Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Al Gore Calls For Civil Disobedience

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 08:45 PM
Original message
Al Gore Calls For Civil Disobedience
http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/8/16/62545/5027

Al Gore calls for civil disobedience
Posted by Glenn Hurowitz at 12:44 PM on 16 Aug 2007

From The New York Times's Nicholas Kristof ($ub req'd):

I ran into Al Gore at a climate/energy conference this month, and he vibrates with passion about this issue -- recognizing that we should confront mortal threats even when they don't emanate from Al Qaeda.

"We are now treating the Earth's atmosphere as an open sewer," he said, and (perhaps because my teenage son was beside me) he encouraged young people to engage in peaceful protests to block major new carbon sources.

"I can't understand why there aren't rings of young people blocking bulldozers," Mr. Gore said, "and preventing them from constructing coal-fired power plants."
Say it, Al! But it's not just young people who need to do it -- everyone needs to join in, starting with you. Shutting down coal plants, blockading palm-oil importers like Imperium Renewables and other rainforest destroyers, and stopping work at oil refineries could move the climate debate beyond just personal action and put the spotlight squarely on the big polluters who are the real culprits behind the problem.

This could be Al Gore's Gandhi moment (especially appropriate for a Nobel Peace Prize nominee). It would be great if you (in conjunction with say, Greenpeace, Rainforest Action Network, and other civil disobedience-oriented environmental groups) announced a day of civil disobedience to confront polluters -- and were the first one to get arrested. You'll find thousands of people, myself included, to back you up.

If you're interested in being one of those people, click here to send Al Gore a fax letting him know you're ready to participate in civil disobedience on behalf of the planet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, say it, Al... but your question as to why young people aren't forming rings around bulldozers is exactly what you wrote about in The Assault On Reason... the politics of fear. People feel cowed in this country and with the Patriot Act and Military Commissions Act still in place that this Congress has still done nothing to repeal, I really cannot say I totally blame them. But I think it goes beyond that as many people still aren't aware of the true urgency of this crisis yet because of the lies of the media and the lobby you even eluded to that is spending millions of dollars in a campaign to discredit the science and cause doubt in peoples' minds about its existence and the causes of it.

And believe it or not, not all Americans have even seen An Inconvenient Truth yet, or read the book, or know the science around global warming. They are not going to protest something they do not understand and something they do not see as an imminent threat to their own lifestyles. Comfort and convenience hold huge sway in this country regarding peoples' decisions.

And realistically, they will question just how we should go about doing this in a country where it is more and more difficult to stand up for what you believe in. And they will question why they even need to do so if there is a Congress that is supposed to be doing the right thing in making sure these coal fired plants are not now built unless they have sequestration mechanisms attached to them as voting in this country is supposed to be how our voices are heard.

Of course, I also believe a big reason why is because people and many of them young people are too distracted and yes, spoiled to care about this planet. Technology and the Internet are wonderful things, but they can also be distractions with video games and other ways of keeping them entertained without giving them the knowledge they need to even begin to care about this catastrophe, and it even goes to the lack of civics education in our schools where children are not taught about this Constitution, past sacrifices made to preserve it, and what Democracy entails if it is to thrive. This is not the country of Thomas Jefferson any longer, unfortunately, and that is a reality we must deal with.

And then of course, we have the groups that have done nothing on the Internet but brainwash people into thinking they need not do anything because you are going to fly down in your superman cape and save us all, so why should they feel compelled to do anything if they believe you are going to save them? That is why I believe that mindset and that kind of rhetoric is not any more helpful to this cause now than those actively working against you on the other side to discredit your words, because it has politicized it and caused a partisan rift that also impedes success.

You stated in an interview just recently that people are becoming more environmentally aware but that we aren't close yet to where we need to be...Well, to me these are just some of the reasons why.

I can only hope that the three year blitz planned through The Alliance For Climate Protection will move those who are too complacent, lazy, distracted, brainwashed, afraid, ignorant of this topic, or just tying this into a partsan political agenda. But as you stated it will take more work on the part of those of us who are awake to awaken others.

Frankly, I think boycotts and hitting them in their wallets is a great form of civil disobedience that can also be very effective and if successful can lead to other forms of standing up ... however, to boycott gas is not now even feasible as for many of us there is no other option. So perhaps when the people out here who are poor and who cannot afford other options that are either not available to them now or out of their reach financially get the feeling that business and govenment is behind them on this, perhaps then they will demand change. I think it works both ways.

I would gladly join you on a picket line Mr. Gore to stop a bulldozer from laying foundation to a carbon spewing coal plant if I thought it would actually stop it from being built, but infortunately, I don't think it would stop it, and therein lies the biggest part of this problem. MONEY RULES.

As the Times article excerpt (which was all I could read since I don't subscribe to Times Select) stated, this could well be your Gandhi moment, but it could also be as well for many of us. However, that fear not only of speaking out but of change is a powerful force, Mr. Gore, and as you also stated in your book is the enemy of reason.

We then need to ovecome that fear first, and in my view that cannot be done unless more people in this country are armed with truth. Your movie should then be available to anyone to download anywhere in the world. People need to set up groups that coordinate boycotts against these companies that last for more than one day. And to me the crux of all of this is teaching our children about civics and citizenship. You cannot expect protest in any form without a good foundation being laid first. So while I believe many peoeple are not doing all they could be doing now, I also believe that they cannot be entirely held to blame when the system that brought this on is continually allowed to hold sway over their lives by those who do have the power to change it. Just my two cents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. Direct action sure
what we need are strikes, things like that, but I doubt it will happen,

Sorry... not until people are directly hurting
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Sad but true
People won't see a need to do it until they have to row to work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lint Head Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. People are hurting right now.
8 people have died in Tennessee in the last 3 days from the heat. 104 in Nashville. :dem:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. yes they are...
Which begs the question, how bad does it have to get?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Ice Caps in Greenland
melting and the coastal cities flooding?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #36
43. Unfortunately for some, yes... so a message to them...
Their towns would have to go under water first... so to them including the Freepers who lurk here ( if you pardon me) I will say,

WAKE UP!!! The Arctic is melting faster than anticipated in the worst scientific scenarios and models and that means that the mirror of this planet is not reflecting the amount of sun it once did, which means more heat is absorbed in our oceans causing more melting, rising seas, and the disruption of the ocean conveyor belt that regulates climate...it is fragile and we are causing it to break down which means OUR sustainability and that of other species on this planet is in jeopardy. And that could be coming to a coastline near you in the next couple of decades (which is really not that far away) if we don't start looking past our political biases to do something now. And it isn't just about us but about our children. Please, read, go beyond the soundbites, and then take action. Anything you can do no matter how small is better than nothing at all.

:rant:

Thank you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #36
56. By then, it's irreversible
And the damage is already done, with more on the way and unstoppable.

Bake
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. Exactly, which is why this can't wait
And honestly, I already believe we have reached a tipping point regarding glacial melt in areas of the world such as Asia and Africa, but we still have time to save what is left and reverse the damage done enough to give out children a future. It was reported last week that deforrestation in the Amazon has gone down, and that is entirely because of human efforts as well. Proof that we can do this if we work together and take a moral stand. This truly is the greatest moral challenge we have ever faced which is why still seeing people in this country debating whether or not humans are the cause as it continues to worsen is absolutely ludicrous.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. People are not making the connection
that is part of the problem

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #8
50. Absolutely,,,
We need climate scientists to speak up as a group now. They must not allow this regime to silence them any longer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. 109 at 2:30 pm today in Nashville. We've become the new Death Valley w/humidity!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
51. Do you have water?
Just asking because it concerns me in light of the drought covering the swath of this country from Alabama to Montana.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
64. Yes, we have water, not like the desert in that respect. But
in our area just west of Nashville, we have not had any rain in @ 4 weeks. The large creeks here that supply our water are VERY low & the water is tasting bad. We are not expected to get rain again for @ another week. This is getting serious. Last night it was still 90 degrees at 11:00 pm at my house, & I live in a very rural area of farms, not in the metro area where the asphalt & buildings hold the heat.
This is extremely bizarre weather for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #64
69. I asked because I read about a community in Tennessee...
Edited on Sat Aug-18-07 11:14 AM by RestoreGore
That is not hooked up to the municipal supply and has to deal with the exact same water you described because the funds are being held back from connecting them to the municipal source (you can read about it at the link to my blog in my signature.) I can't even imagine what they are then going through in that kind of heat. Here in NJ we have been having very erratic weather patterns... hot for a day or two, then cool... then hot again... then deluges with areas not usually prone to flooding, flooding now. Bizarre is a good word to describe it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #69
72. No, we do not fall in that category. We do have municipal water.
Our well went dry about 4 years ago when a rock quarry moved into the county next to us @ 1.5 miles away "as the crow flys". Luckily "city" water had just been run down our road @ 2 years prior to that & we had purchased a tap, but were still using our well water which was much better tasting. We then HAD to use the municipal water.

The municipal water comes out of a large creek that is just down the road from our house. Because of this recent drought, the level of the creek is way down. Weeds & grass are now growing in the middle of that creek in some areas. The largest town in our county "merged" w/our small water co. a couple of years ago, & now that creek is supplying almost all of the water needs of our county (pop. 50,000) + some of a neighboring county. This is becoming a high growth area as people are moving out of the Nashville metro area. So the water demand on that creek will just steadily increase.

We also have some artesian springs on our property and a small creek, both of these have gone dry in this drought. They would feed the "big" creek where the municipal water co. gets its water.

I really like your Water website, I've bookmarked it. My son is a geology/hydrology major in college right now and wrote a research paper on the problems between Israel & the Arab countries based on Israel's control of water in the region. IT is a HUGE issue in the "war" between these countries, but our MSM never seems to mention it when reporting on the unrest in the area. Next to control of the Gaza strip, it is the most important issue in the problems between Israel & their neighbors.

BTW, I teach Web design & your title bar can be fixed by changing the following:
THIS LINE:
<title><center>WATER IS LIFE</center></title>

SHOULD BE CHANGED TO:
<title align="center">WATER IS LIFE</title>;)

:pals:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-19-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Thank you
Edited on Sun Aug-19-07 06:48 PM by RestoreGore
I am impressed that your son is majoring in hydrology... water issues (especially as they do pertain to war as in the case of the Israelis and Palestinians) are most crucical to our life on Earth and I consider it a very noble undertaking to devote your life to them. And what is happening in your area is happening in many places particularly on the Southwest of the U.S. Conservation is key especially now with climate change making that even more difficult. I have always held water as the most important component environmentally and if I had to do it over again I too would have studied about it more in college... but I have learned much on my own over the past few years and it is a message that I feel compelled to get out so thank you so much for your comment on my blog and the suggestion on my title. Stay well and hydrated in Tennessee, and thanks again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. It won't happen until people realize that Cheney is more dangerous that Al Qaeda
He's killed thousands times more people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. I have long said that this country needs more protests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Robson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. How can you be on the streets if you are too busy watching "Dancing With the Stars"?
Edited on Thu Aug-16-07 09:31 PM by Robson
MSM has America so dumbed down, uninvolved and apathetic that the government could take away all our rights and most Americans would be quite content as long as their fat ass was in the easy chair, they had their junk food munchies and their favorite reality show.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
52. it isn't called the boob tube for nothing
And the MSM in this country is for certain an all too willing participant in this grand deception.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nonviolent noncooperation in sufficiently massive numbers...
...with at least one credible leadership figure is exactly what we must have if we're to get our country back. The sooner we come to this realization the better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Passive Resistance needs a revival
But people have to believe it is worthwhile and I don't think many do anymore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
21. At this point I'd have to agree...
...however, when the pain and suffering meter starts climbing into the red for these folks I believe they may change their thinking.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I think so too... only then, it may be too late
It really is quite a conundrum. I posted in my local paper that I was starting a group to discuss this crisis. There were three people at the meeting... me, my son and one other person. Very disappointing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. As Oprah might say, it's because our youngsters prefer having the latest iPods.
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Well, my teen doesn't have one,,,
And he has a very fulfilled life without it ( he actually reads books), and he does care for this planet. And I have talked to other young people who do care as well, so I hope people don't misunderstand me to think I think all young people are complacent. However, I think the culture we now live in is definitely one reason why you don't see young people in rings around bulldozers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
49. To those who think that young people are complacent and ambivalent,
I would like to point to the U of M students who poured onto the scene of the 35W bridge collapse on Minneapolis to help rescue the victims. I'm so proud of the young people who didn't have a second thought about jumping in and helping those in need during that tragedy. I know young people care. They might not have the tools or the training to get organized. :hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #49
53. I agree. It is not complacency on the part of all. They just need to know how to go about it
My son already told me he would be willing to protest a TV station with me to tell them to cover the truth about this climate crisis. I may just think about doing that. There was also a group of boys from my state who stood on a highway outside an EXXON station protesting it and people honked as they went by. I do have faith in our youth, but I also think that there have been forces working against educating them and empowering them to take up the mantle, and fear and distraction have been primary among them. But yes, we have much promise in our youth as well. I sure hope I didn't give the impression that I think all youth are that way, because that was not my intention. My angst is more with the distractions they are tempted with. Actually, Current TV has been a great outlet for youth as well, which is why I support it so much. Thanks for this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. I didn't get the impression from you that you think our youth
is hopeless, in fact I thought quite the opposite. I think your teen sounds like a great kid. I was just pointing out that character shines in a time of crisis, and the young people that lived near our bridge, dropped everything to help. Kids get a pretty bad wrap sometimes, and I was just pointing out that these kids didn't passively glance up from their game boy to see what was going on, they ran to the crisis to lend a hand. If we just gave our kids the education and the tools to organize, they could be an unstoppable force for change. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. I agree wholeheartedly with you on that
And thank you, yes, I am very proud of my son. And there were also many young people who attended Live Earth who were very much into this as well. So again I agree, education and giving them the tools they need to address this is key now... and also supporting them when they step into the fire. That's why I think our schools need to be more on the ball regarding this as well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
11. "...boycotts and hitting them in their wallets..."
I strongly agree. When we read about the draconian weaponry they have, and are working on, for crowd control (which those who protested Vietnam didn't have to worry about), it does cause anyone to question whether putting their lives on the line isn't just spitting in the ocean.

We have a tool we can use right from home. Just stay there, go out as little as possible, spend as little as possible on *anything* you can think of that feeds the beast. It's nonviolent, it's a way to engage in quiet solidarity, and I think it can have much greater impact than we might think.

The general strike that's now being promoted is hopeful!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
15.  I agree
Boycott your credit cards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #15
35. And use local banks, avoiding the big ones. Shop locally, and shop less.
But to have a real impact, there needs to be an organizing entity so we target certain entities, and do it on certain dates, so the impact doesn't get watered down.

Harking back to Cesar Chavez, let us not eat lettuce (or something else) for a time. There is so much we can do without!

Unfortuntely, we don't seem to have the moral fortitude to resist, as others have -- Latinos with Chavez, Indians with Gandhi.

I am heartened by this upcoming general strike, though. That seems to be percolating from the bottom up, and the organizing entity could just be the idea spreading far and wide. Like the Hoola Hoop. "They" have one; I want one, too. "They" did it; let's do it, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #35
44. Yes, the possibilities are endless and it does not incur violence
But as you stated, organization is the key... and I think that will be where Mr. Gore and The Alliance for Climate Protection will come in as the spark.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Yes, indeed. I posted about this a couple of weeks ago.
Edited on Thu Aug-16-07 09:32 PM by southerncrone
We have a tool we can use right from home. Just stay there, go out as little as possible, spend as little as possible on *anything* you can think of that feeds the beast. It's nonviolent, it's a way to engage in quiet solidarity, and I think it can have much greater impact than we might think."

DON'T PARTICIPATE IN THEIR "GAME". THEY rely on us to spend our $ to fuel their lifestyles & businesses. The problem is we are addicted to "consumption" in this country. Over-consumption of food, entertainment, clothing, vehicles, and stuff, in general. The cheap China "stuff" was part of this equation. As you know, addictions are difficult to break. Our nation has been psychologically hijacked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #17
37. There's great stuff about "Their Game" at Solari.com.
And here's an interesting link for advice about personal finances -- Ten Commandants on the subject:

http://biz.yahoo.com/ts/070726/10370223.html?.v=3&.pf=banking-budgeting

Our greatest addiction may be *being American* -- privileged, superior Americans. I want us to look we've had some raising to the rest of the world!

:patriot:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
65. Thanks for the Solari info. I teach personal finance in high school,
so I'm very aware of these 10 commandments. Trouble is, kids may learn in my class the ways to budget & manage $, but what they EXPERIENCE AT HOME is usually quite different. Those family patterns have been imprinted upon them from birth, so it is difficult for them to break those learned habits & apply better financial tools. My hope is that once they move beyond their financially-toxic families, they will remember some of what I have taught them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
13. Good call Al. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
16. This makes me want him for President more, BUT...
I think that this is a message to us that he's not going to run.

:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. Thanks for the post, Restore Gore. Appreciated and kickrecced
Always valuable contributions from you.

I do think at least some of the people who want Al as president do so for logical reasons that I may or may not fully agree with, but would NOT characterize as "brainwashed" or Waiting for Superman.
That kind of insult might turn off allies, and that is not a goal worth pursuing.

A really good president in the WH willing to be aggressive on climate change and energy issues, with Gore agitating for change worldwide, could be a powerful combo!

Any ideas to who that might be?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Kucinich!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Kucinich is one, yes. Any others? even grading on a curve?
Edwards?

.
.

Obama?
.
.
.

Bueller?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Perhaps, Edwards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. No. Too early for me
And my reasoning for my wording regarding some groups (which btw, does not at all label all who may want him for president some day as I would too under the right conditions) is that they have done nothing but place the political regarding this crisis above the moral, and I do not agree with it and think it counterproductive to the cause and his work on it. Also, no one human being not even Mr. Gore can solve this crisis alone regardless from where he does it. It must be a collective effort. My wording may be offensive to some regarding certain opinions I have (though honestly, worse has been typed to me and of me) and I'm sorry but I don't know how else to express it. I also believe that unless we get more people in this country into seriously seeing this crisis for what it is soon, anyone who runs regardless of party will not have the momentum to bring about the kind of change on this that is needed now. Which is really the whole point of my critique of some groups who have not made this as important a facet of their support as I believe it should be. Thanks for your response.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. I hear you RestoreGore, and agree. Collective and Individual actions are both needed
I wasn't trying to rag on that at all, just that it stuck out a bit.
We are in this together, and I have seen people go off on you for just disagreeing with their pov.
Not fair at all, but you did defend your position quite well.
Would that dem Congresscritters be so firm. ;)

I understand your POV and agree that there needs to be a push in the presidential race to make these issues more integral.

It is ironic that the closest to Gore on the environment, for the most years is John Kerry.
Timing....And cruel manipulation of the electoral process have robbed us of historical opportunity.

Hard to get up again, but so we must. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
45. Thanks for understanding
I'm really quite nice ;-), but absolutely passionate about this and my views regarding Mr. Gore's new role in seeking justice for this planet that has been so wronged by this political process and for our species. I just get tired of the same rote responses and way of thinking. I believe it is time for a new approach, and I truly believe what he is doing now can start that. It is about our children in the end and doing what is right regardless of where we do it from. Thanks again and yes, we must get up and go on. And so we shall.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. there's plenty of eco-disobedience - Bush admin calls it "eco-terrorism"
and, by "eco-terrorist" they mean to BLUR civil disobedience (tree spiking, tree sitting) with large-scale acts of vandalism/arson.

in our hyperbolic pro-business state, "civil disobedience" can conceivably label you as a terrorist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. Young people expect solutions
and this generation is never going to engage in mindless protests without knowing what it is they are protesting FOR. No coal power plants? Okay. What are we going to convert to and how do we get there without nuclear and coal?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
25. Peacful protests does not equal Civil Disobedience?
Edited on Thu Aug-16-07 09:46 PM by Exiled in America
At least, not necessarily...

Civil Disobedience means breaking the law for a higher purpose of protest, right?

Peaceful protests need not mean that at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Civil disobediance often is peaceful
Look at the movements of Gandhi and Martin Luther King, they certainly both engaged in their fair share of acts of civil disobedience. Civil disobedience has always been a part of peaceful protest movements.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Exiled in America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #30
39. Yes but it involves actual disobedience. I didn't say anything about CD not being peaceful.
I think the operative part of "civil disobedience" is disobeying a civil law.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
60. It's more SEXY and SPECTACULAR to call it "civil disobedience" - truth be damned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. I'm curious, how many here have been arrested for passive resistance?
Edited on Thu Aug-16-07 10:55 PM by Downtown Hound
I have, and I plan to again, maybe several more times. And if at some point I end up getting a little stint in county for it, that's okay with me. No, I'm not criticizing those who haven't. Getting arrested in this day and age is no small thing. You have to worry about your job, your bills, the number of government lists you will be put on, and a whole bunch of other things. I know it ain't easy. I also know I'm not the only one on this board that has ever done so. There are many others, some probably a lot more than me. All I'm saying what it really takes to get any kind of movement going is for people to stop talking about it and just do it. I see so many people talk about taking direct action but they never do it.

At some point, just go ahead. You will survive jail. It's not a fun place, but odds are you won't be there very long, unless you don't do something really outrageous. Make sure all your affairs are in order, that you'll be able to pay your fine, that you won't lose your house, whatever. Do your research beforehand. Don't worry if you have ten people with you or ten thousand. Don't worry about the world hearing your voice right away. People seem to think that the 60's happened overnight. It started with a small group of very determined, very dedicated people. They didn't wait for millions to join them, they just went and did it.

And I can tell you this, getting arrested for protesting the Iraq War is one of the things I'm most proud of in my life. I took a stand. It wasn't a very big stand, in fact it probably didn't amount to very much in the end, but at least I know I tried. And when we look back at this period 30 years from now, and we're either on a path to eliminate global warming or feeling the effects of doing nothing, no matter what the outcome, at least you can look back with a clear conscience and say, "I did my best." You'll either contribute to saving the planet, or you'll go down on the right side. Either way, it's better than doing nothing.

Edited to add, I'm not accusing anyone that doesn't want to be arrested of doing nothing. I know many people here contribute in many ways with their time, money, passion, and hard work. I'm just trying to say, passive resistance is an option that more should consider.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AnotherDreamWeaver Donating Member (917 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. were you arrested at Westlake on December 1, 1999 in Seattle?
I forward this:
File claim in 99 WTO protest lawsuit!

Checkout www.lovinrevolution.org for
pictures, other reports, music and more.
We need to find ~ 175 individuals who were in Seattle during the WTO
protests in 1999.

We won an important lawsuit against the city of Seattle which violated
our rights and these folks need to contact the attorneys by AUGUST 28,
2007 if they want their portion of the settlement $$ (see below to
download claim forms.)

Sooo.... WHO DO YOU KNOW who might have been in Seattle at the WTO
protests in 1999? Please pass this along to them and to others who
might have some connections to those events. (Consider sending to your
lists or specific people, adding info to your blog, website or
announcement lists, and especially, talking to folks.)

Westlake, Dec 1, 1999? Nov 30, 1999: Nov 30 1999:

We're specifically trying to be sure all 175 people who were arrested at
Westlake on December 1, 1999 get this info IMMEDIATELY since they have
only two weeks left to return their claim (due August 28th, 2007.)

We settled with the city of Seattle for $1,000,000 and each person
arrested at that location is entitled to a portion of those funds.
(Hopefully it's clear that ONLY folks arrested at this particular time
and place are part of this suit and eligible to make these claims.)

A jury found that our 4th amendment rights were violated. See press
release about the case:
http://www.witheylaw.com/TLPJ-WTOVerdictNewsRelease.pdf and some news
about the settlement: www.witheylaw.com/WTO%20Trial.htm
and
www.witheylaw.com/news.htm .

The problem is that after nearly 8 years (and not knowing who was
actually arrested there), almost everyone has moved or gotten a new
phone or email. We need to use our networks to reach folks so PLEASE
HELP get this to them by forwarding on to reduce those degrees of
separation.

Again, apologies to folks who may not understand why I'm sending this to
you or who get this multiple times. Mostly I tried to think of people
who might have some connection to the issues, the tactics or the regions
that brought people to Seattle in 1999. The hope is that you will know
how to reach folks that were involved so we can use our networks to
reach these ~175 people.

As an aside, let me note that many of the 175 folks we've already found
are still committed to their activism and are planning to put the funds
they receive BACK INTO their respective MOVEMENTS. Many of us recognize
that though ~175 of us will receive a portion of this settlement, the
victory of this case is a victory for us all. The work happening in the
streets in 1999 is ongoing...and I personally hope to support that work
by funneling my portion of the settlement money into groups still doing
that work. Though these arrests violated our rights, many of us of are
people of relative privilege which is another reason to give
collectively with these funds. That said, most activists I know rarely
have large financial means so this will be a rare opportunity for some
of us to support financially the causes we work so hard on with our
other resources. (My personal view of the money I'll be receiving is
that it isn't really mine...it belongs to all the people (~50,000) who
were in the streets in 1999 opposing the WTO and, even more, to all the
people affected by the WTO's policies. In 1999, I was arrested
(wrongly, the jury decided) speaking out for what I believed in and
trying to create change. In 2007, I hope to see the funds I'll be
getting used to continue that work.)

Thanks and solidarity,
Erica K
Jane WTO #890
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Downtown Hound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #32
38. No, San Francisco 2003
And the D.A. dropped all the charges.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Truth2Tell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
67. Not arrested that day
but tear-gassed pretty good. And changed forever.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
46. Thanks for your courage
The closest I ever came was when I protested in front of my municipal court the day after the USSC handed this country to Bush on a silver platter in 2000. I stood alone in front of the building peacefully with my 'Gore Is My President' sign until a police officer came over and told me I would have to "move on." I told him I wasn't about to do that, and after realizing he meant business as far as taking me in I decided to go home.... and I cried all the way. I suppose I could have let him take me in to make the point, but I felt I already had made it and hadn't planned on it going that far...But I don't have anything against peaceful passive resistance at all, and think it should be considered more as well if people do as you stated in this post. Only in these times one must consider the penalties for doing so may go beyond just a night in the county jail with the fascists running this country now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. kicked and RECOMMENDED. Thankyou Al. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:22 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. Yes, thank you for showing us that we need to break the spell of fear n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-16-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
33. ## PLEASE DONATE TO DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND! ##
==================
GROVELBOT.EXE v4.0
==================



This week is our third quarter 2007 fund drive. Democratic
Underground is a completely independent website. We depend on donations
from our members to cover our costs. Thank you so much for your support.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NuttyFluffers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 03:44 AM
Response to Original message
40. how about the passive resistance of getting off the grid as much as possible?
why take that flight/train/carpool to DC to protest when you can each use that money to get personal wind/solar energy production. why get arrested and pay bail, court bills, and medical costs when you can buy energy conservation devices such as CFBs and insulation. why circle bulldozers and coal plants when you can take that effort and get on the local gov't committees, y'know, the ones that end up doing the civic investing in your town, so instead you can invest in maintenance, conservation, and revitalization on a community scale. that money and effort goes directly into eliminating or reducing need now, not delaying it into the hands of people who don't care about us. that is real people empowerment, not screaming and whining to people who couldn't care less.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Take it to the boardrooms, stockholders' meetings, and state legislatures too
Anyone who owns stock in a company that is not providing sustainable products or services can have influence in what companies do through their votes at annual meetings or their prospectus. Consumers hold GREAT sway if they would only see it. The bottled water industry is now feeling some heat which was why they recently countered with a spread in the NY Times, and they need to have the pressure continue on them until they realize that their contributions to this crisis including the global water crisis will no longer be tolerated by us.

WE DO have the power and I agree with Mr. Gore wholeheartedly that it is time we use it. We need to put the credit cards down, the Iphones down, the Ipods down, and all the distractions keeping us from seeing the truth that is staring us down and say oh no, you don't... this is our planet and we will fight to preserve it.

I am taking it upon myself to seek out corporations that pollute and continue to exacerbate this crisis and to contact them to tell them that their products and services are no longer part of my life nor anyone I know unless they get their act together. And there is another power we have... state legislatures. N.J just passed and Governor Corzine just signed a bill that Mr. Gore attended the signing of the day before Live Earth that calls for an 80% reduction in GHG emissions by 2050. We need organizations in all fifty states to continue to exert pressure upon their state legislatures to do the same in concert with boycotts and in finding the strength to not buy their products unless they do right by this planet. If Washington DC won't do it then we sure as hell can show them we have the power to do it to show them that we aren't going to continue to be slaves to their destructive ways... although, doing that peacefully from a picket line is something I also have no problem with... standing in rings around media conglomerate executive offices to start until THEY TELL THE TRUTH is definitely something I could agree to.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
47. There are young people taking action too:
Edited on Fri Aug-17-07 09:03 AM by RestoreGore
http://itsgettinghotinhere.org/2007/08/16/did-al-gore-just-tell-you-off/

And Al Gore is right on the money. For every social issue in the past we have had a vocal presence regarding passive resisitance. The climate movement is now more than overdue. The comments here are very interesting about mobilizing students.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
48. Arctic Sea Ice To Hit Record Lows In September
http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/43756/story.htm

And when the boom falls, how many people will come out with, "I had no idea it was this bad." So my question is: With all of the talk and exposure this has been getting, primarily due to An Inconvenient Truth and Live Earth, is there a time when that will be a valid excuse to explain away the responsibility to now do something about this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. Crossposted here:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
59. When's the last time that Mr. Gore was arrested and jailed? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. You're the victim of a false headline. Gore DID NOT call for breaking the law...
... Which is directly entailed by the phrase "civil disobedience."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. He didn't call for that
My interpretation of this was that he was calling for peaceful protest in the name of our survival because it is that serious to do it. That doesn't always entail arrest and jailing, and in my view "civil disobedience" includes much more than that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
62. But when the Neonazicons denounce them as "ecoterrorists" so many posters climb on indignantly.
So quick to cower to the taboo against violence when it supports the empowered who rule by violence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
66. That's My President
:woohoo:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Harper_is_Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-17-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. What will you be doing in service of your President? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #68
71. As usual, silence to that question
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-18-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
70. civil disobedience is our RIGHT mr. kristoff......aka fuckhead
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 02nd 2024, 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC