S. forces that have "surged" into Baghdad.

The security situation in Baghdad, within the so-called “highly secure” Green Zone has deteriorated to the point that U.S. personnel venturing outside must wear body armor and helmets. Check out the story broken by McClatchey and the memo itself.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/17/12737/9385


BAGHDAD — The dress code at the Blue Star restaurant inside Baghdad's Green Zone now calls for vest and hat.

Flak vest and Kevlar helmet, to be precise.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/17960.html

[Skink]

1. Aren't they moving back to the outer reaches while the surge is in place?

[redqueen]

2. butbutbut... Gen Pace said...!

:eyes:

[formercia]

3. Mortars make ideal siege guns

You can make the walls as high and thick as you want.

The green Zone is looking more like the siege of a Crusader castle by the day.

[Toots]

4. Yes and extremely mobile but not really very effective

They don't really do much damage, mostly just a huge nuisance. Maybe a sustained attack on a particular target, they may do some damage but usually it is only a couple here and a couple there as they don't want to be targeted..

[formercia]

5. The psychological effect of being caught in the open.

You're right that they don't do a lot of materiel damage unless they hit an ammunition or POL dump. They can ruin your day even with a vest and helmet.

[Adsos Letter]

6. yup...

they provide the psychological effect of H & I fire and can, indeed, ruin your day if you are out in the open near an impact. They aint toys...

[formercia]

7. Here's one that will really ruin your day:

and reportedly in the Iraqi inventory...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S4_Tyulpan



The 2S4 Tyulpan ( English: tulip) is a Soviet self-propelled mortar. "2S4" is its GRAU designation.

It was identified for the first time in 1975 in the Soviet army and so was called M-1975 by NATO, whereas its official designation is SM-240(2S4). Its design is based on the GMZ tracked minelaying vehicle carrying an externally mounted M-240 240 mm breech-loading mortar on the hull rear.

The crew consists of four men, but an extra five are required to operate the mortar. This has a range of 9,650 m but an extended range munition exists with a possible range of 20,000 m. Due to the large size of the weapon and the weight of the ammunition (130 kg for a standard projectile) it has a slow rate of fire: one round per minute. In addition to the high explosive bombs, it can fire armour-piercing, chemical and nuclear rounds. It can also fire the "Smel'chak" (daredevil), a laser-guided round.

Tyulpan is currently the heaviest mortar in deployment among any country.

[Adsos Letter]

8. whoa...240mm?...yikes!

I was on the M-109A1 and I know what the standard 155mm round is capable of...I'm thinking the 175mm was the largest I ever saw deployed, but that was over 30 years ago...

The problem with the track is hiding it...but I suppose they could keep it in some kind of garage and roll it in and out between missions. I didn't notice the range, so I'll have to go back and check that...

Edit: I just reread the range in your post...extended range (large charge?) 20,000m? That's a long way out...and I wonder if they have access to the "special munitions"...even the 9,600m+ is a ways out there...wonder what kind of sound signature it makes...

[formercia]

9. The armor piercing rounds are designed to bust concrete

This is a siege gun.

[Adsos Letter]

10. yup...most mortars of that size are...

reminds me of the much larger ones the German army hauled up by rail during both world wars...Thor and Bertha, I believe.

I seem to recall the Soviets fielding a very large baseplate-type mortar which had to be fired by long lanyard because of it's...unpredictability...off-topic, but it came to mind.

[formercia]

12. Named after Bertha Krupp

http://html2.free.fr/canons/bertha.htm



LA GROSSE BERTHA

Informations Techniques
Nom officiel: M 42
Surnom: Dicke Bertha (grosse Bertha), Fleissige Bertha (Bertha l'assidue)
Calibre: 420mm (16,5 in).
Portée: 12.5Km (7.7 miles).
Poids total: 70 Tm.
Poids obus: 800KG (1763lb).
Vitesse d'éjection: 400M/s.

[formercia]

11. "..wonder what kind of sound signature it makes..."

With all of the bombs going off every day, nobody will probably notice.


I bet the incoming round sounds like a freight train. The Baghdad Express.

[redqueen]

13. Kick

:kick: