I want to know why the House FISA Bill was set up for failure.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

The House FISA bill needed 2/3 majority in order to pass. It was done under the Suspension of Rules.

The House Bill was DOOMED to failure from the get go. Why??? I looked at the House Rules and Suspension of the Rules usually occurs -- from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_the_rules


U.S. House of Representatives

Suspension of the rules is a procedure generally used to quickly pass non-controversial bills.


Snip

Most often, bills "on suspension" are non-controversial legislation -- such as naming Post Offices of the United States Postal Service or federal buildings -- and nearly all bills that are considered under suspension rules have bipartisan support. Both major political parties in the United States -- the Democratic Party and Republican Party -- have internal rules that prohibit proposing or supporting a bill under suspension unless it costs less than $100 million.

Was this a non-controversial bill that should be quickly passed????

IMHO, The House Vote Friday Night Was A Farce, It Was Grand Theater.

Leadership Knew from the Start that It would be the Senate Bill that would be signed into law.

[endarkenment]

1. War Party controls Congress.

We have been had. If you have a better explanation please post it.

[The Stranger]

21. The "War Party" made up of subsets of both "Democrats" and Republicans?

That is exactly right.

[Usrename]

42. War party might be too kind of a description.

The fascist party?

[cynatnite]

2. bush and the repukes knew recess was coming...

It was bush who brought up these changes in FISA in his radio address last weekend, I believe. The Dems got a bill together and negotations were going along fine when Thursday night bush's version was submitted by a repuke on an intelligence committee. That was when negotiations stopped. The WH and the repukes went on a media campaign to ratchet up the pressure on this by waving the flag and yelling terra, terra, terra. CNN did a report showing the repukes all standing together ranting about protecting the homeland and all that. It was quite disgusting.

Also, it wasn't by chance that the Dems were going into recess. IMO, bush and the repukes set it up like this so bush could have his pocket veto.

"The one exception to this rule is if Congress adjourns before the ten days have passed and the President has not yet signed the bill. In such a case, the bill does not become law; it is effectively, if not actually, vetoed. If the President does sign the bill, the bill becomes law. Ignoring legislation, or "putting a bill in one's pocket" until Congress adjourns is thus called a pocket veto. Since Congress cannot vote while in adjournment, a pocket veto cannot be overridden."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_veto

There is no getting around the fact that the Dems caved on this. They backed down from the predictable use of fear that bush and the repukes are so famous for. The way bush and the repukes went about it smacks of dirty politics and we all know where that filth came from. Karl Rove.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

3. FISA was working and the Democrats never should have given him a bill in the first place.

With a pResident with a 30% approval rating and Congress with 3%, the Democrats would have shown Great Strength and give the People wanted they voted for in November by ignoring Herr pResident's "demands"

America has caught on to the rhetoric of fear.

[cynatnite]

5. I agree...

they updated FISA after 9/11 the following month. But I do understand better on how and why this happened.

[robinlynne]

23. absolutely true.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

4. BTW...how many people in our country do you think ACTUALLY saw that demonstration

by the Repukes, or heard Shrub's bumped up rhetoric. Maybe a couple of million? A drop in the bucket.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

6. ..

[creeksneakers2]

37. I don't understand how the Republican bill got to the floor

How did it get out of committee in the Senate? Why was it brought up for a vote by both houses?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

53. And that is the big question? I thought we had the Majority, didn't you? eom

[Usrename]

43. So now Nancy Pelosi is working hand in glove with Carl Rove?

How does Rove, or any republican for that matter, get the bill to the floor for a vote?

[Warren Stupidity]

44. Please provide another explanation. nt.

[Junkdrawer]

7. I have yet to hear even the apologists TRY to explain this one...

the best they've said so far is "incompetence"...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

12. Incompentence my ass. This was Pre-Meditated. It's as plain as day what happened.

That's also why the Senate went into summer recess after they passed their bill. They knew the House was going to approve it.

[Junkdrawer]

13. But...but...

"I voted for a limited FISA fix, but when that failed, I reluctantly voted to give Bush the power to keep this country safe."

"You believe me, don't you? Minimum Wage! Minimum Wage!"

[flyarm]

17. absolutely..and remember the US Attorney whistle blower had his computers removed from his home

before these votes...so our dems left that man unprotected with this bullshit! more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/6/81143/73736

they left this entire nation with no recourse of the laws this administration have broken with their wiretapping..which was begun ..before 9/11..so their wiretapping did not protect this nation on 9/11 ..so why would anyone think giving up our constitutional rights now legally will make us any safer???????????

and if this was such a important measure for national security that it had to be done before going on vacation..what the fuck are all these people doing going on vacation????????

if it was such an emergency for national security..why is little lord pissy pants on vacation again?????????

this was bogus..we were sold down the river as American Citizens..

our constitution was just shit all over then burned!

political theater..i can not say that enough!!

fly

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. I agree with you 100% dear fly. FISA was working fine. It was Bush who wasn't when

he started the Illegal NSA wiretaps. They legitimized his illegal actions.

And as to summer vacation...don't get me started.....

[redqueen]

24. Incompetence?

Seriously?

*sigh*

[Junkdrawer]

26. Incompetence

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1524602&mesg_id=1524849

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

27. .....

:eyes:

[leftchick]

46. oh please

pathetic.

[Bumblebee]

28. They cannot. It's easier to blame the House and the Senate Dems who

voted for the wrong bill than to admit that it was the leadership that utterly betrayed us. If people think it can be now easily undone, they are just setting themselves for an even graver disappointment six months from now. In these matters whatever Georgie wants, Georgie gets... I like Pelosi a lot, and I like Reid, but what they did is unforgivable.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. A reply I had on another thread about the six months. I commented that

floor speakers were saying how impossible it would be to go back and fix it. Some used the Patriot Act as an example.

This was a brilliant reply I received..

Lazer47
7. This is as stupid as trying to put all of the Atoms back in the bomb

after it has gone off.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1518011#1518157

[Bumblebee]

30. An accurate analogy, I am afraid. I understand the impulse on the

part of those who want to believe. Have been there myself many, many times; even after the disastrous Iraq resolution. And it's bad that we are angry and the right wingers read us and gloat. I understand all that -- but this was such a devastating blow even to those of us who like to see bottles as half full. Here you have to be truly delusional to see it that way.

[redqueen]

33. I guess they're too 'incompetent' to learn from *current events*.

:banghead:

[ooglymoogly]

8. This is an important issue and needs to get onto the front

page....Wish I could nominate it more

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

14. Thank you ooglymoogly! eom

[MrCoffee]

9. k&r...what a great question.

too bad i don't have an answer that won't get me TS'd

[flyarm]

10. political theater!!..it was nothing but political theater!!

these people have now left the American people with no recourse of the laws this admin has broken..none..they took law breaking by this admin and just made breaking the laws of this land legal!

WE THE PEOPLE HAVE NOW BEEN NEUTERED!

GREAT QUESTION OMMMM..........THAT EVERY AMERICAN AND EVERY DEMOCRAT SHOULD BE ASKING..they either think we are dumb as shit..or they know they can shit on us and have no accountability!!

then today FEINGOLD put forward censure??????/

will someone please tell me where Censure is in our constitution for our executive branch breaking the laws of this land ??

it doesn't exist..but in 6 places our constitution discusses Impeachment..not censure..impeachment!!!!..

this is just more lies and distortions and bullshit ...abdication of their responsibility to their oath of office and oath to defend and protect the constitution!

FLY

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

41. Excellent post!!! Thank you!!!! When Feingold was asking a couple of weeks ago

people's thoughts on Censure. I told him No to Censure and Yes to Impeachment! He's asking again. I received an email today. Tomorrow I'll let him know exactly how I think, again! I love Russ but this is effite.

[flyarm]

11. oh and this needs to be K&R!!! thanks OMMMM!!

[in_cog_ni_to]

15. You pegged it, OSO! It was a huge farce. A nice little act for the people who bothered to pay

attention.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

52. It's quite depressing that so few did actually pay attention. Even here at

DU. I even had a DUer on another thread say that there wasn't a House bill! I had to show him/her the links.

And now there is a war party after the Blue Dogs that voted for the Senate bill (yes they are Traitors) and yet if there was no bill presented (and there was no reason why it should have been) then their point would be moot. We have the frigging majority and our leaders are supposed to control Our Agenda not the Shrub's.
:shrug:

[fooj]

16. Off to the GREATEST with ye...

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. Thanks fooj!!!!!

:hi: :hug:

[Hydra]

18. Keep banging the pots and pans!

people need to hear EXACTLY what happened.

The apologists are are laying low right now- the most I hear is "well, it IS a blunder, but they're all we got!" If that's the case, we are in DEEP ****.

Those people are wisely keeping silent right now, hoping that this will blow over, and that it will be business as usual by wednesday. PROVE THEM WRONG!!!!

Like everything else we been sold out on, this is just the beginning of our troubles. Don't let this issue be forgotten!

[KoKo]

19. K&R

[rodeodance]

20. So, Lets get busy and all write to Nancy to EXPLAIN!

[dkofos]

22. Someone from "Piss Poor Pelosi's" district needs to camp out at her

office until they get an answer. Straight from the horses mouth.

[VP505]

25. Something that

occurred to about this FISA update to include Email. I get spam Email from all over the world, I guess those foreign originated Emails could be used as an excuse to spy on me, that's if some of the blunt Email I regularly send my Washington Reps or the highly critical of the Admin posts on blogs hasn't already triggered surveillance.

[Hydra]

32. You're forgetting

Gonzo is in charge of this.

"We don't need excuses- suspicion is perfectly fine."

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

35. There are millions of eBay phishing emails sent to Bay members from overseas, they are going

to get bogged down. lol!

[truedelphi]

36. If everyone is so mad about this maybe it is time to consider

She whose name we must not mention but who is now an announced candidate against Pelosi.

[Bumblebee]

39. I don't want Pelosi ousted as a congresswoman; just maybe as the Speaker

There is a difference. Until Saturday I did not want her to be ousted as the Speaker either. I actually like her so it's painful.

[B Calm]

45. She should step down and allow a real leader to be speaker. We

need someone to corral all the republican lites!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

50. It seems to go far deeper than that. It had nothing to do with her corralling

them in. There was NO Need to present the bill in either the Senate or Congress in the first place. Then the way they placed the House bill up, knowing it would fail is highly suspect. Then add to that fact, that once the Senate passed its bill, the Senate went into Summer Recess. They did not wait around to see if the House would pass the Senate bill or not. If the House didn't pass that bill, the Senate and House would go into conference. This was not meant to happen. It appears that it was all "preordained".

[creeksneakers2]

38. My guess

Maybe the bill they were voting on wasn't passed by a committee first. I think voting on a bill like that would require a suspension of the rules.

I read an E-mail Pelosi sent to Conyers last night. In it, Pelosi said Conyers,understandably hadn't moved any bill on the issue because Bush refused to provide the committee with enough information on the wiretap program to know what the legislation would do. Bush probably said the information was classified, etc.

[Junkdrawer]

47. ...and Bush's bill was passed by a committee????

:shrug:

[creeksneakers2]

51. Bck about 10 posts I asked the same question

I don't understand how Bush's bill got to the Senate floor or how the Senate bill made it to the House floor. I just have a guess on why the Democratic version in the House might have needed 2/3rds.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

49. If that were the case, don't you think they would have unlimited debate on the floor

on that bill? That didn't happen. The debate was 20 minutes for each side. You saw the definition of suspension of the rules and it is usually for uncontroversial legislation.

Bottom line is though, there is no reason on this planet that they had to cave into Shrub's demands and give him an Amendment to FISA.

[farmboxer]

40. Repubs got away with a coup, they learned that they can always

control Dems anyway they want. Dems are extremely afraid of Bush and I mean extremely afraid. Very few stand up to Bush and his pals. Notice that the ones who really stand up are not the ones who stand any chance of winning the election? There is a reason for such.

Read what Kevin Trudeau has to say.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

48. And why does a pResident with his poll numbers in the dumper instill so much fear?

Do you have a link for Kevin Trudeau?

[KoKo]

54. The Harpers article at the link explains it. The dems are salivating at the thought this power

coming to them....so they will DO NOTHING... The Harpers piece is chilling. And from what we can see ...it will be true..."The Boot is Descending" is the title of the article. :scared:


http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/08/hbc-90000742

[TwilightGardener]

55. Thanks for the article--very chilling indeed.